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2018 Lakers Free Agency/Trade Discussion


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#3181 BasketballIQ

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 01:54 PM

I mean for [expletive] and giggles who is still taking Lonzo over Tatum or Mitchell knowing what we do now?

Me for sure.

Lonzo defense is key.

Melo vs J Kidd?

I like Kidd

Im not quite sure what Mitchell is yet. Maybe D Wade with a better jumper but less Chi town street ( hear and toughness) but remember Tyreke Evans was 20 5 5 as a rookie.

#3182 GCMD

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 03:18 PM

SIAP:  I thought this was interesting and aligns with some of the thoughts expressed on this board.   In short: if we gain 2 stars and lose Randle in the process, that's okay.   But, if we blow it with Randle and strike-out on star players, then it's a bad look.

 

 

https://www.hoopsrum...les-lakers.html

 

 

Julius Randle, C, 23 (Up) – Signed to a four-year, $14MM deal in 2014
Watching the Lakers mishandle Randle over the course of the past two seasons would have been outright inexcusable if they didn’t have a legitimate chance of landing a premier free agent or two this summer. They do, so we’ll let them off the hook, but if any other franchise were to drag an absolute workhorse through the mud for two seasons just because they wanted to keep their options open for free agency, we’d be laughing at them. Randle, a restricted free agent, is going to get paid this offseason and he should, my only hope – for the sake of the young man’s dignity – is that it comes from an organization that hasn’t made it abundantly clear that he’s a third or fourth priority. Fun prediction: Randle makes an All-Star team before any of Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram or Kyle Kuzma.

 

 

This is funny because Randle is the ONLY person who mishandled his career thus far.  It's not like the Lakers could have stopped him from dominating down low or forced him to take those ill-advised 3's he would take.  The Lakers didn't force Randle to go away from what made him a Championship Runner-Up at UK.

 

Randle's game is just now getting back to what it was and should have been and the only person who is to blame for that is Randle.  If anything, the Lakers should be angry that Randle didn't show this type of game and production from Day 1.  He added nothing to his game so it's not like it took 4 years to mature into the player he is.

 

I agree with LS101...$15M/y is the max I'd be willing to pay Randle.  If he gets offered more than that, Deuces.  As strong as Randle's game is in the post, he's not worth anything more than that to a team trying to find it's identity and build a well-balanced team.  If we had 2 Franchise Level Players like Philly and was trying to surround them with complementary players?  Sure.  But spending too much for a player that you don't think will be a centerpiece of your Franchise?  NOPE.

 

Doesn't matter if we get PG13, LeBron/PG13, LeBron or no one.  Overspending for role players like Randle before you have Franchise Players is a move backwards, not forwards.


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#3183 KidRN

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 03:29 PM

Me for sure.
Lonzo defense is key.
Melo vs J Kidd?
I like Kidd
Im not quite sure what Mitchell is yet. Maybe D Wade with a better jumper but less Chi town street ( hear and toughness) but remember Tyreke Evans was 20 5 5 as a rookie.

Laker fan logic...

Who cares how bad Lonzo plays it is only his first season.

Mitchell played well and took his team to the playoffs but remember Tyreke's first season stats?

All current youth that are playing well will only be 3rd option players at best. But Lonzo will overcome all flaws and be a top 5 point guard of all time!

Edited by KidRN, May 15, 2018 - 03:30 PM.

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#3184 GCMD

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 03:41 PM

Laker fan logic...

Who cares how bad Lonzo plays it is only his first season.

Mitchell played well and took his team to the playoffs but remember Tyreke's first season stats?

All current youth that are playing well will only be 3rd option players at best. But Lonzo will overcome all flaws and be a top 5 point guard of all time!

 

 

I get what you're saying.

 

I want to offer a different view:

 

Tatum, Simmons, Mitchell all had close to best case scenario rookie seasons.

Lonzo did not.

 

Lonzo still had a positive effect on the team and showed what he could do if this team is built in a manner that hides his weaknesses while enhances his strengths.  IMHO, all of the other 3 have that which contributed to how they looked AND what their potential is going forward.

 

Who thinks Mitchell or Tatum have a lot more upside to show in the future?  I don't.  Even Simmons.  Lonzo?  I don't think he scratched the surface of his potential yet.



#3185 GCMD

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 03:58 PM

OT:

 

Sportsbetting seems sleazy and the Sports Organizations should not be involved in changing legislation.


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#3186 KidRN

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 05:03 PM

I get what you're saying.
 
I want to offer a different view:
 
Tatum, Simmons, Mitchell all had close to best case scenario rookie seasons.
Lonzo did not.
 
Lonzo still had a positive effect on the team and showed what he could do if this team is built in a manner that hides his weaknesses while enhances his strengths.  IMHO, all of the other 3 have that which contributed to how they looked AND what their potential is going forward.
 
Who thinks Mitchell or Tatum have a lot more upside to show in the future?  I don't.  Even Simmons.  Lonzo?  I don't think he scratched the surface of his potential yet.

That doesn't mean he will be better than any of them. I think Simmons will get much better.

#3187 Jody Smokes

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 05:22 PM

I think Simmons is the best of the bunch for some obvious reasons but I think it's waaaaaaay too early in the game to act like Lonzo can't improve and the others will be that much better.  Situation matters.  

 

Let's just say Tatum and Brown vs Ingram and Kuzma.  I think the fact that the Celtics are in the playoffs gives them a boost in the eyes of fans b/c the team is winning.  However, neither of them were required to be the 2nd or even 3rd best players on the team for a bulk of the season.  Boston also has an established culture with Stevens.  

 

I think if LA pulls off signing Paul George they are what Boston is this year next year.  The final result may not be the same but the gritty and good and deep team that can ball with almost any team on any night is the team I believe they'll be.  Maybe that doesnt beat GS, but at this point who the [expletive] is?  After 5 seasons out of the playoffs I just want the team to be good again.  I'll hope for a ring later.  


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#3188 GCMD

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 06:06 PM

That doesn't mean he will be better than any of them. I think Simmons will get much better.

 

 

Nope...it doesn't mean he will be better.  It does mean his floor isn't as low as it could have been.

 

 

 

Perfect example is Kuzma.  He ended up in the perfect situation for his skillset.  IMHO, he was closer to his absolute best case scenario this season.  Does that mean his floor is lower or his ceiling is higher?  Nope.

 

 

Simmons, Tatum and Mitchell played 81, 80 and 79 regular season games (respectively).

Lonzo Ball played 52.

 

 

Nothing about this year was ideal for Lonzo.  Injuries, roster, lack of Franchise level talent (Embiid, Kyrie), lack of DPOY candidate (Embiid, Gobert) and lack of established identity limited his potential.

 

I'm not claiming Lonzo is guaranteed to be better than any of them in the future.  I'm just providing context which is important.   It's not as simple as "this guy is a better or worse player than this other guy" based on their rookie stats in isolation.


Edited by GCMD, May 15, 2018 - 06:06 PM.

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#3189 Tensai

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 06:08 PM

Both Tatum and Brown are legit. Both were #3 picks, and both seem to outplay their age. We can discuss the reasons all day, in the end only the end product matters.


Edited by Tensai, May 15, 2018 - 06:08 PM.

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#3190 JayTheGreat

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 07:11 PM

Both Tatum and Brown are legit. Both were #3 picks, and both seem to outplay their age. We can discuss the reasons all day, in the end only the end product matters.


Man when they get Kyrie and Hayward back holy [expletive] Boston is going to be scary.

#3191 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted May 15, 2018 - 08:27 PM

I remember when Jaylen couldn't shoot for ish. A couple seasons later, look at him. The same can almost be said about Marcus Smart. Same knock on him too. What a difference a season or two makes
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#3192 bfc1125roy

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 01:24 AM

Tatum and Mitchell will be great players. I think that they will likely be all stars and Mitchell might even be a superstar... who knows. Both have impressed me in the playoffs.

 

Lonzo's case is different. We knew he was not as NBA ready as the other two. Great court vision, but he needs to work on his strength, shooting, etc. However his ceiling is why he was drafted so high, and he has the potential to be one of the best facilitating PGs in the NBA and a multiple time all star.

 

All of these guys will likely be amazing NBA players. No need to get caught up in the small details.



#3193 bfc1125roy

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 01:25 AM

I think Simmons is the best of the bunch for some obvious reasons but I think it's waaaaaaay too early in the game to act like Lonzo can't improve and the others will be that much better.  Situation matters.  

 

Let's just say Tatum and Brown vs Ingram and Kuzma.  I think the fact that the Celtics are in the playoffs gives them a boost in the eyes of fans b/c the team is winning.  However, neither of them were required to be the 2nd or even 3rd best players on the team for a bulk of the season.  Boston also has an established culture with Stevens.  

 

I think if LA pulls off signing Paul George they are what Boston is this year next year.  The final result may not be the same but the gritty and good and deep team that can ball with almost any team on any night is the team I believe they'll be.  Maybe that doesnt beat GS, but at this point who the [expletive] is?  After 5 seasons out of the playoffs I just want the team to be good again.  I'll hope for a ring later.  

 

This is the Lakers. Our only goal should be rings. If you're looking to be the fan of a team that will win a lot of games and make the playoffs but not be in championship contention - might I suggest the Raptors. 

 

Everyone thinking that PG + a few young guys will be enough to up our win total to sneak into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed is being small minded. This is a franchise that doesn't hang division banners. You have to think big and go for it all. I'm glad that's the vision our FO has with Magic at the helm. Other teams worry about winning games to get butts in seats in a small market so they make enough money. We don't have that problem - we should be gunning for something greater. 

 

We should design our team to beat GS. Just like the Heat were designed to dethrone the Lakers and Celtics. And how the Warriors changed their style of play to beat all these PnR + ISO heavy teams. 


Edited by bfc1125roy, May 16, 2018 - 01:30 AM.


#3194 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 02:00 AM

I think the goal is rings. Laker fans are spoiled and want it their way but quicker than a Snapchat. It takes time with the build and some already knew it would.

Each off season it's been the same. Cap space and hope. Magic steps in and it is slowly improving, just not as fast as fans want it to go. Lakers can't just go ABC and boom, contenders again. I do believe the Lakers will improve this off season with this office.

I hope that a super star(s) or star(s) free agent(s) sees the Lakers an up and coming and takes the max money or a portion of it, I hope they make the right moves to improve the roster to get into the playoffs and I hope they drop Deng and his ugly contract (real talk) Nobody wants conference banners here, but you have to start somewhere
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#3195 Jody Smokes

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 04:18 AM

So what did you do in the seasons where LA didn't win or couldn't win?  Cry? Didn't watch? Cuz between 05-08 LA wasn't winning [expletive]

 

This is the Lakers. Our only goal should be rings. If you're looking to be the fan of a team that will win a lot of games and make the playoffs but not be in championship contention - might I suggest the Raptors. 

 

Everyone thinking that PG + a few young guys will be enough to up our win total to sneak into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed is being small minded. This is a franchise that doesn't hang division banners. You have to think big and go for it all. I'm glad that's the vision our FO has with Magic at the helm. Other teams worry about winning games to get butts in seats in a small market so they make enough money. We don't have that problem - we should be gunning for something greater. 

 

We should design our team to beat GS. Just like the Heat were designed to dethrone the Lakers and Celtics. And how the Warriors changed their style of play to beat all these PnR + ISO heavy teams. 


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#3196 UKUGA

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 04:26 AM

Lets just say all we get this summer is PG; will you guys be satisfied, excited or disappointed?

 

If all we got is PG do you make any other major moves this summer or do you roll with the kids this year and shoot for summer of 2019?

 

I will take him gladly.

 

Not only do we add the best player we've had since Kobe ruptured his Achilles, but he would also be leaving OKC, and not joining Houston, or Philly (perhaps with Lebron or Kawhi).


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Don't feed the trolls. 


#3197 UKUGA

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 04:30 AM

You guys are missing the key point here: Tatum came into a SYSTEM

 

The reason Pop has transitioned the Spurs between eras so well and gotten the best out of his role players is that he plugs guys into his system right away. He already has a blueprint for what his offense and defense looks like. A new guy comes in, he will tell him EXACTLY what his role is, no less and no more. It's like fitting puzzle pieces together in a sense.

 

Brad Stevens has done the same thing with Tatum. He's developed his system over the years, and now he can tell Tatum hey I need you to just FOCUS on these key things. Think only about those and do them well. And that's why he's gotten the best out of his guys. GSW has done the same as they've gone through role players over the years. Even guys like Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, or Nate Robinson, at one point were just told to come off the bench and score as much as possible, and that's it. They did that very well and it lead to success. 

 

If we had drafted Tatum he would not have performed nearly as well. This is my biggest issue with Luke, we don't have a system. We freelance on offense and try to run PnR when we can, and rely on individual talent to score in ISO situations like Randle bully ball. He will need to develop a system to maximize what we get out of our guys, and it starts with Lonzo Ball. I mean just think about what Pop or Stevens could do with a guy like Josh Hart - a perfect system player. 

 

Also keep in mind what GCMD said: Tatum is more NBA ready. Ball and even Ingram for example had a lot of work to do with their bodies. Tatum is stronger than them and can handle the rigor of an 82 game season better. It's not the biggest deal though, as like I said earlier a lot of guys in the NBA come in with this exact problem, what do you expect from a freshman in college after all? 

 

Of course if we get LBJ, PG, and Leonard, they're good enough to where a system doesn't matter as much. 

 

Celtics have the best coach and a great system.   I expected Tatum to have a nice rookie year, and unlike most other lotto rookies, he went to a contender, so he's getting to play in big games (which makes him stand out more).

 

Of course, without Kyrie and Hayward, he's having to do more, but again, not really a surprise.  Brad Stevens is an amazing coach.  He puts guys in a position to be successful. 

 

Just look at what happened with the pieces they traded for Kyrie.

 

People are going to be afraid to deal with the Celtics going forward.  


Edited by UKUGA, May 16, 2018 - 04:31 AM.

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Don't feed the trolls. 


#3198 Jody Smokes

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 05:01 AM

Exactly.  Only Lakers fans think that after 5 losing seasons that a championship is the only acceptable accolade next year barring signing Lebron and PG.  I get it if you make those signings but outside of that just be happy the team is competitive again and then go from there.  Looking for progress doesn't mean you are cool with winning division banners. 

 

I hope all that have those weird expectations are as great in your private lives.

 

I think the goal is rings. Laker fans are spoiled and want it their way but quicker than a Snapchat. It takes time with the build and some already knew it would.

Each off season it's been the same. Cap space and hope. Magic steps in and it is slowly improving, just not as fast as fans want it to go. Lakers can't just go ABC and boom, contenders again. I do believe the Lakers will improve this off season with this office.

I hope that a super star(s) or star(s) free agent(s) sees the Lakers an up and coming and takes the max money or a portion of it, I hope they make the right moves to improve the roster to get into the playoffs and I hope they drop Deng and his ugly contract (real talk) Nobody wants conference banners here, but you have to start somewhere


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#3199 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 10:44 AM

Totally agree not seeing him as a top tier player but a very valuable piece similar to Dray with Warriors if he progresses. Let’s get it on!

#3200 DaSmoothOperator

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Posted May 16, 2018 - 11:02 AM

I’m I don’t see Brad Stevens as a “great” coach but a very good one certainly, enduring and adapting to roster changes esp star players out gives him big ups but I see the present Lakersbeating these Cavs that have no D or inspired players except non hoop plays check JR’s stats he should be benched or waived, drinking Henny right after a game is not good preparation for the series imo. Well I’ll be watching the draft not just for Laker picks but competitors as well. If our choices equal the recent past we’re on greAt shape Zubic future is on his hands but we’ll still need another center and 3 point shooters to maximize Lonzo’s talents and he’llneed To strengthen hisbodyand offense to be a more complete player




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