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Lonzo vs Fox


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#41 dbtbandit67

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 01:16 PM

Lonzo doen't have it. Dude doesn't have it. But i hope he will. I hope he will try. I am rooting for him.

"Oh, you gotta let Lonzo play, it will hurt his confidence."

Except, that is exactly what we did with him last season. And what happened? What happened? Missing 1/3 of the season at least, uninspired play, not improving his game, and his dad wailing out for most of the year, including making threats, and attempting to force a coaching change mid-season and attempting to blackmail us to draft Liangelo. So we do the right thing and bring on Rondo as both an insurance policy against injury so we still have a point guard and to take duress off of Lonzo, and also a way of letting Lonzo know, if your not gonna cut it, we're moving on.

"Oh, but it's hurting Lonzo's confidence, its hurting Lonzo's confidence, [we should keep playing Lonzo even when he's playing awful because, well, confidence, and well, that's how you build him]"

Bro, we shouldn't make incorrect rotation decisions for the sake of building ANYONE. From here on out we should stop drafting incomplete basketball players that still require seasons and seasons and seasons and seasons before they are playable.

 

And Lonzo's... confidence? Act like a professional. In no other job would a company stand by an underperforming salesmen and continue to give them assignments even though they are continously showing up tardy, absent, have an attitude (or totally checked out and uninterested) in addition to not actually selling.

 

And you know, its not only Lonzo. It's Wiggins. It's Karl Anthony Towns. It's this social media generation. Lonzo has wanted to be a Laker his entire life, guess what cousin, Laker fans are the most passionate fans and most demanding fans, in all of sports, and rightfully so. Those [expletive]ty tanking seasons were unbearable - I have never stood by an organization so bad for so many years in my entire life. Man, in 94 when we had Van Exel and Eddie Jones we were still making playoffs. When Magic attempted his brief ill-fated comeback, [expletive] man, he was still pretty good off the bench as a SF. When Kobe missed playoffs under Rudy T. and felt all that criticism raining down esp. as Shaq was doing well in Miami, he didn't check out, he turned all the negative energy into his jedi powers as a Sith Lord and worked his ass off even harder!

 

I hate saying this, but I think whats happening to Lonzo, to Fultz, is this combination of growing up both overparented and underdisciplined at the same time. I don't like going in on Lonzo anymore, but damn man. I know he's got personal issues which ya'll can Google, and I know he is really bothered by his brother going undrafted; I'm beginning to wonder if Lavar is getting on his ear about taking him to another team where someone will draft his brothers too and if that's effecting his enthusiasm and passion for the game. He looks so checked out. I heard on some podcast that the constant trade rumors are bothering him, and he's now resigned to the possibility that he won't be on the team. Lonzo, a final decision on that hasn't even been made yet, and if you move on to Phoenix or wherever, you might end up having to move again from there, it's part of being in the NBA. Just keep working your butt off and "control what you can control" like Kobe said. Leaking your own injuries again as a way of forcing yourself on the team just hurts your own value as a player overtime cause the league will view you as injury prone.

 

I'm rooting for him, I really am. Because we got Rondo, we can provide relief on his ankle that's possibly bothering him rn. Tbh, it does seem like he's a bit more comfortable on the bench end of games when there isn't so much pressure on him. At least those shots are falling in now. I want him to attack the basket more to keep defenses honest to his passes and for him to improve his offensive arsenal. His defense is great. Keep giving that to us Zo.


Edited by dbtbandit67, November 14, 2018 - 01:23 PM.

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#42 Japago

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 01:32 PM

I've always liked Zo and I still have faith in him. I didn't like Fox, I've never liked those PGs, the scoring type. But come on, lets be honest here, Fox is having a breakout season, averaging 7 assists per game, shooting 3s way better than last season and even looking stronger. Zo is playing worse, those black holes he used to have during games are back and his confidence sometimes is just not there... again. I still think he can become a very good PG, I love his type, the team player PG (like Jason Kidd). But vs Fox, in terms of talent and impact, is not even close anymore. I hate this, but it's the truth ‍♂

 

This is pretty much where I'm at right now. I like Lonzo's all-around game and Fox is in the right situation for him, but you can't deny that Fox is currently the better, more impactful player. Ball isn't even consistent as an all-around performer.

 

On a large scale, it's just another example of another young player showing high level performance with more consistency than any of the Lakers' young players. It's funny how it's always more difficult for the Lakers' top draft picks than others.



#43 KidRN

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 02:30 PM

You're labeling/questioning an individual's drive and hunger on the court solely based upon their personality.

That is not what he did, that is what you guys turned this into. He clearly referenced the guys lack of drive during games. Something that was clear since day 1 and has been discussed on this forum multiple times.

This is why we have long unnecessary arguments on this forum. Initially we were discussing Fox vs Ball. Nobody could form a valid argument for Ball so it was switched to people not understanding basketball, than it was switched to the Celtics for some reason, and now we are talking about Lonzo rapping?

Look at the common theme here! The people that are supposedly defending Lonzo haven't dedended anything that he does on court. Instead we are seeing one sentence of a post attacked over and over again. It's a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with how Lonzo is actually playing.

I asked Jody this and he didnt answer so now I'll ask you. On the offensive side of the ball, what does Lonzo add that makes him more beneficial than an average nba point guard?

Edited by KidRN, November 14, 2018 - 02:31 PM.


#44 BORNINLA

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 03:01 PM

For God’s sake this franchise traded Nick Van Exel, Shaq and Eddie Jones but for some reason a kid who’s got talent but only shows up when he wants to shouldnt be traded.

We havent even mentioned his fragile body.....

Lonzo is talented, but it doesnt matter if he doesnt become a master of his craft. Again, I mention his Rap because he seems to enjoy it, never once did I say it was wrong for him to rap. We all love Chandler , but why? Is he putting up Monster numbers?

Edited by BORNINLA, November 14, 2018 - 03:01 PM.


#45 Jackson

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 03:07 PM

So LA isn't very good at 7-6, meanwhile Boston is 7-6 but they are contenders?  Am I missing something or nah?  

Boston hands down fit the contender bill much more than the Lakers. As the season matures, the Lakers will likely remain near .500 while the Celtics will eventually find their groove.The Lakers look exactly what they are, which is a 7-9th seed vs. the off-season top 3 projections were.



#46 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:48 PM

So we are going to compare Lonzo to one of the greatest to pick up a basketball now?  Kobe when he was rapping wasn't winning championships yet.  You can't equate aggressiveness on the mic to basketball fam.  

 

Im not attached to the players like you believe I just don't believe that after a bad game of a team trying to figure out roles, style and strategy that the first solution is making a trade.  This team NEEDS to gel.  I dont know why this concept is so hard.  It took the Lakers 4 years to get to the Finals and win after Shaq signed.  They had to let Kobe find his way to get to the next level.  They also had to figure out what pieces fit and what didn't.  You can't do that in 13 games.  It may take a full season to figure who and what sticks.  

 

Kobe was also taking it to the rack with no fear and when coming off the bench came out with fire, even if he missed 100 shots. That’s the difference.

Who’s going into Lonzo’s personal desires? I’m just giving you FACTS that he is more aggressive doing a Rap song than playing on the game. I can’t believe you are even trying to dispute this.

Some of you are too attached to these players. Tonight will be more excuses on why Lonzo didnt play the 4th quarter or layed another egg... I hope Im wrong


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#47 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:52 PM

Based on what?  Have you seen Boston play this year or are you just making assumptions because you have sour grapes about the team?  

 

There are people on this forum that pretty much have 0 faith in the team having any success simply b/c they didn't acquire Kawhi Leonard in a trade offer that was reported as not being real.  That kind of negativity about the team doesnt make sense.  

 

Boston has the same issue LA has right now.  A bunch of really good vets trying to mesh with a bunch of really good young talent and roles have not clearly been defined.  These things take time but if you're only experience with a winning team is becoming a fan at the height of Kobe's 2nd wave of winning years you dont understand the process it takes to build a contender.  

 

Only 1 team was put together over an offseason and didnt have any hiccups. That's the 07-08 Celtics and they had to have a lot of [expletive] go their way for that team to come into fruition.  

 

 

 

Boston hands down fit the contender bill much more than the Lakers. As the season matures, the Lakers will likely remain near .500 while the Celtics will eventually find their groove.The Lakers look exactly what they are, which is a 7-9th seed vs. the off-season top 3 projections were.


Edited by Jody Smokes, November 14, 2018 - 05:53 PM.

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#48 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:55 PM

Another element taht leads to this negativity is that some fans have unrealistic expectations for Lebron.  They hear all the Lebron is better than Kobe [expletive] and now wants him to prove it by blasting every team by 20.  Even Kobe didn't do that and the Lakers lost to a LOT of [expletive]ty teams between 08-10 years.  

 

My point is the team is trending up.  If you're watching the games and enjoying them instead of thinking about the goddamn Finals you'd see this. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#49 BORNINLA

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 06:57 PM

I guess Kuzma and Hart “gelling” better than Lonzo.....It’s like Lonzo didnt play with these guys last year so he has to learn their tendencies first before he decides to be an aggressive PG....

#50 BasketballIQ

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 07:04 PM

Lebron is supposed to be the best in the game. He isnt. He hasnt been.

Be better than other stars.

4th quarter has Bron outperformed anyone yet?

#51 noknife

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 10:52 PM

Lebron is supposed to be the best in the game. He isnt. He hasnt been.

Be better than other stars.

4th quarter has Bron outperformed anyone yet?


He is top 5 in the league in points, top 10 in assists. No other player in the league can say that. Also has carried a young Lakers team to a winning record in the western conference with a brutal early season schedule. He is the best in the game and has been for many seasons, this one is no different. Those are just objective stats tho, I’m sure Kobe was better at this point in his career or some other absolutely ridiculous baseless claim.

#52 erfolk

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Posted November 14, 2018 - 11:54 PM

Lebron is supposed to be the best in the game. He isnt. He hasnt been.

Be better than other stars.

4th quarter has Bron outperformed anyone yet?

Why do you keep coming out of nowhere to bash Lebron? We get you dont like him and would rather have Randle. The dude is one of the best players ever and is easily one of the best players in the league. He is on our team and you still hate on him i dont get it.
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#53 Massacre

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 02:18 AM

Why do you keep coming out of nowhere to bash Lebron? We get you dont like him and would rather have Randle. The dude is one of the best players ever and is easily one of the best players in the league. He is on our team and you still hate on him i dont get it.


LeBron is still hands down the best player in the league. He dragged the worst team in the league to the Finals just 5 months ago.

#54 Tensai

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 02:36 AM

Do we have a clear success story for teams drafting one-and-done after one-and-done and succeeding in 2-3 years? The franchise did same thing 4 times in a row and expected a different result, as if it would magically happen. The common denominator for the good apples in recent drafts is that they all stayed 3-4 years in college.

 

I have always known that it would be EXTREMELY difficult for a group of one-and-done to break out at once. First of all, it is unfeasible due to amount of opportunities and failures they need to learn and flourish. Second, no franchise or fanbase have the patience to sit through watching those group of young players try to figure it out. NBA is a competitive sport and there are always alternatives, often giving much simpler solutions.

 

Both Ingram and Ball had a lot of opportunities by now and they are not getting any younger. There is a new kid on the block always.


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#55 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 05:56 AM

Im trying to figure out what the expectation is?  Did Ball and Ingram not play great defense vs the Blazers last night?  Was Ball not efficient from 3? 

 

Are guys looking for a certain stat line that proves these guys can ball?  The reality is pretty stats aren't going to come from a team with this many guys that can impact the game.  If you're looking for Brandon Ingram to avg 25/5/5 to prove he's playing well you're looking in the wrong place.  He's playing with a high usage player in Bron, other guys in Kuz/Hart that can get buckets. 

 

The key to this team is that on any given night when a guy is lagging there is another guy or 2 on the team that can pick it up.  That's one of the appeals of the Warriors.  If Klay is having a bad night, that can be mitigated by Steph and Dray and KD is pretty much overkill. 

 

What are the expectations for these young players from some of you fans?  Brandon Ingram may not ever be KD level and that's ok.  We may not see a player of that caliber for some time.  It doesn't mean Brandon Ingram or Ball can't be great and help win rings.   

 

Do we have a clear success story for teams drafting one-and-done after one-and-done and succeeding in 2-3 years? The franchise did same thing 4 times in a row and expected a different result, as if it would magically happen. The common denominator for the good apples in recent drafts is that they all stayed 3-4 years in college.

 

I have always known that it would be EXTREMELY difficult for a group of one-and-done to break out at once. First of all, it is unfeasible due to amount of opportunities and failures they need to learn and flourish. Second, no franchise or fanbase have the patience to sit through watching those group of young players try to figure it out. NBA is a competitive sport and there are always alternatives, often giving much simpler solutions.

 

Both Ingram and Ball had a lot of opportunities by now and they are not getting any younger. There is a new kid on the block always.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#56 BORNINLA

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 06:24 AM

The expectation is to play like a #2 pick and stop being to damn passive.  Last night he blew several layups....one of those he decided to pass to 3 point shooter instead of taking the easy two. 

 

Lonzo Ball has what it takes talent wise but does he have the drive and desire....probably not....



#57 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 06:37 AM

What does the #2 pick at 21 years old supposed to play like?  He plays damn near elite defense.  Sure he needs to be more aggressive but that's a part of the process.  You learn from it and get better.  If we are having these same conversations come All star break I will totally concede to the idea that we need to be concerned but the kid is impacting most games in a positive way.  That's what matters.  Just b/c he's the #2 pick doesnt mean he needs to put up a Russell Westbrook statline.  They are WINNING GAMES.  

 

Again what's the real tangible expectations?  Last year had so many NBA people jumping out the window on certain guys that aren't performing the same this year and neither are their teams.  

 

Ben Simmons scoring wise has regressed, still refuses to shoot and is almost useless off ball right now.  Not sure how adding Butler helps that.  

 

Jayson Tatum is trying to be Kobe and failing at it.  Jaylen Brown looks like the rookie version of himself right now but hey Zo should be moved b/c he isn't averaging 20/10 

 

 

The expectation is to play like a #2 pick and stop being to damn passive.  Last night he blew several layups....one of those he decided to pass to 3 point shooter instead of taking the easy two. 

 

Lonzo Ball has what it takes talent wise but does he have the drive and desire....probably not....


Edited by Jody Smokes, November 15, 2018 - 06:39 AM.

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#58 BORNINLA

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 07:14 AM

No, Zo should be moved if there is a chance to pick up a quality player, and that is where the arguments begins. A lot of fans think he should not be moved because of he “potential”

I’ll be honest and say I expect him to be the #2 to Lebron because I know he can be, especially with the ball in his hands. If he can’t be then it’s time to move on. This team needs to make the playoffs without Lebron putting up monster numbers like last night. Once in the playoffs then Lebron can go nuts.

I agree Ball is an elite defender at times...

#59 noknife

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 07:59 AM

No, Zo should be moved if there is a chance to pick up a quality player, and that is where the arguments begins. A lot of fans think he should not be moved because of he “potential”

I’ll be honest and say I expect him to be the #2 to Lebron because I know he can be, especially with the ball in his hands. If he can’t be then it’s time to move on. This team needs to make the playoffs without Lebron putting up monster numbers like last night. Once in the playoffs then Lebron can go nuts.

I agree Ball is an elite defender at times...


Defense is half the game and it’s no coincidence that the Lakers started winning games when their defense improved markedly. Lonzo defended Lillard for the bulk of the game last night and while Lillard did put up numbers it was largely from the free throw line and was fairly inefficient from the field. I’m not saying Zo is a great player, I am saying you are pretty quick to undervalue great defense, considering defense is a fairly consistent thing when compared to something like 3 point shooting etc.

#60 BORNINLA

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Posted November 15, 2018 - 09:26 AM

Defense is half the game and it’s no coincidence that the Lakers started winning games when their defense improved markedly. Lonzo defended Lillard for the bulk of the game last night and while Lillard did put up numbers it was largely from the free throw line and was fairly inefficient from the field. I’m not saying Zo is a great player, I am saying you are pretty quick to undervalue great defense, considering defense is a fairly consistent thing when compared to something like 3 point shooting etc.


How? I just posted he was an elite defender at times...

If Lonzo had Smush Parker skills I bet there would be no thread on this forum comparing him to another young guard. I think everyone can agree Lonzo has the skills, where we disagree is whether he will ever come out of his shell.




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