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Luke Walton takes heat from Magic Johnson for Lakers' start


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#41 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 06:09 PM

It will be Rambo when we fire Lukas. I’m fairly sure of that... I’d rather fire coaches in season no sense dragging things out.


Bye for now


This is what I mean, waste of time. You know rambis isn’t going to succeed. He’s a failed nba coach several times over already

Why do we fire a guy for another guy who’s failed already
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#42 Saber

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 06:37 PM

So what if he gets fired ? Who's going to take over ? Whoever it is it will take a significant time for the team to adjust to the change and the new style of play, rotations etc. By the time this happens we can be in a hole so deep there's no coming out. Luke should get his act together and the FO should give him a little bit more time. If there's no improvement by the end of the month maybe then I say it's really time for a change.



#43 Tensai

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 06:39 PM

This is what I mean, waste of time. You know rambis isn’t going to succeed. He’s a failed nba coach several times over already

Why do we fire a guy for another guy who’s failed already

 

Do you think Cavs fired Blatt to hire Lue beacuse they were in awe of his resume? Sometimes change is necessary. You don't judge in the moment if the twig you are holding onto is weak or not, when you are on a free fall.

 

This shouldn't mean that Lakers will hire Rambis, but just presenting some perspective.


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#44 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 07:35 PM

Do you think Cavs fired Blatt to hire Lue beacuse they were in awe of his resume? Sometimes change is necessary. You don't judge in the moment if the twig you are holding onto is weak or not, when you are on a free fall.

This shouldn't mean that Lakers will hire Rambis, but just presenting some perspective.


Well, lue was a complete unknown

I’d rather have a complete unknown than a known failure

That’s like being offered a bag with garbage in it, and another bag where you don’t know it’s contents and picking the garbage hoping it’s better than what’s in the other bag
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#45 bigfetz

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 07:44 PM

Sources close to Magic said he was stern with Luke Walton during the meeting more about not having a system in place than the wins and losses. Magic wants to see Luke have the Lakers run an offense that he has yet to see. Sources said that maybe the meeting opened Luke’s eyes.

Its a fair criticism by Magic. Not sure why every year it takes him so long to implement a system. They are NBA players and should be able to understand how to run sets quickly. Hell most of these guys can probably drop into any NBA team and understand most of the system in a week. You see it all the time with traded players. 


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#46 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 07:57 PM

This is from LFR on LG on Ingram. Speaks volumes to what I've been suspecting regarding coaching...
 

GoldenThroat wrote:
That's correct. I was talking to a scout about this last night at the game. Defenders will be at the FT line or below, and by the time he's gathered all of the moving parts they're contesting it. He isn't gonna get a high volume of open looks from 3 with his current footwork.
 

Yes, but I'm not certain there's enough attention to detail being paid to those sorts of things by the coaches. I've never seen a Lakers coach make a suggestion to a player that's related to their shooting technique. I get to Staples at 4:30pm and sit in the front row, close enough to hear everything. I've never seen a "hold your follow through" or "hop into this shot instead of 1-2 stepping" or anything like that. It's frustrating.

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#47 GCMD

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 10:29 PM

Don’t think he’s on the hot-seat yet, but good. Luke can’t do anything about LeBron missing free throws or our lack of defense, but he can stop with the funky lineups and the whacky assistants he put in charge of the D and O.

Schedule will get softer after the weekend, team is healthy, and starting 5 may finally be figured out. I expect some better ball to be played.

 

 

Sources close to Magic said he was stern with Luke Walton during the meeting more about not having a system in place than the wins and losses. Magic wants to see Luke have the Lakers run an offense that he has yet to see. Sources said that maybe the meeting opened Luke’s eyes.

 

 

@taniaganguli
Magic Johnson was angry in the meeting he had with Luke Walton (first reported by @wojespn and @mcten) but he doesn't make rash decisions. Several sources told me and @BA_Turner that Luke Walton's job is not in danger. Further, ownership still very much believes in him.

 

No matter how much Jeannie likes Luke, if Magic wants to fire Luke, LeBron is likely on board.  If that's the case, it's going to happen.  Writing is on the wall.


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#48 MambaMentality

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 11:01 PM

any thoughts on who you think would be best to coach the team (+ assistants)?

 

 

This is from LFR on LG on Ingram. Speaks volumes to what I've been suspecting regarding coaching...

 



#49 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 11:10 PM

any thoughts on who you think would be best to coach the team (+ assistants)?

 

I like Ettore Messina or Becky Hammon for sure. I wouldn't mind Mark Jackson as long as we get a very strong offensive assistant. 

 

As per assistants theres a lot of options out there. We would want the secondary assistant to make up for the weakness of the head coach. For example Dan D'Antoni and Mark Jackson would be interesting. I would also want a shooting coach, given how much we struggle with that.


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#50 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 11:11 PM

This isn't just Woj bias apparently...

 

 

 

[Ganguli] Johnson shouted and cursed at Walton, according to multiple sources who weren’t authorized to speak publicly. He asked Walton what he was doing with the team, wanting to see an offensive system in place that had yet to be implemented. At one point he chided Walton for interrupting him.


#51 MambaMentality

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Posted November 02, 2018 - 11:34 PM

messina would be dope, but he seems like he's pretty rigid as far as an offensive system goes. you think lebron would buy into that? videos of his point 5 drill are awesome and would be a really structured way to implement our desired offensive style.



#52 GCMD

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 12:59 AM

I wanted Messina before Luke.  I like Luke but the results haven't been there.

 

Harmon would be cool.  I like her philosophy but it's not likely.

 

 

 

Mark Jackson would make sense due to how the Lakers are constructed and he put the Warriors on the path to being a top 5 Defensive team.  I'd want him to hire a GREAT offensive coordinator.  Do that and I'm on board...maybe Mark Jasckon with George Karl as his Assistant Head Coach?

 

 

This team is built to play fast...very fast.  We have a hole at C but those guys (coaches) can do a lot with what we have.  Have to start with D though...I had hoped Luke would concentrate on that but it seems we aren't there yet.


Edited by GCMD, November 03, 2018 - 01:00 AM.

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#53 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 01:48 AM

messina would be dope, but he seems like he's pretty rigid as far as an offensive system goes. you think lebron would buy into that? videos of his point 5 drill are awesome and would be a really structured way to implement our desired offensive style.

 

I like that drill. The offense needs more movement. 

 

I think we have to put LeBron in better positions. Like the elbow and post, especially as he ages. I posted a video of the Cavs high post split from the Princeton offense (inspired by Tex Winter's low post split in the Triangle which the Warriors made famous). I think Messina would be a good option. I'm not sure how often assistants are poached midseason though. Seems like we might want to wait until the offseason for someone like him.



#54 LACAS

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 05:46 AM

Becky would be awesome and I could see the Lakers hiring the 1st female HC if of course they felt she was most qualified and could bring what they search for.

 

Mark would be a good hire but he would have to be attached to an offensive guru.

 

I still think a Luke firing would be premature; we're 8 games in + new key pieces + suspensions + a horrible shooting start.

 

Only way to justify a firing is if the Lakers have a SOLID coach + staff on deck otherwise ride out at least another 10-games and then make a decision. 



#55 BORNINLA

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 06:22 AM

I know everyone thinks its “ too early” but they will most likely drop these next 2 games and not because the other teams are more talented but because they are poorly coached. 3-7 and they still havent played some of the too tier teams in the league. Lebron doesnt have time for this and doesnt likely regretting his decision. Are some of you going to sit here and tell me the Clippers at 5-4 have better talent than the Lakers?

#56 LACAS

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 06:32 AM

I know everyone thinks its “ too early” but they will most likely drop these next 2 games and not because the other teams are more talented but because they are poorly coached. 3-7 and they still havent played some of the too tier teams in the league. Lebron doesnt have time for this and doesnt likely regretting his decision. Are some of you going to sit here and tell me the Clippers at 5-4 have better talent than the Lakers?

 

Most of these teams have been together for some time, there is something to be said about on court chemistry, Rome wasn't built over night. That said I too am feeling anxious and quickly losing patience but don't overlook all;

-We have key new pieces

-We had to deal with suspensions of 2 starters

-We're still working Lonzo back from injury

-We have been in most games and a few should have been won, we could have very easily been 5-3 or 4-4 and this conversation wouldn't be had.

-We had a horrendous shooting start, we could not hit a bucket if our life depended on it.

 

The next 2 games would have been tough regardless, POR is never an easy game especially with the way Lilliard has been playing and TOR is 8-1.



#57 BORNINLA

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 07:32 AM

Most of these teams have been together for some time, there is something to be said about on court chemistry, Rome wasn't built over night. That said I too am feeling anxious and quickly losing patience but don't overlook all;
-We have key new pieces
-We had to deal with suspensions of 2 starters
-We're still working Lonzo back from injury
-We have been in most games and a few should have been won, we could have very easily been 5-3 or 4-4 and this conversation wouldn't be had.
-We had a horrendous shooting start, we could not hit a bucket if our life depended on it.

The next 2 games would have been tough regardless, POR is never an easy game especially with the way Lilliard has been playing and TOR is 8-1.


Those Key new pieces arent rookies and arent dumb
They won 2 games with those 2 suspended, and some would say played better
Lonzo’s struggles are lack of coaching not physical
Those games were not won because the coaching staff has no idea how to run plays or has told Lebron/Ingram to go ISO ball.

The whole Chemistry thing is over blown, it’s been a lack of effort on the defensive end in the 4th quarter and players not talking to each other, Ingram, Hart, Ball, Kuzma have no excuse....
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#58 Clutch Factor

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 08:46 AM

To preface, I want Luke to stay because there's something poetic about having a homegrown coach, especially one that won championships as a player for the Lakers (and not someone with an archaic view of basketball like Byron Scott). 

 

However, his lineups, rotations, and out-of-timeout plays have very, very questionable. There's been time when players like Kuzma have had the hot hand just for Luke to sub him out to keep his rotations and minutes-distributions in check. More often than not, that would kill the momentum we had going forward. 

 

The Rondo/Lonzo lineups just do not work, especially when you also have KCP, Lance, and Williams in it. In one game we had 20+ different lineups. I understand Luke may be trying to mix and match lineups to see what would work, but that also destroys any continuity the team had. Lonzo/Ingram/LeBron/Kuzma/Mcgee as a starting lineup definitely needs more time. Ingram should still be in the lineup when LeBron sits so he can share the responsibility of ball-handing and scoring. 


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#59 Clutch Factor

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 08:54 AM

However, you can't place all the fault on Luke. Roster construction plays a role, too. Imagine if we had a backup C that could defend and rebound. Imagine if we had more capable shooters and wing defenders. I still do not understand how Michael Beasley fits with this team. 

 

Believe it or not, but Brook Lopez and Randle were a huge part of our success last year. Losing that shooting, rebounding, and defense definitely hurts our team. But the FO should have at least focused on a capable backup 5. 

 

A lot still depends on how Moe Wagner will play with this team. I generally do not like to place a lot of pressure on a rookie, and he still does not seem like the answer for defense at the 5. But the shooting, cutting, and movement off the ball will surely provide us more than Williams or Zubac can. 

 

Lastly, Luke can't control Ingram getting suspended for four games or LeBron missing free throws to secure the game. Our players also tend to foul way too much. 


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#60 dbtbandit67

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Posted November 03, 2018 - 10:27 AM

Magic Johnson isn't so much upset about the record as he is:

 

Luke taking "positionless basketball" so far to the points where the Lakers are getting outrebounded on both ends to the tune of 20 rebounds or more

When this is happening he just stands there on the sideline looking shocked as opposed to putting Javale back in, putting Williams in, calling a timeout, doing or saying ANYTHING like how about "Hey Mr. Lebron, think you can try harder?" no instead he sort of just stands there in shocked it's happening

He's too scared to get on LeBron's case to try harder defensively cause he's Soft as Charmin. Everyone knows that Magic will drop Luke before LeBron. Of course you're not gonna yell at him Larry Brown style or anything like that. That's not what anyone wants thats not what anyone is expected. Just calmly tell him, Hey, Bron, that guy blew right by you, Hey, Bron, think we can get 12+ rebounds today, Hey, Bron, think we can get 2 blocks today? it's not [expletive]ing hard dude, Bron doesn't mind a little accountability, and if he really won't do it even when being asked that's the time to ask Magic for help

Poor offensive sets. For someone who knows the Triangle as well as he does, for someone that came from Golden State's system, these backcourt offensive sets are primitive and puzzling. [expletive] like, Kuzma and Ingram not cutting all the way through, and looking like they are confused as what to do

STILL not having his rotations down, not playing his best 5 solidly for long periods of time (up until the Dallas game where Magic finally laid down the law and told him to start producing wins now or else)

 

And there's a lot more. You guys are the experts, you list them all.

 

Magic has this big ol jovial smile on his face all the time, but dont get that [expletive] twisted. Magic is $500 million. Magic is corporate America. Luke has had YEARS of losing records with the Lakers, Magic has been patient, this is not him having unrealistic expectations. He was plenty patient with Luke since he became President of basketball operations. With this roster in place, the Lakers should not be doing this bad. 

 

Is a President of Basketball Operations not allowed to hold his head coach accountable?

 

What the [expletive] did Luke think or hope was going to happen? That with all the corporate sponsors behind the Lakers, with all the money Laker fans were paying just to be able to watch them in exclusively on Spectrum and in the Staples Center (against rising ticket prices) that losses were going to pile up and he was going to do nothing about it?

 

That's not how Magic became rich. That's not how he turned around the Dodgers. That's not how you run a business or a franchise. The normal thing to do, the right thing to do, is hold people accountable, and Luke hasn't been cutting it for YEARS! It is more glaring now that they have enough talent on this roster. Nobody, really, was expecting a deep playoff run to happen this year, but the Lakers, no matter what is going on, should ALWAYS be competitive, and Luke Walton has not been doing his job in that regards.

 

So Luke, coach every [expletive]ing game with a sense of playoff urgency like your very job depends on it. Call timeouts when its needed, make the right adjustments, and get on the Lakers case to grab rebounds, make defensive rotations, and closeout. And to be fair to them YOU need to be the one telling them when that needs to happen!!!!!!!!!!


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