Jump to content


Photo

2017 NBA Lottery / Draft


  • Please log in to reply
4943 replies to this topic

#1721 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • Member
  • 23,203 posts
  • Location:LA

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:26 AM

Well here's the thing. Very reputable scouts are split. I've seen 50% say he's a generational talent and the other 50 say he's essentially the 4th best player in the draft

It's about who you believe. He does have similarities to Jason Kidd. Similar athletic ability, similar style, similar questions out of college. But the games also different now and I won't jump to the all time great kidd out of college

But the potential is absolutely there.

Fox has intriguing athleticism but I don't see it with him. It's weird that at his athletic ability he's not #1. I mean consider he's essentially the same size as fultz and a lot more athletic
Posted Image

#1722 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:29 AM

Here's why I don't worry about ANY of Lonzo's current weaknesses...

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the same age, Lonzo is a better prospect than Kidd, IMHO...and I'm a Jason Kidd fan.

 

 

Just for people who are way too young to remember Kidd in college (man, I'm getting old), here's a video of his game against Duke...

 

 

 

 

Eery, right?

 

Where was Jason Kidd drafted?

 

 

#2

 

 


Well here's the thing. Very reputable scouts are split. I've seen 50% say he's a generational talent and the other 50 say he's essentially the 4th best player in the draft

It's about who you believe. He does have similarities to Jason Kidd. Similar athletic ability, similar style, similar questions out of college. But the games also different now and I won't jump to the all time great kidd out of college

But the potential is absolutely there.

Fox has intriguing athleticism but I don't see it with him. It's weird that at his athletic ability he's not #1. I mean consider he's essentially the same size as fultz and a lot more athletic

 

 

Ball develops a mid range shot, perfects the P&R and he's easily the best player in this draft.  You think that's impossible?  With those improvements, he's the face of the franchise for the foreseeable future.

 

You think he can't do that?  He's a reported gym rat.  No reason to think he won't keep improving.  He's got the body and the athleticism and the talent.


Edited by GCMD, May 19, 2017 - 12:20 PM.

tenor.gif


#1723 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:30 AM

what is Fultz?

 

See Brandon Roy...undersized 2 or a combo guard.  I would not classify him as a pure PG.  Ball and Fox are.


tenor.gif


#1724 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • Member
  • 23,203 posts
  • Location:LA

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:34 AM

Disagree he's a better prospect than kidd. I think he's about the same. I mean you could argue balls shot puts him ahead but I'd argue kidd was a much more hard nosed player
Posted Image

#1725 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:43 AM

Disagree he's a better prospect than kidd. I think he's about the same. I mean you could argue balls shot puts him ahead but I'd argue kidd was a much more hard nosed player

 

 

Taller

Longer

More Athletic

Similar if not same PG polish

Better shot

Better Rebounder...

 

http://www.sports-re...son-kidd-1.html

http://www.sports-re...nzo-ball-1.html

 

I wasn't making it up.  Kidd had that same "IT" factor Ball has.  Not saying Ball will be as successful as Kidd but he's got the game and all of the measurables to put him position to be a great player.


tenor.gif


#1726 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • Member
  • 23,203 posts
  • Location:LA

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:44 AM

Ball can jump higher but I'd argue kidd had a much quicker first step

Also kidd was a powerful guy coming out and a better defender
Posted Image

#1727 LakeShow1o1

LakeShow1o1

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 7,094 posts
  • Name:The Black Mamba Will Rise
  • Fan Since:1996
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted May 19, 2017 - 11:52 AM

I don't understand why many people view Lonzo as an average athlete with no speed.

 

He's certainly not as fast as say John Wall, Westbrook, or guys in that class, but he's a tremendous athlete with a good amount of bounce and is also faster than alot of guards in this league.  


  • FranklinPeanuts, GCMD, martin90 and 1 other like this

#1728 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 12:01 PM

Where was Jason Kidd drafted?

 

 

#2


  • FranklinPeanuts likes this

tenor.gif


#1729 Jackson

Jackson

    Legend

  • Member
  • 10,101 posts
  • Location:Honolulu, Hawaii
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant/Kareem/Sasha(LOL)

Posted May 19, 2017 - 12:12 PM

I like Ball and always have but I think people don't understand what type of player he is.  He's not a LEAD guard.  He's going to get assist like Draymond does.  There is a difference in how Draymond/Griffin rack up assist vs John Wall and Russell Westbrook.  He's going to be a secondary creator in halfcourt and can be a PG in early offense and transition. 

 

You want to pair that type of guy with a scoring lead guard.  Russell fits this mold.  The worry is defense. 

Massive worry. And nothing tells me that our current guys will be supreme offensive machines that we can always outscore our opponents. We need guys with defensive potential. Ingram is a start, but it doesn't simply stop at him. We need a wing that can bother the other teams player, as well as being able to score. Good offense plus solid defense will win games. Right now we're going to have a decent offense with all these young guys but absolutely no defense whatsoever.


Edited by Jackson, May 19, 2017 - 12:13 PM.


#1730 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,159 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:CAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 12:16 PM

Where was Jason Kidd drafted?

 

 

#2

 

GCMD, you are making a hell of a case for Ball...  which leads me to the following question for you... If IND called you and said we know you want PG, its going to take Ball or Russell + fillers, which of the two would you give up and why?



#1731 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 12:22 PM

GCMD, you are making a hell of a case for Ball...  which leads me to the following question for you... If IND called you and said we know you want PG, its going to take Ball or Russell + fillers, which of the two would you give up and why?

 

 

Russell and it wouldn't even be close.  You can surround Ball with shooters and finishers...Russell IS a shooter and finisher right now within this offense.  PG13 is a BETTER scorer than Russell but he's NOT a floor general.

 

No hesitation, Ball over Russell.


  • UKUGA and LACAS like this

tenor.gif


#1732 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,159 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:CAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 12:27 PM

Russell and it wouldn't even be close.  You can surround Ball with shooters and finishers...Russell IS a shooter and finisher right now within this offense.  PG13 is a BETTER scorer than Russell but he's NOT a floor general.

 

No hesitation, Ball over Russell.

 

No hesitation on making the trade?


  • GCMD likes this

#1733 Ventiquattro

Ventiquattro

    All-Star

  • Member
  • 6,556 posts
  • Location:Unknown

Posted May 19, 2017 - 02:18 PM

Well it's easy to say if a player works on this and that he'd be the best in the draft. I could make similar argument for tons of draftees...

Edited by Ventiquattro, May 19, 2017 - 02:19 PM.


#1734 UKUGA

UKUGA

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 7,411 posts
  • Location:22033
  • Name:UKUGA
  • Fan Since:1981
  • Fav. Laker:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Posted May 19, 2017 - 02:36 PM

It's always amazing to me when people talk about Ball's weaknesses and then suggest Fox is the answer, they ignore Fox's weaknesses.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CS11HzYsSPs


I know people hate LaVar but that shouldn't color how you see Lonzo...Ball is the BEST PG in this draft, period. If you want a scorer, pick Malik Monk...don't pick Fox expecting him to be better than Ball latter because Ball is already better and can BECOME better, just like Fox can BECOME better.


It goes both ways. There's a lot of people ignoring Ball's weaknesses, as well.

They both have strengths. They both have weaknesses.

Hopefully, the one the Lakers draft has a great career as a Laker. I don't really care what the other one does after that.
  • Ventiquattro likes this

Don't feed the trolls. 


#1735 LakeShow1o1

LakeShow1o1

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 7,094 posts
  • Name:The Black Mamba Will Rise
  • Fan Since:1996
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bean Bryant

Posted May 19, 2017 - 02:43 PM

Pretty significant stat posted by Lakerfilmroom.

Of course TS% isn't a defining stat and predicate of what a player will become, but at that usage rate, it shows how efficient Lonzo is.

 

2a82rd3.png


  • FranklinPeanuts and GCMD like this

#1736 LACAS

LACAS

    Off The Bench

  • Member
  • 2,159 posts
  • Location:When the La-La hits you...
  • Name:CAS
  • Fan Since:Birth
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 02:47 PM

Hopefully, the one the Lakers draft has a great career as a Laker. I don't really care what the other one does after that.

 

This!



#1737 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 04:18 PM

No hesitation on making the trade?

 

Absolutely none.

 

Well it's easy to say if a player works on this and that he'd be the best in the draft. I could make similar argument for tons of draftees...

 

Well, look at Fox.  He's got a LOT more to work on than Ball.  How are you going to make a case he will work on his and claim that Ball couldn't work his?

 

Right now, Ball is the better prospect.  Is he perfect?  No...but he's got more to work with going forward than Fox.

 

It goes both ways. There's a lot of people ignoring Ball's weaknesses, as well.

They both have strengths. They both have weaknesses.

Hopefully, the one the Lakers draft has a great career as a Laker. I don't really care what the other one does after that.

 

See above.  Fox has a lot of PG skills he needs to work on.  Ball needs to work on scoring but his skills as a PG are clear more well defined than anyone else in this draft (with Fultz being the best scorer).

 

So if you're basing it off weaknesses, you can plug 'n play Ball right now and get a serviceable PG.  Fox?  You can get a decent scorer with POTENTIAL to be a great PG but he's not as close as Ball.  Add to it that Ball has the size and NBA Range on his J to play the off guard spot...Fox doesn't.

 

Fox has some of the SAME weaknesses as Ball but Ball has strengths that Fox doesn't (PG Polish and outside shooting and court vision).

 

I'd be happy with either but if I had to choose, I'd choose Ball...for good reason.

 

Pretty significant stat posted by Lakerfilmroom.

Of course TS% isn't a defining stat and predicate of what a player will become, but at that usage rate, it shows how efficient Lonzo is.

 

2a82rd3.png

 

 

Actually not surprised by this list...makes sense.  Fultz is a combo guard or a small 2...not surprised he's not higher.

 

That True Shooting % vs USG% ratio for Ball is outrageous!  Over 3.5:1 !!!!  That means that he is a VERY efficient scorer per play run for him...it's kinda dispels the myth that he's "not a good scorer"...looks like he parallels Kidd in not LOOKING for his own shot but being able to score when he needs to.

 

Doesn't matter.  At #2, we are getting a really good player, most likely a franchise player.  Can't really complain.


tenor.gif


#1738 kidpolean

kidpolean

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,037 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted May 19, 2017 - 04:18 PM

Pretty significant stat posted by Lakerfilmroom.
Of course TS% isn't a defining stat and predicate of what a player will become, but at that usage rate, it shows how efficient Lonzo is.

2a82rd3.png

Not trying to discredit anything Ball has done but with a lower usage rate you should be more efficient. And once again, the majority of his points come from dunks and transition layups.

Ball is a unique prospect and because if that I'd be careful when looking at his stats. His stats don't really reflect his playstyle. He's an extremely, and at times overly, passive player which helps keep his fg% high. Just because you don't take contested shots, doesn't mean you are a good scorer. As Jody pointed out, at the NBA level this guy will never be a #1. With that said, I'd take him second because he may not ever be a #1 but he may be able to be a key guy that is very effective.

My biggest problem with him is that transition play is his best asset. How will that translate to the NBA? Can he dominate in transition against NBA level and if he does how much of a difference will that even make in a game?

Edited by kidpolean, May 19, 2017 - 04:27 PM.


#1739 GCMD

GCMD

    Legend

  • Member
  • 12,806 posts
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted May 19, 2017 - 04:27 PM

Not trying to discredit anything Ball has done but with a lower usage rate you should be more efficient.

 

 

See Kris Dunn...lost usage...lowest true shooting %.  Not a direct parallel.

 

And TS% accounts for that...it's an impressive ratio.


tenor.gif


#1740 kidpolean

kidpolean

    Superstar

  • Member
  • 8,037 posts
  • Fan Since:I was born
  • Fav. Laker:KB24 or 8

Posted May 19, 2017 - 04:35 PM

See Kris Dunn...lost usage...lowest true shooting %. Not a direct parallel.

And TS% accounts for that...it's an impressive ratio.

He was the best player in college basketball this year and is the second best prospect. Picking him is a no brainer unless Fultz is somehow on the board. I'm fully expecting us to draft him but I seriously doubt he'll have the impact that you suggest.

I'm not sure how ts% is calculated. I ask you this, do you agree that the vast majority of his shots were uncontested layups and dunks? That makes a difference!

I seriously doubt he's going to be able to dominate in transition the way he did in college or get so many alley oops. There are a ton of red flags on this guy that shouldn't be ignored.

Edited by kidpolean, May 19, 2017 - 04:36 PM.





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Google (1)