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2019 Lakers Free Agency/Trade Discussion


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#21 Massacre

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 11:39 AM

That’s still operating under the assumption Ingram can land anything better, at this point he’s been more consistent at playing poorly than playing well. In fact even when his stats look okay most of the time I’m shocked to see them. It’s always a “when did he get 18 points I didn’t even notice” vs kuzma or lonzos random games where I can tell they’re playing well. That’s never a good sign

It’s not an overreaction. Vucevic is an expiring who’s playing infinitely better than Ingram, is young enough that he could be worth resigning if we sign another star

Lebron, vucevic, kuzma, ball and another max free agent has a better chance of winning next season than if you replaced vucevic with Ingram

I don’t trust Ingram’s development whatsoever anymore. He’s taken a clear step backwards, and he’s no longer showing any signs of life. He’s had one game in 40 games that people can honestly say he showed signs of life

How can anyone say that’s development? One game? Kuzma has a month on top of several games scattered throughout

I’ve watched every game but one this season and I can honestly say stats both offensively and defensively aren’t telling the full story with Ingram. He’s a non factor most games, has some of the emptiest points I’ve seen, his free throws are abysmal and his defense is overrated

At this point he’s a throw in in a deal for a star. He’s Javaris cittenton in the pau gasol deal he’s not the centerpiece

I’d venture to say his value is likely at the same point as josh Hart’s now

Anyone who takes him on next year is going to have to pay him or let him walk, who’s willing to do that based on his progression trend right now? So why would anyone offer anything of value?


I think the coaching staff has to go before Ingram when you factor in the way he’s been misused throughout his tenure here. Can easily see a competent staff recognizing his strengths and putting him in good spots to use them. At this point, I don’t know if that will be here.

Luke keeps forcing this PG thing on him. We have more less been using Ingram as though he’s a duplicate of LeBron. He’s not that player. It’s like asking Klay Thompson to initiate your offense. We can say good players shine regardless, but this franchise has clearly been lacking in the player development department for quite some time. I mean, for as much as De’Aaron Fox improves individually, he was one of the worst players in the league last season and we could argue he’s not a fringe All-Star this year if Joerger doesn’t recognize the Kings strengths and completely revamp the offense from dead last in pace to top 5.

I don’t think anyone in the org is free of blame at this point. Coaching staff hasn’t done a great job, players aren’t competing, which should be done regardless of what I mentioned above, Magic and Rob probably should’ve brought back Lopez in some capacity when you factor in how this team needs a shooter and how critical it was to Ingram’s success last season to have a popping big. Dude wanted to come back to and was surprised LA didn’t want him. Oh well.

According to Windhorst today, Magic wants a chance to convince KD or Kawhi this summer so any big trade isn’t happening til he gets that opportunity. Either way, I don’t know how most of this roster will be here next season. This was an audition year for not only the young guys, but Luke and his staff.

I wonder if coach Bud would’ve taken this job if we fired Luke over the summer. Sheesh.

#22 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 12:29 PM

I think the coaching staff has to go before Ingram when you factor in the way he’s been misused throughout his tenure here. Can easily see a competent staff recognizing his strengths and putting him in good spots to use them. At this point, I don’t know if that will be here.

Luke keeps forcing this PG thing on him. We have more less been using Ingram as though he’s a duplicate of LeBron. He’s not that player. It’s like asking Klay Thompson to initiate your offense. We can say good players shine regardless, but this franchise has clearly been lacking in the player development department for quite some time. I mean, for as much as De’Aaron Fox improves individually, he was one of the worst players in the league last season and we could argue he’s not a fringe All-Star this year if Joerger doesn’t recognize the Kings strengths and completely revamp the offense from dead last in pace to top 5.

I don’t think anyone in the org is free of blame at this point. Coaching staff hasn’t done a great job, players aren’t competing, which should be done regardless of what I mentioned above, Magic and Rob probably should’ve brought back Lopez in some capacity when you factor in how this team needs a shooter and how critical it was to Ingram’s success last season to have a popping big. Dude wanted to come back to and was surprised LA didn’t want him. Oh well.

According to Windhorst today, Magic wants a chance to convince KD or Kawhi this summer so any big trade isn’t happening til he gets that opportunity. Either way, I don’t know how most of this roster will be here next season. This was an audition year for not only the young guys, but Luke and his staff.

I wonder if coach Bud would’ve taken this job if we fired Luke over the summer. Sheesh.


Well in that respect I don’t think Ingram for vucevic changes that. Not to mention if we sign either of those guys Ingram is gone anyways

So if that’s the case, and we are to sign either of those guys would you rather have a 28 year old vucevic who likely is a perfect fit next to Lebron and KD/Leonard?

I think so.

And vucevic helps us this year, I’m not gonna sit here and say like is the guy, but my point on that is talented players play well regardless of the coach. It’s just how it works

Giannis has played high level basketball no matter who’s coaching him. Sure a good coach can help a player improve but a good coach is not going to suddenly make Ingram into a hugely impactful player. He’d be impacting already if that was the case. A bad coach cannot make a talented player unimpactful just as a good coach can’t make an unimpactful player impactful

Kuzma has scored in spite of bad offensive sets, off the ball and on it. As consistently as I’d like? No but he’s moreso someone I’d say I have more faith in a good coach pulling more out of

He’s already showing signs of major impact. Ingram has shown little to none and no coach is going to salvage that
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#23 GCMD

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 05:49 PM

The front office needs to address this coaching staff before the players.  Watching the first 3 qtrs the offense is terrible.  Also, not resigning Brook is rearing it's ugly head.  Even I underrated his impact on the offense.  Javale has only been effective when Lebron has played but then again, most roll and catch bigs are.  He got Mozgov 64M. 

 

Can't expect Luke to make lemonade with turnips.

 

 

I was worried we'd be put in this exact situation and Ingram would not look like the player people claimed he would be.  It's done...moving on.

 

Now, we have to make a move that makes sense for the Lakers.  Continuing the youth development doesn't make sense to me.  Give me a sure fire Franchise player, sure...I'm willing to wait.  Not seeing that.



#24 GCMD

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 05:52 PM

Well in that respect I don’t think Ingram for vucevic changes that. Not to mention if we sign either of those guys Ingram is gone anyways

So if that’s the case, and we are to sign either of those guys would you rather have a 28 year old vucevic who likely is a perfect fit next to Lebron and KD/Leonard?

I think so.

And vucevic helps us this year, I’m not gonna sit here and say like is the guy, but my point on that is talented players play well regardless of the coach. It’s just how it works

Giannis has played high level basketball no matter who’s coaching him. Sure a good coach can help a player improve but a good coach is not going to suddenly make Ingram into a hugely impactful player. He’d be impacting already if that was the case. A bad coach cannot make a talented player unimpactful just as a good coach can’t make an unimpactful player impactful

Kuzma has scored in spite of bad offensive sets, off the ball and on it. As consistently as I’d like? No but he’s moreso someone I’d say I have more faith in a good coach pulling more out of

He’s already showing signs of major impact. Ingram has shown little to none and no coach is going to salvage that

 

 

Lonzo is a keeper.

Kuzma is a keeper.

 

That's it outside of the obvious (LeBron) and underpaid (McGee/Chandler).

 

We could build around those 5.  Offer a combination of the others to build this team right.



#25 Tensai

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 07:20 PM

After 4 years of run, we will likely have to hit the reset button rosterwise. If I'm Magic, I wouldn't worry too much about what would happen after that or if we can get a successor. Nor I would worry about if we could get into AD sweepstakes. We need to treasure the good things we have: Ball, Kuzma and Hart. These three are solid and can be integrated into team without much of a problem.

 

This is the line of thinking that will give us the peace of mind to trade Ingram now and bring in players to compete this season and afterwards.


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#26 GCMD

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 08:08 PM

2019-2020 is Ingram's last year before he becomes an Restricted Free Agent and is due a salary hike.  If we want to move him, best to move him at or before the trade deadline this year.

 

I don't expect we can use Ingram as a centerpiece for a major star now.  Missed opportunity but whatevs.  Get what we can and move on.


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#27 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 09:23 PM

2019-2020 is Ingram's last year before he becomes an Restricted Free Agent and is due a salary hike. If we want to move him, best to move him at or before the trade deadline this year.

I don't expect we can use Ingram as a centerpiece for a major star now. Missed opportunity but whatevs. Get what we can and move on.

I’d try to get vucevic as japago suggested and ideally Terrence Ross. Both are shooters and reliable ones at that. Instantly move the needle, both are expirings. Magic probably happy to get a prospect like Ingram, and move from there and I don’t think they have any plans to resign either of those two tbh

We would obviously need to add more contracts but that’s the path I’d like to go down personally. Think it makes us better

Vucevic/ McGee
Kuzma/ Beasley
Lebron/ Hart
Ross/ kcp
Ball/ rondo

I think that team is much more balanced

Edited by last stand 2.0, January 14, 2019 - 09:23 PM.

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#28 Jackson

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 09:32 PM

Lonzo is a keeper.

Kuzma is a keeper.

 

That's it outside of the obvious (LeBron) and underpaid (McGee/Chandler).

 

We could build around those 5.  Offer a combination of the others to build this team right.

For a person that chides Ingram supporters because they're supporting a player who is not producing, it's hypocritical to preach that Lonzo is a keeper. He's no better than Ingram.



#29 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 09:59 PM

For a person that chides Ingram supporters because they're supporting a player who is not producing, it's hypocritical to preach that Lonzo is a keeper. He's no better than Ingram.


I’m on the fence with lonzo. He’s definitely better than Ingram at least defensively, and offensively I’d say when both do their thing I see more from lonzo

I also see lonzo do his thing more often

Both have struggled though in bulk
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#30 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted January 14, 2019 - 10:08 PM

#Lakers are one of the teams that have expressed interest. https://t.co/rVBTcTC1lh

Huh?

#31 KidRN

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 02:47 AM

Lonzo isnt better than Ingram but his play style, although he has obvious issues, isn't as big of a "fit" problem than Ingram's. Randle was probably better than both of them but he wouldn't excel on this team. Ingram has the same issue. Having Bron here puts a spotlight on Ingram's lack of fit within the offense. If an offense is centered around Ingram, the team would suck, but he'd likely be viewed differently by a lot of fans.

#32 LACAS

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 10:05 AM

DSJ available... interesting. 



#33 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 10:19 AM

What’s going on with him? Are the Mavericks just not playing around and waiting for development

I have a feeling there’s concern about fit with doncic tbh and we all know doncic is the guy anyone would side with and choose

Would the Mavericks take Ingram lol? I’d trade Ingram for Dennis Smith in a heart beat
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#34 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 10:33 AM

Actually nah I wouldn’t lol
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#35 Jackson

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 11:56 AM

Pass on DSJ. Same [expletive], different toilet.



#36 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 12:04 PM

Bro the half court offense is bad.  Everyone that has in depth knowledge on offenses watching them has given their assessment about how bad the offense is.  Something's gotta give though.  Im pretty much done watching until something changes. 

 

Can't expect Luke to make lemonade with turnips.

 

 

I was worried we'd be put in this exact situation and Ingram would not look like the player people claimed he would be.  It's done...moving on.

 

Now, we have to make a move that makes sense for the Lakers.  Continuing the youth development doesn't make sense to me.  Give me a sure fire Franchise player, sure...I'm willing to wait.  Not seeing that.


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#37 Massacre

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 03:17 PM

Vucevic is growing on me. Not for Ingram, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him here. His value right now is probably a decent expiring (KCP) and a 1st or similar asset. I’m convinced he would eat on this team and alongside LeBron after watching how Zu and Javale thrived.

I think the Lakers need to try to replicate the floor spacing they had with Brook last season. McGee has been solid, but he’s regressed and it’s very evident without LeBron in there. LeBron typically does well with players of McGee’s skill set who offer that vertical spacing (McGee was the first player signed after LeBron, not a coincidence), but Vuc offers a much needed different dimension and he would instantly be the best shooter on this team.

I don’t think the defense suffers that much considering the Lakers haven’t been switching and McGee has been getting torched by guards and bigs anyways. If the Lakers scheme on a game to game basis and adjust when they’re getting torched, I’m not super worried.

All that said, I don’t think Magic makes any move that requires any asset of value unless it’s a big name. They probably just ride this out, but it’s clear that something needs to happen, and I don’t necessarily think a trade is necessary yet.

Edited by Massacre, January 15, 2019 - 03:19 PM.


#38 Massacre

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 03:20 PM

Bro the half court offense is bad. Everyone that has in depth knowledge on offenses watching them has given their assessment about how bad the offense is. Something's gotta give though. Im pretty much done watching until something changes.


It’s amazing how the only thing some people are picking up is “see, we told you about Ingram.” It’s far, far beyond that, and if you can’t recognize it you’re not watching the games. No other way to put it.

#39 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 04:23 PM

It’s amazing how the only thing some people are picking up is “see, we told you about Ingram.” It’s far, far beyond that, and if you can’t recognize it you’re not watching the games. No other way to put it.


Well here’s the thing

Ingram can be mistake draft pick and the offense can suck

Kuzma averaged 22ppg in December and was pretty damn consistent. And still kuzma shows flashes constantly despite the offense and I keep seeing justifications for this when in reality kuzma is probably just the more talented player with higher potential. I really think it’s that simple

It’s as I’ve said many times. A legitimately talented player does not need a system to be effective. A great system can accentuate their already present gifts but a system will not make a mediocre talent a sudden all star

Giannis showed signs regardless of coach, as did harden, players with legit star potential show signs no matter the situation

A player with REAL potential does not have one legitimately impactful game in 40 games and a slight sprinkling of empty stats games regardless of the coach

Look at Dennis Smith jr. why is he struggling with a legit coach but luka isn’t?

He had a solid rookie year? It’s because maybe he doesn’t have the potential and Dallas is maybe smartly selling high before he goes in the dumps and nobody wants him

Ingram isn’t playing well, and that’s not all on luke because a player with legitimate potential would find a way to be effective. Nobody argued Kobe’s potential when he had del Harris coaching him, benching him, seemed to show the spark was there regardless

I think blaming Luke for Ingram is a cop out for Ingram. Facts are he’s a ghost and if he really needs a specific system to be consistently effective then he’s not worth the trouble because quite frankly he hasn’t remotely earned that.
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#40 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 15, 2019 - 04:24 PM

And I’ve watched every single game this year but one, 40+ games of Ingram’s disappearing act
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