Jump to content


Photo

Why I am not high on Brandon Ingram for this upcoming season


  • Please log in to reply
496 replies to this topic

#461 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 29, 2018 - 11:36 PM

We are going to hold on to him until he has no value
  • GCMD and LACAS like this

#462 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 15,534 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted November 29, 2018 - 11:41 PM

The guy doesn't score at nearly a high enough clip or play-make to warrant demanding the ball as much as he does.

 

I would like to see advanced stats measuring the Lakers success with him handling the ball and with him in ISO. I feel like they can't be good. He has an ok FG% because he's very selective with his shots. But, passing it out at the last second for another guy to take a bad shot is just as bad as him missing a shot himself.

 

He's not bad but he's also not dominant.  Without LeBron on the floor, Ingram is a decent scorer but with LeBron on the floor, he's not.  No bueno.  We all know that unless we have LeBron playing starter minutes, we suck (excuse my language).

 

Guys like Kawhi and KD could possibly struggle next to LeBron but without him on the floor, they'd still be top 3 players.  Worth the risk, IMHO.

 

 

The way to fix LeBron-Ingram pairing is to have Ingram come off screens and feed off LeBron/Lonzo/Rondo setting him up.  He doesn't need to be a creator.  He will help us a lot more by being a finisher.



#463 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Danish Laker Fan

  • Member
  • 9,744 posts
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 30, 2018 - 04:04 AM

He's not bad but he's also not dominant.  Without LeBron on the floor, Ingram is a decent scorer but with LeBron on the floor, he's not.  No bueno.  We all know that unless we have LeBron playing starter minutes, we suck (excuse my language).

 

Guys like Kawhi and KD could possibly struggle next to LeBron but without him on the floor, they'd still be top 3 players.  Worth the risk, IMHO.

 

 

The way to fix LeBron-Ingram pairing is to have Ingram come off screens and feed off LeBron/Lonzo/Rondo setting him up.  He doesn't need to be a creator.  He will help us a lot more by being a finisher.

Just because a S&T is possible doesn't mean that it's a good idea to put ourselves in that position. Leverage is going go be key next summer and if we can sign KD or Kawhi outright, then we're in a major position of power which will help us pull of the next move.

 

You do make a good point with regards to BI’s trade value, which will decrease if we dont make some changes. I just dont think that trading should be the first solution on the list. Would try coaching, staggering minutes, bringing in some shooting and letting him run the 2nd unit first, before we trade him.  



#464 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted November 30, 2018 - 07:07 AM

Just because a S&T is possible doesn't mean that it's a good idea to put ourselves in that position. Leverage is going go be key next summer and if we can sign KD or Kawhi outright, then we're in a major position of power which will help us pull of the next move.
 
You do make a good point with regards to BI’s trade value, which will decrease if we dont make some changes. I just dont think that trading should be the first solution on the list. Would try coaching, staggering minutes, bringing in some shooting and letting him run the 2nd unit first, before we trade him.  

To bring in shooting we'd have to trade
  • GCMD likes this

#465 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Danish Laker Fan

  • Member
  • 9,744 posts
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 30, 2018 - 07:27 AM

To bring in shooting we'd have to trade

Sure, but we wouldn't necessarily have to trade BI.


Edited by DanishLakerFan, November 30, 2018 - 07:29 AM.


#466 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 4,140 posts
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted November 30, 2018 - 07:57 AM

BI isn't having a very good season.  He looked promising last season, and has had stretches this season without LeBron on the floor where he has looked decent.  Unfortunately this team is incapable of winning without LeBron on the floor, so any value he has without LeBron on the floor has no real value, since we are talking about 10-15 minutes a game and even less come playoff time.  He probably still has decent trade value.



#467 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 15,534 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted November 30, 2018 - 10:12 PM

Just because a S&T is possible doesn't mean that it's a good idea to put ourselves in that position. Leverage is going go be key next summer and if we can sign KD or Kawhi outright, then we're in a major position of power which will help us pull of the next move.

 

You do make a good point with regards to BI’s trade value, which will decrease if we dont make some changes. I just dont think that trading should be the first solution on the list. Would try coaching, staggering minutes, bringing in some shooting and letting him run the 2nd unit first, before we trade him.  

 

None of those things will prove that Ingram is worth trading for.  It will point to him not being a good #2 and not being able to play well next to a ball dominant star.

 

How many stars/franchise players out there that AREN'T ball dominant?

 

I think that's going to continue to be exposed the longer Ingram plays next to LeBron.  If Ingram doesn't explode into #1 status, the list of teams wanting to experiment with him next to their #1 will get smaller.



#468 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Danish Laker Fan

  • Member
  • 9,744 posts
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted November 30, 2018 - 11:00 PM

None of those things will prove that Ingram is worth trading for.  It will point to him not being a good #2 and not being able to play well next to a ball dominant star.

 

How many stars/franchise players out there that AREN'T ball dominant?

 

I think that's going to continue to be exposed the longer Ingram plays next to LeBron.  If Ingram doesn't explode into #1 status, the list of teams wanting to experiment with him next to their #1 will get smaller.

 

You may be right that BI's value will continue to drop, but we cant just trade him for the sake of trading him. There has to be a deal out there that makes sense both in the short and long term and i'm not really seeing it.

 

Also, as much as we all are critical of BI offensively, i think his defense has been a pleasant surprise. Luka and Jr. went 7-27 tonight and BI and Lonzo had a major part in that.



#469 LACAS

LACAS

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 3,289 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted December 01, 2018 - 05:30 AM

He's only 20, he needs another 3-5 years ;)


  • GCMD and KidRN like this

#470 DaSmoothOperator

DaSmoothOperator

    DaSmoothOperator

  • Member
  • 4,215 posts
  • Fan Since:1965
  • Fav. Laker:Jerry West

Posted December 01, 2018 - 06:16 PM

Great point about passing last second ! And it takes time to get yo sheet together in the League! But it’s sink or swim time Zu too has to show up or get moved!

Edited by DaSmoothOperator, December 01, 2018 - 06:18 PM.


#471 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 9,819 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted December 01, 2018 - 07:56 PM

Great point about passing last second ! And it takes time to get yo sheet together in the League! But it’s sink or swim time Zu too has to show up or get moved!

Zu has no value lol.
  • Jackson likes this

#472 fido

fido

    Analyst, Moderator, Insomniac

  • Moderator
  • 15,223 posts
  • Location:Costa Mesa, CA
  • Name:Andy
  • Fan Since:1982
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 03, 2018 - 05:51 PM

Decent role player, nothing special.



#473 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 15,534 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 05, 2018 - 12:15 PM

You may be right that BI's value will continue to drop, but we cant just trade him for the sake of trading him. There has to be a deal out there that makes sense both in the short and long term and i'm not really seeing it.

 

Also, as much as we all are critical of BI offensively, i think his defense has been a pleasant surprise. Luka and Jr. went 7-27 tonight and BI and Lonzo had a major part in that.

 

I thought we've already discussed why I don't suggest specific players.  Guys like Jody and Massacre do nothing but tear down your suggestions to try to support their opinion.

 

I'd rather point out the problem and debate that.  How it can be fixed (trade for x player) is a separate issue entirely.  If we can add a player that fills our needs, I don't think that's a "trade for the sake of trading him" scenario.

 

 

 

I'm sold on Lonzo.  Expectations color the view on him.  At times, he's our best passer, rebounder and defender.  He IS "that dude".  Lonzo is like the best spices on the planet - it can make bad meat taste good but it makes the best cuts taste like a dream.  Same with Draymond and Jason Kidd.  Give them talent to work with and they make the game look effortless.

 

I'm not sold on Ingram.  Major issue is he's going to play out of position as long as he plays next to LeBron unless he learns how to play off the ball and can shoot as well as he did last year from 3.  Good thing about Ingram?  I've seen signs from him that he's aware that he dribbles too much.  He's been looking to attack faster and to use screens more effectively.  I believe he can be a 23ppg player if he just learned to move well without the ball.

 

 

Everything we want Ingram to learn to do, guys like Beal, Klay Thompson, JJ Redick, CJ McCollum and others already do naturally.  If we keep trying to force players to be what we need, we will keep running into the Russell/Randle situations.  Ingram is NOT a 2.



#474 Jackson

Jackson

    Legend

  • Member
  • 11,031 posts
  • Location:Honolulu, Hawaii
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant/Kareem/Sasha(LOL)

Posted December 05, 2018 - 12:26 PM

I thought we've already discussed why I don't suggest specific players.  Guys like Jody and Massacre do nothing but tear down your suggestions to try to support their opinion.

 

I'd rather point out the problem and debate that.  How it can be fixed (trade for x player) is a separate issue entirely.  If we can add a player that fills our needs, I don't think that's a "trade for the sake of trading him" scenario.

 

 

 

I'm sold on Lonzo.  Expectations color the view on him.  At times, he's our best passer, rebounder and defender.  He IS "that dude".  Lonzo is like the best spices on the planet - it can make bad meat taste good but it makes the best cuts taste like a dream.  Same with Draymond and Jason Kidd.  Give them talent to work with and they make the game look effortless.

 

I'm not sold on Ingram.  Major issue is he's going to play out of position as long as he plays next to LeBron unless he learns how to play off the ball and can shoot as well as he did last year from 3.  Good thing about Ingram?  I've seen signs from him that he's aware that he dribbles too much.  He's been looking to attack faster and to use screens more effectively.  I believe he can be a 23ppg player if he just learned to move well without the ball.

 

 

Everything we want Ingram to learn to do, guys like Beal, Klay Thompson, JJ Redick, CJ McCollum and others already do naturally.  If we keep trying to force players to be what we need, we will keep running into the Russell/Randle situations.  Ingram is NOT a 2.

 

Ehh. It would be godsent if Lonzo provides the Lakers anything close to what Draymond gives the Warriors and what Jason Kidd did throughout his career.


  • GCMD likes this

#475 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 15,534 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted December 05, 2018 - 08:56 PM

Ehh. It would be godsent if Lonzo provides the Lakers anything close to what Draymond gives the Warriors and what Jason Kidd did throughout his career.

 

Dray came out after 3 years of college.

Kidd came out after 2.

 

Lonzo has all of the intangibles those guys have.  I'm not doing a direct comparison.  I'm comparing their style and impact.  People get too sensitive with direct comparisons.



#476 manaro90

manaro90

    All-Star

  • Member
  • 5,637 posts
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 06, 2018 - 12:52 AM

any updates on BI?


Cologne, Germany Baby! LAKERS FOR LIFE.  |   Add me Instagram: princealaddin90

 

 


#477 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 4,140 posts
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted December 06, 2018 - 11:06 AM

Ehh. It would be godsent if Lonzo provides the Lakers anything close to what Draymond gives the Warriors and what Jason Kidd did throughout his career.


He is 20 years old and has put in about one season worth of work so far. Give him some time, he is playing well.

#478 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • Member
  • 25,116 posts
  • Location:LA

Posted December 06, 2018 - 11:19 AM

I’ve personally liked lonzo this year. Easily one of the best defensive players at his position, far and away

And his offense is coming more and going less. He’s still not where I’d like him to be particularly but he’s improving

I think if he can get himself to shooting 45% and 35% from 3 then I’m goong to be relatively happy
Posted Image

#479 noknife

noknife

    Sixth Man

  • Member
  • 4,140 posts
  • Fan Since:1978
  • Fav. Laker:Shaquille Oneal/Kobe Bryant

Posted December 06, 2018 - 12:42 PM

I’ve personally liked lonzo this year. Easily one of the best defensive players at his position, far and away

And his offense is coming more and going less. He’s still not where I’d like him to be particularly but he’s improving

I think if he can get himself to shooting 45% and 35% from 3 then I’m goong to be relatively happy


His defense is outstanding and he is playing big time minutes in important games at a very young age. If he develops a shot he will be exactly the piece that a championship caliber team needs. He does everything other than shoot and stay aggressive very well, granted those are big things to change. I am still very high on him.

#480 Japago

Japago

    Starter

  • Member
  • 4,617 posts
  • Name:Pat
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 06, 2018 - 01:56 PM

The Lakers missed their best chance to get good value for Ingram. I don't think he'll ever be thought of as highly as he was during the off-season. He looks like a long-term project, probably not developing until his 2nd contract if he ever does. His contacts runs out after next season. He's accumulated a pretty sizable injury history now. Remember, Randle didn't have any trade value in his contract year when the Lakers tried trading him.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users