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2018 Lakers Free Agency/Trade Discussion


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#9721 LakeShow1o1

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 09:48 PM

I never directly compared the talent level our '06 young guys to our guys now.

 

All I'm saying is those of you wanting to wait to sign Leonard in FA are taking on 2 MASSIVE risks.

 

1) LeBron's decline

2) Leonard doesn't sign here in FA 

 

We literally just went through this with Paul George. 

 

And what I'm saying is, if you want to advocate waiting for free agency, then you believe that the young guy's near term potential outweighs these risks. Or you are not being cognizant of the situation as a whole.

 

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

1) His health is a HUGE concern and immediately makes it difficult to gauge his value. (He essentially missed the remainder of the 2017 post-season when he was the essential piece in the WCF.  He also missed 90% of the regular season this year).

 

2) You can trade for Kawhi, however there's NO GUARANTEE he re-signs.  Yes there has been lots of noise about how he wants to be in LA, however you never know a player's true intentions.  Kyrie left Lebron as soon as he got the chance, what makes you certain Kawhi wouldn't?  Remember that Kawhi has won already so is that his priority?  Or is his priority to establish his name and brand.

 

3) You proclaim that Ingram, Kuzma, or Zo will never reach Kawhi's caliber.  I agree, that is a very large leap and may never occur.  However, you can't guarantee that their combined production wouldn't be more beneficial.  The Warriors will always have more star-power.

 

4) With just Kawhi and Lebron, and a large part of the young core gone, where is your depth?  Everyone assumes that veterans will flock which is completely false. Guys that have joined Lebron include Birdman, Mike Miller, Richard Jefferson, James Jones and Deron Williams all of whom were trash and essentially useless. The only notable signing was Ray Allen and even he was at the back-back-back end of his  career. 

 

Again, I'm all for trading just Ingram / Hart / and picks.  However anything more than that is simply foolish.


Edited by LakeShow1o1, July 15, 2018 - 09:54 PM.

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#9722 GCMD

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 09:53 PM

I've gone on record numerous times stating that I'd gladly give up just 1 of the young guys alongside Hart and a pick or 2.  

However, anything more than that, especially considering the reported Spurs asking price of (Ingram / Kuzma / Hart / 2 1st round picks / 2 pick swaps) is most certainly depleting our assets.

 

Again, we've gone back and fourth about this topic numerous times with numerous people. 

Believe what you want and we can agree to disagree.  Bottom line is with how things have currently played out and with the way things are looking, it doesn't seem as though Magic and Pelinka are planning on giving up much.

 

I don't understand what bothers you about me challenging your stance.  It's seriously not personal and it's not that big of a deal.

 

We don't know what Magic and Pelinka will give up until Kawhi is traded.  If it's to the Lakers, we will have our answer.  If it's somewhere else, I'm sure a reporter will tell us why it wasn't to the Lakers...

 

My stance is there is nothing we could give up that would be better than having Kawhi/LeBron.  If we didn't have LeBron or LeBron was 28 instead of 33, I honestly would have to agree with you.  Waiting would be worth the risk.

 

My question to you is why die on this hill?  Ingram/Picks or Ingram/Kuzma/Hart and picks...does it really matter?  We're talking about 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA on the same team...

 

I could understand if LeBron went to Philly.  Getting Kawhi by himself won't beat GSW...but since we have LeBron, why wait and take the risk of not getting Kawhi?

 

Do you think Kawhi's not worth what SAS is asking for?

Do you think we could get ANY top 10 player for that package?

 

I get the leverage.  I get the "Kawhi health" thing.  I even get the "what if they blow up" thing.  I just don't see any of them as outweighing what could be a once in a LIFETIME pairing.

 

If you choose not to respond, I understand.  Just making conversation with a fellow fan...


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#9723 bfc1125roy

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:00 PM

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

1) His health is a HUGE concern and immediately makes it difficult to gauge his value. (He essentially missed the remainder of the 2017 post-season when he was the essential piece in the WCF.  He also missed 90% of the regular season this year).

 

If we trade for him we get to do a medical eval, so it's a moot point. I've also discussed in detail how his injury (quadriceps tendinitis) is not as big of a deal as some here are making it out to be.

 

2) You can trade for Kawhi, however there's NO GUARANTEE he re-signs.  Yes there has been lots of noise about how he wants to be in LA, however you never know a player's true intentions.  Kyrie left Lebron as soon as he got the chance, what makes you certain Kawhi wouldn't?  Remember that Kawhi has won already so is that his priority?  Or is his priority of establish his name and brand, something he wouldn't be able to do with Lebron in control.

 

If we had traded for George last year he likely resigns. But once we didn't, the thought of the Lakers left his mind and he found a home in OKC. Right now Leonard is reportedly only likely to resign with an LA team. While he feels that way, we should grab him. Otherwise we risk him getting traded to some place like Philly, liking it there, and then staying. I will agree there is definitely the chance he doesn't resign, but I think its more likely he resigns if we trade for him than him signing as an FA if we don't trade for him

 

3) You proclaim that Ingram, Kuzma, or Zo will never reach Kawhi's caliber.  I agree, that is a very large leap and may never occur.  However, you can't guarantee that their combined production wouldn't be more beneficial.  The Warriors will always have more star-power.

 

You're missing the element of time. Even if Ingram and Kuzma both become top 10 players in the league in 3-4 years, it doesn't matter, because at that point we've lost LeBron's prime, and he's probably on his way out. Leonard is what we need right now. This team is built defense-first, and he's one of the best in the league. Also, he is versatile, and can shoulder the offensive load from LeBron. Ingram and Kuzma combined will not get us DPOY level defense + 25 ppg as a primary option.

 

4) With just Kawhi and Lebron, and a large part of the young core gone, where is your depth?  Everyone assumes that veterans will flock which is completely false. Guys that have joined Lebron include Birdman, Mike Miller, Richard Jefferson, James Jones and Deron Williams all of whom were trash and essentially useless. The only notable signing was Ray Allen and even he was at the back-back-back end of his  career. 

 

I'm not asking to trade Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, Lonzo, Zubac, Wagner, and Svi. If we trade 2 of them, we have more than enough depth, especially at 1-3, to be okay. And we will get veterans for cheap. The Warriors do this exact thing with guys like David West. Plus we can buy draft picks in the second round like they do. 

 

Again, I'm all for trading just Ingram / Hart / and picks.  However anything more than that is simply foolish.

 

The Spurs reported ask with the pick swaps is too much, IMO, just because I think we can talk them down more. We should negotiate as much as possible, because they HAVE to trade him before the season starts (he won't come to camp). If they trade him to a team that's not the Lakers, then we are entering dangerous territory. 


Edited by bfc1125roy, July 15, 2018 - 10:02 PM.

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#9724 GCMD

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:12 PM

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

1) His health is a HUGE concern and immediately makes it difficult to gauge his value. (He essentially missed the remainder of the 2017 post-season when he was the essential piece in the WCF.  He also missed 90% of the regular season this year).

 

 
Paul George broke his leg into pieces in August 2014.  He played 6 games in 14-15.  He played 81 games in 15-16.  In 17-18, we were BEGGING for him to come to the Lakers.
 
Add to that, people have reported that Kawhi is healthy but he doesn't want the Spurs anywhere near his medicals.
 
And Ingram only played 59 games this year...sat out due to injury...if you're worried about Kawhi, be worried about underweight Ingram.
 

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

 

2) You can trade for Kawhi, however there's NO GUARANTEE he re-signs.  Yes there has been lots of noise about how he wants to be in LA, however you never know a player's true intentions.  Kyrie left Lebron as soon as he got the chance, what makes you certain Kawhi wouldn't?  Remember that Kawhi has won already so is that his priority?  Or is his priority of establish his name and brand, something he wouldn't be able to do with Lebron in control.

 

If Kawhi doesn't really want to be in LA, why not accept a trade elsewhere?

 

28 teams outside of LA want Kawhi.  Your explanation for why NONE of them have put together a package better than "not Ingram", which is what some believe the Lakers have offered?  BOS, Philly and TOR could offer a better package than Ingram/Hart/picks and still have really good teams.

 

Guess Kawhi just wants to hurt the Lakers by forcing us to give up stuff to get him and not re-signing?  Really

 

 

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

 

3) You proclaim that Ingram, Kuzma, or Zo will never reach Kawhi's caliber.  I agree, that is a very large leap and may never occur.  However, you can't guarantee that their combined production wouldn't be more beneficial.  The Warriors will always have more star-power.

 
If we swap those guys, we still have a max slot available next year.
 
LeBron/Kawhi/3rd star will always eclipse anything Ingram/Kuzma will contribute.
 
And if you're worried about GSW, HOU, with less star power than GSW, took them to 7 games.  I can make a VERY good case that if CP3 was healthy in game 7, HOU would be NBA Champions right now.  2 great stars is what we need, not 5 great stars.  Ingram/Kuzma/Hart = 0 great stars.
 
 

Those of you whom are so gung-ho about dealing for Kawhi also conveniently fail to understand or pinpoint the fact that...

 

 

 

4) With just Kawhi and Lebron, and a large part of the young core gone, where is your depth?  Everyone assumes that veterans will flock which is completely false. Guys that have joined Lebron include Birdman, Mike Miller, Richard Jefferson, James Jones and Deron Williams all of whom were trash and essentially useless. The only notable signing was Ray Allen and even he was at the back-back-back end of his  career. 

 

 

You're not trading away players that play different positions and remember by DEPTH, you're talking about who plays the 12-16mpg that LeBron/Kawhi are off the floor...and it's not likely both are off the floor very often.  So depth?  If we were talking about other positions, maybe...

 

Shaq/Kobe...who played behind either?

 

TD/Robinson...who played behind either?

 

Magic/Kareem...who played behind either?

 

LeBron/Kyrie...who played behind either?

 

Exactly.  You're blowing that point WAY out of proportion.  Ingram is a 3 and Kuzma is a 4.  Kawhi is a 3 and LeBron is a 4.  Lose Ingram/Kuzma and we're still good, bro.

 

 

Again, I'm all for trading just Ingram / Hart / and picks.  However anything more than that is simply foolish.

 

Foolish?  LOL...what's foolish is passing on getting Kawhi for a package that could not get players MUCH WORSE than Kawhi right now.

 

What's foolish is dying on the hill of "Ingram or Kuzma" when you can have LeBron and Kawhi.

 

What's foolish is pretending we'd be giving up more than Kawhi's worth if we offered Ingram and Kuzma.

 

 

Think about this:  The people who talk on air about us not giving up too much for Kawhi?  Are they Lakers fans?  For the most part, NO.  Maybe they don't want to see LeBron and Kawhi together on the Lakers!!!!!


Edited by GCMD, July 15, 2018 - 10:14 PM.

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#9725 MambaMentality

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:20 PM

https://twitter.com/...617458368737280



#9726 GCMD

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:23 PM

 

prince_showclip_pic_042916_1280Copy.jpg

 

+

 

 

chappelle-explains.jpg

 

=

 

 

DiLa_64VMAESLqc.jpg

 

 

LOL

 

 

Once you see it, you can't un-see it...


Edited by GCMD, July 15, 2018 - 10:24 PM.

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#9727 MambaMentality

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:38 PM

man, this was what i thought of the second i saw ingram today. someone else beat me to the meme though. guess i'll never be famous :(

 

 

LOL

 

 

Once you see it, you can't un-see it...


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#9728 DLN

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:50 PM

The best way to create a contender is to sign Durant next summer. If he wins his third title perhaps he's ready to move on. Also they cant max out all three.
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#9729 bfc1125roy

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 10:53 PM

The best way to create a contender is to sign Durant next summer. If he wins his third title perhaps he's ready to move on. Also they cant max out all three.

 

Don't think he's going anywhere. He's undoubtedly a top 10 player of all time if they win 4-5 straight with him as Finals MVP. Possibly even top 5 ever if he gets 5 in a row. 

 

Klay has also said he has no interest in leaving. I could see him taking less money to make it work with the cap.

 

Warriors will be scary for a while. But they are vulnerable. We saw that with the Rockets last season. Plus Iggy is getting older, and they will have a hard time replacing his defense + facilitating for cheap (remember he was the one who usually guarded guys like LeBron, not Draymond or Durant).


Edited by bfc1125roy, July 15, 2018 - 10:54 PM.

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#9730 GCMD

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 11:02 PM

The best way to create a contender is to sign Durant next summer. If he wins his third title perhaps he's ready to move on. Also they cant max out all three.

 

Never happen.  People would literally put out a hit on KD.  He'd EASILY be the most hated player of the past 20 years, far exceeding anything Kobe went through.

 

I'd love to see it though...LeBron, Kawhi and KD on the same team?  GSW who?


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#9731 DLN

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Posted July 15, 2018 - 11:50 PM

Never happen. People would literally put out a hit on KD. He'd EASILY be the most hated player of the past 20 years, far exceeding anything Kobe went through.

I'd love to see it though...LeBron, Kawhi and KD on the same team? GSW who?


He's the 4th most liked player on that team. Will never get full credit and GS wont be able to keep the big for. In LA he would get it All.

#9732 GCMD

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 12:14 AM

He's the 4th most liked player on that team. Will never get full credit and GS wont be able to keep the big for. In LA he would get it All.

 

Oh, you don't have to sell me on KD to LA...I'm all for it.  I just don't see that ever happening.  I think there's a greater chance that Kyrie and LeBron patch things up and Kyrie ends up a Laker next summer than KD leaving GSW.  Could KD leave?  Sure...but why?  Because he doesn't get the credit he wants or deserves?  I'd have to see it to believe it.  That team goes to war for each other.  I don't think KD will care what other people think more than what his team thinks.


Edited by GCMD, July 16, 2018 - 12:15 AM.

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#9733 DLN

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 12:38 AM

Oh, you don't have to sell me on KD to LA...I'm all for it.  I just don't see that ever happening.  I think there's a greater chance that Kyrie and LeBron patch things up and Kyrie ends up a Laker next summer than KD leaving GSW.  Could KD leave?  Sure...but why?  Because he doesn't get the credit he wants or deserves?  I'd have to see it to believe it.  That team goes to war for each other.  I don't think KD will care what other people think more than what his team thinks.

 

I think it's possible and i think there is a decent chance it happens.

 

KD will always take a back-seat to those other guys in GS and he'll always be remembered as the guy who joined the 73-win team. That's part of the reason. The other part - and most important part - is that they cant afford to keep their big 4 together long term.

 

No, just pencil it in right now. He's joining Lebron in LA in 2019.



#9734 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 03:20 AM

Ya too concerned with getting names and not establishing a team. Guys that would lay down their lives for each other we have some young ones now and you can’t get youth but once try to be more patient and have faith in our front office and our suberb scouting staff! Now as for KD I don’t see him leaving GSW with Curry and Dramont still there Klay could leave but unlikely GSW has a tough job coming up! We’ll be ready GO Lakers!!!

Edited by DaSmoothOperator, July 16, 2018 - 03:23 AM.


#9735 Miggs

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 05:26 AM

He's the 4th most liked player on that team. Will never get full credit and GS wont be able to keep the big for. In LA he would get it All.

from what I been hearing warriors ready to pay 1billion in luxury taxes. Silicon Valley money
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#9736 LACAS

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 05:36 AM

 

 

Did Nogueira get moved?



#9737 BasketballIQ

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 08:07 AM

from what I been hearing warriors ready to pay 1billion in luxury taxes. Silicon Valley money

Lol

Don't be naive

#9738 LakeShow1o1

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 09:25 AM

 

 

 

 
Paul George broke his leg into pieces in August 2014.  He played 6 games in 14-15.  He played 81 games in 15-16.  In 17-18, we were BEGGING for him to come to the Lakers.
 
Add to that, people have reported that Kawhi is healthy but he doesn't want the Spurs anywhere near his medicals.
 
And Ingram only played 59 games this year...sat out due to injury...if you're worried about Kawhi, be worried about underweight Ingram.

 

 

- What does begging Paul George to sign outright have to do with anything?  He played last season, and the seasons before that and proved that he is still capable of playing at a perennial All-Star level post-injury.  Of course you'd want a guy like that on your roster to sign with your team.  It's completely different than trading for an injured player that hasn't played all season.

 

- I am concerned with Ingram's weight.  Dude is still a twig and doesn't look as though he's gained much weight since the season began.  The 59 games doesn't concern me much though.  The Lakers were extremely cautious with all the young guys and seemed to sit them for even the slightest of injuries.  He's still young (only 7 weeks older than Lonzo), hopefully his body fills in sooner rather than later.

 

 

- I'm not even sure what you're getting at here.  Not every team in this league wants Kawhi because not every team in this league (if any) is willing to give up assets for a 1-year rental.  That's the obvious reason as to why the Spurs haven't gotten any decent trade packages.  Teams aren't risking and gambling away their future for a rental.  Kawhi doesn't want to hurt us nor anything of that matter, not sure where you're getting that from.  

 

- The Rockets certainly gave the Warriors a run for their money but it was in large part due to DEPTH and DEFENSIVE VERSATILITY/PRESSURE, not Star play.  I agree that had CP3 played game 7, you certainly can make an argument that the Rockets would have won.  However, again, it was the DEPTH and contribution of the Rockets role players that made the difference.  In a majority of the games, only 1 of two (Chris Paul and James Harden) would have a decent and efficient game.  Looking back at the series, CP3 and Harden were very inconsistent and underwhelming at times.  The only time both players produced well together was in games 1 (loss) and game 3 (win).  In their other key wins, it was the role players that contributed.

 

Game 2:

28019bt.png

 

Game 3:

2va1rf9.png

 

Game 4:

rwo4ls.png

 

- Depth now is much different in comparison to the teams and eras that you provided.  There's no point in comparing the landscape, style of play, and composition of the league now to what it was in those eras.  Positionless basketball wasn't a thing then.  And I assure you, each of those championship teams had depth and key role players that I shouldn't even have to mention.  Anywho...  Ingram is not just a 3, and Kuzma is not just a 4.  Magic and Rob have both emphasized the fact that both guys are extremely versatile and can play/guard multiple positions.  If anything, having Ingram and Kuzma next to guys like Lebron and Kawhi would  be perfect because you could essentially start all 4 together with a lineup like: Ball / Leonard / Kuzma / Lebron / 5.  That's the beauty of it... 

 

 

Again, AGREE TO DISAGREE.  Neither of us are budging from our point of views and both of us have valid opinions that generally root from hypothetical scenarios that can't be determined or calculated unless one of us have a time machine and can predict the future.



#9739 Miggs

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 09:26 AM

Lol

Don't be naive

right don’t expect klay or kd on the lakers just don’t
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#9740 Jody Smokes

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Posted July 16, 2018 - 10:35 AM

Im calling it now.  KD is leaving the Warriors after this year regardless of the outcome.  They also won't have Boogie's bird rights, so if he returns to form they have no way of resigning him either.  I believe Klay is extended with good money and they return to the their original form of Steph/Klay/Dray and pieces around them that fit.  They'll still be an amazing team. 


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