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Would you give up Ball, Ingram and/or Kuzma for Leonard?


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#1 manaro90

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 01:33 AM

http://www.espn.com/...-spurs-make-nba

 

What do you guys think? is he coming to LA? Would the FO give up our young core for him?

 

In my opinion I dont mind giving up Ball or Kuz but Ingram damn, they should keep Brandon. Hes a keeper and a future superstar.

 

Destination: Los Angeles Lakers

Lakers get: Kawhi Leonard

Spurs get: Lonzo BallLuol DengKyle Kuzma

Magic get: Joffrey Lauvergne, 2020 Lakers second-round pick, $1.7 million cash (from Lakers)

Kevin Pelton: While the Lakers can't offer San Antonio the kind of future picks that other teams can in a Leonard trade, they could offer promising young talent. This deal would work with either Ball or Brandon Ingram, the most recent two No. 2 overall picks, depending on how the Spurs value the two prospects.


Despite the focus on his poor shooting (42 percent on 2s, 30.5 percent on 3s), Ball rated well by advanced metrics as a rookie because of his versatile contributions. His elite court vision translated into a high assist rate and Ball was an outstanding rebounder for a point guard. He was also an active team defender who rated third among point guards in the defensive component of ESPN's real plus-minus.

Spurs guard Dejounte Murray was one of the two point guards to rate better defensively than Ball, and a Murray-Ball backcourt would have the potential to be one of the NBA's best on defense. An All-Rookie first-team pick, Kuzma averaged 18.6 points per 36 minutes as a rookie, proving a dangerous 3-point shooter with the ability to create off the dribble.

As the price for getting both Ball and Kuzma, San Antonio would have to take on the final two seasons of Deng's contract, which would cut into the team's 2019 cap space. It's possible, however, that the Spurs could rehabilitate Deng into a rotation player and salvage some value from his deal.

To make the trade work with Ball, the two teams would have to find a third partner to take on Lauvergne's salary (under the assumption he picks up his 2018-19 player option). The Magic are an ideal candidate because they currently have enough cap space to take on Lauvergne's contract but are unlikely to use cap space once the league year turns over after the July moratorium. So the only cost of adding Lauvergne would be his actual salary, which the Lakers would cover with cash.

 

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#2 DLN

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 02:39 AM

I think a lot depend on how much pressure Kawhi is going to put on the Spurs.

 

He could pretty much force his way to LA if he wanted, by saying he might not play for anyone else and that he'll sign with LA in 2019. I dont think he'll go that far though. In the end i think he does go to LA because we might be able to put a better offer on the table than anyone else. I dont think Sixers or Celtics are going to give up their best assets for a guy unless they get some kind of hint that he'd consider staying.

 

In a perfect world, we get him by giving up "only" Ingram and manage to unload Deng in the process. I dont think that is likely and i think a deal based on Ingram, Kuzma, Deng and the 2019 unprotected first round pick is more realistic and a tough offer to beat.

 

Another option is to try and include a third team. Sacramento has been rumored to want to trade down, so perhaps they get that package mentioned above - Kuz, BI, Deng, 19 1st - and then send #2 to SA. That would save the Spurs a [expletive]load of money and get them a new cornerstone player such as Doncic to build around.

 

Generally, I prefer to give up Ingram over Lonzo because Lonzo is a better fit, has higher upside (IMO) and has one more year on his rookie deal.


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#3 LACAS

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 04:44 AM

Personally if there is any chance its going to take Ingram, Kuz, a pick and Deng... anything short of that will be laughed at by Pop.

 

Even then I doubt it UNLESS Kawhi makes sure all other suitors understand he will not sign an extension or resign with them.


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#4 LakerGeezer

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 05:46 AM

Absolutely.  Elite level, in-their-prime talent like Kawhi hitting the market is very rare.  Ball and Kuzma are fine players, likely future AllStars but are not in the Kawhi class at all.  Assuming Kawhi is healthy and he can reasonably explain what happened with the Spurs, I say grab him and build around him.  I'd rather give up Ingram than Ball though.  

 

A KL trade would make the possibility of signing PG much better.  Guys like Lopez will want to stick around for less $, etc.  


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#5 noknife

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 07:47 AM

No brainer of the century.  Ingram and Kuz are nice players, they might develop into great players.  Kawhi is the best 2 way player in the entire league, a finals MVP, efficient from all over the floor, one of if not THE best defender in the game, and a bonafide superstar that is proven.  If you have Kawhi and you sign PG you guaranteed make the playoffs and are  competitive in the west, if you sign Kawhi, PG and somehow land LeBron you have 3 of the best 2 way players in the league on the same time, and two guys that would be even better with LeBron (surrounding LeBron with efficient shooters is deadly).  You don't get that opportunity often and it just about guarantees rings.  You can surround those 3 guys with anyone you want that is capable of playing in the NBA and you have a very very good team.  I would give up Ingram before Ball, but I would also give up all 3 if I needed to, Kawhi is just better than all 3 of them put together. Tho I don't think you would have to do that and I also don't think the money would work out without Deng being involved.  So yes, you give up any 2 that the Spurs want and you take Kawhi and never look back.



#6 KidRN

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 07:50 AM

Id give them whoever they want as long as the deal isn't completely one sided.
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#7 Jody Smokes

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 08:06 AM

If you are getting Lebron and PG via free agency then Ingram, Kuz and Deng for salary filler makes the most sense.  

 

That leaves you with  Brook/Bron/Kawhi/PG/Ball with Hart/possibly Randle off the bench.  Defensively I love the idea of Bron/Kawhi/PG but offensively I just think you can't maximize 3 high usage players w/o some chemistry issues or somebody is just totally willing to take a backseat.  Im still trying to figure out how Kawhi/Bron fit.  PG has a lot of offball skill that makes him dangerous and a quality 2nd player with Lebron but can and will Kawhi be up for that role WITH PG on the team?  

 

It sounds like a no brainer to some but the closest we saw to this was with the Heat but Bosh was a big man.  Big men can easier adjust to being the recipients of others creating shots for them. 


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#8 LAkerFan85

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 08:43 AM

If it means we are getting Lebron and PG then yes.

#9 Magic Bryant

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 09:42 AM

I fully expect to be in the minority here and that's perfecfly fine. My 2 cents is I'll gladly give up any young pieces EXCEPT for Kuz and Ingram. 

 

When it comes to Kuz it's not that I think he is or will be a better player than KL. My argument is basically centered around BI vs KL, long-term.

 

I've said since day one that Ingram's best player comp was Leonard. I see almost identical similarities in their games at this same developmental stage of their careers. Obviously BI's slight build presents more of a physical challenge but both were identified as potential elite defenders early as prospects, with questions about their shot and scoring ability. 

 

I think ppl tend to forget just how raw of a prospect KL was coming into the NBA. What help him more than anything was being drafted onto a team with a established HOFer and two perennial All-Stars. Expectations were not that of a #2 overall pick and thus he was allowed to develop at his own pace and naturally progress. His first four years in the league he was not pushed nor prodded to step into a role his game was not truly ready for. And to this day, his aggressiveness and assertiveness as a offensive player is still questioned at times because he's still developing that 'superstar' mentality as a scorer. But he has developed into aruably the best two-way player in the league. I think in 2-3 years that is what ppl will be saying about Ingram. 

 

Even physically, KL's most notable characteristic is his insane wingspan. A measurement that BI also possess. 

 

Now BI is not on the level of KL currently. But I think it would be very impratical and short-sighted to trade a younger, cheaper version of Leonard just to get better right now. We've become a microwave society and have forgotten that sometimes talent needs to be developed. I think in 2-3 years we will regret the decision. If LeBron is the end game here, I don't believe for a second that playing with KL vs PG makes much of a difference at all. Especially if you can keep young guys like BI, Kuz, and Hart while bringing in another All-Star versus just him and KL and bunch of veteran guys/role players. Keeping guys like BI and Kuz allow for a succession plan if and when guys like LBJ and Leonard are no longer the players there are now and tough decisions have to be made down the road. If LeBron is coming I think he'll understand a deeper team is more important at this stage of his career than a heavily front-loaded roster with depth issues.



#10 lakerfan98

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 09:58 AM

If you are getting Lebron and PG via free agency then Ingram, Kuz and Deng for salary filler makes the most sense.  

 

That leaves you with  Brook/Bron/Kawhi/PG/Ball with Hart/possibly Randle off the bench.  Defensively I love the idea of Bron/Kawhi/PG but offensively I just think you can't maximize 3 high usage players w/o some chemistry issues or somebody is just totally willing to take a backseat.  Im still trying to figure out how Kawhi/Bron fit.  PG has a lot of offball skill that makes him dangerous and a quality 2nd player with Lebron but can and will Kawhi be up for that role WITH PG on the team?  

 

It sounds like a no brainer to some but the closest we saw to this was with the Heat but Bosh was a big man.  Big men can easier adjust to being the recipients of others creating shots for them. 

 

Good point.  I'm all for creating a super team but how do the egos of Kawhi, LeBron, and PG all mix.  If Kawhi wants out of San Antonio to expand his brand how is that going to work sharing the ball with two other stars?  Luke is going to have to channel his inner Phil.  



#11 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 09:59 AM

If you are getting Lebron and PG via free agency then Ingram, Kuz and Deng for salary filler makes the most sense.

That leaves you with Brook/Bron/Kawhi/PG/Ball with Hart/possibly Randle off the bench. Defensively I love the idea of Bron/Kawhi/PG but offensively I just think you can't maximize 3 high usage players w/o some chemistry issues or somebody is just totally willing to take a backseat. Im still trying to figure out how Kawhi/Bron fit. PG has a lot of offball skill that makes him dangerous and a quality 2nd player with Lebron but can and will Kawhi be up for that role WITH PG on the team?

It sounds like a no brainer to some but the closest we saw to this was with the Heat but Bosh was a big man. Big men can easier adjust to being the recipients of others creating shots for them.

At first, I couldn’t see it either but I realized that a team with ELITE DEFENDERS who play in one of the fastest tempo in the NBA will create most of their offense from steals and pushing the pace even on makes.

This will be one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA.

As long as they play to their strengths which is centered around those 3 things (defense/rebounding/pace), we will be more than ok offensively. All 3 can’t play the whole game together and our bench isn’t likely to be stellar so when one of them sits for a break, we can go back to a more traditional half court offense which any of them can headline perfectly fine. If you pair either LeBron or Kawhi with PG as a 2ndary unit, I think your halfcourt offensive efficiency goes up.

It can work..see how HOU played and defended GSW in the playoffs.

Edited by GCMD, June 16, 2018 - 10:02 AM.

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#12 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 10:40 AM

Well if Phx is willing to trade that no.1 like it is being said as of late

The Suns plan to explore a potential Kawhi Leonard trade involving the No. 1 pick. (via @KevinOConnorNBA)

#13 erfolk

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 11:09 AM

Well if Phx is willing to trade that no.1 like it is being said as of late

The Suns plan to explore a potential Kawhi Leonard trade involving the No. 1 pick. (via @KevinOConnorNBA)

They wouldnt do that though since he wouldnt re sign. The GM would get fired if they do that

#14 manaro90

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 11:57 AM

when can trades be made official in free agency? 1st july right?


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#15 Wilt Chamberneezy

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 11:58 AM

I would trade 2 of them for Kawhi. I would trade all 3 for Greek Freak



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Posted June 16, 2018 - 12:18 PM

^ Giannis is more flashy and longer and younger and all that, but right now, KL is still a better player on BOTH ends. He is far more PROVEN and has a more clutch and killer instinct AND he's done his thing in the far tougher Western Conference throughout the years. I'll take this at least more seriously if and when Giannis has a consistent outside shot, especially from three.
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yo.


#17 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 12:21 PM

Yes, next question. 


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#18 Massacre

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 03:38 PM

If I have LeBron, George and Kawhi...Ingram isn’t needed. There’s no time or touches for him to develop as needed.

I also have a VERY hard time believing the Spurs will get a better prospect that a team is willing to part with. Sit back and be patient. If Kawhi and his camp play this out like PG did, it’ll work in our favor.
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#19 Jody Smokes

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 04:28 PM

All that sounds good on paper but EGOs are REAL.  What if Kawhi is motivated in the same way Kyrie is?  He wants to forge a new path possibly independent of something that has been stated as what made him.  The Spurs way was obviously great for Tim Duncan's personality not Aldridge and Kawhi.  

 

I still believe that if you're going to bring in Lebron the 2nd guy is going to have to be ok with no being the centerpiece of the team.  Paul George probably is much more ok with that than Kawhi.  That's purely me speculating but based on recent rumors about him I'd lean towards that line of thinking.  

 

I think it may just come down to Kawhi+PG or Lebron+PG...Lebron is the obvious choice in this equation.  IDC what the age gap is.  The best version of Kawhi is probably not even as good as Lebron over the next 2 years.  

 

At first, I couldn’t see it either but I realized that a team with ELITE DEFENDERS who play in one of the fastest tempo in the NBA will create most of their offense from steals and pushing the pace even on makes.

This will be one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA.

As long as they play to their strengths which is centered around those 3 things (defense/rebounding/pace), we will be more than ok offensively. All 3 can’t play the whole game together and our bench isn’t likely to be stellar so when one of them sits for a break, we can go back to a more traditional half court offense which any of them can headline perfectly fine. If you pair either LeBron or Kawhi with PG as a 2ndary unit, I think your halfcourt offensive efficiency goes up.

It can work..see how HOU played and defended GSW in the playoffs.


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#20 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2018 - 05:23 PM

All that sounds good on paper but EGOs are REAL. What if Kawhi is motivated in the same way Kyrie is? He wants to forge a new path possibly independent of something that has been stated as what made him. The Spurs way was obviously great for Tim Duncan's personality not Aldridge and Kawhi.

I still believe that if you're going to bring in Lebron the 2nd guy is going to have to be ok with no being the centerpiece of the team. Paul George probably is much more ok with that than Kawhi. That's purely me speculating but based on recent rumors about him I'd lean towards that line of thinking.

I think it may just come down to Kawhi+PG or Lebron+PG...Lebron is the obvious choice in this equation. IDC what the age gap is. The best version of Kawhi is probably not even as good as Lebron over the next 2 years.


Super teams are built with a purpose which is winning. Each one of these guys can stay right where they are if they want the most touches.

They are chasing GSW. GSW gets it done by spreading the wealth and Kerr does a good job of keeping them focused and disciplined. I believe Luke was hired to bring the same style of offense and team building/chemistry to LA. I’m not worried about egos. If they start that stuff, they don’t want to win.

And Luke has Magic backing him up. If they don’t listen to Luke, they WILL listen to Magic.

Defense, switch everything, get deflections, rebound at an elite level, push on makes and misses.

All of the players listed have a high BBIQ so running Luke’s halfcourt offense will take a few games but I have no doubt the meat will be on the table by the playoffs next year. Until then, the defense will hold us down.
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