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Shaq says Lakers 00 era would 'easily beat' Warriors

Shaq Lakers Warriors Shaquille O´Neal

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#1 ArabicMamba

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 12:55 AM

Hall of Fame center Shaquille O'Neal said his Los Angeles Lakers team that won three consecutive titles in the early 2000s would "easily beat" the modern-era Golden State Warriors, a team trying to become the first to three-peat since the Lakers did so from 2000-02.

"I think we'd easily win," O'Neal told USA TODAY Sports by phone when asked which team was better. "Other people might feel different, they (the Warriors) might feel different. But we had one of the best teams of all-time in 2001 when we went 15-1 in the playoffs. We would've gone 16-0 but A.I. (Hall of famer Allen Iverson) went off on us and stepped over (former Laker) Ty Lue." 

That team O'Neal referenced was the 2000-01 Lakers squad that nearly went perfect in the postseason if it weren't for an Iverson-inspired 76ers upset in Game 1 of the Finals. Iverson was MVP that season and scored 48 points before L.A. won the next four to claim the Larry O'Brien trophy.  

 

 

 

So your thoughts on that? I just had a small debate on that last night with a friend who is a warriors bandwagon fan. I would easily agree with Shaq. We had the most dominant center of all time in Shaq, he would just crush Cousins today under the rim or even guys like Durant and Iggy. Plus the game evolved, teams are playing small ball today, so Shaq would just dunk it in their faces.

 

You mix that up with a young 21-22 year old Kobe and thats really lethal. Kid was hungry back then and was evolving at his time in the league back then. Then you have guys like Fisher, Horry, Grant, Harper, guys who bring you experience and veteran leadership but who mostly have the BALLS and the courage to take important shots.

 

All in all, kids nowadays dont know the value that this team had back in the 2000era and the impact they had on the NBA.

 

I would ALL DAY go with the Lakers of 2000!

 

Roster: 

 

2000-01

8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 212 August 23, 1978 us 4   2 Derek Fisher PG 6-1 200 August 9, 1974 us 4 University of Arkansas at Little Rock 40 Greg Foster C 6-11 240 October 3, 1968 us 10 University of California, Los AngelesUniversity of Texas at El Paso 17 Rick Fox SF 6-7 230 July 24, 1969 ca 9 University of North Carolina 3 Devean George SF 6-8 220 August 29, 1977 us 1 Augsburg College 54 Horace Grant PF 6-10 215 July 4, 1965 us 13 Clemson University 4 Ron Harper PG 6-6 185 January 20, 1964 us 14 Miami University 5 Robert Horry PF 6-9 220 August 25, 1970 us 8 University of Alabama 10 Tyronn Lue PG 6-0 175 May 3, 1977 us 2 University of Nebraska 35 Mark Madsen PF 6-9 240 January 28, 1976 us R Stanford University 14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF 6-10 250 April 4, 1979 ua R   34 Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 325 March 6, 1972 us 8 Louisiana State University 12 Mike Penberthy PG 6-3 185 November 29, 1974 us R Master's College 7 Isaiah Rider SG 6-5 215 March 12, 1971 us 7 University of Nevada, Las Vegas 20 Brian Shaw SG 6-6 190 March 22, 1966 us 11 Saint Mary's College of CaliforniaUniversity of California, Santa Ba

 

 

2001-02:

 

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date   Exp College 8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 212 August 23, 1978 us 4   2 Derek Fisher PG 6-1 200 August 9, 1974 us 4 University of Arkansas at Little Rock 40 Greg Foster C 6-11 240 October 3, 1968 us 10 University of California, Los AngelesUniversity of Texas at El Paso 17 Rick Fox SF 6-7 230 July 24, 1969 ca 9 University of North Carolina 3 Devean George SF 6-8 220 August 29, 1977 us 1 Augsburg College 54 Horace Grant PF 6-10 215 July 4, 1965 us 13 Clemson University 4 Ron Harper PG 6-6 185 January 20, 1964 us 14 Miami University 5 Robert Horry PF 6-9 220 August 25, 1970 us 8 University of Alabama 10 Tyronn Lue PG 6-0 175 May 3, 1977 us 2 University of Nebraska 35 Mark Madsen PF 6-9 240 January 28, 1976 us R Stanford University 14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF 6-10 250 April 4, 1979 ua R   34 Shaquille O'Neal C 7-1 325 March 6, 1972 us 8 Louisiana State University 12 Mike Penberthy PG 6-3 185 November 29, 1974 us R Master's College 7 Isaiah Rider SG 6-5 215 March 12, 1971 us 7 University of Nevada, Las Vegas 20 Brian Shaw SG 6-6 190 March 22, 1966 us 11 Saint Mary's College of CaliforniaUniversity of California, Santa Barbara

 


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#2 Aykut Purde

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 01:07 AM

Dude, this is like asking "Who'd win, Trump or Obama?" in a Trump Hotel.


Welcome Bron.

 


#3 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 02:01 AM

I think the 15-1 Kobe-Shaq Lakers was the best team in nba history and they would have beaten all Warriors teams from 2015 to 2018. They had no-one to match up with Shaq and LA had plenty of wing defenders to throw at the Warriors as well.

 

The one team that has the potential to be the greatest team of all time is this current Warriors team because they literally have 5 all-nba caliber players on their roster including a big in Boogie who at his best could make Shaq work a bit. Unfortunately, they’re not looking all that good right now and Boogie might not come back 100%.



#4 4Warner

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 05:49 AM

The 67 win Lakers, on average, attempted 13 Three-pointers a game and made 4 of them every night.

 

The 67 win Warriors, on average, attempted 31 Three-Pointers a game and made 12 every night.

 

 

 

This is how Popovich sees it...

 

Pop honed in: "Now you look at a stat sheet after a game and the first thing you look at is the 3s. If you made 3s and the other team didn't, you win. You don't even look at the rebounds or the turnovers or how much transition D was involved. You don't even care.

 

"These days there's such an emphasis on the 3 because it's proven to be analytically correct."

 

 

Obviously, games would've had to be played in real-time. Which means everything wouldn't have happened exactly as stats foreshadow, but math is math, and 3 is always gonna be more than 2. It's the ultimate game changer...The line was there since 1979, teams just chose to use it sparingly, for various reasons, but now they bring out the big guns every night. And the results have been deadly.

 

 

And the Warriors arent just any 3 point shooting team now... When they were averging 31 attempts a few years ago they led the league in that area or were in the top 2, now they're 18th in 3's attempted and still get up around 31 a night. They likely have the most elite, prolific long distance shooters ever to play together on one roster. 

Fundamental basketball skills like shooting, passing, ball handling, and defense have never been more necessary than they have been as of late. Teams are using more of the court than ever and as a result defenses have to defend further out than ever. It started with the Spurs ironically in 2014, and every championship team since has been a load from behind the arc.

 

 

Shaq was Shaq, but 3 was and is more than 2. As much as I loved the 80's teams and the high quality of play in that era, and have a respect for the years since, I'd say the only teams that will surpass this Warriors group historically is likely a few years down the road yet.


Edited by 4Warner, December 13, 2018 - 05:50 AM.

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#5 noknife

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 07:42 AM

That team was the most dominant team I have seen play basketball in my life. Shaq was just plain unstoppable that season.

#6 Jody Smokes

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 10:20 AM

Debating hypotheticals like this only leads to more bball ignorance being spewed.  


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#7 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 12:41 PM

It really depends on the refs, lakers had defenders at every position, had people who can shoot, and had 2 unguardable players

So while there’s no way of really knowing I doubt the warriors could beat those lakers. I mean Shaq if the refs don’t call ticky tack fouls would average 40+ points a game
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#8 Game

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 01:36 PM

problem the warriors would have is no one could guard shaq.  hell, when there were actual centers in the league no one could guard shaq


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#9 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 02:09 PM

problem the warriors would have is no one could guard shaq. hell, when there were actual centers in the league no one could guard shaq


That and we had wing defenders everywhere including a young kobe who was capable of being one of the best perimeter defenders in basketball

It’d be the worst matchup imaginable
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#10 4Warner

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 03:20 PM

Debating hypotheticals like this only leads to more bball ignorance being spewed.  

 

I agree...This is why I tend to rely on advanced metrics to make most determinations. If you type into a calculator 2 plus 3 it should always come up to 5. Math is never wrong. How we understand the basketball math and how it applies to the game in real time can be debateable, but the math itself can't. Like many former players, Shaq is willingly overlooking all of the math...

 

 

Also the pitfall to hypotheticals like this is that everyone is entitled to opinions, but lots of time we tend toforget there's two types of opinions out here. Informed, and Un-Informed...

 

There are a lot more of the later type, so the un-informed are the majority and have the numbers, but their takes don't hold the same weight as an opinion you can tell is highly informed, even if it's a minority view. Facts matter. And the equivalent to a fact in basketball is a stat. I don't think he cares, but there are no stats that back Shaq's assessment up...



#11 4Warner

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 06:47 PM

The Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook said it would make Steph Curry's Warriors team a 12.5-point favorite over Shaq's 2001 Lakers squad on a neutral court. Let the debate begin.
 
 
Ben Fawkes, ESPN Staff Writer


#12 RobBlake

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 08:44 PM

I agree...This is why I tend to rely on advanced metrics to make most determinations. If you type into a calculator 2 plus 3 it should always come up to 5. Math is never wrong. How we understand the basketball math and how it applies to the game in real time can be debateable, but the math itself can't. Like many former players, Shaq is willingly overlooking all of the math...


Also the pitfall to hypotheticals like this is that everyone is entitled to opinions, but lots of time we tend toforget there's two types of opinions out here. Informed, and Un-Informed...

There are a lot more of the later type, so the un-informed are the majority and have the numbers, but their takes don't hold the same weight as an opinion you can tell is highly informed, even if it's a minority view. Facts matter. And the equivalent to a fact in basketball is a stat. I don't think he cares, but there are no stats that back Shaq's assessment up...

your math doesn’t mean much when you are getting your [expletive] pushed in when you’re playing against an animal. Stats go out the door when it’s game time. Yeah those stats are amassed over a duration o time but it’s not vs the same team for 82 games. Warriors are not even going undefeated in their era and if lebron had a competent second star good chance he takes them to seven. Lebron steam isn’t greater than 01 lakers even with kyrie


Klay Thompson isn’t going off on Kobe Bryant for an entire series. Leornard was taking it to them before their injury and Leonard Ian kobe

Edited by RobBlake, December 13, 2018 - 08:45 PM.

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#13 DanishLakerFan

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Posted December 13, 2018 - 09:44 PM

The 67 win Lakers, on average, attempted 13 Three-pointers a game and made 4 of them every night.

 

The 67 win Warriors, on average, attempted 31 Three-Pointers a game and made 12 every night.

 

 

 

This is how Popovich sees it...

 

Pop honed in: "Now you look at a stat sheet after a game and the first thing you look at is the 3s. If you made 3s and the other team didn't, you win. You don't even look at the rebounds or the turnovers or how much transition D was involved. You don't even care.

 

"These days there's such an emphasis on the 3 because it's proven to be analytically correct."

 

 

Obviously, games would've had to be played in real-time. Which means everything wouldn't have happened exactly as stats foreshadow, but math is math, and 3 is always gonna be more than 2. It's the ultimate game changer...The line was there since 1979, teams just chose to use it sparingly, for various reasons, but now they bring out the big guns every night. And the results have been deadly.

 

 

And the Warriors arent just any 3 point shooting team now... When they were averging 31 attempts a few years ago they led the league in that area or were in the top 2, now they're 18th in 3's attempted and still get up around 31 a night. They likely have the most elite, prolific long distance shooters ever to play together on one roster. 

Fundamental basketball skills like shooting, passing, ball handling, and defense have never been more necessary than they have been as of late. Teams are using more of the court than ever and as a result defenses have to defend further out than ever. It started with the Spurs ironically in 2014, and every championship team since has been a load from behind the arc.

 

 

Shaq was Shaq, but 3 was and is more than 2. As much as I loved the 80's teams and the high quality of play in that era, and have a respect for the years since, I'd say the only teams that will surpass this Warriors group historically is likely a few years down the road yet.

 

I agree that hitting 3s is key to winning basketball games, but Lebron didn't beat the 73-win Warriors by outshooting them.



#14 BORNINLA

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Posted December 14, 2018 - 06:20 AM

Depends on what type of defense they would be allowed to play.  The league during that 15-1 era was still pretty lenient when it came to playing tough defense.  Now, you cant be aggressive at all.  


Edited by BORNINLA, December 14, 2018 - 06:23 AM.


#15 4Warner

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Posted December 14, 2018 - 11:15 AM

your math doesn’t mean much when you are getting your [expletive] pushed in when you’re playing against an animal. Stats go out the door when it’s game time. Yeah those stats are amassed over a duration o time but it’s not vs the same team for 82 games. Warriors are not even going undefeated in their era and if lebron had a competent second star good chance he takes them to seven. Lebron steam isn’t greater than 01 lakers even with kyrie


Klay Thompson isn’t going off on Kobe Bryant for an entire series. Leornard was taking it to them before their injury and Leonard Ian kobe

 

"Your math"  It's not really MY math per se. It's universal. It belongs to all of us. Some of us are just more comfortable with it than others I find. Advanced metrics were created to allow GM's and basketball personnel a better way for quantifying what players and teams were doing. It's also of benefit to fans who want to go a little further than the so called eye test, or taking Skip Bayless' word for it.

 

If you're not an advocate of using stats to analyze basketball, that's fine. But there are a number of people who want to know if there's any factual evidence to their opinions. I'm one of those people. So I've watched the game since the mid 70's and used whatever data I had access to to try and figure out if the way I was seeing it was correct or if I was biased.

 

When we watch a sporting event, there's inevitably a degree of bias that will rear it's head. We don't like a team, or we like a team. We don't like a player or we like a player. We don't like a coach or we like a coach. We don't like a particular city or fan group or we like that group. We'd prefer a team closer to our favorites to win rather than one from an oppoing division or conference. etc..etc...etc... It's always something that the human element has a difficult time rectifying. Math doesn't have that problem. So I tend to trust it more than a humans opinion...

 

None of us are experts but one guy who gets paid to be an expert is Kevin Pelton. He has Shaq's Lakers as the 4th best Los Angeles Laker team in franchise history and the 17th best team ever... http://www.espn.com/...atest-nba-teams

 

I agree that hitting 3s is key to winning basketball games, but Lebron didn't beat the 73-win Warriors by outshooting them.

 

True enough. That series was won for other reasons. Namely injuries. Boguts injury was the catalyst that allowed Clevelands game plan of owning the paint to thrive. Bogut's no star by any means but his absece was crucial. Iguodala was also less than 100% entering and throughout that series, as well as Steph having come back from missing games in the early rounds that year I believe. Draymonds suspension didn't hurt Cleveland. And it all culminated in the upset of a lifetime.

 

Shaq's team wouldn't be the underdog that the Cleveland team was that faced the 73 win juggernaut Warriors, but they'd still be the dogs. And that's assuming both rosters are fully healthy...

 

It's true that hitting more of the 3 ball doesn't equate to guaranteed wins every game, but we're seeing that the overwhelming majority of the time, close to 85% in last years playoffs in fact, that's the case. No other singular stat in basketball history foreshadows the potential of a win more than three pointers made versus your opponent. So it's a major factor that we're seeing, but I'm not sure we're fully appreciating yet... 

 

 

Even just on a basic glance at last nights box score versus Houston, we could deduct that one player hitting more free throws than our entire team , 18-15, was a big issue. They hit 12 more from the stripe than the Lakers overall...But looking at the 3 balls made may tell a more telling story doesn't it? Houston 15 three-pointers made to Los Angeles' 10 made. 5 more 3's. 3 points per goal= 15 points. The margin of victory for Houston? 15... The made 3 pointer is not everything, but it tends to reduce the value of everything else...



#16 RobBlake

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Posted December 14, 2018 - 03:14 PM

I agree of course math is universal. We are talking about real world implications, however that may be reasoned. If we can somehow impute this into a simulation game, then that math will have more credit for knowing what would happen. If the 01 lakers were somehow transported into this era, then the players would work more so on their 3pt shooting, run quicker sets, essentially adapt to the current game. Kobe had a decent three and lets not forget he hit 12 threes in a game himself.. he would more than likely have slightly better three point averages if he grew up into this era. No one would limit shaq and he would have people in foul trouble early and often. Klay thompson is capable of good to great defense, but Kobe has dominated over fiercer defensive players, he's the second greatest two guard of all time.  Curry shrinks in the finals, you can name injuries but I doubt that was the reason for his poor play and never winning a finals mvp. Fisher is just as tenacious as Delladova was, one would argue a dirtier player and fisher was clutch. 

 

I don't really care what some espn writer says as we are privy to the same metrics and data as he is and capable of forming our own opinions.  The 01 lakers would sweep the warriors obviously, but if you wanna contend they would get smoked or beaten handily then... you're smoking crack. 


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#17 4Warner

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Posted December 14, 2018 - 05:41 PM

I agree of course math is universal. We are talking about real world implications, however that may be reasoned. If we can somehow impute this into a simulation game, then that math will have more credit for knowing what would happen. If the 01 lakers were somehow transported into this era, then the players would work more so on their 3pt shooting, run quicker sets, essentially adapt to the current game. Kobe had a decent three and lets not forget he hit 12 threes in a game himself.. he would more than likely have slightly better three point averages if he grew up into this era. No one would limit shaq and he would have people in foul trouble early and often. Klay thompson is capable of good to great defense, but Kobe has dominated over fiercer defensive players, he's the second greatest two guard of all time.  Curry shrinks in the finals, you can name injuries but I doubt that was the reason for his poor play and never winning a finals mvp. Fisher is just as tenacious as Delladova was, one would argue a dirtier player and fisher was clutch. 

 

I don't really care what some espn writer says as we are privy to the same metrics and data as he is and capable of forming our own opinions.  The 01 lakers would sweep the warriors obviously, but if you wanna contend they would get smoked or beaten handily then... you're smoking crack. 

 

Nah Rob, I stick with the Ganja, my man. 

 

 

But if you believe you have the same level of understanding and knowledge of the game that a Kevin Pelton has, then having this entire exchange with you may have been as poor of a decision on my part as smoking that crack you speak of. I'll give you that...

 

 

You present a lot of opinion based takes in the above post. Some I can agree with, others seem to show excessive fanship and I have to take 'em with a grain of salt, so I won't address them directly. But like I always say, everyone is fully entitled to an opinion, regardless of the type. And this is a thread that captures what people opinions are so we came to the right place.

 

 

This is a Laker based Forum, so I would only expect your pro-Laker viewpoint to be shared by quite a few others. That only seems natural to me. The fact that computers and the so-called experts disagree with you is probably irrelevant. You'll always believe what you currently believe and that's just how it is...At least you're not standing alone, right? There's comfort in being part of a group. Nothing wrong with that...

 

But for myself, I don't really care. Group. No group. I go with math backed opinions over conjecture every day of the week. So we'll agree to disagree on this one...







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