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Kyrie Irving Traded to Celtics for Crowder/Zizic/Thomas/Nets '18 pick


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#81    

   

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Posted July 24, 2017 - 10:17 PM

http://www.espn.com/...tial-trades-nba

Such a retarded hit piece by Zach Lowe (!) on Kyrie. I'm shocked to be honest. The baseless accusations, one-sided arguments, all-you-can-attack bonanza.

Either ZL is a huge LeBron homer and or ESPN swayed him heavily to do this.
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yo.


#82 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 24, 2017 - 11:53 PM

http://www.espn.com/...tial-trades-nba

 

Such a retarded hit piece by Zach Lowe (!) on Kyrie. I'm shocked to be honest. The baseless accusations, one-sided arguments, all-you-can-attack bonanza.

 

Lowe is right on the money. Where is he wrong?



#83 Tensai

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Posted July 25, 2017 - 03:17 AM

Where is he right? When he says Kyrie is a chucker? or when he says Kyrie can't win anywhere else? It is one idiotic accusation after another.

 

When everyone was talking Lebron's block on Iguodala in Gm7 for ages, who the hell talked the go-ahead 3 Kyrie hit with 50 seconds to go? It still doesn't get the attention he deserves. After being down 0-2, Kyrie averaged 30+ ppg to bring them back in series. This is the exact same [expletive] Kobe faced back in the day.


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#84 Jackson

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Posted July 25, 2017 - 10:25 AM

Where is he right? When he says Kyrie is a chucker? or when he says Kyrie can't win anywhere else? It is one idiotic accusation after another.

 

When everyone was talking Lebron's block on Iguodala in Gm7 for ages, who the hell talked the go-ahead 3 Kyrie hit with 50 seconds to go? It still doesn't get the attention he deserves. After being down 0-2, Kyrie averaged 30+ ppg to bring them back in series. This is the exact same [expletive] Kobe faced back in the day.

Here's one more from Tom Haberstroh:

 

 

Is Kyrie following Kobe's lead, and is that a good thing?

 

http://www.espn.com/...mes-problem-nba



#85 Busty Bluth

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Posted July 25, 2017 - 02:33 PM

Going to be an awful locker room if they don't trade him. I hope he says in the east.


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#86 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted July 25, 2017 - 08:40 PM

This is so far left field, it's foul to me and I am laughing at this. Besides loud mouth know it all SAS... any confirmed rumors on any trades yet?

Edited by FranklinPeanuts, July 25, 2017 - 08:46 PM.


#87 Tensai

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Posted July 25, 2017 - 09:07 PM

Here's one more from Tom Haberstroh:

 

 

http://www.espn.com/...mes-problem-nba

 

Had a nausea after reading it. It's ESPN writing the scenario and playing it.

 

> Kyrie wants a trade.

> Why?

> He wants to be his own man.

> Who was his role model?

> Kobe.

> Kobe also wanted to be his own man, and drove Shaq out of town, didn't he?

> Let's analyze both Kobe and Kyrie.

> They are both volume shooters.

> Did you know Kyrie took more shots than Lebron like Kobe took more shots than Shaq?

> Well, Kobe was a chucker and a ballhog.

> Kyrie's USG% was actually higher than Lebron's.

> Kyrie will never win a ring by himself.

> Yeah, what an overrated piece of [expletive].


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#88 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 12:07 AM

Where is he right? When he says Kyrie is a chucker? or when he says Kyrie can't win anywhere else? It is one idiotic accusation after another.

 

When everyone was talking Lebron's block on Iguodala in Gm7 for ages, who the hell talked the go-ahead 3 Kyrie hit with 50 seconds to go? It still doesn't get the attention he deserves. After being down 0-2, Kyrie averaged 30+ ppg to bring them back in series. This is the exact same [expletive] Kobe faced back in the day.

You clearly have a crush on Kyrie because the dude IS a bit of a chucker and he haven't really proven that he can turn all of his scoring ability into wins when he isn't playing alongside Lebron. Not before Lebron joined the Cavs - or when Lebron is out. Now whether or not he can win anywhere else probably depend on which guys he's playing with. I think Lowe's main argument was that Kyrie is in a perfect spot right now playing alongside Lebron.

 

Personally, i fully understand that Kyrie wants out. I mean, staying in Cleveland post-Lebron is going to suck and he's not going to be credited for wins (that's Lebron), but he will be blamed for the losses.

 

 

Had a nausea after reading it. It's ESPN writing the scenario and playing it.

 

> Kyrie wants a trade.

> Why?

> He wants to be his own man.

> Who was his role model?

> Kobe.

> Kobe also wanted to be his own man, and drove Shaq out of town, didn't he?

> Let's analyze both Kobe and Kyrie.

> They are both volume shooters.

> Did you know Kyrie took more shots than Lebron like Kobe took more shots than Shaq?

> Well, Kobe was a chucker and a ballhog.

> Kyrie's USG% was actually higher than Lebron's.

> Kyrie will never win a ring by himself.

> Yeah, what an overrated piece of [expletive].

Tom Haberstroh is a [expletive]ing retard.



#89 Tensai

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 01:42 AM

How the hell is he supposed to prove he can win without Lebron? Was he given a chance?? Notice all the players Cavaliers signed. They are all signed to cater Lebron, not Kyrie. It is like you are taking Kyrie into vacuum and analyzing him with all other things constant. Same [expletive] as what those ESPN simpletons are doing.

 

Kyrie wants to leave for that EXACT reason. He wants to lead a team with players that he can dictate and lead. He wants to run up and down instead of playing down to Lebron's pace.

 

If Kyrie was given his own team, the result wouldn't be all that different than this:

 

 

You would see it more often than not. The current team with Lebron dominating the ball on half-court offense is not Kyrie's team, it is Lebron's team.


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#90 Tensai

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 01:44 AM

Notice the difference between Harden and Harden under Mike D'Antoni. That is what a system does to a player's performance. Now put Kyrie on a system like that with him at the center, and see what he does. Until then, all this talk that he can't do anything without Lebron is bull[expletive].


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#91 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 03:37 AM

Notice the difference between Harden and Harden under Mike D'Antoni. That is what a system does to a player's performance. Now put Kyrie on a system like that with him at the center, and see what he does. Until then, all this talk that he can't do anything without Lebron is bull[expletive].

 

Kyrie is clealy an amazing offensive talent who would benefit a lot from playing on a different team, but at the same time you cant ignore that he also is among the worst defenders at his position and that he havent been able to turn his offense into wins whenever Lebron wasn't on the floor - not in the 3 seasons before Lebron joined - or whenever Lebron was out.



#92 RobBlake

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 06:35 AM

Kyrie is clealy an amazing offensive talent who would benefit a lot from playing on a different team, but at the same time you cant ignore that he also is among the worst defenders at his position and that he havent been able to turn his offense into wins whenever Lebron wasn't on the floor - not in the 3 seasons before Lebron joined - or whenever Lebron was out.

elite pgs don't need to be great defenders just gotta be able to challenge his guy. Irving was drafted to be a franchise player until lebron came back and took that crown. Irving is a way better player now

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#93 Tensai

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 07:12 AM

There is literally little difference between Stephen Curry and Kyrie Irving. Now tell me, what did Curry do without Draymond Green? What did he do last year without Kevin Durant? He was two-time MVP for a 73 game winning team, wasn't he?

 

But guess what, nobody even mentions any of that when it comes to Kyrie. There is this bogus story out there that Kyrie is an unconcious chucker and he doesn't care about winning. What do you think would happen if you put Kyrie on that Warriors team with Draymond and Klay? What do you think would Kyrie do if he was the focal point on an offense that caters to his strong points, and defense that hides his weaknesses? You clearly know as well as anybody that Lebron wasn't even close to being a good defender last season. He allowed Durant to go off on him, especially on the clutch. So why does this story that Kyrie is a bad defender comes out now? Does anyone care for [expletive] that Harden is a bad defender? The season with D'Antoni silenced all that noise.

 

At this point, it is more bias than facts. That's the bottomline.


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#94 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 12:06 PM

elite pgs don't need to be great defenders just gotta be able to challenge his guy. Irving was drafted to be a franchise player until lebron came back and took that crown. Irving is a way better player now

 

If you're going after titles you need to play on both ends of the floor. It's always been like that. 

 

 

There is literally little difference between Stephen Curry and Kyrie Irving. Now tell me, what did Curry do without Draymond Green? What did he do last year without Kevin Durant? He was two-time MVP for a 73 game winning team, wasn't he?

 

But guess what, nobody even mentions any of that when it comes to Kyrie. There is this bogus story out there that Kyrie is an unconcious chucker and he doesn't care about winning. What do you think would happen if you put Kyrie on that Warriors team with Draymond and Klay? What do you think would Kyrie do if he was the focal point on an offense that caters to his strong points, and defense that hides his weaknesses? You clearly know as well as anybody that Lebron wasn't even close to being a good defender last season. He allowed Durant to go off on him, especially on the clutch. So why does this story that Kyrie is a bad defender comes out now? Does anyone care for [expletive] that Harden is a bad defender? The season with D'Antoni silenced all that noise.

 

At this point, it is more bias than facts. That's the bottomline.

 

First of all, Steph Curry is a lot better defensively than Irving. Since you want to look at facts, why not look at the DRPM: In 2016-17 Curry at 0.14 was 19th among PGs, which is ok. Irving at -2.3 was 69th. I'm sure you'll say that Curry was on a better defensive team. Fine. in 2015-16 the Cavs were a top 10 defensive team and Golden State were 4th so they were pretty close. Still, Curry's DRPM was at .86 which is really good. Irving was the 6th worst defender at -2.86. Find whatever metric you want, it will still give you the same result.

 

This isn't news, though. Kyrie always were a horrible defender. People just dont care about defense all that much. Curry on the other hand is ok, although the other guys in GS does help him a little bit. But he gets a lot of steals, plays within his role and he competes. If Kyrie did the same, he'd be pretty good too. Some guys just dont care about defense.

 

If you put Kyrie on the Warriors they wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are now on both sides of the floor.



#95 Majesty

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 02:04 PM

Kyrie Irving not even being subtle about this :D 

 


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#96 RobBlake

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 05:16 PM

He dies play both sides, live in reality not everyone is elite two way players at that position. Westbrook made it publicly known curry wasn't a good defender

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#97 Tensai

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 05:34 PM

Curry was a good defender maybe 2 seasons ago when he was MVP for first time. Now? Hell no.

 

Harden, Lillard, Curry, Kyrie, IT, Westbrook more or less play same type of defense. That is the reality of PG position. You don't ask them to be the anchor of your defense. In past 20 years, you can maybe count a handful of point guards that played elite on both side of the ball (Payton, Kidd, CP3,.. then maybe Wall?)

 

Was anybody down on Nash for not playing defense? Was anybody down on Rose for not playing defense? Both won the MVP. Westbrook was just an OK defender like Kyrie is now. He also won an MVP. Harden almost won an MVP on two seperate seasons with playing little to no defense.

 

When (lack of) defense is your main argument for Kyrie, it just says to a lot of people that you don't have much ground on this discussion.


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#98 Tensai

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 05:39 PM

People are being selfish because they want to have them go at Warriors again for kicks and lulz.

 

But Kyrie is blamed for "being selfish" when he wants to start anew elsewhere. Irony.

 

Nobody discusses Lebron's lack of "commitment" beyond next season though. It is like, that fact just evaporated with this Kyrie topic.


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#99 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 10:45 PM

Curry was a good defender maybe 2 seasons ago when he was MVP for first time. Now? Hell no.

 

Harden, Lillard, Curry, Kyrie, IT, Westbrook more or less play same type of defense. That is the reality of PG position. You don't ask them to be the anchor of your defense. In past 20 years, you can maybe count a handful of point guards that played elite on both side of the ball (Payton, Kidd, CP3,.. then maybe Wall?)

 

Was anybody down on Nash for not playing defense? Was anybody down on Rose for not playing defense? Both won the MVP. Westbrook was just an OK defender like Kyrie is now. He also won an MVP. Harden almost won an MVP on two seperate seasons with playing little to no defense.

 

When (lack of) defense is your main argument for Kyrie, it just says to a lot of people that you don't have much ground on this discussion.

That is simply incorrect.  

 

Among PGs, Curry is probably average and a guy like Westbrook is above average.

But Lillard and Kyrie are among the worst in the league. IT may be THE worst in the League.

 

Its funny how you bring up a bunch of other guys that had bad reputations defensively in your argument. None of those guys have anything to do with Kyrie and none of those guys ever won a ring but only excelled in offensive roles. Still, they're all better defensively than Kyrie, including Nash, and they were all a lot better at creating wins for the team, than Kyrie. Kyrie may be a better scorer than those guys, though. .

 

I have two arguments aginst Kyrie: He's among the worst defenders at his position and he's not the floor general and passer that you'd want. As a scorer he's among the best in the game and that have a lot of value, but if you want to win a title you have to have guys that are better at getting other guys involved and you need to play defense. For that reason, i have him in the 2nd tier behind Curry, Westbrook, Wall and CP3.



#100 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 26, 2017 - 10:55 PM

People are being selfish because they want to have them go at Warriors again for kicks and lulz.

 

But Kyrie is blamed for "being selfish" when he wants to start anew elsewhere. Irony.

 

Nobody discusses Lebron's lack of "commitment" beyond next season though. It is like, that fact just evaporated with this Kyrie topic.

Kyrie isn't selfish for wanting to leave at all. I think its the right decision for the guy.

 

Being on a team that caters 100% to Lebron, who is holding them hostage by threatening to leave all the time is not a good for anyone (other than Lebron). I do agree with Zach Lowe that Lebron's game is ideal for Kyrie and that he is giving up a guaranteed trip to the finals. But if its only for next season before Lebron goes elsewhere leaving the team in shambles i think Kyrie is better off leaving now.

 

The whole mamba-mentality article by the retarded Tom Haberstroh was bogus, but the concept does apply imo. Kobe believed 100% in his own ability, didn't want to win as a 2nd or 3rd option and didn't give a flying [expletive] what other people thought about it. Kyrie is a fan of Kobe and i think he may have adopted that stance a little bit. Good for him.






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