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2017 Lakers Free Agency/Trade Discussion


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#7201 Tensai

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Posted August 03, 2017 - 08:59 PM

[expletive]y do you even know your own team history?


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#7202 erfolk

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Posted August 03, 2017 - 09:10 PM

Shaq didn't turn us into a contender.... we were first round fodder. WE were the Clippers of the past couple years before Phil.
When Kobe entered his the infancy of his prime. Phil Jackson brought in a system and players to compliment the 2.

Bruh look up what your talking about. How were we one of the worst franchises in sports when Shaq came

#7203 BasketballIQ

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Posted August 03, 2017 - 10:17 PM

The Clippers were a playoff team and false contender. I'm not talking about the Clippers of that era

#7204 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 04, 2017 - 10:55 AM

They never lost in the 1st round after they got Shaq.  They lost to the Jazz mainly b/c they couldn't defend the pick and roll.  In 97 they lost in the 2nd round, in 98 they lost in the WCF to the Jazz as well. Some would argue at the time the Jazz were their Achilles heel.  

 

Not really sure I buy the Clippers comparison.  Shaq/Kobe would eventually become better than their counterparts due to age.  The Clippers had no way of becoming better than OKC in terms of talent and GS/Super Steph emerged out of nowhere.  

 

If anything the Lakers were like the Warriors.  They eventually became BETTER than the same teams they were losing to a couple of years prior.  

 

Shaq didn't turn us into a contender.... we were first round fodder. WE were the Clippers of the past couple years before Phil.
When Kobe entered his the infancy of his prime. Phil Jackson brought in a system and players to compliment the 2.


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#7205 DeeZee

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Posted August 04, 2017 - 07:34 PM

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Free agent Luke Babbitt, Atlanta Hawks agree on a one-year deal.

#7206 GCMD

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Posted August 09, 2017 - 12:25 AM

Because it wouldn't be ideal to go into next summer having to move both Clarkson and Deng. We’ve seen the cap space of other teams shrink a bit as teams like the Nets have taken on contracts – Crabbe, Mozzy, Carroll – so there may be fewer options available than we could hope for. I think this was one of the factors in the D-Lo deal. If those few teams think the Lakers are about to sign a max guy or two, then the price is going to go up.

 

If we "only" have Randle and Deng to deal with going into next summer, we know for a fact that we can:

  1. Stretch Deng, trade (or waive some of our rooks) and still use Randle's cap hold to sign two max guys at the 30% rate i.e. Boogie and George without having to depend on making moves with other teams. That is important and gives us a lot of leverage if we do want to try and move Deng.
  2. Now, if it’s Lebron and Westbrook we’d need an additional 10M in cap space in which case it would be problematic to keep Randle. But then again, if it’s Lebron and Westbrook, then i dont think we have a problem.

In a perfect world, we make the necessary moves during this offseason or before the trade deadline in order to maximize flexibility next summer and if there is a deal on the table now, i’d say we pull the trigger.

 

 

Randle's cap hold pretty much equals Clarkson's salary for 2018-2019 so there isn't a scenario where we can keep Randle and reach the 2 max slots threshold.

 

Without Randle's cap hold, we're at 51M (salary).  With it, we're at 63M salary and 36-39M cap space.  Even if we move Clarkson, we are right back at 51M (48-51M cap space).

 

I think we'd be better off trying to see if Lopez or KCP is worth resigning than worrying about keeping Clarkson, Randle or Deng.  If we move these 3, we write our own ticket in Free Agency next year instead of trying to find places for misfit toys.

 

If we can move Clarkson/Deng/Randle, we open up close to 80M in cap!!!!!  That's enough to pay 3 players around 27M each or 2 players 32M each and the 3rd at 16-18M...that's enough IMHO to keep either KCP or Lopez long term and that should be our goal.


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#7207 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 12:07 AM

Randle's cap hold pretty much equals Clarkson's salary for 2018-2019 so there isn't a scenario where we can keep Randle and reach the 2 max slots threshold.

 

Without Randle's cap hold, we're at 51M (salary).  With it, we're at 63M salary and 36-39M cap space.  Even if we move Clarkson, we are right back at 51M (48-51M cap space).

 

I think we'd be better off trying to see if Lopez or KCP is worth resigning than worrying about keeping Clarkson, Randle or Deng.  If we move these 3, we write our own ticket in Free Agency next year instead of trying to find places for misfit toys.

 

If we can move Clarkson/Deng/Randle, we open up close to 80M in cap!!!!!  That's enough to pay 3 players around 27M each or 2 players 32M each and the 3rd at 16-18M...that's enough IMHO to keep either KCP or Lopez long term and that should be our goal.

 

 

Not correct.

 

Lonzo, Ingram: 13.2M

Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Zu, Bryant: 8.7M.

Clarkson: 12.5M

Deng: 18M

Randle cap hold: 12.4M.

2 min cap holds of 800k.

 

Total: 66 M

Cap is 103 M.

Cap Space: 36 M - which is enough for any max player and it allow us to keep Randle.

 

Options:

Trade Clarkson for an expiring deal = extra 12.5M

Stretch Deng to 5yrs, 7.4 per year = extra 10M

Trade Deng = extra 18M.

Waive Randle = extra 12.4M.

 

There is no such thing as a "two-max threshold". It really is all about which guys we are targeting.

Lebron, Westbrook can demand 35% of the cap, George, Boogie can demand 30% of the cap. KCP, Randle are at 25%. So two 25% max Guys would be close to 50M whereas two 35% max guys is more than 70M.

 

If we're targeting Lebron AND Westbrook we'd need 71M in cap space. Trade Deng AND Clarkson. Waive/trade everyone else (except for BI and Lonzo). Keep Randle's cap hold. Then it's possible. But honestly, if we're going after those two, the most likely scenario is that Randle is gone.

 

If we're targeting Lebron and George, then we need 67M in cap space. Again, if we want to keep Randle in this scenario we have to trade both Deng and Clarkson.

 

If its Boogie and George, then we need 62M in cap space. Now we ”only” have to trade Clarkson and then stretch Deng in order to get enough money for that.

 

 

What i’m pretty sure what will happen is that we’ll see the front office try to inflate the value of these guys from day one and try to move them all during the season.

 

Clarkson is easily moved, i think.

Deng needs a lot of incentive, but maybe Randle can you back a 1st rounder and then flip that pick along with a combination of Lakers’ own future 1sts (or 2nds) and maybe a young piece like Zu or Nance to move Deng.

 

If we go into the 2018 offseason with those three guys off the books we might be able to keep a guy like KCP or Lopez in addition to getting two max guys.


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#7208 GCMD

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 08:37 AM

Not correct.

 

Lonzo, Ingram: 13.2M

Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Zu, Bryant: 8.7M.

Clarkson: 12.5M

Deng: 18M

Randle cap hold: 12.4M.

2 min cap holds of 800k.

 

Total: 66 M

Cap is 103 M.

Cap Space: 36 M - which is enough for any max player and it allow us to keep Randle.

 

Options:

Trade Clarkson for an expiring deal = extra 12.5M

Stretch Deng to 5yrs, 7.4 per year = extra 10M

Trade Deng = extra 18M.

Waive Randle = extra 12.4M.

 

There is no such thing as a "two-max threshold". It really is all about which guys we are targeting.

Lebron, Westbrook can demand 35% of the cap, George, Boogie can demand 30% of the cap. KCP, Randle are at 25%. So two 25% max Guys would be close to 50M whereas two 35% max guys is more than 70M.

 

If we're targeting Lebron AND Westbrook we'd need 71M in cap space. Trade Deng AND Clarkson. Waive/trade everyone else (except for BI and Lonzo). Keep Randle's cap hold. Then it's possible. But honestly, if we're going after those two, the most likely scenario is that Randle is gone.

 

If we're targeting Lebron and George, then we need 67M in cap space. Again, if we want to keep Randle in this scenario we have to trade both Deng and Clarkson.

 

If its Boogie and George, then we need 62M in cap space. Now we ”only” have to trade Clarkson and then stretch Deng in order to get enough money for that.

 

 

What i’m pretty sure what will happen is that we’ll see the front office try to inflate the value of these guys from day one and try to move them all during the season.

 

Clarkson is easily moved, i think.

Deng needs a lot of incentive, but maybe Randle can you back a 1st rounder and then flip that pick along with a combination of Lakers’ own future 1sts (or 2nds) and maybe a young piece like Zu or Nance to move Deng.

 

If we go into the 2018 offseason with those three guys off the books we might be able to keep a guy like KCP or Lopez in addition to getting two max guys.

 

 

You're seriously trying to rationalize this by saying "if we get our 2nd option Max Guys"?

 

I'm pretty sure we are shooting for the 30% (or >) max guys.  Two "25%" max guys doesn't move the needle...if we land KCP and Randle as our max guys, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong...LOL.  

 

Kuzma

Nance

Hart

Bryant

Zubac

 

Waiving ALL of these players to keep Randle's cap hold?  Really?  That sounds like a good idea to you?

 

Say Randle gets a 4yr/80M offer...what then?  You let all of those players go to match that?  LOL...not logical at all.  Come on, man.

 

And the words "Randle" and "Max" should not be in the same sentence unless they are directly separated by the words "is not worth the".  Don't even try to slyly float that out there...not gonna happen.

 

I say again:

 

We will NOT MAX OUT RANDLE.

 

If we get the guys we are targeting, the only way we land 2 of them is if we get near 70M in cap space OR 1/both take a paycut.  There maybe a logical path to landing ONE Max Free Agent and keeping Randle...there is not a logical way to keep Randle AND land 2 MAX players...at least the max players that are actually WORTH the MAX...KCP and Randle are not...not even the lower 25% max.


Edited by GCMD, August 10, 2017 - 08:45 AM.

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#7209 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 10:02 PM

You're seriously trying to rationalize this by saying "if we get our 2nd option Max Guys"?

 

I'm pretty sure we are shooting for the 30% (or >) max guys.  Two "25%" max guys doesn't move the needle...if we land KCP and Randle as our max guys, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong...LOL.  

 

Kuzma

Nance

Hart

Bryant

Zubac

 

Waiving ALL of these players to keep Randle's cap hold?  Really?  That sounds like a good idea to you?

 

Say Randle gets a 4yr/80M offer...what then?  You let all of those players go to match that?  LOL...not logical at all.  Come on, man.

 

And the words "Randle" and "Max" should not be in the same sentence unless they are directly separated by the words "is not worth the".  Don't even try to slyly float that out there...not gonna happen.

 

I say again:

 

We will NOT MAX OUT RANDLE.

 

If we get the guys we are targeting, the only way we land 2 of them is if we get near 70M in cap space OR 1/both take a paycut.  There maybe a logical path to landing ONE Max Free Agent and keeping Randle...there is not a logical way to keep Randle AND land 2 MAX players...at least the max players that are actually WORTH the MAX...KCP and Randle are not...not even the lower 25% max.

It really is hilarious how Randle is certain to get you all riled up J.

 

Also, i never said anything about who should get what deal, i simply disputed your claim that there weren’t a scenario where we kept Randle and reached 2 max slots. In fact, there are plenty.

 

I agree that the Lakers likely are targeting the 30 and 35% max guys, but there’s a huge difference between which combination it is. I guess its fair to call the 30% guys ”2nd option max guys”, but if its Boogie and Paul George then please sign me up! Adding those two can happen by trading Clarkson for an expiring, using stretch on Deng and we keep Randle.


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#7210 kball

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 10:11 PM

^

Also...the likeliest of the somewhat unlikely scenarios.

Nice detective work Danish


Praying for  1. Youngsters Ballin (Didn't really happen on a consistent basis at all) 2. Miracle Trade (Also didn't happen. And we traded our best player for chump change) 3. Kick Ass Rooks (Zubac exceeded, Ingram tried but disappointed overall)

READY FOR SEASON TO BE OVER!!!

 

 


#7211 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 10:50 PM

^

Also...the likeliest of the somewhat unlikely scenarios.

Nice detective work Danish

Also close to my dream scenario which is:

 

1. Inflate Clarkson's value and flip him at the deadline for an expiring deal - maybe to Atlanta for Belinelli?

2. Inflate Randle's value and trade him at the deadline for a 2018 1st rounder - again, maybe to Atlanta for the 2018 1st from Hou or Min, or to Phx for Chriss or perhaps the 2018 Mia 1st.

3. Inflate Dengs value during the season by playing him a lot, then flip him at the deadline to Chicago for whatever the return was from the Randle deal, plus a 2020 protected LA 1st rounder and maybe Zubac and/or Nance.

 

2018 offseason (77M in cap space)

4. We sign Boogie to 30M

5. We sign George to 30M

6. We (re)-sign KCP to a deal just north of 18M/yr.

7. Being under the cap, we then use room exception to sign a veteran PG.

 

2018 depth chart:

Lonzo - (room exception)

KCP - Hart

Ingram - (George)

George - Kuzma - (Nance)

Boogie - Nance - Thomas



#7212 GCMD

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Posted August 10, 2017 - 11:52 PM

It really is hilarious how Randle is certain to get you all riled up J.

 

 

Actually, what you were saying was being spouted in a podcast that I disagreed with also so it wasn't Randle.  It was the re-hashing of BAD MATH.

 

Also, i never said anything about who should get what deal, i simply disputed your claim that there weren’t a scenario where we kept Randle and reached 2 max slots. In fact, there are plenty. 

 

All of the players we are rumored to want?  We can NOT land 2 of those guys (30% or >) if we keep Randle...not and pay them at 30% (or >) max.

 

Can we land 25% max guys?  Sure...but that's not DMC, Westbrook, PG13 or LeBron...nor is it anyone else that the Lakers have hinted they want...so your scenario is hypothetically correct ONLY if you ignore the whole reason we are going after "MAX" players...we are targeting the BEST.  You could theoretically max out ANY 2 Free Agents and make the numbers work to keep Randle if you don't spend the money wisely and pick young players off rookie contracts that aren't worth the max (Randle).

 

But that doesn't make sense, does it?

 

 


I agree that the Lakers likely are targeting the 30 and 35% max guys, but there’s a huge difference between which combination it is.

 

No, it's not.  LeBron and Westbrook are the 35% max guys on the market worth maxing...PG13/DMC are 30%, if I remember correctly.  Not hard at all.

 


I guess its fair to call the 30% guys ”2nd option max guys”, but if its Boogie and Paul George then please sign me up!

 

Wait what?  I said the 25% guys aren't worth it and are 2nd option guys...

 

 


You're seriously trying to rationalize this by saying "if we get our 2nd option Max Guys"?

 

I'm pretty sure we are shooting for the 30% (or >) max guys.  Two "25%" max guys doesn't move the needle...if we land KCP and Randle as our max guys, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong...LOL.  

 

You just, I don't even know what to call it.  You want to disagree with me so bad that you say what I said and pretended like I disagreed just to try to make an argument?  That's sad.  Stop disagreeing with me on principle or just save us both some time and please put me on your IGNORE list.


Adding those two can happen by trading Clarkson for an expiring, using stretch on Deng and we keep Randle.

 

You're ASSUMING we aren't targeting LeBron or Westbrook...either one of these guys are our target and it is IMPOSSIBLE to max either one and keep Randle.

 

Randle's not accepting anything less than 15M.  

 

LeBron and Westbrooks's Max is around 35.7M/yr.

PG13 and DMC's max is around 30.6M/year.  

 

Deng's contract will still be around 7M for the next 5 years (2 yrs x 2 = 4 + 1 equals 5 years divided into ~37M (36.81M) = ~7.4M (7.36M)/yr for 5 years)

 

The rest of the players (Ball/Ingram/Nance/Kuzma/Hart/Zubac) would cost around 20.4M (20.38M)...

 

Even at a conservative estimate of 66.3M for PG13 or DMC + LeBron or Westbrook, 7.4M (Deng) + 20.4M (rest of roster) = ~94M.  You need 12.4M to sign those guys and keep Randle as a RFA (12.4M cap hold) and you only have ~9M.  And don't forget that DMC and Randle on the same team is the OPPOSITE of what a successful 2018-2019 starting lineup would look like with Ball at PG, PG13 at SG and Ingram at SF...

 

If you think Randle won't get offered MORE than 8.9M, you're kidding yourself...and that's what we'd have left to offer if we signed a 35%/30% max duo...which is what the Lakers are trying to do.


Edited by GCMD, August 11, 2017 - 12:19 AM.

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#7213 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 01:32 AM

First of all, the 25 % i mentioned was to outline how the cap situation was looking. Not sure why you keep bringing that up.

 

Second of all, i'm not assuming anything. I'm just saying that we can in fact keep Randle in some of these scenarios.

 

I am repeating myself, but

 

30 + 35 = keeping Randle is possible, but require us to move both Deng and Clarkson.

30 + 30 = keeping Randle is possible, but require us ot move Clarkson and stretch Deng. Nance might have to go as well.

 

 

 



#7214 GCMD

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 03:25 AM

First of all, the 25 % i mentioned was to outline how the cap situation was looking. Not sure why you keep bringing that up.

 

Second of all, i'm not assuming anything. I'm just saying that we can in fact keep Randle in some of these scenarios.

 

I am repeating myself, but

 

30 + 35 = keeping Randle is possible, but require us to move both Deng and Clarkson.

30 + 30 = keeping Randle is possible, but require us ot move Clarkson and stretch Deng. Nance might have to go as well.

 

 

 

 

 

This is why people get into stupid fights around here.  

 

You are pretending that we disagree about things that we haven't even discussed.

You are ignoring the math I just posted (and you can check) to perpetuate an argument that shouldn't exist.

You are ignoring what the Lakers are trying to do to discuss the hypothetical situation you created because you want to win a point.

 

Useless - the amount of posts wasted around here in the pursuit of "protest" is astounding.  If you don't want to have meaningful discussion, please just ignore my posts.  If you disagree with me on principle, just say that so I won't waste mine or your time responding.


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#7215 LACAS

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 05:36 AM

Im warming up to the idea of Bron playing PF for us, hard not to think of what he could do for this roster today...

Ball

KCP

BI

Bron

Lopez



#7216 GCMD

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 10:08 PM

Im warming up to the idea of Bron playing PF for us, hard not to think of what he could do for this roster today...

Ball

KCP

BI

Bron

Lopez

 

 

I'd be happy with that also and I think it extends his prime at least 2 years.  He's not going to be banging bodies like the old days so PF today is more about rebounding and stretching the floor.  LeBron with that lineup makes a lot of noise, IMHO.  Kinda reminds me of the 2014-2015 Cavs where Kyrie, LeBron and Love were trying to figure everything out.  That Cavs team had won 33 games the previous season (before adding LeBron and K-Love) and went to the NBA Finals the next.  Not predicting we'd beat GSW but we'd be a lot closer IMHO than people think.


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#7217 kball

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 05:17 AM

Im warming up to the idea of Bron playing PF for us, hard not to think of what he could do for this roster today...

Ball

KCP

BI

Bron

Lopez

Do we have anything left on bench?

Is clarkson and Randle gone in this scenario?

 

Id rather have PG than re signing KCP and use BI to float to wherever and clamp down on some 2's if he shows that versatility.

 

Length of next Lopez contract might be a sticking issue also.

 

But a pretty good lineup especially if Kuzma comes on strong like he showed


Praying for  1. Youngsters Ballin (Didn't really happen on a consistent basis at all) 2. Miracle Trade (Also didn't happen. And we traded our best player for chump change) 3. Kick Ass Rooks (Zubac exceeded, Ingram tried but disappointed overall)

READY FOR SEASON TO BE OVER!!!

 

 


#7218 LACAS

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 05:22 AM

Do we have anything left on bench?

Is clarkson and Randle gone in this scenario?

 

Id rather have PG than re signing KCP and use BI to float to wherever and clamp down on some 2's if he shows that versatility.

 

Length of next Lopez contract might be a sticking issue also.

 

But a pretty good lineup especially if Kuzma comes on strong like he showed

 

That line up was solely based on a recent thought of mine of "what could be if we had Lebron NOW."



#7219 Majesty

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 09:50 AM

Im warming up to the idea of Bron playing PF for us, hard not to think of what he could do for this roster today...

Ball

KCP

BI

Bron

Lopez

Lose to Golden State, if we make it that far.  

Probably wouldn't till BI or Ingram was 22-23.   Kids are gonna be the most important players on our team and at 19 probably aren't taking us to the WCF, LeBron or no LeBron, they gotta grow.  

Probably why I'd be for the 30+30 plan because it nets us some younger players that will still be relatively in their primes 2-4 seasons down the road when our kids are ready to make that step. 


Edited by Majesty, August 12, 2017 - 09:52 AM.

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#7220 DanishLakerFan

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Posted August 13, 2017 - 10:50 PM

This is why people get into stupid fights around here.  

 

You are pretending that we disagree about things that we haven't even discussed.

You are ignoring the math I just posted (and you can check) to perpetuate an argument that shouldn't exist.

You are ignoring what the Lakers are trying to do to discuss the hypothetical situation you created because you want to win a point.

 

Useless - the amount of posts wasted around here in the pursuit of "protest" is astounding.  If you don't want to have meaningful discussion, please just ignore my posts.  If you disagree with me on principle, just say that so I won't waste mine or your time responding.

 

I simply questioned your initial statement that there weren't any scenarios where we kept Randle and had two max slots, that's all. You're the one that immediately get defensive and start ranting about why Randle shouldn't get a max, which never was something i suggested.

 

But lets agree to disagree on that.

 

I do agree that Randle most likely is gone by the trade deadline, and i believe he's going to be used to aquire assets that'll help us move Deng - or in a three way deal that moves Deng. Randle's next deal plus Deng is simply too much for teams to take on. Clarkson is likely gone at the deadline as well.


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