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Jimmy Butler open to playing in LA UPDATE page 5 has requested a Trade


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#21 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 25, 2018 - 02:50 PM

No.  I think KD covered up a lot of where they were weak and got exposed vs CLE.  Remove KD from this team 3 years later those weaknesses are still there and the team can't just return to their 2016 form.  The NBA as a whole has already adjusted to that type of play for it to be as effective as it was at that present time.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but even if KD left GSW and went East, GSW is still the favs to win it all, no?  Especially if KD is their only loss.


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#22 Wilt Chamberneezy

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Posted August 25, 2018 - 04:24 PM

NY dont have enough cap space to get both Kyrie and Jimmy - not if they wish to keep Porzingiz .

Can't they just get rid of Hardaway?



#23 GCMD

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Posted August 25, 2018 - 08:46 PM

No.  I think KD covered up a lot of where they were weak and got exposed vs CLE.  Remove KD from this team 3 years later those weaknesses are still there and the team can't just return to their 2016 form.  The NBA as a whole has already adjusted to that type of play for it to be as effective as it was at that present time.  

 

They won 73 games without him and KD's been a questionable fit from Day 1.  I understand that GSW had flaws but to say they would be WORSE than the Ch'ip favorite they were without KD is not logical, IMHO.  Other teams have gotten better but none of the most important players for GSW have gotten worse.  In fact, I think they are better defensively WITHOUT KD.


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#24 DLN

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Posted August 25, 2018 - 10:30 PM

Can't they just get rid of Hardaway?

Yeah, they can and IT possible. But Noah and Lee had to go as well (not just stretched).
Really isnt easy.

Edited by DLN, August 25, 2018 - 10:35 PM.

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#25 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 07:35 AM

They won 73 games without him and KD's been a questionable fit from Day 1. I understand that GSW had flaws but to say they would be WORSE than the Ch'ip favorite they were without KD is not logical, IMHO. Other teams have gotten better but none of the most important players for GSW have gotten worse. In fact, I think they are better defensively WITHOUT KD.


This is the dumbest post i ever read. They had Barnes Bogut and a younger Iggy.
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#26 PhillyLaker24

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 09:27 AM

Am I the only one who likes Jimmy Butler more than PG13? 


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#27 Clutch Factor

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 09:49 AM

Am I the only one who likes Jimmy Butler more than PG13? 

 

Are you referring to his fit on the Lakers team or his character?

 

I think PG13 would have been a seamless fit on the team with his 3-point shooting, shooting off of screens, and defense. However, I was still hesitant to offer him the max. Butler is definitely not a max player. 



#28 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 10:21 AM

You couldn't be more wrong.  None of the important players have gotten worse (except for Iggy mostly) but the NBA has caught up to how to play against that type of offensive movement.  What goes overlooked is how KD plays into this.  When the 73 win Warriors were dominating very few top teams were equipped to switch everything and defend them.  3 years later the top teams have lineups and key players that can do just that.  

 

Switching everything forces a team to beat you on an ISO (hence why Houston switchy teams so much, but thats another topic).  KD is the only player on the Warriors that is an elite ISO creator.  Steph can create there but he's not great at it from an all game standpoint.  If you switch everything KD will punish your weakness defender every time, if you don't switch the Warriors will punish you with all offball screens and motion.  

 

If they were to have to play the top teams w/o KD right now they would very well lose, especially to Houston and the Celtics.  2 teams that can switch all over the court and also punish them with atleast 2 great shot creators.  They'd still be a top 3-4 team considering they have one of the best defensive players ever and 2 of the greatest shooters ever.  

 

The bottom line is the NBA has adjusted to how great the 73 win team was.  That level of small dominance is just not possible now that more than 80 percent of the league can play that way now.  In 2016 they were still playing the Grizz who wanted to go Grit n Grind, Houston had not figured out how to play playoff ball yet, the Clippers were playing DJ/BG combo and OKC was the only team that could stand in there way and we see how that turned out with KD leaving to join them.

 

You put Russ, KD, Adams and 2 shooters vs them today OKC overcomes them and then they are the team having to make the adjustment.  People are so caught up in the amount of games they won vs how they would have to keep that going.  

 

They won 73 games without him and KD's been a questionable fit from Day 1.  I understand that GSW had flaws but to say they would be WORSE than the Ch'ip favorite they were without KD is not logical, IMHO.  Other teams have gotten better but none of the most important players for GSW have gotten worse.  In fact, I think they are better defensively WITHOUT KD.


Edited by Jody Smokes, August 26, 2018 - 10:21 AM.

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#29 Clutch Factor

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 10:34 AM

Despite the Warriors being a 73 win team that year, the combo of Russ/KD almost beat them. It took Klay going absolutely insane + Russ/KD choking for the Warriors to win. If either didn't happen, they don't advance. They ultimately lost to the combo of Kyrie + LeBron. 

 

Barnes + Bogut were especially vital to that team's success. After another year to the Finals, that team is going to be highly fatigued. In fact, it showed during last year's Playoff run. Without KD, I don't see them as a huge threat. 

 

That said, I'm still not convinced KD leaves. We can save this discussion for next offseason though. 


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#30 PhillyLaker24

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 10:49 AM

Are you referring to his fit on the Lakers team or his character?

 

I think PG13 would have been a seamless fit on the team with his 3-point shooting, shooting off of screens, and defense. However, I was still hesitant to offer him the max. Butler is definitely not a max player. 

 

I like Butler's game more. I do agree that PG13 fits really well with Lebron because of his shooting, which is an area he excels in compared to Butler. However, Butler has the better inside and driving game. They are very similar players in my opinion but I like Butler more than PG13, and it has nothing to do with this past off season. Ever since Butler bloomed late in CHI I thought he was a player I would choose over PG13. PG defense is slightly better, but Butler is no slouch there either. However, I think Butler's offense is more reliable and has been better than PG's even though Butler can't shoot the 3 as well. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, August 26, 2018 - 10:51 AM.

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#31 Japago

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 02:34 PM

I think George is in a different tier. I would have been willing to offer him the max no questions asked.

 

Just off the top of my head.

 

Tier A

Lebron / Davis / Durant / Kawhi / Steph / Westbrook / Giannis / Harden / Kyrie / etc.

 

Tier B

George / Lilard / Wall / Towns / Embiid / Klay / Draymond / Paul (on the decline) / etc.

 

Tier C

Butler / DeRozan / Beal / CJ Mc. / Conley / Walker / (and a majority of the so called "stars" in the league)

 

 

Many may disagree with my ranking of certain guys but that's just how I value the following players given their skillset, the landscape of the league, and the style of play that's currently being valued.

 

People are definitely underrating Butler. I think he's in the 2nd tier.

 

It's not easy leading teams to the postseason. He was the only star on the Bulls on his later years there. It's difficult to make the postseason with a 1-star team, as Laker fans will soon see. That's still a great accomplishment even in the east. The Timberwolves were a top 4 seed for most of the season before he missed time. This was with him playing alongside 2 core guys who are bad defenders. Wiggins was just an all-around disappointment. Jeff Teague wasn't that good either. Just think about what the Bulls and Timberwolves looked like afterward and beforehand respectively.

 

Kawhi is definitely better than him. But, I just don't think he'll be a possibility next off-season. I think it may get to the point where that's abundantly clear at the trading deadline. The Raptors may be really good, and the Lakers may be a big disappointment. I think those things have a decent chance at happening.

 

Every star player has to make adjustments when playing next to other stars. One star is going to see less volume. That's always been the case. Jimmy would have to go through that process. His not-elite 3 point shooting will make it a more difficult process to be sure. But, he's one of the best defenders in the league and an efficient overall scorer on high volume. His advanced statistics check out as well.

 

And, I don't see any of the Lakers' young players getting on that level. I don't think they even make it to the third tier. But, I know most people here think much more highly of them than that.


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#32 GCMD

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 08:14 PM

You couldn't be more wrong.  None of the important players have gotten worse (except for Iggy mostly) but the NBA has caught up to how to play against that type of offensive movement.  What goes overlooked is how KD plays into this.  When the 73 win Warriors were dominating very few top teams were equipped to switch everything and defend them.  3 years later the top teams have lineups and key players that can do just that.  

 

Switching everything forces a team to beat you on an ISO (hence why Houston switchy teams so much, but thats another topic).  KD is the only player on the Warriors that is an elite ISO creator.  Steph can create there but he's not great at it from an all game standpoint.  If you switch everything KD will punish your weakness defender every time, if you don't switch the Warriors will punish you with all offball screens and motion.  

 

If they were to have to play the top teams w/o KD right now they would very well lose, especially to Houston and the Celtics.  2 teams that can switch all over the court and also punish them with atleast 2 great shot creators.  They'd still be a top 3-4 team considering they have one of the best defensive players ever and 2 of the greatest shooters ever.  

 

The bottom line is the NBA has adjusted to how great the 73 win team was.  That level of small dominance is just not possible now that more than 80 percent of the league can play that way now.  In 2016 they were still playing the Grizz who wanted to go Grit n Grind, Houston had not figured out how to play playoff ball yet, the Clippers were playing DJ/BG combo and OKC was the only team that could stand in there way and we see how that turned out with KD leaving to join them.

 

You put Russ, KD, Adams and 2 shooters vs them today OKC overcomes them and then they are the team having to make the adjustment.  People are so caught up in the amount of games they won vs how they would have to keep that going.  

 

Just because GSW matched up to OKC poorly 3 years ago doesn't mean they match up poorly to them now.

 

Figuring out GSW doesn't diminish how great they are even without KD.  HOU figured out how to beat them WITH KD so...

 

 

That team doesn't play as well with KD on either end.  KD plays well and the other guys play well together but those things rarely happen at the same time.  KD still isn't a seamless fit and it shows.

 

Only way GSW still isn't a favorite to win it all without KD is if KD leaves and joins another superteam..


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#33 DLN

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Posted August 26, 2018 - 08:47 PM

People are definitely underrating Butler. I think he's in the 2nd tier.

 

It's not easy leading teams to the postseason. He was the only star on the Bulls on his later years there. It's difficult to make the postseason with a 1-star team, as Laker fans will soon see. That's still a great accomplishment even in the east. The Timberwolves were a top 4 seed for most of the season before he missed time. This was with him playing alongside 2 core guys who are bad defenders. Wiggins was just an all-around disappointment. Jeff Teague wasn't that good either. Just think about what the Bulls and Timberwolves looked like afterward and beforehand respectively.

 

Kawhi is definitely better than him. But, I just don't think he'll be a possibility next off-season. I think it may get to the point where that's abundantly clear at the trading deadline. The Raptors may be really good, and the Lakers may be a big disappointment. I think those things have a decent chance at happening.

 

Every star player has to make adjustments when playing next to other stars. One star is going to see less volume. That's always been the case. Jimmy would have to go through that process. His not-elite 3 point shooting will make it a more difficult process to be sure. But, he's one of the best defenders in the league and an efficient overall scorer on high volume. His advanced statistics check out as well.

 

And, I don't see any of the Lakers' young players getting on that level. I don't think they even make it to the third tier. But, I know most people here think much more highly of them than that.

 

I completely agree. Butler is a 2nd tier guy along with the other guys mentioned on that list.

 

In terms of fit i think in a switching system he'd fit right in.


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#34 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 04:27 PM

No trade for Butler cept Deng! Plus 2nd round pick 2021

#35 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 04:29 PM

Lakers will surprise most as they play tough against top teams but health matters we’ll have an interesting must watch season!

#36 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 04:59 PM

I’d like this to be over and rollin already

#37 Clutch Factor

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 05:51 PM

I like Butler's game more. I do agree that PG13 fits really well with Lebron because of his shooting, which is an area he excels in compared to Butler. However, Butler has the better inside and driving game. They are very similar players in my opinion but I like Butler more than PG13, and it has nothing to do with this past off season. Ever since Butler bloomed late in CHI I thought he was a player I would choose over PG13. PG defense is slightly better, but Butler is no slouch there either. However, I think Butler's offense is more reliable and has been better than PG's even though Butler can't shoot the 3 as well. 

 

The hesitancy I have is can Butler succeed playing off-ball and in a system where ball movement is maximized? Lonzo and LeBron will be the primary ball-handlers, so Butler will excel on cuts and finishing inside. 

 

But he'll need to be able to stretch the floor to some degree (I'd like to see his midrange efficiency). 

 

The main problem I have is offering him the max. Would rather he take a major discount to play with us haha (if we missed out on Kawhi + KD + Klay).



#38 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 06:24 PM

Slow days
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#39 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted August 27, 2018 - 08:07 PM

So true slow mid summer Sparks are out too! Dodgers barely hanging on relief pitching shaky, hitting inconsistent Ready for some hoops already and yes the zBig3 ain’t gonna do it! Smartly Kobe has passed on this abortion

Edited by DaSmoothOperator, August 27, 2018 - 08:09 PM.


#40 PhillyLaker24

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Posted August 28, 2018 - 08:21 AM

The hesitancy I have is can Butler succeed playing off-ball and in a system where ball movement is maximized? Lonzo and LeBron will be the primary ball-handlers, so Butler will excel on cuts and finishing inside. 

 

But he'll need to be able to stretch the floor to some degree (I'd like to see his midrange efficiency). 

 

The main problem I have is offering him the max. Would rather he take a major discount to play with us haha (if we missed out on Kawhi + KD + Klay).

 

From Mid range he is about as efficient as Paul George. Would you give PG13 the max? I am on the mind that if PG is worth the max so is Butler. 


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