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How would you restructure this team?


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#1 Tensai

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 08:34 AM

This is Year 3 in the rebuilding period, with Clarkson's 3rd year and 2 years for D'Angelo, Randle and Nance Jr.

 

Cut to the chase, defense is horrible. Even with Mozgov, Deng and super contribution by Nick, it is horrible. The 4 names I've named above are not good defenders, Clarkson looks to be the worst among them. But we gotta have defense. It is inexplicable how much trouble our collective lack of ability to defend is causing us. With players like Lou you can find offense in this league, but defensively we don't have it. We don't have that one guy like Gobert or Anthony Davis. So I say if we are gonna restructure this team at one point, why not now? What are we waiting for?

 

I draw the line for untouchables at Ingram, Russell and Young. Even Lou is tradeable with his stock must be all time high right now.


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#2 Ventiquattro

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 09:06 AM

To me this is year 1 in rebuilding. You guys just have to be patient. It is an unchartered territory because we were spoiled with Kobe's dominance for around 12 years.

 

Defense is an issue but for the time being,but I dont think there's any other option than to trust our guys to play defense as a group.

 

 

Im extremely content with Russell( though he's been underwhelming this season, but his absence showed how much he was missed) , Young, Lou , Black and Trob.

 

 

I expected better games from Ingram and Clarkson tbh. Russell wasnt as bad as Ingram in his rookie year but I understand that rookies start their careers with different paths. The latter is a different story: I have no [expletive]ing clue whats wrong him this season. Yeah he is 4th best scorer off the bench in the NBA but he's turned to be extremely selfish and only pass when he "HAS" to. Ingram displays similar behavior.

 

The rest are fine for the moment imo.

 

I dont think there should be any trades made just yet. Team was missing some vital pieces that led to the losing streak. 

 

We werent suppose to win as much as we did so far. The hot start changed the expectations and made people nervous when losses start piling up.

 

"" Investor Ralph Wagoner once explained how markets work, recalled by Bill Bernstein: "He likens the market to an excitable dog on a very long leash in New York City, darting randomly in every direction. The dog's owner is walking from Columbus Circle, through Central Park, to the Metropolitan Museum. At any one moment, there is no predicting which way the pooch will lurch. But in the long run, you know he's heading northeast at an average speed of three miles per hour. What is astonishing is that almost all of the market players, big and small, seem to have their eye on the dog, and not the owner."""

 

I quoted this before and I'll quote it again.


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#3 manaro90

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 11:48 AM

so much optimism after the first 8-9 games and now this..

 

its pretty awul to watch right now because we are going nowhere right now..

 

even if we have a solid young foundation and a great motivatior in luke walton WE ARE GOING NOWHERE..


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#4 Jody Smokes

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 01:01 PM

Lol the team doesn't need to be restructured.  What needs to be restructured is fans EXPECTATIONS of a young team. 


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"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#5 Jody Smokes

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 01:03 PM

The team has been out of sorts due to some injuries.  Young teams take time to adjust.  Now when they burn off a 3-4 game winning streak I wonder what type of threads will pop up then.  


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"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#6 The Big Fish

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 02:47 PM

Keep the roster as is for this season. Starting next year though, some major evaluations and forecasting will need to take place. I hope the young guys continue to improve and nut up on the defensive end of the floor... eventually. 


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#7 JayTheGreat

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 02:50 PM

We need to address the [expletive]ing defense. We need some perimeter defenders besides Nick.
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#8 Jody Smokes

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 04:15 PM

Well what do you suggest?  Do you trade the young players for a defensive player?  What's the real trade off? 

 

Ingram should eventually get better on defense.  Randle has some utility on D as well.  Not everything can be "addressed" that easy. 

 

We need to address the [expletive]ing defense. We need some perimeter defenders besides Nick.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#9 Disaster in Paradise

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 04:27 PM

Get rid of everything. Luke, Russell, Clarkson. Nothing is working.
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#10 reryo

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 05:02 PM

Wait 4-5 years for Russell/Ingram to come into form, the chemistry to flourish, and the Cavs/Warriors to decline. 


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#11 Majesty

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 05:51 PM

I wouldn't. I'd let them grow and replace weak spots from guys that leave in the off-season with stronger ones that fit the team while building around the young talent.

And the defense isn't just a "fix one guy" kind of thing.  

The Spurs are a better defensive team when Kawhi is off the court.   Because of the team that surrounds him.  

So it's more or less gonna have to be a 5 man dedication to defense.  

That's right, the Spurs' defense gives up the most points per 100 possession, is at its worst statistically, when Leonard is on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but those are the numbers. San Antonio is significantly worse -- 14.8 points per 100 possessions, to be exact -- when he's on the floor. In other words, they go from downright bad on defense to elite when Leonard goes to the bench. So we've reached an impasse. We know Leonard is an elite defender. We know he's still locking up whoever he is facing. So how do we explain these numbers, the somewhat small sample size notwithstanding? 

Is it possible that Leonard is, in fact, too good a defender? 

Watching the Spurs' defense, the same pattern emerges. The opponent takes whoever Leonard is guarding to the corner and plays 4 on 4, often to great results. Much of this is because Leonard shares the court with Tony Parker and Pau Gasol, who simply can't contain in the pick and roll. This is the key component: As good as Leonard is, you can neutralize him. This wasn't possible in previous years because the rest of the Spurs' defense was so good. But now, with certain lineups, there are real weaknesses.

http://www.cbssports...ting-the-spurs/


Lovely perspective on Kawhi and the Spurs.   

If we wanna play defense it's gonna have to be a 5 man thing, and a 5 man scheme and a 5 man dedication that won't happen overnight. 


Edited by Majesty, December 13, 2016 - 06:15 PM.

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#12 Jody Smokes

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 05:58 PM

That makes too much sense to some.  That's not "improving"...that's standing pat and doing nothing as some see it

 

I wouldn't. I'd let them grow and replace weak spots from guys that leave in the off-season with stronger ones that fit the team while building around the young talent. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#13 bigvee

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 06:40 PM

Only move I'm with right now is trading Lou while his value is sky high. We have guys that can score, he's expendable.

It'll become easier to play defense when we stop turning over the ball. It's not as simple as add X defender and be a good defensive team. We're turning over the ball because we have a ton of guys who are learning how to play in an offense for the first time in their lives. Once we start to limit those, we'll be able to have some sort of defensive presence.

#14 ツ  

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 07:00 PM

Trade Lou or Deng for a defensive big like Noel.


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#15 Ventiquattro

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 08:36 PM

and do what with Mozgov ?



#16 Tensai

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 09:04 PM

Here are the facts.

 

1. There is no guarantee that this group will ever pan out.

2. Lakers are not the only team with big upside, so banking on bunch of first round picks may not be the smartest idea.

3. For every Warriors and Thunder, there are T'Wolves, Sixers.

 

So come back to reality:

 

And reality is that, this team sucks on defense. And you know what is worse? The coach emphasizes the hell out of defensive scheme, and they still can't do it. Other than Ingram, there is no one that has it. They only show the effort when they get their share on the offensive end. And that tells you all about the team chemistry.

 

We don't need five 20 years old to take this team to playoffs. We need a team to do it. And if that team consisted of 2-3 young players surrounded by proven veterans, then that's the way things should be. It is not the time to romanticize about the picks and upsides anymore. The sooner we face the reality, the better the product will be on the court.

 

If we are targeting Cousins in 2018, would it make sense to hold on to all these young players?

 

Cousins

Veteran

Ingram

Veteran

Russell

 

should work mighty fine if the veterans in the starting lineup were high IQ players that could play defense.


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#17 kidpolean

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 09:48 PM

I wouldn't. I'd let them grow and replace weak spots from guys that leave in the off-season with stronger ones that fit the team while building around the young talent.
And the defense isn't just a "fix one guy" kind of thing.  
The Spurs are a better defensive team when Kawhi is off the court.   Because of the team that surrounds him.  
So it's more or less gonna have to be a 5 man dedication to defense.  That's right, the Spurs' defense gives up the most points per 100 possession, is at its worst statistically, when Leonard is on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but those are the numbers. San Antonio is significantly worse -- 14.8 points per 100 possessions, to be exact -- when he's on the floor. In other words, they go from downright bad on defense to elite when Leonard goes to the bench. So we've reached an impasse. We know Leonard is an elite defender. We know he's still locking up whoever he is facing. So how do we explain these numbers, the somewhat small sample size notwithstanding? 
Is it possible that Leonard is, in fact, too good a defender? 
Watching the Spurs' defense, the same pattern emerges. The opponent takes whoever Leonard is guarding to the corner and plays 4 on 4, often to great results. Much of this is because Leonard shares the court with Tony Parker and Pau Gasol, who simply can't contain in the pick and roll. This is the key component: As good as Leonard is, you can neutralize him. This wasn't possible in previous years because the rest of the Spurs' defense was so good. But now, with certain lineups, there are real weaknesses.
http://www.cbssports...ting-the-spurs/
Lovely perspective on Kawhi and the Spurs.   
If we wanna play defense it's gonna have to be a 5 man thing, and a 5 man scheme and a 5 man dedication that won't happen overnight.

Dude, stop making sense! Join in on the collective panic.

#18 Klewfish

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 10:02 PM

We eventually need to replace Mozgov with a more mobile center that can actually play in the 4th quarter and block shots. I would love to see Gorgui Dieng in this offense. He can be an elite rim protector, and is an underrated passer who could function like Bogut did in Golden State. 


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#19 Ventiquattro

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Posted December 13, 2016 - 10:40 PM

Okc made to the finals with a young group of guys.

Golden state won with them drafting their 4 starters.

Common theme ? Both teams took time to get there. Took Durant 5 years while curry had waited for 7 years.

This team is young and there learning their way, as is their coach. Down the road, Mitch or the next GM will make the necessary adjustments after they see how everyone grows/performs.


If this team land anywhere between 9 and 12, it would definitely be the best season since the 2010 championship.
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#20 kball

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Posted December 14, 2016 - 05:38 AM

Damn Maj, that post had me rethinking everything. Now i have to go watch a few spurs games this week to look closer.

 

I'd keep some of our young guys but trade some for talented stars too.

 

And this talk of trading Lou boggles my mind.

He has been, by far, the best laker this season.

And looks to be only getting better on a really decent contract.

Prefer him retire as a laker tbh


Edited by kball, December 14, 2016 - 05:39 AM.

Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 





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