Jump to content


Photo

The Bottom Line


  • Please log in to reply
69 replies to this topic

#1 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,537 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted January 16, 2017 - 06:27 AM

Lets just face it, we aren’t very good. We’re young and that’s our Achilles but the bottom line is we simply aren’t very good. This does not mean we wont be good but we aren’t good now and may not be for a few more years and the latter is purely a fans speculation based on hope, potential and flashes.

 

Will the kids be good? I hope so and think so but what exactly makes me think they might be good? Flashes, a few games here and there, a few shots, plays, sequences, etc.…?

 

To expect much more from them this year is expecting too much but what is expecting too much or are we simply expecting too little? Have our standard of expectations been lowered so much based on the past few years? Have the Lakers standards of expectation become less then those across the association?

 

We keep telling ourselves Randle, Russell and Ingram will become studs but what are we basing this on? How does Ingram compare to his past and present contemporaries? Randle has improved but has Russell? JC has underperformed and regressed, Zubac is a raw project; Nance is a solid role player…

 

The off season signings simply sucked, we can make all the excuses in the world why we signed certain players or why we couldn’t get certain players but the bottom line is Moz and Deng suck and those contracts suck. We can continue to make all the excuses we want on how the Lakers are buying time and so forth but what we might doing is simply making excuses.

 

What exactly are we praising the FO for? Drafting Randle? I think many of us here would have taken him at the selection. Drafting Russell? Well you weren't getting KAT so that made the selection pretty easy. Drafting BI? Again you weren’t getting Simmons. Summer signings? Are we praising the FO that Lou and Nick are our best players? I can go on and on… BTW The Luke signing may have been our best signing in some time, I believe in Luke but you cant win the derby without horses.

 

I’ve been here, I’m not going anywhere, ride or die but at some point someone needs to face the music; the front office and players should be held to a higher standard, expectations should be higher and there must be accountability. We are on year 4 of sucking/rebuilding/regrouping whatever you want to label us and thus far we are a combined 80-211 and counting… since 2013 we have been the west coast version of 76’ers and that’s the bottom line.

 

As always GO LAKERS!


Edited by LACAS, January 16, 2017 - 09:12 AM.

  • manaro90 and Olabebeh like this

#2 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,537 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted January 16, 2017 - 06:28 AM

Sorry for the pent up vent.

 

Go Lakers!



#3 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 06:53 AM

After 3 years of tanking and all the hype, we only have 3 more wins than Sixers. The Process has brought vision and hope for the Sixers they hoped from him just in his rookie year with all the minute restrictions. That's the situation we are in, and we can't keep bringing the youth and age as excuse anymore. At some point this team has to make a jump. Losing breeds losing, winning breeds winning. We haven't been a winning team since 12/13.


  • lakersince75, Olabebeh and LACAS like this

fXlFKv8.gif

 


#4 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 07:53 AM

Something I noticed:

 

T'Wolves are 14-27 in 41 games they played, but their effort is bigger than their record. How do you see that? Like this:

 

27 times most points in the game belong to T'Wolves players: Wiggins (9), Towns (9), LaVine (8), Dieng (1)

31 times most rebounds in the game belong to T'Wolves players: Towns (25) Dieng (6)

21 times most assists in the game belong to: Rubio (17), Dunn (2), Dieng (1), LaVine (1)

 

For Lakers who have 15-30 record in 45 games,

 

11 times most points in the game belong to Lakers players: Lou (8), Russell (1), Randle (1), Young (1)

16 times most rebounds in the game belong to Lakers players: Randle (10), Nance Jr. (2), Deng (2), T-Rob (1)

8 times most assists in the game belong to Lakers players: Randle (3), Russell (3), Lou (2)


fXlFKv8.gif

 


#5 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 08:25 AM

Something I noticed:

T'Wolves are 14-27 in 41 games they played, but their effort is bigger than their record. How do you see that? Like this:

27 times most points in the game belong to T'Wolves players: Wiggins (9), Towns (9), LaVine (8), Dieng (1)
31 times most rebounds in the game belong to T'Wolves players: Towns (25) Dieng (6)
21 times most assists in the game belong to: Rubio (17), Dunn (2), Dieng (1), LaVine (1)

For Lakers who have 15-30 record in 45 games,

11 times most points in the game belong to Lakers players: Lou (8), Russell (1), Randle (1), Young (1)
16 times most rebounds in the game belong to Lakers players: Randle (10), Nance Jr. (2), Deng (2), T-Rob (1)
8 times most assists in the game belong to Lakers players: Randle (3), Russell (3), Lou (2)

So this is because of effort and not play style or skill level? More effort would allow our guys to outscore/ out rebound superstar players on a nightly basis?

I don't think anyone would argue that Towns and Wiggins aren't better than everyone on our team, thus producing this stat. Rubio is a pass first PG, which is a rarity in the NBA today so that doesn't surprise me either that he'd lead the game in assists pretty frequently.

This is a serious stretch bro..Lakers average more rebounds and ppg than the T Wolves.

Edited by kidpolean, January 16, 2017 - 08:29 AM.

  • Klewfish likes this

#6 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 08:32 AM

If you make an effort to grab a rebound, you box out and grab the damn rebound. If you make an effort to score, you outsmart your opponent and score. If you make an effort to assist, you look for the next open dude. It all comes down to effort. Without effort, skill means nothing.


fXlFKv8.gif

 


#7 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 08:43 AM

If you make an effort to grab a rebound, you box out and grab the damn rebound. If you make an effort to score, you outsmart your opponent and score. If you make an effort to assist, you look for the next open dude. It all comes down to effort. Without effort, skill means nothing.

And vice versa! Wiggins and Towns are more talented and better scorers therefore they will pretty much out score our players on a nightly basis. Towns is an all star big and rebounds as such. Rubio's assists are due to his play style. The assists comparison is silly because there is no way in hell I'd take Rubio over Russell regardless of how many games he's lead in assists.

Once again we average more rebounds per game and score more per game, our stats are spread out more due to play style and lack of a true #1 option. We don't have a go to guy like Minny does. They play a completely different style.

Most teams have a player that averages 20 a game or close to it. That isn't simply effort, that is skill. At this point we don't have a player on that level. Russell cant just try harder so he can score 36 points when Curry drops 35 points on us. That's not how it works.

Edited by kidpolean, January 16, 2017 - 08:51 AM.


#8 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,382 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 16, 2017 - 08:50 AM

I think Lou should be moved for something that can fit the young guys and give them more minutes.  Lou taking over 4th quarters is a hit or miss thing but not exactly good for the development of the young guys.  


  • LACAS likes this

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#9 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 08:55 AM

I think Lou should be moved for something that can fit the young guys and give them more minutes. Lou taking over 4th quarters is a hit or miss thing but not exactly good for the development of the young guys.

I wouldn't necessarily move him but I agree that last night it should have been one of our young's taking those shots. Luke is a 1st year head coach, his early success or failure could have a pretty big impact on future job offers. He has to balance trying to win vs developing players and it has to be pretty tough. This is why I thought that getting a proven coach would have been a better idea. They have a past that can be looked upon during rough seasons such as these. How many seasons like this can Luke have before he is simply viewed as a bad coach?

Either way pulling Lou at the end of games would be better for development.

Edited by kidpolean, January 16, 2017 - 08:56 AM.

  • LACAS likes this

#10 Jody Smokes

Jody Smokes

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,382 posts
  • Fan Since:2003
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:07 AM

The issue with Lou is that he's a gift and a curse but he also isn't a long term piece.  The good is that if he's hot he can help you pull out close games, if he's not on fire he can gum up the offense.  It's also no secret that his playmaking and defense stinks.  

 

The issue I'm seeing with DLo is that he needs to play with another playmaker to open up his scoring.  Ingram and DLo should play together more.  Just want to see DLo get more offball opportunities.  He's not going to get those with the starting unit unless you move Ingram into it.  

 

I think the low minutes is a gift and a curse too.  I want to see DLo and Ingram for long stretches.  Less Lou in the mix as well.  

 

I'd try to move him and Tarik at the deadline for something solid that can fit this squad's direction.  


  • LakeShow1o1 and LACAS like this

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#11 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:15 AM

The issue with Lou is that he's a gift and a curse but he also isn't a long term piece.  The good is that if he's hot he can help you pull out close games, if he's not on fire he can gum up the offense.  It's also no secret that his playmaking and defense stinks.  
 
The issue I'm seeing with DLo is that he needs to play with another playmaker to open up his scoring.  Ingram and DLo should play together more.  Just want to see DLo get more offball opportunities.  He's not going to get those with the starting unit unless you move Ingram into it.  
 
I think the low minutes is a gift and a curse too.  I want to see DLo and Ingram for long stretches.  Less Lou in the mix as well.  
 
I'd try to move him and Tarik at the deadline for something solid that can fit this squad's direction.

what you got in mind trade wise?

Do you look for a playmaker in the trade? or work with what we have and try to find a defender?

#12 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,537 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:30 AM

Wanting to see DLO more offball Hmmmmmmmm

 

Do you look for a playmaker? Hmmmmmmm

 

Are we stating that DLO may not be the PG we thought we drafted?  He was suppose to be a playmaker and Im not disagreeing with anyone just curious to the present mindset on DLO.

 

Would a Rondo or MCW type pass first PG help DLO as you slide him to SG? Not stating I want either simply 2 pass 1st PG's / Playmakers that came to mind that might be available.



#13 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:31 AM

Move Russell. Make Clarkson the PG. He was pretty good in his rookie season. Ever since we made him SG with Russell coming in, the kid lost all his playmaking instincts. He can play heavy minutes too.

 

Just look at the stats he posted in late season of his rookie campaign:

 

30 points 4 rebounds 7 assists

26 points 6 rebounds 11 assists

18 points 7 rebounds 10 assists

21 points 3 rebounds 9 assists

18 points 6 rebounds 9 assists

26 points 1 rebound 6 assists

23 points 5 rebounds 6 assists

 

 

Hence the all rookie first team. How the hell did we waste him?


fXlFKv8.gif

 


#14 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:50 AM

Wanting to see DLO more offball Hmmmmmmmm
 
Do you look for a playmaker? Hmmmmmmm
 
Are we stating that DLO may not be the PG we thought we drafted?  He was suppose to be a playmaker and Im not disagreeing with anyone just curious to the present mindset on DLO.
 
Would a Rondo or MCW type pass first PG help DLO as you slide him to SG? Not stating I want either simply 2 pass 1st PG's / Playmakers that came to mind that might be available.

I always said Russell was a scorer. It was people that didn't really watch him that thought he'd be averaging 10 assists a game.

He needs a passer and shooter next to him. Rondo or MCW would be terrible because they aren't a threat to knock down the three. If you watch him in college, his team consisted off all shooters that shared the ball really well. That's what he needs here.
  • LACAS likes this

#15 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:52 AM

 

 

[expletive]. This kid brought consistent excitement throughout his rookie campaign. He delivered night in and night out with excellent work ethic. No wonder Byron Scott was high on Clarkson and didn't really like Russell. And we chose Russell over him because he was #2, and we wanted to be Warriors wannabes with our new shiny Curry wannabe.

 

I still remember the first converation Russell had with Luke Walton.

 

"How can I be like Stephen Curry?"

 

LMAO


Edited by Tensai, January 16, 2017 - 09:56 AM.

fXlFKv8.gif

 


#16 bigvee

bigvee

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,593 posts
  • Location:LA
  • Fav. Laker:Samaki Walker

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:56 AM

Definitely gotta move Russell to the 2. It's stupid to have him starting with Nick. 

 

It's a basketball nightmare to have both your guards looking for their shot above all else. We don't have a Draymond Green to make that work. 



#17 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 09:59 AM

Definitely gotta move Russell to the 2. It's stupid to have him starting with Nick. 
 
It's a basketball nightmare to have both your guards looking for their shot above all else. We don't have a Draymond Green to make that work.

It's not about position, it's more about who he plays with on the court. Look at Harden! I'd actually keep him at the 1 because of the physical advantage he has over other PG's.

#18 Tensai

Tensai

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,367 posts

Posted January 16, 2017 - 10:02 AM

It is not stupid to have both guards to look for their shots. It is just that in this age of basketball if you look around the NBA, the point guards assume more roles than just playmaking. They attack the rim like slasher wings, they shoot 3, they look for contact, they look for open man, they push the tempo etc. Westbrook, Lillard, Curry, Wall etc. Even the non-traditional PGs like Giannis falls under same category. Russell can't do half of those things I just counted. Clarkson could and did. Hence we likened his game to Westbrook's at the time. If we made Clarkson the PG, and had Nick as the shooter type player who could defend, it would work. Ingram at SF, Randle at PF.

 

Clarkson

Nick

Ingram

Randle

Noel

 

push the tempo, pick & roll, hit the open man. Works better than what we currently we have.


Edited by Tensai, January 16, 2017 - 10:04 AM.

fXlFKv8.gif

 


#19 KidRN

KidRN

    Hall Of Fame

  • Member
  • 8,600 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted January 16, 2017 - 10:10 AM

It is not stupid to have both guards to look for their shots. It is just that in this age of basketball if you look around the NBA, the point guards assume more roles than just playmaking. They attack the rim like slasher wings, they shoot 3, they look for contact, they look for open man, they push the tempo etc. Westbrook, Lillard, Curry, Wall etc. Even the non-traditional PGs like Giannis falls under same category. Russell can't do half of those things I just counted. Clarkson could and did. Hence we likened his game to Westbrook's at the time. If we made Clarkson the PG, and had Nick as the shooter type player who could defend, it would work. Ingram at SF, Randle at PF.
 
Clarkson
Nick
Ingram
Randle
Noel
 
push the tempo, pick & roll, hit the open man. Works better than what we currently we have.

There is 0.0001% chance that this happens and for good reason

#20 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,537 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:LACAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic-Kobe or Kobe-Magic

Posted January 16, 2017 - 10:16 AM

I always said Russell was a scorer. It was people that didn't really watch him that thought he'd be averaging 10 assists a game.

He needs a passer and shooter next to him. Rondo or MCW would be terrible because they aren't a threat to knock down the three. If you watch him in college, his team consisted off all shooters that shared the ball really well. That's what he needs here.

 

I watched Russ in college and agree with your assessment however FO drafted him on his playmaking, maybe they were wrong, not in the pick but to why they drafted him. RR and MCW were simply 2 pass first PG's that came to mind that may be available. Perhaps moving JC to PG? Or using BI as the playmaker kind of like how MIL is using the Greek Freak.


Edited by LACAS, January 16, 2017 - 10:56 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users