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Making the same mistakes with Lonzo


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#1 GCMD

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 03:24 AM

IMHO, and I stress OPINION, the Lakers are making the same mistake with Lonzo as we did with D'Angelo.  He should have absolutely no pressure to create his own shot and no expectations as far as scoring at this point in his career.

 

IMHO, Lonzo should be trying to push the pace and get the Lakers to play faster and more efficient, something we've seen...but still need to play faster until everyone is comfortable where they need to be and when they need to be there.

 

Lakers have to get Lonzo easy looks at the rim by running some set plays for him on and off the ball in the half court.  A few backdoor lobs and a few double on-ball screens to set up Lonzo's ability to make plays and create the right tempo in half court sets.

 

 

I'm not going to make this too long so I'll just say this:

 

 

Lakers traded away D'Angelo to create space for Lonzo for a reason.  It's not to see scoring pressure be placed on our PG again and it's not to turn him into a scoring PG.  It's for his passing and leadership.  if they wanted shooting and scoring, they could have taken a guy like Dennis Smith Jr but that's not the goal here.  Lakers want Showtime?  You don't need Lonzo to be a scorer to get there.  I hope they resist the temptation to make the same mistake over again.


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#2 DanishLakerFan

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 06:05 AM

The biggest mistake with D_Lo was that he was held to an unfairly high standard.

 

Ingram could go 3 for 15 or 1 for 3 and that was completely ok, whereas D-Lo seemingly couldn't do anything right. Not sure how much of that was due to his personality, but it sure as hell wasn't fair.

 

With Lonzo the expectations are higher than with Ingram, but people should relax with the shooting. It'll come around.

 

 

Generally, with rookies its wise to have a bit of patience.


Edited by DanishLakerFan, November 12, 2017 - 06:08 AM.


#3 kball

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 06:27 AM

IMHO, and I stress OPINION, the Lakers are making the same mistake with Lonzo as we did with D'Angelo.  He should have absolutely no pressure to create his own shot and no expectations as far as scoring at this point in his career.

 

IMHO, Lonzo should be trying to push the pace and get the Lakers to play faster and more efficient, something we've seen...but still need to play faster until everyone is comfortable where they need to be and when they need to be there.

 

Lakers have to get Lonzo easy looks at the rim by running some set plays for him on and off the ball in the half court.  A few backdoor lobs and a few double on-ball screens to set up Lonzo's ability to make plays and create the right tempo in half court sets.

 

 

I'm not going to make this too long so I'll just say this:

 

 

Lakers traded away D'Angelo to create space for Lonzo for a reason.  It's not to see scoring pressure be placed on our PG again and it's not to turn him into a scoring PG.  It's for his passing and leadership.  if they wanted shooting and scoring, they could have taken a guy like Dennis Smith Jr but that's not the goal here.  Lakers want Showtime?  You don't need Lonzo to be a scorer to get there.  I hope they resist the temptation to make the same mistake over again.

NOBBYOAHH

(No Offense Bro But Your Opinions Are Hardly Humble!)

 

IMO You need Lonzo to be a 'threat' to score from inside and out

mid 30's from 3

60% in paint

50% between the 2

 

I also don't doubt he will become that, but its not teams (or Lonzos) first priority i would agree with you there for sure


Edited by kball, November 12, 2017 - 06:29 AM.

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Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#4 GCMD

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 07:25 AM

NOBBYOAHH

(No Offense Bro But Your Opinions Are Hardly Humble!)

 

IMO You need Lonzo to be a 'threat' to score from inside and out

mid 30's from 3

60% in paint

50% between the 2

 

I also don't doubt he will become that, but its not teams (or Lonzos) first priority i would agree with you there for sure

 

 

 

IMHO, you're wrong and I'm ALWAYS humble...LOL.

 

As for your stats, if I provide you with an example of ANY PLAYER that didn't have 1 of these and was a threat to score inside and out, wouldn't that disprove your unreasonably high expectations?

 

We knew what we were getting into.  We knew Lonzo wasn't going to light the world on fire as a scorer, nor did that stop us from drafting him ahead of D Fox, Jayson Tatum, Dennis Smith Jr or Josh Jackson.  We didn't draft him for that.

 

As for your assessment of what we need as far as him being a threat, IMHO, that shows a lack understanding of how this offense works.  It's based on motion principles and has a lot of moving (for lack of a better word) parts that just have to work together.

 

IMHO, Lonzo should try to push the tempo MORE and let the offense take care of itself.  Try to average 15apg, not 20ppg.  If he does that, everything else falls into place for us.


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#5 kball

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 08:01 AM

^

Yeah i agree about the 15, and not needing 20.

Our whole team is made up of players bunched around 15 ppg.

 

Next year i doubt thats the case (hopefully 2 20ppg scorers) but this season i doubt we have any player reach 18.

 

Also feel Lonzo gets to numbers i threw out there last post by maybe year 3 or 4.

 

He has trouble getting by his man but for a rookie, i find him clever and looking for ways to score.

If he improves his free throws his points will go up easily as he will have more confidence driving to score


Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#6 kray28

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 08:33 AM

I think it's the media that's making a bigger deal than the fans about Lonzo's scoring. Many fans see what he brings to the team as a whole and while we acknowledge that he needs to score the ball better himself, we can also see that the team is obviously better with him creating for others. So in the end, it doesn't matter who gets the buckets, the point is that guys have an easier time getting buckets with Lonzo out there.

 

Where things go awry is when certain players out there literally freeze out Lonzo and try to go solo themselves. No. If you get the rebound and don't have any immediate run out....get the ball to Lonzo. 


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#7 androsays

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 09:27 AM

I agree that we shouldn't pressure Zo to score like we did Dlo... But Zo seems more capable of handling the pressure, he's definitely mature beyond his years. Can't say the same for Dlo.
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#8 LakeShow1o1

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 01:24 PM

Damn, since when does GCMD try to sympathize for a Laker player?  Lonzo seems to be your golden child.

 

All this talk about pressuring a player or expecting X,Y,Z from a player is what comes with the territory.  When you're the 2nd overall pick and have stirred this much buzz (albeit in large due to his father), there's going to be pressure to perform regardless.  These guys know what is expected from them and in the professional sports world, you'll be ridiculed on off nights, and the second you turn it on, the praise will pour in.

 

Watching the first 10 games, it's evident that Lonzo struggles to find balance between playmaking for teammates, and looking for his own shot.  This is arguably the most difficult task for any lead guard transitioning into the big leagues so it will obviously take time. 

 

However, to address your opinion on the LA Front Office and coaching staff pushing/pressuring Lonzo to create his own shot, I see nothing wrong with that.  In this current era of basketball, being a pass first point guard is great and all, but considering the roster we have constructed, in order to win games, Lonzo has to create for himself in order to find open opportunities for his teammates (due to the fact that we are extremely limited in players whom can create for themselves). As a point guard, you have to keep defenses on their toes.  Against Zo, defenses are going under screens, sagging off his shot a bit, and focusing on his passing lanes/covering teammates, rather than covering him.  This won't change until he shows that he can be a threat offensively.

 

There's nothing wrong with passing the rock and always looking for the open teammate (Lonzo does this extremely well), the issue is there are countless times in which Lonzo has a great look and ends up dishing it to the perimeter for a lower-percentage look...


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#9 BORNINLA

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Posted November 12, 2017 - 01:50 PM

You can only pass to teammates for so long before the defense plays you for the pass.  At this point teams are looking for Lonzo to pass every single time. It doesn't help that the team shoots terribly from the 3 point line.  A signature runner shot would do him well.


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#10 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 12:14 AM

IMHO, and I stress OPINION, the Lakers are making the same mistake with Lonzo as we did with D'Angelo.  He should have absolutely no pressure to create his own shot and no expectations as far as scoring at this point in his career.

 

IMHO, Lonzo should be trying to push the pace and get the Lakers to play faster and more efficient, something we've seen...but still need to play faster until everyone is comfortable where they need to be and when they need to be there.

 

Lakers have to get Lonzo easy looks at the rim by running some set plays for him on and off the ball in the half court.  A few backdoor lobs and a few double on-ball screens to set up Lonzo's ability to make plays and create the right tempo in half court sets.

 

 

I'm not going to make this too long so I'll just say this:

 

 

Lakers traded away D'Angelo to create space for Lonzo for a reason.  It's not to see scoring pressure be placed on our PG again and it's not to turn him into a scoring PG.  It's for his passing and leadership.  if they wanted shooting and scoring, they could have taken a guy like Dennis Smith Jr but that's not the goal here.  Lakers want Showtime?  You don't need Lonzo to be a scorer to get there.  I hope they resist the temptation to make the same mistake over again.

 

Agreed 100%.



#11 kball

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 05:03 AM

Damn, since when does GCMD try to sympathize for a Laker player?  Lonzo seems to be your golden child.

 

--Major snip

 

However, to address your opinion on the LA Front Office and coaching staff pushing/pressuring Lonzo to create his own shot, I see nothing wrong with that.  In this current era of basketball, being a pass first point guard is great and all, but considering the roster we have constructed, in order to win games, Lonzo has to create for himself in order to find open opportunities for his teammates (due to the fact that we are extremely limited in players whom can create for themselves). As a point guard, you have to keep defenses on their toes.  Against Zo, defenses are going under screens, sagging off his shot a bit, and focusing on his passing lanes/covering teammates, rather than covering him.  This won't change until he shows that he can be a threat offensively.

 

--Major snip

I see Lonzo needing to do this but not for that reason.

I feel we have plenty of guys who are good to great at creating their own shots (Kuz, Ingram, Lopez, KCP, Clarkson, Randle)

 

But almost none dependable to hit open shots with regularity.

 

Having said that, Who of us will be surprised if the starting lineup for most of the season remains Bro Lo, Kuz, Ingram, KCP,and Ball...that Ball will finish with the lowest scoring average even if his shot and FT% improves?


Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#12 Tensai

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 06:42 AM

SL team was the peak of Lonzo. Ever since he entered the order of Luke, the shackles have been put restricting his creativity. 


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#13 MaceWindu

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 09:23 AM

This thread is humbling



#14 Disaster in Paradise

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 11:56 AM

Lonzo deserves better.
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#15 Jody Smokes

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Posted November 13, 2017 - 01:08 PM

No, he's just playing against actual NBA players.

 

SL team was the peak of Lonzo. Ever since he entered the order of Luke, the shackles have been put restricting his creativity. 


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#16 noknife

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 09:46 AM

Just my opinion. But.....a lot of the pressure is coming from things like sports talk radio, newspapers, and hardcore fans on message boards. Coincidentally, these are all things that players, coaches, opposing teams, and just about everyone else other pay absolutely no attention to. Truly great players will not be affected by what people think, they also don’t need to have a team built around them to play well, they also won’t be affected by having pressure put on them, being played too much or too little etc. The kid is 19 years old. What were you doing at 19? Delivering pizza? Trying to get an A in a 100 level Econ class? Pining over some random crush? Putting up triple doubles opposing athletes of the highest level who are more experienced than you and physically dominant to you? Give him some time. If he is a great player then that is what he will become, if he isn’t then that will become evident over time, there isn’t a thing anyone can do other than give him time to develop.
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#17 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 10:18 AM

Some folks want 18 and 19 year olds to leave to media driven hype. It's crazy.. 19 yr olds arw considered a bust if they don't live up to folks own opinion. 19 yrs of age, most are either in college or working figuring out life.

NBA 19 yr olds though.. sink or swim. Break out 20 7 & 4 your first year or you Weak sauce. Many 19 ur olds don't pan out their first year.. 2 to 3 or maybe even 4 years later, thats when they mature.
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#18 LACAS

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 10:58 AM

Some folks want 18 and 19 year olds to leave to media driven hype. It's crazy.. 19 yr olds arw considered a bust if they don't live up to folks own opinion. 19 yrs of age, most are either in college or working figuring out life.

NBA 19 yr olds though.. sink or swim. Break out 20 7 & 4 your first year or you Weak sauce. Many 19 ur olds don't pan out their first year.. 2 to 3 or maybe even 4 years later, thats when they mature.

 

Lonzo was dealt unrealistic expectations and comparisons for a 19-year old... the kid has played 14 games, obviously his Dad and his shot not falling isn't helping matters but once he starts dropping 15ppg consistently the critics will be hushed. Another problem is people expecting 20+ppg from Zo when hes never been a scoring threat and wasn't drafted to be one.


Edited by LACAS, November 14, 2017 - 10:59 AM.


#19 KidRN

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 02:02 PM

Some folks want 18 and 19 year olds to leave to media driven hype. It's crazy.. 19 yr olds arw considered a bust if they don't live up to folks own opinion. 19 yrs of age, most are either in college or working figuring out life.
NBA 19 yr olds though.. sink or swim. Break out 20 7 & 4 your first year or you Weak sauce. Many 19 ur olds don't pan out their first year.. 2 to 3 or maybe even 4 years later, thats when they mature.

NBA players are almost always alloted an appropriate amount of time to develop. They make millions throughout their rookie contract regardless of their impact on the court. If I sucked at my job for more than a month, id likely be fired.

Edited by KidRN, November 14, 2017 - 02:12 PM.

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#20 dbtbandit67

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Posted November 14, 2017 - 05:55 PM

Except Lonzo has been playing mediocore, no matter what way you put it. Defensive/distributor role? Still mediocre.

 

A lot of this is Lavar's fault. It's all that BS he's been feeding his son about starting his own brand, having his own reality show, getting grown men to play a lot more physical with a young 20-something guard that still hasn't fully gotten past puberty yet, and whose body isn't quite NBA ready yet.

 

Best thing he can do tonight is to put his rap career aside, hit the weight room, have a solid dinner, stretch and ice his body for tomorrow and get a good night's sleep.

 

Not [expletive]ing around in a studio working on his rap album, doing his stupid reality show, or some Big Baller event. Man, do that [expletive] in the offseason, concentrate on Philly tomorrow and lift weights.


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