Jump to content


Photo

Ranking Our Young Core


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 LakeShow1o1

LakeShow1o1

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,176 posts
  • Name:The Black Mamba Will Rise
  • Fan Since:1996
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 26, 2018 - 12:50 PM

With the draft having just gone by and each team is buckling up for free agency, it'll be interesting to see where the future of the league will move towards.

Considering all the talent filled rosters, I wanted to see how some of you guys would rank our young core against some of the other leagues finest.

 

I've seen a lot of back and forth all off-season long comparing the talent, potential, and overall aptitude of our young guys so I figured this would be a good topic.

All of the teams and players listed will be 24 years of age or younger.  The following order is not my ranking, simply a list.

 

Lakers

- Brandon Ingram

- Lonzo Ball

- Kyle Kuzma

- Julius Randle

- Josh Hart

 

Sixers

- Ben Simmons

- Joel Embiid

- Dario Saric

- Joel Embiid

- Markelle Fultz

 

Nuggets

- Nikola Jokic

- Jamal Murray

- Gary Harris

- Michael Porter Junior.

- Juan Hernangomez

 

Suns

- Devin Booker

- Josh Jackson

- DeAndre Ayton

- Dragan Bender

- Marquese Chriss

 

Bucks

- Giannis

- Jabari Parker

- Thon Maker

- DJ Wilson

- Malcolm Brogdon

 

Celtics

- Jaylen Brown

- Jayson Tatum

- Marcus Smart

- Terry Rozier

- Robert Williams

 

There may be a few other rosters with great up and coming talent but I view these cores as the cream of the crop.

 



#2 PhillyLaker24

PhillyLaker24

    Starter

  • Member
  • 5,361 posts
  • Name:Joe
  • Fan Since:2001
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 26, 2018 - 02:05 PM

I would take our young Talent over everybody's except Sixers, Twolves, Bucks (simply because of Giannis), and maybe Celtics. I am not that big of a fan of Jaylen Brown because I think he is slightly overrated. I mean I saw him get locked down by Korver, and I know our young wings/guards could eat off Korver. However, I think Tatum has potential to be very special. Terry Rozier is a little iffy to me, hot or cold type of guy. Marcus Smart is a dog that gives it his all, very good defender but his offense is lacking. The thing is we saw that young group do a lot of damage in the playoffs this year. They were being helped a lot by Hordford, but the young guns did really well. I just dont know if our team would have been able to go on that type of run.

 

I think we have a very good young core. However, our big problem is we are missing that star. If we had someone like a Giannis, Embiid/Simmons, or KAT caliber subbed in for anyone of our young guys we would have the best young core in the league. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 26, 2018 - 02:07 PM.

  • LakeShow1o1 likes this

All I want for Christmas is a Laker girl :D

 


#3 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 26, 2018 - 05:17 PM

This will not end well...LOL.

 

You forgot Mikal Bridges for the Suns and Donte DiVicenzo for the Bucks.

 

 

If you can make a case for one of the Lakers being a Franchise Level Talent, we could include them in this comparison but I don't think that's the case.  OTOH, I could make a case for all of those other teams having Franchise Level Talent:

 

Sixers - Simmons/Embiid

Nuggets - Jokic and potentially Michael Porter Jr if he makes a full recovery.

Suns - Ayton/Booker

Bucks - Giannis and possibly Jabari Parker

Celtics - Kyrie and possibly Tatum, in the right system.

 

Lonzo is a culture changing Floor General.

Kuzma is a potential Great Scorer.

Randle is likely gone.

Ingram?  Would have to make strides and change his body to become an elite scorer...tall order.

 

I want to but I'm just not seeing it.  Our young guys have lots of potential but unless you squint really hard, I don't see Future Franchise Player...the closest would be Lonzo or Kuzma...I could build an identity and system around Lonzo and feature Kuzma in that system but IMHO, if you take either away from the other, their games suffer.  I could find more people to surround Lonzo than players who can maximize Kuzma...


Edited by GCMD, June 26, 2018 - 05:21 PM.


#4 LakeShow1o1

LakeShow1o1

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,176 posts
  • Name:The Black Mamba Will Rise
  • Fan Since:1996
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 26, 2018 - 06:07 PM

This will not end well...LOL.

 

You forgot Mikal Bridges for the Suns and Donte DiVicenzo for the Bucks.

 

 

If you can make a case for one of the Lakers being a Franchise Level Talent, we could include them in this comparison but I don't think that's the case.  OTOH, I could make a case for all of those other teams having Franchise Level Talent:

 

Sixers - Simmons/Embiid

Nuggets - Jokic and potentially Michael Porter Jr if he makes a full recovery.

Suns - Ayton/Booker

Bucks - Giannis and possibly Jabari Parker

Celtics - Kyrie and possibly Tatum, in the right system.

 

Lonzo is a culture changing Floor General.

Kuzma is a potential Great Scorer.

Randle is likely gone.

Ingram?  Would have to make strides and change his body to become an elite scorer...tall order.

 

I want to but I'm just not seeing it.  Our young guys have lots of potential but unless you squint really hard, I don't see Future Franchise Player...the closest would be Lonzo or Kuzma...I could build an identity and system around Lonzo and feature Kuzma in that system but IMHO, if you take either away from the other, their games suffer.  I could find more people to surround Lonzo than players who can maximize Kuzma...

 

It seems as though you've always had a rather interesting perspective on potential and franchise level talent.

 

I just find it extremely difficult to understand how you can view the potential of a certain guy such as Jabari Parker whom has been pretty injury ridden his entire career (tore both ACLs) as having franchise potential, as well as a guy in Michael Porter Jr. whom hasn't played a single second in the big league and only a few college games.

Yet you can't seem to value the guys on our roster.  Kuzma broke a few Laker records in the scoring department this year as a rookie and Ingram developing very nicely on both ends of the floor.

 

There's no doubt guys like Simmons, Embiid, KAT, and Jokic have proven that they are franchise material and as of now, there isn't a single Laker that has proven to be at the level of any of those names listed.  However, I think there is still a lot of time for them to develop and eventually either get to that point or hopefully even surpass it.



#5 Massacre

Massacre

    yo

  • Contributor
  • 9,967 posts
  • Location:California

Posted June 26, 2018 - 06:24 PM

1) Philly, 2 all-stars already and guys who impact the game on both ends
2) Bucks, Giannis is a top 10 player alone. Not much else that’s interesting...and no, Jabari Parker is NOT potentially a franchise player lmao.
3) Nuggets, Jokic is a liability on defense, but his offense is that crazy. Harris and Murray are also studs.
4) Lakers. No clear star yet, but Ingram and Lonzo play hard on both ends, Kuzma is a gifted scorer, Hart will be a very interesting role player, and Randle, if retained is another key piece. Lots of depth...no clear #1 tho.
5) Celtics, ECF trip...but a lot of those guys were put in a good position. A lot of the young guys on this list can replicate that production if put in a similar position. Kyrie doesn’t count, he’s 26.
6) Suns, Booker is interesting. Overrated, but still a gifted scorer. Jackson also is a good piece who started putting it together at the end of the year, but not much else to be impressed about. Didn’t really include rookies for any of these teams, but if Ayton is who we think he is, they will shoot up this list.

Edited by Massacre, June 26, 2018 - 06:25 PM.

  • lakerfan98 likes this

#6 PhillyLaker24

PhillyLaker24

    Starter

  • Member
  • 5,361 posts
  • Name:Joe
  • Fan Since:2001
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 26, 2018 - 06:32 PM

This will not end well...LOL.

 

You forgot Mikal Bridges for the Suns and Donte DiVicenzo for the Bucks.

 

 

If you can make a case for one of the Lakers being a Franchise Level Talent, we could include them in this comparison but I don't think that's the case.  OTOH, I could make a case for all of those other teams having Franchise Level Talent:

 

Sixers - Simmons/Embiid

Nuggets - Jokic and potentially Michael Porter Jr if he makes a full recovery.

Suns - Ayton/Booker

Bucks - Giannis and possibly Jabari Parker

Celtics - Kyrie and possibly Tatum, in the right system.

 

Lonzo is a culture changing Floor General.

Kuzma is a potential Great Scorer.

Randle is likely gone.

Ingram?  Would have to make strides and change his body to become an elite scorer...tall order.

 

I want to but I'm just not seeing it.  Our young guys have lots of potential but unless you squint really hard, I don't see Future Franchise Player...the closest would be Lonzo or Kuzma...I could build an identity and system around Lonzo and feature Kuzma in that system but IMHO, if you take either away from the other, their games suffer.  I could find more people to surround Lonzo than players who can maximize Kuzma...

 

So you think we have the worst young core in the league? Yikes.


All I want for Christmas is a Laker girl :D

 


#7 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 26, 2018 - 07:15 PM

It seems as though you've always had a rather interesting perspective on potential and franchise level talent.

 

I just find it extremely difficult to understand how you can view the potential of a certain guy such as Jabari Parker whom has been pretty injury ridden his entire career (tore both ACLs) as having franchise potential, as well as a guy in Michael Porter Jr. whom hasn't played a single second in the big league and only a few college games.

Yet you can't seem to value the guys on our roster.  Kuzma broke a few Laker records in the scoring department this year as a rookie and Ingram developing very nicely on both ends of the floor.

 

There's no doubt guys like Simmons, Embiid, KAT, and Jokic have proven that they are franchise material and as of now, there isn't a single Laker that has proven to be at the level of any of those names listed.  However, I think there is still a lot of time for them to develop and eventually either get to that point or hopefully even surpass it.

 

You're saying stuff I didn't say.

 

I see value in the guys we have.

I qualified the Jabari and MPJ inclusions.

I acknowledged Kuzma's potential as a scorer.

 

 

It doesn't matter what your or I think our young guys will develop into.  You asked about right now, IIRC.  I gave you my honest opinion.  Out of the teams and young cores you listed, they all have guys with Franchise Potential or Talent.

 

If you can make a case for one of our guys having the potential to lead a Franchise, go for it...it's assumed that the team would be good with them as the best player.  I love our guys but as I said, I can't see it.  I could be wrong.  Please, withhold your judgement of my opinion until you can justify your own.

 

So you think we have the worst young core in the league? Yikes.

 

Where did I say that?  I didn't.  I analyzed the teams he listed and their young cores.  If those are the only teams in the NBA, something very, VERY wrong has happened in the last 8 hours.



#8 lakerfan98

lakerfan98

    Vice President of Interneting Operations

  • Member
  • 4,578 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Name:Ryan
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted June 26, 2018 - 08:54 PM

I don't think any of our players have shown the ability to be franchise players yet but I don't think Parker has either. And I don't care how much hype Porter has until he actually plays an NBA game he's not making the list either. I agree with everything else but you lost me there.

#9 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Danish Laker Fan

  • Member
  • 9,956 posts
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted June 26, 2018 - 08:57 PM

 

Ingram?  Would have to make strides and change his body to become an elite scorer...tall order.

 

 

LOL!



#10 ArabicMamba

ArabicMamba

    All-Star

  • Member
  • 5,756 posts
  • Location:Cologne, Germany
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted June 26, 2018 - 09:20 PM

shame you forgot about wagner


Cologne, Germany Baby! LAKERS FOR LIFE.  |   Add me Instagram: princealaddin90

 

 


#11 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Danish Laker Fan

  • Member
  • 9,956 posts
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted June 26, 2018 - 09:32 PM

Genuine question, no baiting intended.

Contracts aside, if you’re building a team, who do you take first, second, and third? Out of the following guys.

Jabari Parker
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Michael Porter Jr.
Kyle Kuzma
Julius Randle
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum

 

1. Lonzo

2. Jayson

3. Ingram



#12 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 26, 2018 - 09:32 PM

I don't think any of our players have shown the ability to be franchise players yet but I don't think Parker has either. And I don't care how much hype Porter has until he actually plays an NBA game he's not making the list either. I agree with everything else but you lost me there.

 

Jabari Parker, before the ACL injuries, was one of the best young players in the NBA.  He and Giannis were forming a monster Duo with the Bucks.  Parker's ability to score is on par with Jayson Tatum, likely better coming out of Duke.  In fact, Parker was becoming a poor man's Carmelo - same body type but Jabari's better without the ball.

 

Michael Porter Jr, if healthy like I qualified initially, is the most skilled player entering the NBA this year, bar none.  He was ranked in the top 3 for the past 3 years on everyone's mock draft.  The ONLY thing that kept Porter from being a top 5 pick this year was his back injury.

 

 

I know you're going to say that was against high school competition and that's fair.  It doesn't change the fact that he played against all of the top players in this draft on various stages (USAB, AAU, EYBL, McD's AA) and was still one of the best players on the floor every time he played.

 

I get that there are MAJOR questions about both of these guys' health but if they return to form, there is no question either could be the best player on a very good NBA team within the next 3-5 years...ESPECIALLY Porter.  If you thought Jayson Tatum was NBA ready, Porter will easily eclipse him if his back heals.

 

See Embiid and Ben Simmons...Porter's talent level is on par with theirs.  Both recovered from major injuries entering the NBA to realize their potential as Franchise Level Players.

 

 

You may think I'm giving other players an unfair advantage by qualifying their health status.  That's the point.  Health is the ONLY thing that limits these guys' potential.  The talent is there.  Even if our guys are healthy for the rest of their lives, they may NEVER reach the talent level of Parker or Porter.

 

PS - If you ask Duke fans to rank Jabari, Tatum and Ingram coming out of Duke, it's almost UNANIMOUS: Tatum-Parker-Ingram (in that order).  Ingram isn't viewed as highly (as the other 2) among most basketball fans outside of LA.  Though he was the undisputed best player on that Duke team, he always lacked the "killer instinct" the other 2 had naturally.  Ingram is trying to compensate in the NBA by concentrating on ISO moves but that won't give him something that can't be taught or learned.  You either have it or you don't.  He doesn't.  Ingram is more Klay than KD/Steph.  When he accepts that, the game will come easy to him and his potential will easily be reached.


Edited by GCMD, June 26, 2018 - 10:15 PM.


#13 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 26, 2018 - 10:11 PM

Genuine question, no baiting intended.

Contracts aside, if you’re building a team, who do you take first, second, and third? Out of the following guys.

Jabari Parker
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Michael Porter Jr.
Kyle Kuzma
Julius Randle
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum

 

Before I can answer that, I need to clarify somethings.

 

Are they all healthy?

Are we assuming Luke is the HC?

Have they all reached their potential?

Can I assume we are talking about building a top 4-6 team, aka a contender?

 

If the question was: Rank them based on potential and talent, my list would be:

 

Porter

Tatum

Parker

Kuzma

Lonzo

Ingram

Randle

Brown

 

While I personally think Ingram is the 2nd most versatile of that group behind Porter, I don't think his ceiling is nearly as high.  What he (Ingram) is trying to do is become someone who doesn't fit his body type or personality.  If it works, cool...that doesn't normally happen.  I made the same argument about Randle and I think this year proved it.  Randle is a finisher, not a creator/stretch 4 or 5.  Playing to his strengths was more efficient than trying to become someone he was/is not.

 

Porter has legit KD talent.

Tatum is one of the most NBA-Ready Prospects in the past 15 years.

Parker has the potential to be an elite scorer, much like Melo.

 

Kuzma is another guy who could average 23ppg+ and lead his team in scoring.  Defense needs work but the scoring ability and aggressive personality are special.

 

Lonzo is a guy who may never average 20ppg but if he's given the reins, he can change any franchise overnight.  I could build a good team around that.  I believe Lonzo's best traits can't be taught and have unlimited potential but even if he does reach his potential, he will need guys like the ones listed above.  That's the only reason I don't have him as a Franchise level Player and in the top 3.

 

Ingram's best attribute is versatility which will be limited if he tries to shed that to become a scoring mercenary.  I would NOT build a team around that.

 

Randle is a bully in the post and potential star with a team built around him but I don't see him contributing defensively or in most other aspects of the game if he's not scoring.  You could build a team around him but much like DMC, I don't see that team being a contender (if he's the best player).  His scoring is pretty close to 1-dimensional even though it's pretty dominant with the right pieces around it.

 

Brown?  Versatile and aggressive.  He's an elite level athlete who isn't very skilled (IMHO) but has DPOY level potential.  If he adds better handles/shooting/court awareness, I will change my assessment but as of right now, I see him as a product of Brad Stevens' system, not a guy you can plug&play in most systems.  Potential to improve is always there with elite athletes but I can't rank him higher than the others until he shows improvement (skills).

 

 

I'm sorry if you disagree.  I don't mind debating.  I'd appreciate it if I wasn't labeled a "Hater" because I have a differing opinion.  If anything I've said is confusing, let me know and I will try to clarify it.


Edited by GCMD, June 26, 2018 - 10:13 PM.

  • bfc1125roy, KidRN and Adam like this

#14 I Love Lebron

I Love Lebron

    I suck Lebron's toes.

  • Member
  • 12,050 posts

Posted June 26, 2018 - 11:56 PM

Orlando >>>> all the teams stated

I like to dip my feet in toilet water & smell them.


#15 PhillyLaker24

PhillyLaker24

    Starter

  • Member
  • 5,361 posts
  • Name:Joe
  • Fan Since:2001
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 27, 2018 - 08:24 AM

 

 

Where did I say that?  I didn't.  I analyzed the teams he listed and their young cores.  If those are the only teams in the NBA, something very, VERY wrong has happened in the last 8 hours.

 

I was making my comment in reference to teams that were listed and others that have young cores, I should have been more clear. Doesn't really make sense to compare our young cores to teams that don't have one. A team must have an adequate number of young guns to even be considered possessing a young core. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 27, 2018 - 08:25 AM.

All I want for Christmas is a Laker girl :D

 


#16 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 27, 2018 - 11:44 AM

I was making my comment in reference to teams that were listed and others that have young cores, I should have been more clear. Doesn't really make sense to compare our young cores to teams that don't have one. A team must have an adequate number of young guns to even be considered possessing a young core. 

 

There are teams with young cores not listed.  I'm not sure what your definition of "young core" is so that may be where our disconnect lies.

 

Our young guys are talented and have promise.  I'm not sure any of them are sure-fire Franchise Level Talents, though.  If you can make a case for that, I'm open to debate it.



#17 PhillyLaker24

PhillyLaker24

    Starter

  • Member
  • 5,361 posts
  • Name:Joe
  • Fan Since:2001
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted June 27, 2018 - 12:18 PM

There are teams with young cores not listed.  I'm not sure what your definition of "young core" is so that may be where our disconnect lies.

 

Our young guys are talented and have promise.  I'm not sure any of them are sure-fire Franchise Level Talents, though.  If you can make a case for that, I'm open to debate it.

 

I was the first reply in this thread, and stated we don't have that star. That is the only reason we don't have the top young core. If we did have that star player I feel we would have the best young core. 

 

Anyway, where would you rank our young core in relation to the other young cores out there? I think we can agree young core means a group of at least 3+ young guns that are a big part of the rotation. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, June 27, 2018 - 12:21 PM.

All I want for Christmas is a Laker girl :D

 


#18 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 16,239 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted June 27, 2018 - 08:33 PM

I was the first reply in this thread, and stated we don't have that star. That is the only reason we don't have the top young core. If we did have that star player I feel we would have the best young core. 

 

Anyway, where would you rank our young core in relation to the other young cores out there? I think we can agree young core means a group of at least 3+ young guns that are a big part of the rotation. 

 

I believe we have the top young core that doesn't have a franchise player or potential franchise player.


  • Adam likes this

#19 8RingKobe

8RingKobe

    Rookie

  • Member
  • 973 posts
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted June 28, 2018 - 12:17 AM

Philly has two for sure stars, and the Bucks have a superstar in Giannis but after that I would say we have the best young core.

Although Ayton and MPJ should be fun to watch, assuming he’s made a full recovery from that back injury.

#20 KidRN

KidRN

    Legend

  • Member
  • 10,040 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted June 28, 2018 - 05:51 AM

I believe we have the top young core that doesn't have a franchise player or potential franchise player.

That's like being the smartest burger flipper

Edited by KidRN, June 28, 2018 - 05:54 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users