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Who do you pick?


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#1101 Majesty

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 08:49 AM

Monk won't go higher than 5th, maybe even 7th.

 

Jackson has some mental issues also...

 

Tatum doesn't have the ceiling of Jackson or Smith...much like Okafor vs Towns or Russell.

 

Fox is better than Monk...I'd pick him over Monk easily...I'd pick Fultz/Ball/Smith over Monk also.

 

 

As for 28th, Ferguson won't be there...he's being mocked 15-20th...

Tatum has as high a ceiling if not higher than Jackson or Smith tbh. 

But ceilings aren't everything.  But Tatum has a pretty darn solid ceiling. 

That said, I lean towards Jackson over him only slightly, but I definitely have him over Smith.   I also have Fox and Monk higher than Smith as well. 

The obvious stuff about Smith that bothers me 

 

 https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=3m

https://youtu.be/YCUHKhywGJ8?t=2m7s Can't beat a PF off dribble 
https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=1m36s Matt Jones is able to harrass him up the court, then he can't get a step on him with a nice crossover move - look at the replays that play - Matt Jones is right with him... Matt Jones is not a great athlete. 

This is what you see with him 90% of the time this season, and some degree of this level of defense on it. And I have to watch more, but I don't think he was quick in high school either.

via KiRoE

 

KIROE made a comment about his initial quickness that I wasn't able to see. Every game I watch of DSJ before he scores has this pattern: 


1. Attacks left or right on first step. 
2. Defender meets him with good position on initial step. 
3. DSJ immediately changes direction (this is the only way he gets shots off) 
4. Continues with drive or step back which leads to shot. 
5. Shot is highly contested. 

That, combined with lack of WS, and I was done.

 

via Mike@LG

 



Stuff like that makes me worry about him translating effectiveness at the next level.  Those are the kind of things that worry me.  

I currently have Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Monk, Fox over Smith Jr. 
 


Edited by Majesty, April 21, 2017 - 08:53 AM.

"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#1102 GCMD

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 08:57 AM

Fox vs Monk...

 

 

 

IMHO, not even close.  Both are great athletes and both will do well in the NBA but Fox will have an easier time creating his own shot and getting to the rim while Monk is a better shooter right now.

 

You could make a case for Fox over Dennis Smith...I don't think you can do the same for Monk...


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#1103 kidpolean

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:02 AM

Smith imo is easily the 3rd best guard in this draft

Tatum isn't even in my top 5, I'd take Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Smith, Monk, and Fox over him

#1104 Majesty

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:03 AM

Fox vs Monk...

 

 

 

IMHO, not even close.  Both are great athletes and both will do well in the NBA but Fox will have an easier time creating his own shot and getting to the rim while Monk is a better shooter right now.

 

You could make a case for Fox over Dennis Smith...I don't think you can do the same for Monk...


Here's something better to watch about Monk, lot's more information  ;) 

 


"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#1105 GCMD

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:24 AM

Tatum has as high a ceiling if not higher than Jackson or Smith tbh. 

But ceilings aren't everything.  But Tatum has a pretty darn solid ceiling. 

That said, I lean towards Jackson over him only slightly, but I definitely have him over Smith.   I also have Fox and Monk higher than Smith as well. 

The obvious stuff about Smith that bothers me 

 

 https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=3m

https://youtu.be/YCUHKhywGJ8?t=2m7s Can't beat a PF off dribble 
https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=1m36s Matt Jones is able to harrass him up the court, then he can't get a step on him with a nice crossover move - look at the replays that play - Matt Jones is right with him... Matt Jones is not a great athlete. 

This is what you see with him 90% of the time this season, and some degree of this level of defense on it. And I have to watch more, but I don't think he was quick in high school either.

via KiRoE

 

KIROE made a comment about his initial quickness that I wasn't able to see. Every game I watch of DSJ before he scores has this pattern: 


1. Attacks left or right on first step. 
2. Defender meets him with good position on initial step. 
3. DSJ immediately changes direction (this is the only way he gets shots off) 
4. Continues with drive or step back which leads to shot. 
5. Shot is highly contested. 

That, combined with lack of WS, and I was done.

 

via Mike@LG

 



Stuff like that makes me worry about him translating effectiveness at the next level.  Those are the kind of things that worry me.  

I currently have Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Monk, Fox over Smith Jr. 
 

 

You must not have watched those videos you posted.  They weren't playing 1-on-1.  There was help in front of the rim...I'd have liked to see him attack and drop the floater in there but that's not even CLOSE to being the same as him not being able to beat a PF or Matt Jones.

 

Tatum has a high ceiling?  LOL...sure...but not NEARLY as high as Jackson or Smith or Ball or Fultz or Fox...maybe even Monk...Tatum has skill and size but he's not an elite level athlete.  Could he become an AllStar?  Sure...but I'd be more surprised if he became a franchise player some day than ANY of the players I listed above.


Edited by GCMD, April 21, 2017 - 09:38 AM.

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#1106 DanishLakerFan

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:31 AM

He'd solve a LOT of our problems offensively. He's one of the hardest players to guard off the bounce in this draft, period. If he improves his outside shooting, he's guaranteed to be an Allstar...

If Ball and Smith are there at 3, I'm sure LaVar Ball will say something stupid that will make me just wash my hands of the father and the son...


I'd be perfectly fine with Smith/Russell/Ingram moving forward...add a legit stretch 4 or an Ibaka-type shot blocking/defensive 4 (Jordan Bell) and I see this team surprising a LOT of people.


Dennis Smith perhaps shouldnt even be picked in the top 10, much less top 3.

If we are lucky enough to keep the pick we should simply convert the layup and pick either Fultz, Ball or Jackson.

#1107 GCMD

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:33 AM

Here's something better to watch about Monk, lot's more information   ;)

 

 

Dude, that's like watching paint dry.  Or better yet, it's like sitting in an elementary school Math Class when you have a PhD and a Noble Prize in Math.

 

There was nothing new there that you couldn't see from his film.  He's got good footwork and body control and elite level athleticism.  He's going to be a VERY good SG...but he doesn't have the shake or shiftiness that Fox or Fultz or Smith or Ball has.  He's going to be a great scorer, but it will be because he's a great shooter, not a Kobe-Type Scorer.

 

It's like comparing Curry and Klay...you can't.  Both can shoot but Curry can score in anyway you need him to.  Fox has a much better handle on leading a team also.

 

We could draft Fox at #3 and I wouldn't even be mad.  He could be a NIGHTMARE backcourt with Russell...Monk?  I don't think he'd be CLOSE to BPA at 3 and I don't see the same results from a Russell/Monk backcourt...Russell would once again be depended on to create most of the offense for himself and others...not ideal.


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#1108 GCMD

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:36 AM

Dennis Smith perhaps shouldnt even be picked in the top 10, much less top 3.

If we are lucky enough to keep the pick we should simply convert the layup and pick either Fultz, Ball or Jackson.

 

Smoke...no fire.  You just threw a statement out there with no support, details or evidence and expect meaningful conversation?  LOL...you're better than that, my friend. 

 

Why shouldn't Smith be picked in the top 10?  This should be interesting...

giphy.gif


Edited by GCMD, April 21, 2017 - 09:36 AM.

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#1109 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 10:03 AM

I'll take Fox and Smith over Ball any day. IMO Fox is the second best guard in the draft behind Fultz.

Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, April 21, 2017 - 10:18 AM.

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#1110 Majesty

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 10:53 AM

Dude, that's like watching paint dry.  Or better yet, it's like sitting in an elementary school Math Class when you have a PhD and a Noble Prize in Math.

 

There was nothing new there that you couldn't see from his film.  He's got good footwork and body control and elite level athleticism.  He's going to be a VERY good SG...but he doesn't have the shake or shiftiness that Fox or Fultz or Smith or Ball has.  He's going to be a great scorer, but it will be because he's a great shooter, not a Kobe-Type Scorer.

 

It's like comparing Curry and Klay...you can't.  Both can shoot but Curry can score in anyway you need him to.  Fox has a much better handle on leading a team also.

 

We could draft Fox at #3 and I wouldn't even be mad.  He could be a NIGHTMARE backcourt with Russell...Monk?  I don't think he'd be CLOSE to BPA at 3 and I don't see the same results from a Russell/Monk backcourt...Russell would once again be depended on to create most of the offense for himself and others...not ideal.

Monk's shortcomings are going to hinder him less at point guard than Smith Jr's inability yo beat PF's off the dribble

 

as I said, these things, are the kings of things that make me worry about how he'll translate

 

 https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=3m

https://youtu.be/YCUHKhywGJ8?t=2m7s Can't beat a PF off dribble 
https://youtu.be/dInkJ0CzYpo?t=1m36s Matt Jones is able to harrass him up the court, then he can't get a step on him with a nice crossover move - look at the replays that play - Matt Jones is right with him... Matt Jones is not a great athlete. 

This is what you see with him 90% of the time this season, and some degree of this level of defense on it. And I have to watch more, but I don't think he was quick in high school either.

via KiRoE

 

KIROE made a comment about his initial quickness that I wasn't able to see. Every game I watch of DSJ before he scores has this pattern: 

 

1. Attacks left or right on first step. 
2. Defender meets him with good position on initial step. 
3. DSJ immediately changes direction (this is the only way he gets shots off) 
4. Continues with drive or step back which leads to shot. 
5. Shot is highly contested. 

That, combined with lack of WS, and I was done.

 

via Mike@LG

 

 

So unless you have an answer for then we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Edited by Majesty, April 21, 2017 - 10:55 AM.

"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#1111 GCMD

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:03 AM

We need better run-jump athletes.  

We need more defensive minded forwards.

We need guys who know how to play withOUT the ball.

 

 

And above all, we need a true floor general so Russell doesn't have to try to score AND create.

 

 

I have been an advocate of punting on any player that doesn't meet those criteria for the past 2 years...now that we don't have Kobe AND we have Luke as our coach, these things are easier and less "exotic".


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#1112 Majesty

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:27 AM

We need better run-jump athletes.  

We need more defensive minded forwards.

We need guys who know how to play withOUT the ball.

 

 

And above all, we need a true floor general so Russell doesn't have to try to score AND create.

 

You just described Josh Jackson, as well as Markelle Fultz and Lonzo ball, who do all of those things better than Smith. 


"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#1113 kidpolean

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:38 AM

You just described Josh Jackson, as well as Markelle Fultz and Lonzo ball, who do all of those things better than Smith.

I don't think that anybody argued that Smith was better than any of those guys unless I missed something

Edited by kidpolean, April 21, 2017 - 11:40 AM.


#1114 Majesty

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:41 AM

I don't think that anybody argued that Smith was better than any of those guys unless I missed something

He said essentially that Smith should be in the discussion for Top 3.  


"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#1115 kidpolean

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:46 AM

He said essentially that Smith should be in the discussion for Top 3.

I agree as of right now but workouts can change things. I'd put Smith in the discussion with Ball and Jackson. I don't think anybody is even close to Fultz though.

#1116 BasketballIQ

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:46 AM

He'd solve a LOT of our problems offensively. He's one of the hardest players to guard off the bounce in this draft, period. If he improves his outside shooting, he's guaranteed to be an Allstar...

If Ball and Smith are there at 3, I'm sure LaVar Ball will say something stupid that will make me just wash my hands of the father and the son...


I'd be perfectly fine with Smith/Russell/Ingram moving forward...add a legit stretch 4 or an Ibaka-type shot blocking/defensive 4 (Jordan Bell) and I see this team surprising a LOT of people.


No rookie is going to solve anything. Period

#1117 DanishLakerFan

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 11:50 AM

Smoke...no fire. You just threw a statement out there with no support, details or evidence and expect meaningful conversation? LOL...you're better than that, my friend.

Why shouldn't Smith be picked in the top 10? This should be interesting...
giphy.gif


Smith is great at nothing, hogs the ball, doesnt play good defense, lousy feel for the game, short arms and cant shoot all that well. All the stuff you dislike about Randle, basically.

Outside the top 10 of course is a stretch but id put him in 9-11 spot after:

1-3: Fultz, Ball, Jackson.
4-8: Lauri, Monk, Fox, Isaac, Tatum

Draftexpress has him 9th.

#1118 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 05:50 PM

Workouts can change anything.

#1119 DanishLakerFan

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 08:25 PM

No rookie is going to solve anything. Period

Dont be stupid. 

 

Obviously, most rookies takes time to develop, but a rookie could fill a need in the backcourt and grow with the rest of the team.

 

OR be traded for a star that would solve a lot.

 

Period.



#1120 DanishLakerFan

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Posted April 21, 2017 - 09:06 PM

Here's something better to watch about Monk, lot's more information   ;)

 

Monk is interesting and would be a pretty solid fit offensively since he seems to be an elite shot-maker, which we need. Projects to be a better version of CJ McCollum, basically. But much like McCollum, the issue with Monk is on the defensive end. He's still quite young and still super athletic, so he could be better than CJ. But i dont think he'll ever be "good" on that end. 

 

I honestly dont think the choice is that difficult. At #1 we go BPA between Fultz/Ball. At #2 we take whoever is left between the two and at #3 we should go with Josh JAckson. Imagine Justice Winslow, but taller, stronger, better defensively, with a 3pt shot and ability to create for others. How is that NOT what we need?


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