Jump to content


Photo

Lonzo vs Fox


  • Please log in to reply
142 replies to this topic

#21 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 13,446 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 13, 2018 - 01:34 PM

This forum has pretty much shown me that a lot of guys don't really watch the game as a whole and don't really "see" anything but the ball going into the hoop when they watch.   Don't care to know the game and pretty much learn what they know from ESPN. Good or bad play is only determined by the final result of the game.  Fox is having a great season, Zo has struggled in some and played well in other games.  

 

Neither of their situations, roles or duties are comparable. They aren't even the same type of player.  If Fox is on this team he isn't having a breakout season.  Just like last year everyone was prisoner of the moment for a lot of young players that aren't playing "well" this year.  

 

The Lavar and Laker effect is real with Lonzo.  I've never seen a guy get this singled out and criticized simply b/c people dont understand his game.  He has his flaws and things to improve on but if you can't see the kid adds value on the court you should stop talking about basketball. 


Edited by Jody Smokes, November 13, 2018 - 01:35 PM.

  • Massacre and PurpleNgoldBanners like this

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#22 MaceWindu

MaceWindu

    Starter

  • Member
  • 5,451 posts
  • Location:The OC
  • Name:Ben
  • Fan Since:Hector was a pup
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 13, 2018 - 01:47 PM

But who has more airballs?



#23 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 13,446 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 13, 2018 - 02:37 PM

We've also never seen a player of Lebron's status get signed to a team that was already building a different identity the season before.  People talk about patience but never really want to be patient.  Even Lebron admitted to doing this.  

 

If some people just take a step back and enjoy the season from a different angle they won't be so pressed for a trade, signing or some big change.  The young players are still developing on a game to game basis.  If we are having these same convos in Jan/Feb then we should be looking to change or trade someone.  

 

The only running theme that's been an issue for me and others with a watchful eye has been Luke's lack of a real offensive system and rotations.  He's overthinking at times and others he's not thinking (like playing Rondo/Lance together).  


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#24 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 13, 2018 - 02:56 PM

This forum has pretty much shown me that a lot of guys don't really watch the game as a whole and don't really "see" anything but the ball going into the hoop when they watch. Don't care to know the game and pretty much learn what they know from ESPN. Good or bad play is only determined by the final result of the game. Fox is having a great season, Zo has struggled in some and played well in other games.

Neither of their situations, roles or duties are comparable. They aren't even the same type of player. If Fox is on this team he isn't having a breakout season. Just like last year everyone was prisoner of the moment for a lot of young players that aren't playing "well" this year.

The Lavar and Laker effect is real with Lonzo. I've never seen a guy get this singled out and criticized simply b/c people dont understand his game. He has his flaws and things to improve on but if you can't see the kid adds value on the court you should stop talking about basketball.

You cant compare them?

So how is Lebron the best player in the nba? There are so many nba players that dont play like him so they shouldn't be comparable either lol

You guys use certain arguments only when it is convenient.

Please explain to the people that don't understand basketball what value Lonzo adds consistently on the offensive end. I'm not talking about what value you think his skillset could add, I'm asking what value he has actually added that couldn't be accomplished or exceeded by an average nba point guard?

You guys cling so hard to this dudes defense. Without that, he'd possibly be the worst starting point guard in the entire league.

And you have absolutely no clue how Fox would perform on this team. That statement is bs and irrelevant. The question is which player is better right now. And once again, like 99% of arguments on this forum, only a freakin laker fan would argue in favor of Lonzo.

You ever think that if the majority of this forum didn't severely overrate our players there wouldn't be a need for the amount of criticism that we see here?

There is far more irrational optimism on this forum than there is irrational hate for our own damn players. It's not even close.

As far as understanding basketball goes lol, there are only two people that come to mind that consistently say things that make me question their entire understanding of the game. Ball is not something new. We've seen players like him before.

You wonder why he gets heavily criticized? Maybe because of statements like the one you just made in order to defend him.

And I pay absolutely no attention to Lavar or ESPN so....

ESPN has some crazy agenda against the Lakers, If you don't like Lonzo than you dont understand the game, Fox would suck if he was on our team, Tatum is simply Kuzma but put in a better position...these opinions are not only insane but there is nothing credible that backs any of them up.

The world isn't against the Lakers, this team just isn't very good.

Edited by KidRN, November 13, 2018 - 03:08 PM.

  • bfc1125roy and LACAS like this

#25 BORNINLA

BORNINLA

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 940 posts
  • Location:JAPAN
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 13, 2018 - 06:48 PM

Lonzo is so good he never sees the 4th quarter.....maybe Walton isnt watching the game neither or all he sees is the ball going into the hoop and the final score....

#26 BigBaller

BigBaller

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 38 posts
  • Fan Since:84
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 12:44 AM

I'll give him to the end of the year to see where his shooting is.  Last time I checked he's 38% from 3pt and only around 54pct from the line.  Why the heck hasn't he worked on his free throw shooting?  And who in their right mind can excuse a Lakers PG barely cracking 50% from the free throw line...



#27 LACAS

LACAS

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 3,289 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:05 AM

Im not saying this is the case or not regarding Ball but we (Laker fans) do tend to overhype our guys.



#28 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 13,446 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:05 AM

So LA isn't very good at 7-6, meanwhile Boston is 7-6 but they are contenders?  Am I missing something or nah?  


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#29 LACAS

LACAS

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 3,289 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 05:49 AM

So LA isn't very good at 7-6, meanwhile Boston is 7-6 but they are contenders?  Am I missing something or nah?  

 

I think we're getting it, we'll get it, I always said we would come out of the gates slow and ugly but come DEC-JAN we would be clicking, only problem with this was my concern of falling too far behind. The Tyson addition has really helped this team!

 

BOS will also get it together, they're simply struggling as they reincorporate Kyrie and Heyward while decreasing the roles of Tatum, Brown and Rozier. They'll get it as well.

 

Although it's just one game, tonights game vs POR will be a nice test.

 

Ball needs to get it, looks like he struggles with confidence and staying engaged.


  • KidRN likes this

#30 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 4,140 posts
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted November 14, 2018 - 06:55 AM

So LA isn't very good at 7-6, meanwhile Boston is 7-6 but they are contenders? Am I missing something or nah?


They have also had a brutal start to the season with only 5 games they should be favored in (ATL, MIN X 2, SAC, PHX). So weird to have played Portland 3 times within the first month of the season. Schedule will favor the Lakers a lot the next couple of weeks.
  • LACAS likes this

#31 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 14, 2018 - 07:28 AM

So LA isn't very good at 7-6, meanwhile Boston is 7-6 but they are contenders? Am I missing something or nah?

I never said anything about Boston. I also never said anything about our team record. This is deflecting, which you do far too often. You intentionally try to branch off into different arguments in order to avoid the initial argument. Your arguments are a combination of deflecting and claiming that people listen to espn or don't understand basketball. I asked you a simple question about Ball, which you ignored in order to take a shot at Boston. Early season records aren't the best predictor of post season success, which I'm sure you fully understand.

Are you trying to say that as constructed, we could beat Boston in a 7 game series?

Edited by KidRN, November 14, 2018 - 07:30 AM.

  • LACAS likes this

#32 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 14, 2018 - 07:33 AM

BOS will also get it together, they're simply struggling as they reincorporate Kyrie and Heyward while decreasing the roles of Tatum, Brown and Rozier.

He knows that, he's playing games.
  • LACAS likes this

#33 BORNINLA

BORNINLA

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 940 posts
  • Location:JAPAN
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 08:07 AM

Why are the Celtics in this thread? But since they have been brought up..... arent they also trying to implement a new piece?

All I am going to ask is this.... Lonzo Ball, is he a championship team starting PG... before you answer think of D Fish and Ron Harper who were role player PG’s who hit key shots when it mattered, specifically D Fish.... now tell me you see Lonzo...

#34 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 13,446 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 14, 2018 - 08:31 AM

Umm they actually are.  Gordon Hayward was a max player when he signed last year.  The other 2 young guys found their place when Kyrie went out. They are adjusting just as much as the Lakers are.  

 

Derek Fisher wasn't what you described until year 4 and even then he was nothing more than a bit role player during his time in LA. He was nothing more than solid elsewhere.  Lonzo Ball is infinitely more talented than Fish.  

 

You're trying to compare a full body of work to a guy in his 2nd year.  How about comparing D Fish in year 2 vs Lonzo in year 2.  Could you have projected D Fish being a 5x champ from what he showed in years 1 and 2 as an individual?  Hell no

 

Why are the Celtics in this thread? But since they have been brought up..... arent they also trying to implement a new piece?

All I am going to ask is this.... Lonzo Ball, is he a championship team starting PG... before you answer think of D Fish and Ron Harper who were role player PG’s who hit key shots when it mattered, specifically D Fish.... now tell me you see Lonzo...


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#35 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 14, 2018 - 08:41 AM

Why are the Celtics in this thread? But since they have been brought up..... arent they also trying to implement a new piece?
All I am going to ask is this.... Lonzo Ball, is he a championship team starting PG... before you answer think of D Fish and Ron Harper who were role player PG’s who hit key shots when it mattered, specifically D Fish.... now tell me you see Lonzo...

Whether or not a team can win with a specific player really depends on his role and the rest of the roster.

Imo, the two things that make it extremely hard to win a ring at the point guard position is if you have a ball stopper and a defensive liability. Neither of those describe Ball. Could a team win a ring with Ball starting? Probably, but they'd have to have some serious offensive fire power. The question shouldn't be if we could win despite his flaws, the question should be can we win with Ball as a key player.

#36 BORNINLA

BORNINLA

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 940 posts
  • Location:JAPAN
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 08:48 AM

Umm they actually are. Gordon Hayward was a max player when he signed last year. The other 2 young guys found their place when Kyrie went out. They are adjusting just as much as the Lakers are.

Derek Fisher wasn't what you described until year 4 and even then he was nothing more than a bit role player during his time in LA. He was nothing more than solid elsewhere. Lonzo Ball is infinitely more talented than Fish.

You're trying to compare a full body of work to a guy in his 2nd year. How about comparing D Fish in year 2 vs Lonzo in year 2. Could you have projected D Fish being a 5x champ from what he showed in years 1 and 2 as an individual? Hell no


Im not even comparing body of work because it’s clear that talent, numbers etc. Lonzo is ages ahead of Fish.

What I am comparing is personality, drive, motivation, and ability to hit a shot when it counts. I do not see that in Ball and I will say it again, I dont think he wants to play basketball and is only doing it to help support the family. He shows more desire and motivation doing a rap song than being on the court.

Lonzo would have an easier time if he at least showed that he gives a [expletive]....

#37 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 13,446 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 14, 2018 - 08:55 AM

None of that was determined for Fish in year 1 or 2.  He's a barely 21 year old man.  Im not sure how old you are but there is a serious disconnect between some fans and players.  Remember the kid is 21 years old.  You dont know what personally motivates him to make that assumption.  

 

Kobe of all people tried his hand at rap.  You know why?  Because that's what 20-21 year olds do.  They have fun, they enjoy things that as you get older you find immature if you aren't making money off of it.  Fans lose sight that these guys are human beings.  

 

If you want to criticize the man's play keep it there but going into his personal desires is weird to me and if he's playing to provide for his family that's one of the greatest motivations there is for a man.  There's a whole lot of MFers not doing that.  

 

Im not even comparing body of work because it’s clear that talent, numbers etc. Lonzo is ages ahead of Fish.

What I am comparing is personality, drive, motivation, and ability to hit a shot when it counts. I do not see that in Ball and I will say it again, I dont think he wants to play basketball and is only doing it to help support the family. He shows more desire and motivation doing a rap song than being on the court.

Lonzo would have an easier time if he at least showed that he gives a [expletive]....


Edited by Jody Smokes, November 14, 2018 - 08:56 AM.

  • lakerfan98 likes this

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#38 BORNINLA

BORNINLA

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 940 posts
  • Location:JAPAN
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted November 14, 2018 - 09:47 AM

None of that was determined for Fish in year 1 or 2. He's a barely 21 year old man. Im not sure how old you are but there is a serious disconnect between some fans and players. Remember the kid is 21 years old. You dont know what personally motivates him to make that assumption.

Kobe of all people tried his hand at rap. You know why? Because that's what 20-21 year olds do. They have fun, they enjoy things that as you get older you find immature if you aren't making money off of it. Fans lose sight that these guys are human beings.

If you want to criticize the man's play keep it there but going into his personal desires is weird to me and if he's playing to provide for his family that's one of the greatest motivations there is for a man. There's a whole lot of MFers not doing that.


Kobe was also taking it to the rack with no fear and when coming off the bench came out with fire, even if he missed 100 shots. That’s the difference.

Who’s going into Lonzo’s personal desires? I’m just giving you FACTS that he is more aggressive doing a Rap song than playing on the game. I can’t believe you are even trying to dispute this.

Some of you are too attached to these players. Tonight will be more excuses on why Lonzo didnt play the 4th quarter or layed another egg... I hope Im wrong

#39 lakerfan98

lakerfan98

    Vice President of Interneting Operations

  • Member
  • 4,204 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Name:Ryan
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 14, 2018 - 12:17 PM

Man some folks just can't let Kobe go lol



#40 LakeShow1o1

LakeShow1o1

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 7,964 posts
  • Name:The Black Mamba Will Rise
  • Fan Since:1996
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted November 14, 2018 - 12:50 PM

Im not even comparing body of work because it’s clear that talent, numbers etc. Lonzo is ages ahead of Fish.

What I am comparing is personality, drive, motivation, and ability to hit a shot when it counts. I do not see that in Ball and I will say it again, I dont think he wants to play basketball and is only doing it to help support the family. He shows more desire and motivation doing a rap song than being on the court.

Lonzo would have an easier time if he at least showed that he gives a [expletive]....

 

This is one of the things that I will never comprehend.

 

As a fan, how can you possibly gauge, measure, and question a players "drive and motivation".  That's so farfetched.  You don't follow their everyday lives to know what they spend most of their time doing.  Simply cause a player isn't constantly posting video footage of him in the gym or getting shots up doesn't mean anything.

 

What's even more ironic is that of all our young guys, Lonzo has shown that he's willing to put in the work.  Over the course of just a single season his body has transformed significantly more than any other young player I've seen in some time.  In terms of his music, what's wrong with him pursuing something that he enjoys doing?  As long as it doesn't put his health at risk of injury, then I don't have an issue.  He also hasn't released new music in some time anyway.

 

Not sure how long you've been following Lonzo, but similar to BI, he's just as mellow and reserved.  If you view Lavar as the loud and talkative type, Lonzo is literally the polar opposite.  Sure I'd like to see some emotion from him on the court, but that's just not his personality.  You're labeling/questioning an individual's drive and hunger on the court solely based upon their personality.

 

Not ever player is a killer like Kobe and Russ on the court.


Edited by LakeShow1o1, November 14, 2018 - 01:02 PM.





4 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users