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#241 kball

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Posted April 07, 2017 - 05:32 AM

League's other coaches better start coming up with THE WESTBROOK RULES, like Pistons did with MJ.

 

RW just gets to wherever he wants whenever he wants and joins a very exclusive list of players ive watched do that over the years including

Magic

MJ

Kobe

Iverson

Nash

Steph Curry

Harden


Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#242 bigfetz

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Posted April 09, 2017 - 03:50 PM

Westbrook might have just clinched MVP with that last game. 50 point triple double to break the triple double single season record and puts up a game winner 3 from 40 feet. Insane. 


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#243 PhillyLaker24

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Posted April 09, 2017 - 07:33 PM

I wasn't around Jordan's prime so I wouldn't comment but from what I can tell Westbrook's accomplishment cannot be shrugged off as just another "statistical monster season". If you watch the games, he literally makes the other team bow down to him thru sheer will. In past 20 years Shaq, Kobe, Lebron and Steph (last year) are the only ones I've come accross with that type of domination.

 

That being said I think Westbrook this season is up there with 2005-2007 Kobe. Kobe did it on his own way at that time scoring 17 (sixteeen) 50+ points spanning two seasons, which in itself would be equal to third most all time. Westbrook in last two seasons has 59 triple doubles (5th most all time - tying Larry Bird). Just ridiculous.

 

If Russ was 3 inches taller he easily would have a case as best ever to be on the court. Having the rings matters for legacy, but in terms of sheer play if he was taller one can only imagine the dominant numbers he would have. 

 

Russ deserves MVP hands down. Half way through the season Harden was a vote I could understand, but now it isn't even close. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, April 09, 2017 - 07:34 PM.

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#244 Tensai

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Posted April 09, 2017 - 08:24 PM

He is exactly how Kobe was in his prime man. I didn't think we would see someone play this dominant so soon, but what a story. Anyone who underestimates him on the court would be foolish.

 

Kobe on Westbrook 3 years ago:

 

 

Bryant told ESPN on Thursday that only Westbrook is close to him in terms of intensity. Bryant explained that Westbrook “plays with a rage that’s not very common.”

 

 

“Russell is probably the closest one to me in terms of playing with a chip on your shoulder,” Bryant said earlier in the 2014-15 season. “It’s his intensity. He just plays with a rage that’s not very common. He just plays with a lot of aggression.”


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#245 Tensai

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Posted April 09, 2017 - 09:11 PM

Westbrook this season:

 

- 1st in total points scored (1st in ppg)

- 2nd in total assists (3rd in apg)

- 6th in total steals (10th in spg)

- 8th in total rebounds (10th in rpg)


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#246 stillshining

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Posted April 09, 2017 - 11:14 PM

If Russ was 3 inches taller he easily would have a case as best ever to be on the court. Having the rings matters for legacy, but in terms of sheer play if he was taller one can only imagine the dominant numbers he would have.

Russ deserves MVP hands down. Half way through the season Harden was a vote I could understand, but now it isn't even close.

Naa I'm not going to go that far, his sheer ability to fill up the stat sheet is uncommon and can be matched up with anyone but adding three inches to him won't get his basketball ability up there to that level. Even with his amazing season this year the best argument you can make for him is being the third best player after LeBron and Durant. He's having the best season and maybe the best statistical regular season ever but let's not go too far

#247 PhillyLaker24

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Posted April 10, 2017 - 07:25 AM

Naa I'm not going to go that far, his sheer ability to fill up the stat sheet is uncommon and can be matched up with anyone but adding three inches to him won't get his basketball ability up there to that level. Even with his amazing season this year the best argument you can make for him is being the third best player after LeBron and Durant. He's having the best season and maybe the best statistical regular season ever but let's not go too far

 

Because of his size you say that. If he was the size of those guys he would be doing everything they do and more. Out of the top ten players to ever do it no one below 6'6 is even in that convo because dominating the game on both ends is much harder at a smaller size. Basketball is a game of size plain and simple. We just watched a 6'3 guy average a triple double while leading the league in scoring. He has grabbed more rebounds this season than Lebron has in any season of Lebron's career! 

 

We have seen a lot of one man shows in the NBA over the years. From a young MJ, a prime Kobe when we had Smush Parker, and LBJ with the Cavs early in his career. However, we have never seen someone at this size dominate like this guy. Hell, we havent seen anyone of any size dominate the stat sheet like him since the 60's! He gets to wherever he wants on the floor, plays great defense, is a play maker and rebounds like a big. If he was 6'8 like the other guys you mention he would look other worldly in comparison.

 

As someone has already said, he is the ultimate competitor. He said he could never ever think about sitting a game. When he goes out there he gives 100% every time. If he had a few more inches are 25 more pounds its hard to comprehend what he would look like out there. With what he has done this season IDK if its even a stretch to say it would be Mike like because in my mind he would certainly be close to having that type of dominance. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, April 10, 2017 - 07:35 AM.

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#248 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 10, 2017 - 09:29 AM

Because of his size you say that. If he was the size of those guys he would be doing everything they do and more. Out of the top ten players to ever do it no one below 6'6 is even in that convo because dominating the game on both ends is much harder at a smaller size. Basketball is a game of size plain and simple. We just watched a 6'3 guy average a triple double while leading the league in scoring. He has grabbed more rebounds this season than Lebron has in any season of Lebron's career!

We have seen a lot of one man shows in the NBA over the years. From a young MJ, a prime Kobe when we had Smush Parker, and LBJ with the Cavs early in his career. However, we have never seen someone at this size dominate like this guy. Hell, we havent seen anyone of any size dominate the stat sheet like him since the 60's! He gets to wherever he wants on the floor, plays great defense, is a play maker and rebounds like a big. If he was 6'8 like the other guys you mention he would look other worldly in comparison.

As someone has already said, he is the ultimate competitor. He said he could never ever think about sitting a game. When he goes out there he gives 100% every time. If he had a few more inches are 25 more pounds its hard to comprehend what he would look like out there. With what he has done this season IDK if its even a stretch to say it would be Mike like because in my mind he would certainly be close to having that type of dominance.


Has nothing to do with size. His production this year happened regardless of size.

That's basically implying that greatness is totally aesthetic

Him not being in the discussion for the greatest is more of the fact that he's 28 and his career really just started because Durant left.

what this season did is put Westbrook in the discussion for best in the league. Kobe was the best perimeter player in basketball from 2003-2010

Lebron was 1b from 2007-2010 and the best from 2011-2015

Westbrook has to perform at this level or close to it and win a few titles before he vaults into all time greatness

But if Westbrook gets help. Which I think he will. I see Blake griffin heading to okc. And he manages to win some titles he'll vault ahead of Durant and curry in this era. And if he does that he'll put himself in the discussion. But his time table is small

One season doesn't put you in the all time greats career wise. But he definitely had an all time great season

Right now he's 2001 iverson. Which is nothing to sniff at. If he does it another 3-4 times then the discussion can start
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#249 stillshining

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Posted April 10, 2017 - 09:41 AM

Because of his size you say that. If he was the size of those guys he would be doing everything they do and more. Out of the top ten players to ever do it no one below 6'6 is even in that convo because dominating the game on both ends is much harder at a smaller size. Basketball is a game of size plain and simple. We just watched a 6'3 guy average a triple double while leading the league in scoring. He has grabbed more rebounds this season than Lebron has in any season of Lebron's career!

We have seen a lot of one man shows in the NBA over the years. From a young MJ, a prime Kobe when we had Smush Parker, and LBJ with the Cavs early in his career. However, we have never seen someone at this size dominate like this guy. Hell, we havent seen anyone of any size dominate the stat sheet like him since the 60's! He gets to wherever he wants on the floor, plays great defense, is a play maker and rebounds like a big. If he was 6'8 like the other guys you mention he would look other worldly in comparison.

As someone has already said, he is the ultimate competitor. He said he could never ever think about sitting a game. When he goes out there he gives 100% every time. If he had a few more inches are 25 more pounds its hard to comprehend what he would look like out there. With what he has done this season IDK if its even a stretch to say it would be Mike like because in my mind he would certainly be close to having that type of dominance.


I think part of what makes him so great is how much of a physical marvel he is at his position, him being 6'6 will still have him as a super athlete but we're not talking best athlete ever at his position. If we're talking about just adding height to the skillet he has right now LeBron and KD are still better because they are both more skilled and they both have one skill that's GOAT level (scoring and passing). Westbrook is very good at a lot of stuff but he's not GOAT level in one single thing skillwise. He's an average shooter, a good passer but not amazing and has a very good handle. He is not a great defender, he takes way too many plays off and has never locked in on that end for a full season to an elite level. Post up game is good but mostly because he is just too physically dominant at his position. If you can just break his game down to parts you can see it's not at GOAT level

#250 kball

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Posted April 10, 2017 - 12:50 PM

Its really been unbelievable.

When you have players from all generations dropping their jaw at what one player is doing right now, its time to pay attention and enjoy it.

 

RW MVP is a lock now

 

BTW Looks like LBJ will end the season over 25 pts a game.

Marking his 13th straight season doing that which is a league record.

Not Wilt

Not kareem

Not MJ

Not kobe

Not Karl (i don't think the rest i double checked)

 

(Lebron probably gets my vote as greatest non center ever when all is said and done)


Edited by kball, April 10, 2017 - 12:51 PM.

Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#251 PhillyLaker24

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 04:37 AM

Has nothing to do with size. His production this year happened regardless of size.

That's basically implying that greatness is totally aesthetic

Him not being in the discussion for the greatest is more of the fact that he's 28 and his career really just started because Durant left.

what this season did is put Westbrook in the discussion for best in the league. Kobe was the best perimeter player in basketball from 2003-2010

Lebron was 1b from 2007-2010 and the best from 2011-2015

Westbrook has to perform at this level or close to it and win a few titles before he vaults into all time greatness

But if Westbrook gets help. Which I think he will. I see Blake griffin heading to okc. And he manages to win some titles he'll vault ahead of Durant and curry in this era. And if he does that he'll put himself in the discussion. But his time table is small

One season doesn't put you in the all time greats career wise. But he definitely had an all time great season

Right now he's 2001 iverson. Which is nothing to sniff at. If he does it another 3-4 times then the discussion can start

 

Greatness is the idea that you dominate whenever  you step on the court. That other players are at your will when you have  the ball in your hand. That you impact the game to such a degree you must be accounted for one both offense and defense. Like I said go through the best 10 to every play in this league, and you can go by anyone's list. Do you think it is just a coincidence that no one under 6'6 is in that convo? There have been many amazing players that have been shorter than that, but they have never had the ability to dominate at all facets because of their size. If you really believe that size does not matter in basketball you are discounting the greatness that AI was on the court and the amazing play that you are seeing from Isaiah Thomas right now. Someone dropping 30 at 6 foot is much more impressive than dropping 30 at 6'8 don't you agree? 

 

I think part of what makes him so great is how much of a physical marvel he is at his position, him being 6'6 will still have him as a super athlete but we're not talking best athlete ever at his position. If we're talking about just adding height to the skillet he has right now LeBron and KD are still better because they are both more skilled and they both have one skill that's GOAT level (scoring and passing). Westbrook is very good at a lot of stuff but he's not GOAT level in one single thing skillwise. He's an average shooter, a good passer but not amazing and has a very good handle. He is not a great defender, he takes way too many plays off and has never locked in on that end for a full season to an elite level. Post up game is good but mostly because he is just too physically dominant at his position. If you can just break his game down to parts you can see it's not at GOAT level

 

Westbrook is already arguably the most athletic guy in the league. His speed, quickness, explosion, and strength (for his size) is amazing. 

 

More skilled? You would take Lebron's jumper over Westbrook's? What Lebron you watching? Really cannot compare post games because one is a PG, and learning to operate on the low block at 6'3 doesn't make sense. However, you do not think Westbrook with his speed and skill would not be able to get the footwork down low and operate efficiently on the low block if he was taller and stronger?  Not to mention Lebron was a ball dominate point forward most his early career, how many times did he eclipse 10 apg? 0. Again, Lebron has never ever had 10rpg and he is 6'8 250, Westbrook does and he is 6'3 200.

 

Durant for his career has 7rpg, Westbrook averages 6! He is 6 inches shorter and only grabs one less rebound. Durant has never had a season with more than 5.5 apg in one season, Westbrook has basically doubled that this season. However, I will take Durant's scoring ability over Westbrook because his shooting is silky smooth. 

 

I do not want to derail the topic, but we just watched a 6'3 man average a triple double! He has a sky high usage rate which is the biggest knock on him this season in terms of these stats. I think it is actually the highest ever in a season. To say if we gave this man another 3-5 inches and 30 pounds he wouldn't be even more dominate is pretty crazy to me. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, April 11, 2017 - 04:39 AM.

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#252 Tensai

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 06:44 AM

If he was 6'6, he would probably be a SG though. I mean, no one is expecting a 6'3 player to be a forward or center today. That is why the stats and all other arguments would change. But, the will and body of work would still be there and that is still enough to make him one of the greatest players ever to play the game. We would probably be talking Jordan, Kobe and Westbrook. (He would be better than Wade)


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#253 kball

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 08:38 AM

Greatness is the idea that you dominate whenever  you step on the court. That other players are at your will when you have  the ball in your hand. That you impact the game to such a degree you must be accounted for one both offense and defense. Like I said go through the best 10 to every play in this league, and you can go by anyone's list. Do you think it is just a coincidence that no one under 6'6 is in that convo? There have been many amazing players that have been shorter than that, but they have never had the ability to dominate at all facets because of their size. If you really believe that size does not matter in basketball you are discounting the greatness that AI was on the court and the amazing play that you are seeing from Isaiah Thomas right now. Someone dropping 30 at 6 foot is much more impressive than dropping 30 at 6'8 don't you agree? 

 

 

Westbrook is already arguably the most athletic guy in the league. His speed, quickness, explosion, and strength (for his size) is amazing. 

 

Not since the 3 pointer. Especially last 10 years

But before it, id agree

 

BTW I think

Oscar was 6'5

West 6'3

 

And AI was by far the best small player i ever saw play in terms of dominating...until Westbrook

 

Westbrook is unreal and also the biggest reason to watch the first round imo


Edited by kball, April 11, 2017 - 08:41 AM.

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Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#254 BasketballIQ

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 10:14 AM

Iverson dominated as a scorer as the best little man scorer ever.
Kobe was the best scoring wing ever.
Wilt is the best scoring big ever.


These are not up for debate.



Westbrook has entered into a top 1p at his position all time discussion.
LeBron is in a top 5 discussion though for me he is top 15 more so.

I have Dr. J and Bird ranked higher

#255 BasketballIQ

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 10:18 AM

Its really been unbelievable.
When you have players from all generations dropping their jaw at what one player is doing right now, its time to pay attention and enjoy it.

RW MVP is a lock now

BTW Looks like LBJ will end the season over 25 pts a game.
Marking his 13th straight season doing that which is a league record.
Not Wilt
Not kareem
Not MJ
Not kobe
Not Karl (i don't think the rest i double checked)

(Lebron probably gets my vote as greatest non center ever when all is said and done)



Greater than Magic? Jordan? Kball what game are you watching where LeBron was not impressive than them or Kobe or Bird?



His consistency is a marvel but I've seen more supernatural feats from plenty players including what Westbrook is doing now.


Imagine if Westbrook at this age had a supercast that fits his strengths

#256 bigvee

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 10:30 AM

Westbrook

1) Averaging a 32 point triple double in less than 35 minutes a game. That's intense.

2) Averaging 10+ assists without playing with any real shooters. He truly has to create looks for his teammates. No one on his team is shooting higher than 37% from 3. In comparison, Harden is averaging 11.2 assists playing with 3 guys over 37% from 3, while averaging 3 less points in 36 minutes.

 

Kawhi is gonna take some first place votes away from both of them though. My gut tells me Harden takes it, but Westbrook does have a lot of recency bias going for him and he's the "online MVP" as of right now.



#257 stillshining

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 11:34 AM

I think one of Westbrooks biggest arguments is he lost the second best player in the world (Durant) and the third best player on the team (Ibaka) and there's only been a 7-8 game drop off. That's absolutely amazing when you also factor 2 of his 3 best teammates this year missibg significant time with injury (Kanter and Oladipo).

Look at the history of superstars leaving their teams, it's mostly a huge drop off. LeBron leaving the Cavs the first time, Shaq leaving the Lakers, Magic retiring etc.. Only time I remember a minimal dropoff was Jordan retiring the first time when Pippen went insane

#258 BasketballIQ

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 12:16 PM

To nitpick. His inefficient stars do hurt him however what he is doing is so much better than Harden imo.

We've seen MDA led teams. They win games... the point guard has career highs and they underperform in the playoffs

#259 kball

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 06:51 PM

Said when all is said and done...meaning his career is finished.

I loved Magic. Saw him play in person maybe 200-250 times.

Kobe even more. Loved him and saw him play.

 

And Bird and Jordan were the 2 non lakers i respected (loved/hated) most in all these years watching basketball.

LBJ is still a couple years, maybe even 3, from eclipsing Kobe and Jordan.

 

But he's already moved ahead of Magic and Bird imo

 

Its only an opinion.  These guys are considered all-time greats for a reason. 

Greater than Magic? Jordan? Kball what game are you watching where LeBron was not impressive than them or Kobe or Bird?



His consistency is a marvel but I've seen more supernatural feats from plenty players including what Westbrook is doing now.


Imagine if Westbrook at this age had a supercast that fits his strengths


Praying for  1. Some Cohesion (Ill fitting parts with young bucks, new guys, and those playing for next contracts may muck things up all season) 2. Better Coaching, No More Tanking (Last season was more of the latter but not sure how much of the former we can count on. Walton with something to prove this season as much as any Laker player) 3. Rookie Watch (Hoping Lonzo outshines his daddy (ROTY??), and Kuzma finds minutes and makes a push for all rook 2nd team)

READY FOR SEASON!!!

 

 


#260 Tensai

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Posted April 11, 2017 - 10:14 PM

The literal rankings are pointless.

 

Wilt, Russell, West, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Malone, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Lebron would have dominated in any era. Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Harden are close. They just need to do it like 5 more years.


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