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12-13 Lakers...the slow death


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#1 Jody Smokes

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 02:09 PM

Just some of my thoughts about the team and season and how they effected where we are and what some of us think.  This was the last season of hope for most of us for Bean to get #6 and tie MJ.  In hindsight there were a lot of skeptics but the majority of people thought this squad was going to beat OKC in the WCF and eventually challenge the Heat. 

 

I think the beginning of the end of this team started in the 11-12 season prior.  Basketball styles were starting to shift.  Role players appeared to have a larger role in winning basketball games and what not. 

 

The biggest mistake Jim/Mitch made was not trading Pau after the CP3 trade was vetoed and retooling the roster.  There were still options out there.  Instead they overlooked his weaknesses and how teams would take advantage of him and eventually the defense.  Pau was still playing the 4 where teams were running out stretch 4s and bigs that were very athletic and dynamic on the competing teams: Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Bosh. 

 

1.  The Nash trade should've never happened.  Steve Nash was still a good basketball player, but in the 11-12 season he was getting his back stretched out on a losing team.  He was a disaster on defense ready to happen and had already lost his ability to penetrate to the rim vs a focused defense.  Some can point to the results that LA lucked into their picks today (using hindsight) but what about what COULD have been? 

 

2.  Pau and Dwight was never going to work on either side of the floor effectively.  Pau could not check 4s and Dwight wanted to post up to validate himself as a "big man".  The loser of this pairing was Pau and in turn the team. 

 

3.  MDA was a good hire overall but the roster was not a good fit for any elite level of basketball.  It's always said that they should've hired someone else, particularly Phil.  Phil said he didn't want the job.  Also listening to Phil over the years I personally believe he didn't really want the job b/c he knew they would fail unless there was a roster overhaul. 

 

4. Kobe was one of the worst defenders in the league that year.  Largely responsible for why they were so bad on defense.  The pressure was on, he probably felt the age and fatigue and stop trusting in team.  My fav Kobe years were 08-10 b/c we saw him trust the team, Phil and flat out win ball games.  All the things they were great about him were display.  Funny how the only thing that gets celebrated by a lot of the extreme fans are things that contributed to him actually losing: Chucking, not trusting his squad, gambling on defense

 

5. Dwight was a clown and the LA front office had to be out of touch to think it was going to work.  It's almost as if they did no intel on him.  I guess they believed if he was in a Lakers uni he was going to change.  Huge mistake.  Another mistake was pushing for the dude to play when he wasn't physically ready.  It's been reported that he shouldn't have been on the floor until January.  Getting him healthy should've been 1st priority but obviously competing for a ring was 1st priority but those are conflicting interests.  So why even make the trade?  Did they know Bynum's knees were shot already?  Who knows.  We do know Philly got the worst out of that trade.  Lost Iggy and a 1st in that deal.  Rarely gets talked about though (another day). 

 

6. The positive part of the season was just seeing Kobe kill it offensively.  We saw some foreshadowing of how a typical pace and space offense worked today that year in LA.  He ran a lot of high PnR to get buckets and shots at will.  Something I wish we would have gotten more of from him.  Kobe could have easily put up James Harden type numbers with the right team makeup and willingness to trust his squad. 

 

7.  It was the last season until this past one that I believe most of us enjoyed even watching the team.  Up until this season I was team tank.  Lakers absolutely needed to tank to get to where they are today.  Getting rid of Jim/Mitch was required.  I battled with this but the proof in the work Magic/Pelinka have put in has shown those 2 getting fired was LONG overdue. 

 

8.  Hopefully the front office looks to this season and see the mistakes made and never repeat them.  The front office ate well for years on the backs of 3 generational players and didn't have to put in much work to be a top team. 

 

I believe this was the same season I joined this forum.  I was one of the few guys talking that it was over and they need to rebuilt talk before most.  Even had some dude on here that they thought was my BURNER account in Harry Styles lol. I hope we never have another season that heartbreaking again.

 


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"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#2 Jackson

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 03:47 PM

Just some of my thoughts about the team and season and how they effected where we are and what some of us think.  This was the last season of hope for most of us for Bean to get #6 and tie MJ.  In hindsight there were a lot of skeptics but the majority of people thought this squad was going to beat OKC in the WCF and eventually challenge the Heat. 

 

I think the beginning of the end of this team started in the 11-12 season prior.  Basketball styles were starting to shift.  Role players appeared to have a larger role in winning basketball games and what not. 

 

The biggest mistake Jim/Mitch made was not trading Pau after the CP3 trade was vetoed and retooling the roster.  There were still options out there.  Instead they overlooked his weaknesses and how teams would take advantage of him and eventually the defense.  Pau was still playing the 4 where teams were running out stretch 4s and bigs that were very athletic and dynamic on the competing teams: Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Bosh. 

 

1.  The Nash trade should've never happened.  Steve Nash was still a good basketball player, but in the 11-12 season he was getting his back stretched out on a losing team.  He was a disaster on defense ready to happen and had already lost his ability to penetrate to the rim vs a focused defense.  Some can point to the results that LA lucked into their picks today (using hindsight) but what about what COULD have been? 

 

2.  Pau and Dwight was never going to work on either side of the floor effectively.  Pau could not check 4s and Dwight wanted to post up to validate himself as a "big man".  The loser of this pairing was Pau and in turn the team. 

 

3.  MDA was a good hire overall but the roster was not a good fit for any elite level of basketball.  It's always said that they should've hired someone else, particularly Phil.  Phil said he didn't want the job.  Also listening to Phil over the years I personally believe he didn't really want the job b/c he knew they would fail unless there was a roster overhaul. 

 

4. Kobe was one of the worst defenders in the league that year.  Largely responsible for why they were so bad on defense.  The pressure was on, he probably felt the age and fatigue and stop trusting in team.  My fav Kobe years were 08-10 b/c we saw him trust the team, Phil and flat out win ball games.  All the things they were great about him were display.  Funny how the only thing that gets celebrated by a lot of the extreme fans are things that contributed to him actually losing: Chucking, not trusting his squad, gambling on defense

 

5. Dwight was a clown and the LA front office had to be out of touch to think it was going to work.  It's almost as if they did no intel on him.  I guess they believed if he was in a Lakers uni he was going to change.  Huge mistake.  Another mistake was pushing for the dude to play when he wasn't physically ready.  It's been reported that he shouldn't have been on the floor until January.  Getting him healthy should've been 1st priority but obviously competing for a ring was 1st priority but those are conflicting interests.  So why even make the trade?  Did they know Bynum's knees were shot already?  Who knows.  We do know Philly got the worst out of that trade.  Lost Iggy and a 1st in that deal.  Rarely gets talked about though (another day). 

 

6. The positive part of the season was just seeing Kobe kill it offensively.  We saw some foreshadowing of how a typical pace and space offense worked today that year in LA.  He ran a lot of high PnR to get buckets and shots at will.  Something I wish we would have gotten more of from him.  Kobe could have easily put up James Harden type numbers with the right team makeup and willingness to trust his squad. 

 

7.  It was the last season until this past one that I believe most of us enjoyed even watching the team.  Up until this season I was team tank.  Lakers absolutely needed to tank to get to where they are today.  Getting rid of Jim/Mitch was required.  I battled with this but the proof in the work Magic/Pelinka have put in has shown those 2 getting fired was LONG overdue. 

 

8.  Hopefully the front office looks to this season and see the mistakes made and never repeat them.  The front office ate well for years on the backs of 3 generational players and didn't have to put in much work to be a top team. 

 

I believe this was the same season I joined this forum.  I was one of the few guys talking that it was over and they need to rebuilt talk before most.  Even had some dude on here that they thought was my BURNER account in Harry Styles lol. I hope we never have another season that heartbreaking again.

I agree with almost everything you said here. The 2012-2013 years have killed this franchise unless proven otherwise.


Edited by Jackson, June 04, 2018 - 03:47 PM.


#3 lakerfan98

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 06:46 PM

2003 and 2004 as well. Our roster was so damn top heavy. Hey, we've got Shaq and Kobe we'll win anyway mentality. Then we declined Horry's team option and had an even weaker bench and he goes to San Antonio and provides some clutch playoff buckets like he always has for a couple more years. We made some good moves but also some lazy ones. Needed to try just as hard to stay on top as get to the top. I look at the Warriors and their management is never content. Keep their picks and even bought a second rounder to draft Bell. Always gotta have something cooking in the oven.
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#4 lakerfan98

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 06:54 PM

Regarding 2013 it's obvious in hindsight that Jim and Mitch were working from an old playbook. I agree should have traded Pau and retooled our roster didn't fit the coach we hired. Maybe do a trade with Houston independent from Chris Paul. Dragic, Martin, Scola.

In 2 years we've completely revamped the franchise from the top down and I'm excited to see what the future will bring.

#5 Massacre

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 08:26 PM

Buss/Kupchak getting canned was a necessary step in the right direction. Don’t think the Lakers are big players in FA with those 2 still here. Magic and Rob are refreshing...they have relationships with players. Magic is respected around the league and more importantly he’s liked.

My regret about that 12-13 season is how the Phil situation was handled. That wasn’t a good look. About the only thing I disagree with is that I think Phil wanted to come back. He came out and said he was shocked blah blah blah and how on that Monday he was preparing to come to LA, but they went with MDA on Sunday night. Even if the fit for the triangle wasn’t there, I trusted Phil better to manage the egos of Dwight and Kobe and keep Kobe in check. He wouldn’t have been playing 47+ minutes for the last 7-8 games. We probably see a more effective Kobe for 1-2 seasons, but that probably delays the rebuild in turn.

As much as the Kobe injury hurt, it was bad for his legacy, but it was necessary for the Lakers. They had no future. This gave them a reason to tank, and luckily (about the only positive thing he did during the end of his tenure) Kupchak has the sense to protect those picks unlike Billy King. We could be the Nets right now.

Good post, tho. Lakers will be back.
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#6 Massacre

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 08:30 PM

Magic has said some things that have convinced me these guys know what they’re doing. The Lakers draft well, they’re building the right culture, no laziness, those tapped in have said the front office values guys who are dedicated to staying in shape. They put a big emphasis on how prospects perform when they’re tired when they work them out. They’re doing the right things.

Boston has the right blueprint. Hopefully those post 2012-13 seasons are something we never have to go thru again.
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#7 DLN

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Posted June 04, 2018 - 08:43 PM

An underrated part of why that season went down the toilet was:

 

1. MDAs stubbornness - He didn't have the personnel and didn't adjust to what he had.

2. Mitch and Jim didn't get depth. We needed depth and defense and guys like Delonte West, Ronnie Brewer and Chris Anderson were available as unsigned free agents and would have gives us a needed boost that could have kept us afloat.



#8 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 05, 2018 - 12:53 AM

Kobe had so many classic games this season
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#9 Tensai

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Posted June 05, 2018 - 02:01 AM

Preseason

 

vs Warriors: No Dwight. Kobe, Pau, Nash didn't play in 2nd half when the Lakers were up. In 2nd half Warriors had blown us out.

vs Blazers: No Kobe, no Dwight. 

vs Jazz: No Dwight. Lakers were up 11 in 1st half. In 2nd half, Kobe and Nash very little.

vs Jazz: No Dwight. Nash played only 12 mins. Kanter and Jefferson ate Sacre alive who played 36 mins.

vs Kings: No Dwight. Kobe, Pau and Nash played over 28 mins. Sacre played 33 mins.

vs Kings: First game for Dwight.

vs Clippers: No Kobe, no Dwight.

vs Kings: No Kobe. Nash and Howard played limited minutes.

 

 

So after this 0-8 preseason start, the morale was down as I remember it. But people were hopeful that the squad was still in the process of meshing. Then the season started and we went 1-4 in first 5 games after which FO fired Mike Brown. IMO this is the beginning of the series of mistakes we have done. For one thing in regular season games we were playing good. We just turned the ball over a lot which was a sign of players getting used to each other. Second, Kobe and Pau played in Olympics that summer, therefore they didn't have enough rehabilitation period before the season. I remember Pau having foot injuries throughout November and December which made him look like a shell of himself.

 

Had we given them at least 15 games at that time to get used to each other, I certainly believe that the wins would have come in series because we were actually playing really good on offense. But for some odd reason FO were too impatient for wait-and-see approach, which was unlike anything Mitch has ever done. As fans we could only look at the results, but the management should have seen ahead of that.

 

After Mike Brown was dismissed, the FO was in panic mode with Jerry Buss health getting worse. And they committed one mistake after another.


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#10 LACAS

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Posted June 05, 2018 - 02:25 PM

So glad Jim and Mitch are no longer calling the shots...


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#11 LakerGeezer

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Posted June 07, 2018 - 05:00 PM

Wondering of some the same folks bagging on Mitch/ Jimmie now were supporting them back then.  



#12 LACAS

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Posted June 07, 2018 - 05:08 PM

Wondering of some the same folks bagging on Mitch/ Jimmie now were supporting them back then.  

 

They once had my support and at some point they lost my support with their moves or lack there of... its simple.


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#13 Julien

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Posted June 07, 2018 - 05:30 PM

Man... I moved to LA during summer 2012... I started all this lol

#14 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted June 07, 2018 - 08:55 PM

I’ll admit I was floored with D12 move and argued against it from the get go many of you told me we going to have a parade lol you were phools then and some still are! Now in position to show the world who Lakers are don’t abandon the growing youth just to get names Remember chemistry
It’s what makes championships!

Edited by DaSmoothOperator, June 07, 2018 - 08:55 PM.


#15 LakerGeezer

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Posted June 08, 2018 - 09:53 AM

I’ll admit I was floored with D12 move and argued against it from the get go many of you told me we going to have a parade lol you were phools then and some still are! Now in position to show the world who Lakers are don’t abandon the growing youth just to get names Remember chemistry
It’s what makes championships!

Only person I can recall that consistently bagged on Mitch and Jimmie in the moment was Fido, and you all treated him like your crazy uncle from Toledo.


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#16 lakerfan98

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Posted June 08, 2018 - 10:03 AM

I didn't have a problem rebuilding with Jim and Mitch but the Mozgov and Deng deals sealed their fate. Like a lot of other posters I rationalized the signings after a while but at the end of the day regardless of the state of the team a bad contract is still a bad contract.
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#17 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted June 08, 2018 - 01:24 PM

So glad Jim and Mitch are no longer calling the shots...

Amen to that!
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#18 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted June 08, 2018 - 03:01 PM

Praises to Rob n Magic we’re in position to do some damage!!




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