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The Night Of


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#1 bigvee

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Posted September 01, 2016 - 01:33 PM

A critique of the American criminal justice system. Pretty accurate for a TV show, for what's it's worth.

Spoiler


#2 PhillyLaker24

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Posted September 01, 2016 - 01:51 PM

IDK how accurate it really was, a lot of what happened in that trial would not have been allowed in a real court lol

 

Was a good story no doubt, very suspenseful and well crafted. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, September 01, 2016 - 01:51 PM.

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#3 JGuez

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Posted September 01, 2016 - 05:57 PM

I was hooked after the first 2 episodes but after that I was disappointed with the direction it took.

 

Spoiler

Edited by JGuez, September 01, 2016 - 05:58 PM.


#4 kobedoinwork

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Posted September 01, 2016 - 09:49 PM

That's the thing the cops didn't go after any other suspects they just went after one guy, Naz, didn't even make sense as a killer, if he had ashama he wouldn't be able to stab someone 22 times without using his inhaler, and there was no blood on him at all!!! If he murdered someone with that much stabbings he would have blood on him. The main detective was phoning it in because it wAs his last case and he wanted to retire.

I think the eczema was something like, people would always look at stone like a freak because of his disease and they will always look at Naz as a murderer even though he most likely didn't do it. So it's a common trait they both have


Freddie had that much power on the inside because he had even more power on the outside he could get anyone on the outside to kill or have something happen to either other jail birds or the police working at the prison.

The murder was done by a knife lol, what are you talking about? The evidence mattered because it showed the ex boyfriend and the banker most likely did it because he was stealing money from her.

#5 JGuez

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 04:30 AM

^Well I guess we're not using spoiler tags? I will for now anyways.

 

Spoiler

Edited by JGuez, September 02, 2016 - 04:31 AM.

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#6 PhillyLaker24

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 06:42 AM

The simplest and most obvious problem with this story was the cops did no effort to see where the girl came from before she got into the car. Part of any theory of a case, especially a murder case is the victims whereabouts and actions prior to the murder in order to tie it all together. They legit looked at no other security cameras except the one as soon as she got in the cab. This is what made no sense. In addition Naz's lawyers did nothing to investigate the same exact thing, which is very very important. IDK how to add a spoiler tag so

SPOILERS!

 

I knew from the very first episode that Naz was not the killer. Slightly for the reason Jguez said since the show really wouldn't make sense to have him be the killer. However, the biggest clue was as soon as she said to him at the river I can't be alone tonight and then she turned up dead it was self explanatory she knew someone was after her. I initially thought from all the pills and her emo/crazy self she actually hired someone to kill her and then it would be pinned on Naz. I thought this because she gave him a pill that did nothing, and then gave him coke and he immediately crashed and forgot everything. It was the perfect concoction to get his DNA all over the scene while leaving him with no defense to what happened. I apparently put too much of a twist on it since she was clearly just killed by a jilted lover. 

 

A commentary on the criminal justice system is such a cop out to give this story meaning. I expected so much more from the first few episodes. Obviously the criminal justice system sucks and negatively impacts all those it touch. This has been a big theme in cinema for decades now. They could of done more with the underlying theme, but in terms of just a suspense story it was pretty solid. I also don't understand how one can use this to critque the criminal justice system when the evidence against Naz was probably as good as an ADA could hope for. I don't think it's really a problem of the system when the amount of evidence for someone in a crime legit is beyond a reasonable doubt that's just [expletive]ty luck. Wrong place wrong time type stuff to a whole another level. 

 

Fun Fact: Two people can actually be individually convicted for a crime that was individual in nature. For example Naz could go to jail for this murder, and then the jilted lover could as well with no theory of them working together; crazy but true. 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, September 02, 2016 - 06:52 AM.

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#7 JGuez

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 07:58 AM

^Exactly. Agree with what you said and especially the point I forgot to even mention. How the hell are we supposed to believe that both the cops and even his own lawyers didn't look to see where she was prior in the day.

 

It makes zero sense.



#8 bigvee

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 10:39 AM

^Exactly. Agree with what you said and especially the point I forgot to even mention. How the hell are we supposed to believe that both the cops and even his own lawyers didn't look to see where she was prior in the day.

It makes zero sense.


Well that's the whole critique on the system. A detective on his way out gets a murder case as his last one and doesn't even care to keep snooping because the prosecutor says she has enough for a conviction. Even when she's presented the evidence, she says that she has more on the kid, implying that she doesn't give a [expletive] about guilt or innocence and only about furthering her own career with a murder conviction. A murder conviction means promotions for many people, especially one as high profile as this one.

Also, the eczema was strategically placed in scenes either before or after Nas in prison. John and Nas had a paralleled existence and it was amplified in that last scene where John noted how people look at him. When Nas was suffering in prison, so was John outside. John got the cat, Nas got Freddy. On the outside, it seemed like the right thing to do, but it only made the rash worse, and Nas came out addicted to heroin and with prison tattoos, so he was given a permanent reminder of was had happened to him. Same can be said with John, who sees his former self with clear skin on the subway, but is probably permanently damaged by the skin.

There's also that last bit in the closing argument where John says that Nas has thrown into Rikers and told to survive. Same can be said for him, since this case was thrown at him and he had to survive.

And I thought the show was pretty accurate for a TV show. The whole point of them not checking for blood on his person was to show how bad CIS can be. Also, these weren't two great trial attorneys. Lots of objections should have been made, but the critique on the justice system was going for both sides. Over and over again it was mentioned that Nas deserved the best possible defense. He obviously wasn't given that. He was given two people that just cared enough about what happened to him to put the hours down and work for him.

The big no no I would give to the show is the way evidence was presented. Obviously there's not enough time in a HBO series to explain each piece of document in a courtroom the way they should, so that wasn't too bad, but swinging the alleged murder weapon around is definitely too dramatic and lame lol

#9 PhillyLaker24

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 12:42 PM

I would say his defense was pretty good except for the fact they didn't check where the girl was prior to meeting him. The reasonable doubt was planted thanks to the three stories the defense presented about someone else who had means, motive, and opportunity. The critque of the system is very weak IMO, they gave the ADA a slam dunk case plain and simple. If we all didn't watch the first episode and I gave you that evidence how much you wanna bet you would say he is guilty as hell. Also the blood not being on his person is a very simple explanation. He had sex with her, she died naked. This means he probably did the stabbing while naked and then cleaned himself up either by a bird bath or a shower.

 

Also I am not sure why people are coming at this detective so bad he did a pretty decent job except not looking where the girl came from, something Naz's defense also should have done. However, when he retired the very next day he was back on the case looking for the truth, and no proof was presented to him yet about that except his own GUT instinct. If your a detective and you get these facts your gonna think you got the guy. The fact that the detective went back and still investigated actually gave a nod to police, after all he was the only cop we saw that actually gave a crap. Naz was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the evidence undeniably pointed to him. Unless there is some tool to go back in the future to see what happened on the night that is about the best you can make a justice system for finding guilt. 

 

Lastly, the critique is made even worst when the ADA stops mid closing. While we might of been angry when she was presented with other evidence of someone else that did it, the evidence against Naz was still stronger period. However, while driving the last nail in the coffin for Naz she stopped half way because she had REASONABLE doubt that he did it. This showed that ADA's actually care more about justice than just conviction. After a dead lock jury she then declined to prosecute even though the case was still great, but now she had other evidence that gave herself reasonable doubt so they didn't move forward. The show's critique on the justice system is as weak as it is cliche'. The only failure of the justice system according to this show was that prison is a bad place. Is that really a failure though? Is one expected that when you throw killers and rapist together that they will hold hands and sing kumbaya? 


Edited by PhillyLaker24, September 02, 2016 - 12:48 PM.

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#10 kobedoinwork

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 06:09 PM

Sorry about the spoiler warning I am on my phone and am not sure how to do it on my phone


I thought the killer got in from the backdoor that wouldn't shut and it was the SPOILER ex boyfriend he might know about the backdoor being not being able to shut.

#11 bigvee

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Posted September 02, 2016 - 06:23 PM

I would say his defense was pretty good except for the fact they didn't check where the girl was prior to meeting him. The reasonable doubt was planted thanks to the three stories the defense presented about someone else who had means, motive, and opportunity. The critque of the system is very weak IMO, they gave the ADA a slam dunk case plain and simple. If we all didn't watch the first episode and I gave you that evidence how much you wanna bet you would say he is guilty as hell. Also the blood not being on his person is a very simple explanation. He had sex with her, she died naked. This means he probably did the stabbing while naked and then cleaned himself up either by a bird bath or a shower.

 

Also I am not sure why people are coming at this detective so bad he did a pretty decent job except not looking where the girl came from, something Naz's defense also should have done. However, when he retired the very next day he was back on the case looking for the truth, and no proof was presented to him yet about that except his own GUT instinct. If your a detective and you get these facts your gonna think you got the guy. The fact that the detective went back and still investigated actually gave a nod to police, after all he was the only cop we saw that actually gave a crap. Naz was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the evidence undeniably pointed to him. Unless there is some tool to go back in the future to see what happened on the night that is about the best you can make a justice system for finding guilt. 

 

Lastly, the critique is made even worst when the ADA stops mid closing. While we might of been angry when she was presented with other evidence of someone else that did it, the evidence against Naz was still stronger period. However, while driving the last nail in the coffin for Naz she stopped half way because she had REASONABLE doubt that he did it. This showed that ADA's actually care more about justice than just conviction. After a dead lock jury she then declined to prosecute even though the case was still great, but now she had other evidence that gave herself reasonable doubt so they didn't move forward. The show's critique on the justice system is as weak as it is cliche'. The only failure of the justice system according to this show was that prison is a bad place. Is that really a failure though? Is one expected that when you throw killers and rapist together that they will hold hands and sing kumbaya? 

 

I don't get what you're saying about the detective. He did a horrible job. He didn't check where the girl was before up until he started feeling real guilty and did real work on the case. He also mentioned that the boyfriends semen was found in the girls apartment. That wasn't disclosed to the defense or brought up in trial and that does a lot for us.

 

If you put the boyfriends semen in the room then the defense starts asking questions about where the boyfriend was and finds what they need to find. Instead, no one cares to look for him because of the supposed open and shut nature of this case. 

 

Also, no argument was given as to why Nas has no blood on him. No one even thought to bring that up on either side. Obviously a well natured defense attorney would have hammered the prosecutor with that. How could he have possibly murdered the girl and walked out with only a cut on his wrist when the walls were flooded with blood. 



#12 JEN

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Posted September 03, 2016 - 01:17 AM

Watched the trailer for this show a few days ago. Looks like it might be interesting... may check it out.



#13 PhillyLaker24

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Posted September 03, 2016 - 06:41 AM

I don't get what you're saying about the detective. He did a horrible job. He didn't check where the girl was before up until he started feeling real guilty and did real work on the case. He also mentioned that the boyfriends semen was found in the girls apartment. That wasn't disclosed to the defense or brought up in trial and that does a lot for us.

 

If you put the boyfriends semen in the room then the defense starts asking questions about where the boyfriend was and finds what they need to find. Instead, no one cares to look for him because of the supposed open and shut nature of this case. 

 

Also, no argument was given as to why Nas has no blood on him. No one even thought to bring that up on either side. Obviously a well natured defense attorney would have hammered the prosecutor with that. How could he have possibly murdered the girl and walked out with only a cut on his wrist when the walls were flooded with blood. 

 

I just gave a simple explanation why he had no blood on him. Also the detective went so far after his job was done that  it puts him in a positive light not a bad one. The only critique maybe could be was that the detective was only committed to getting a conviction when he was ON the job. However, once he was retired all he cared about was actual justice. Maybe the show was saying the incentive for a cop is still just to nail a perp even if they think other wise? This still is a weak critique because the case against Naz was ridiculously good I think we can all admit that. 

 

So the boyfriends semen was at the girls house? Sounds quite ordinary. I agree them not disclosing it is part of the shows way of saying the system cuts corners to get convictions. That is fine. The show ends with a dead lock jury even though Naz got put up on the stand and looked like a fool and liar. This in combination with the mountain of evidence against him only ends up in a dead lock jury. This is not a critique of a short coming but to me an example of the good parts of the system. 12 human beings still could not convict this kid even though every logical conclusion was HE DID IT. 

 

If the critique was that the criminal justice system is not perfect then this show hit it right on the head. However, if it was suppose to show how awful, bad, and nothing good comes from it this show missed the mark with that.  


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#14 bigvee

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Posted September 03, 2016 - 11:08 AM

I just gave a simple explanation why he had no blood on him. Also the detective went so far after his job was done that  it puts him in a positive light not a bad one. The only critique maybe could be was that the detective was only committed to getting a conviction when he was ON the job. However, once he was retired all he cared about was actual justice. Maybe the show was saying the incentive for a cop is still just to nail a perp even if they think other wise? This still is a weak critique because the case against Naz was ridiculously good I think we can all admit that. 

 

So the boyfriends semen was at the girls house? Sounds quite ordinary. I agree them not disclosing it is part of the shows way of saying the system cuts corners to get convictions. That is fine. The show ends with a dead lock jury even though Naz got put up on the stand and looked like a fool and liar. This in combination with the mountain of evidence against him only ends up in a dead lock jury. This is not a critique of a short coming but to me an example of the good parts of the system. 12 human beings still could not convict this kid even though every logical conclusion was HE DID IT. 

 

If the critique was that the criminal justice system is not perfect then this show hit it right on the head. However, if it was suppose to show how awful, bad, and nothing good comes from it this show missed the mark with that.  

 

The biggest part you're missing is that the defense had no idea the HE WAS the boyfriend. The semen was never brought up in disclosure. There's video surveillance of the boyfriend ON THAT STREET AT THE SAME TIME. 

 

No jury will ever convict anyone based off your explanation of the clothes either. It's way too open ended and speculative with many holes. 






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