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Denver Nuggets @ Los Angeles Lakers Tuesday 1/17/17 7:30pm PST


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#181 ChichoGarcy

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:08 PM

It's not sudden.
 
Russell has yet to do anything to prove he's worth the adoration he gets.  Fans are mysteriously protective of Russell without any reason at all.



I think the main reason is the lack of stars, some fans are really desperated to find one in LA. No more Kobe, so they are thinking D'lo will carry the torch eventually, and because of this they tolerate his lack of effort, stupid turnovers, awful shooting from outside, very poor D, etc. Lets face it, the kid has been all talk, and it's getting really hard to defend him, so it must be very frustrating for those who put their hope on number 1.
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#182 Tensai

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:13 PM

I think the main reason is the lack of stars, some fans are really desperated to find one in LA. No more Kobe, so they are thinking D'lo will carry the torch eventually, and because of this they tolerate his lack of effort, stupid turnovers, awful shooting from outside, very poor D, etc. Lets face it, the kid has been all talk, and it's getting really hard to defend him, so it must be very frustrating for those who put their hope on number 1.

 

Gotta make this post pinned on every single thread.


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#183 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:14 PM

ChicoGarcy,

 

K i got a simple question for you. We both know you're a boxscore guy and you have this ability to measure decision making by looking at fg%.

 

How's ingram stat for a 2nd pick player? Isnt he a bust based on numbers ?



#184 Olabebeh

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:16 PM

It's okay to have a game here and there when you don't show up, that's part of youth, the problem is, both, Randle and Russel let their offensive play dictate their defense. You should allways play defense no matter what. Take for example Brandom Ingram, he has been shooting terrible last month but he didn't let his shooting slump dictate his defensive energy, he allways trys his best on the defensive end and he is the Rookie of this team, Russel and Randle should lead by example but they don't.


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#185 The Big Fish

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:20 PM

Spacing has a large part to do with it though...  Russell doesn't have much room to operate with the first unit when everything is clogged due to Randle.  

If you watch Lou with the second unit during that run, they essentially gave him the entire perimeter with Clarkson and Nick at the corner 3's, Ingram floating outside, and Zubac either pick and rolling or at the basket.

 

Randle literally clogs the area in which Russell is most deadly (mid-range) extended.  All that hand-off action with the half ass screens he sets does nothing.  The first unit has terrible spacing, it's really that simple.

With that said can they work as a tandem then? If Randle never develops that jumper the only fix is for either him to move to C or to find a stretch C and him to stay down low. 


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#186 ChichoGarcy

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:22 PM

ChicoGarcy,
 
K i got a simple question for you. We both know you're a boxscore guy and you have this ability to measure decision making by looking at fg%.
 
How's ingram stat for a 2nd pick player? Isnt he a bust based on numbers ?



It's ok, I know it must be hard for you, but it is what it is. Remember, we are all Lakers fans so there's no need to argue with each other. Thank you for showing respect this time. No "I hope you learned something" or "stupid" this time, you're getting better at this 👍

#187 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:24 PM

It's okay to have a game here and there when you don't show up, that's part of youth, the problem is, both, Randle and Russel let their offensive play dictate their defense. You should allways play defense no matter what. Take for example Brandom Ingram, he has been shooting terrible last month but he didn't let his shooting slump dictate his defensive energy, he allways trys his best on the defensive end and he is the Rookie of this team, Russel and Randle should lead by example but they don't.

 

I beg to differ. While Ingram's length is an asset defensively and has had good moments, there are lots of instances where he provided zero energy or got caught ball watching/ zoning out.

 

^This is strictly a response to the highlighted part of the quote.

 

Dude is going to be a great two way player in the league so Im not gonna pinpoint the mistakes of 18 or 19 y/o player but I had to point that out.


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#188 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:25 PM

It's ok, I know it must be hard for you, but it is what it is. Remember, we are all Lakers fans so there's no need to argue with each other. Thank you for showing respect this time. No "I hope you learned something" or "stupid" this time, you're getting better at this

So can you answer me? Really wanna learn from you sir :)



#189 Olabebeh

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:25 PM

After today's game is clear as water that Zubac needs more playing time, he earn it.



#190 DTIII™

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:27 PM

Denver coach Mike Malone stopped Ivica Zubac on the way out of the arena to say how impressed he was, and to keep it up.


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#191 LakeShow1o1

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:30 PM

With that said can they work as a tandem then? If Randle never develops that jumper the only fix is for either him to move to C or to find a stretch C and him to stay down low. 

 

I'm not sure they can unless Randle can develop a consistent mid range game or dependable 3.  Both of which will take time and may not ever happen cause his shot is rather flat.  

Again, this is a process.  You have to bank on potential when in a rebuilding phase.  It's either that or you short-change your assets and deal them far below their worth.



#192 Olabebeh

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:30 PM

I beg to differ. While Ingram's length is an asset defensively and has had good moments, there are lots of instances where he provided zero energy or got caught ball watching/ zoning out.

 

^This is strictly a response to the highlighted part of the quote.

 

Dude is going to be a great two way player in the league so Im not gonna pinpoint the mistakes of 18 or 19 y/o player but I had to point that out.

He maybe be provided zero energy in some instances, but compare his effort overall with Randle and Russel, not even close.



#193 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:33 PM

He maybe be provided zero energy in some instances, but compare his effort overall with Randle and Russel, not even close.

Yeah i tend to agree with this.



#194 LakeShow1o1

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:35 PM

I beg to differ. While Ingram's length is an asset defensively and has had good moments, there are lots of instances where he provided zero energy or got caught ball watching/ zoning out.

 

^This is strictly a response to the highlighted part of the quote.

 

Dude is going to be a great two way player in the league so Im not gonna pinpoint the mistakes of 18 or 19 y/o player but I had to point that out.

 

Exactly... Ingram hasn't been  playing up to par with 2nd overall pick standard, but the promise is there and people trust that he will develop.  Why is it that Russell is viewed differently when the same promise is there.

 

There's really no difference in Russell's current offensive woes compared to Ingrams.  Their shots simply aren't falling consistently.  If anything, Ingram is struggling even more on that end.  

 

Defensively, Ingram has great length and all the things you can't teach so he does often show nice flashes on that end but there are times where he gets caught just like anyone else.  Galinari, a relatively slow player, blew by him on a few possessions but people don't choose to see that.  However, when someone blows by Russell, it's as if they have their scientific lab microscopes on, analyzing every micrometer of the play.

 

It'll all take time... so many impatient Laker fans so quick to blow a young core when they've only been together for not even a full season...  My only knock on Russell is he lets his offensive success/failures dictate his overall energy.  That type of style needs to go.  That's how my lazy ass plays in pickup games haha.


Edited by LakeShow1o1, January 17, 2017 - 10:39 PM.


#195 Tensai

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:38 PM

Same promise isn't there. This isn't his rookie season. He is getting his minutes, and providing awful production in return.

 

It blows my mind how someone can defend a 2nd year player shooting less than 40 percent from the floor with 3.5 turnovers/per36.

 

Open your mind and read that statement again. If his name was Mudiay, you would be calling him bust.


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#196 ChichoGarcy

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:42 PM

It's ok, I know it must be hard for you, but it is what it is. Remember, we are all Lakers fans so there's no need to argue with each other. Thank you for showing respect this time. No "I hope you learned something" or "stupid" this time, you're getting better at this


So can you answer me? Really wanna learn from you sir :)



Oh no no, you can't just take it away. "I hope you learned something today", remember? Or the "stupid" posts of other members here. Arrogance is not a shirt that you can wear one day and take it of the day after, it belongs to you. You, my arrogant friend, have nothing to learn, because you know it all 👍 Now, I think Ingrams effort is not there always, that's easy to see, but he's showing a lot more maturity than Russell in his game. In terms of shooting, they both have been awful, but BI is not trying to take over when he has been shooting bricks all night.

#197 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:47 PM

Exactly... Ingram hasn't been playing up to par with 2nd overall pick standard, but the promise is there and people trust that he will develop. Why is it that Russell is viewed differently when the same promise is there.

So many people on this forum get caught up with what believe through hear say but don't exactly take the time out to watch games. There's really no different in Russell's current offensive woes compared to Ingrams. If anything, Ingram is struggling even more on that end.

Defensively, Ingram has great length and all the things you can't teach so he does often show nice flashes on that end but there are times where he gets caught just like anyone else. Galinari, a relatively slow player, blew by him on a few possessions but people don't choose to see that. However, when someone blow by Russell, it's as if they have their scientific lab microscopes on, analyzing every micrometer of the play.

It'll all take time... so many impatient Laker fans so quick to blow a young core when they've only been together for not even a full season... My only knock on Russell is he lets his offensive success/failures dictate his overall energy. That type of style needs to go. That's how my lazy ass plays in pickup games haha.


Yeah I know. I pointed this out before but I believe the controversy of the 2015 draft was too much for some fans to be patient with Russell even calling him a bust from summer league.

Unlike the 2015 draft,the 2016 was religiously a lock between Ingram and Simmons so there weren't any opportunity cost. Never heard fans say lakers should've picked this instead of Ingram. This contributes a lot to the hate Russell gets(although some of the hate is warranted).

I've heard comments about Russell's game from people and even though I disagree with those points, the concerns were legit and fair to ask. Some posters here have nothing valid to argue against Russell and thus you see lots of reaching.

No one should judge youngsters from stats and box score unless you're new to basketball or clueless but to me Russell's potential is nice. I've advocated moving him to the 2, and I believe that's the position he'll end up playing eventually but overall he has the tools to be an all-star on this team along with Ingram.
Anyway, I'm happy with how the lakers drafted and content with Russell and Ingram moving forward.
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#198 Ventiquattro

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:50 PM

Oh no no, you can't just take it away. "I hope you learned something today", remember? Or the "stupid" posts of other members here. Arrogance is not a shirt that you can wear one day and take it of the day after, it belongs to you. You, my arrogant friend, have nothing to learn, because you know it all 👍 Now, I think Ingrams effort is not there always, that's easy to see, but he's showing a lot more maturity than Russell in his game. In terms of shooting, they both have been awful, but BI is not trying to take over when he has been shooting bricks all night.


You haven't answered my other questions from the other night, when did u start watching basetkabll and how old are you ?

#199 LakeShow1o1

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:51 PM

Same promise isn't there. This isn't his rookie season. He is getting his minutes, and providing awful production in return.

 

It blows my mind how someone can defend a 2nd year player shooting less than 40 percent from the floor with 3.5 turnovers/per36.

 

Open your mind and read that statement again. If his name was Mudiay, you would be calling him bust.

 

How is it not there?  It's essentially his rookie season after playing with Kobe last year and a completely different system and coaching staff.  He doesn't get many minutes compared to other prospects in his draft class as I've shown you before.  He averages about 27 minutes a game, Devin Booker and Porzingis average 33 and 34.  Guys like Wiggins and Towns average 35 and 37.

 

You constantly mention field-goal percentage as if it holds significant merit.  He's shooting 39.9%, that's really not that from off from 40.  I'm surprised your PhD in Mechanical Engineering didn't help you there.  And as for the 3.5 TO per 36, other great point guards such as Kyrie Irving (3.4 per 36), Russell Westbrook (3.4 per 36), Stephen Curry (3.4 per 36) all in their sophomore seasons.  

 

Open your eyes, not your mind, because we know that's been shut off for some time now.



#200 ChichoGarcy

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Posted January 17, 2017 - 10:52 PM

Same promise isn't there.



I feel the same about this. I think Ingram can be more athletic, he's very large for the other SF, wingspan is great, he puts a lot of effort on his D at 19 years old and he doesn't play and behave like he's already an All-star. Still, very long way to go.




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