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#1 gatmang

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Posted June 29, 2016 - 09:32 PM

Hassan Whiteside got me thinking on a path that could lead the lakers back to glory. It is to become a defensive juggernaut like the Piston team that beat LA in 2004. Ben, Rasheed, and Prince were all top 3 defensive players at their positions; and all of them, including Rip and Chauncey, were extremely good at playing defense together. It was like one person with 5 bodies out there. They were completely in sync at all times. We could construct a team that similar to those pesky pistons. Here are some nice defensive minded players that comes to mind:

 

Ben Wallace > Whiteside $20m

Rasheed Wallace -> Pau Gasol $10m?

Prince > Batum $18m

Rip > Clarkson $8m

Billups > Conley $18m

 

This amounts to over the $70m, with our pockets at $66m, Ingram would have to be the "Prince" of the Lakers.

 

Thoughts??


Edited by gatmang, June 29, 2016 - 09:38 PM.


#2 Real Deal

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Posted June 29, 2016 - 09:53 PM

Two problems.

 

1) I wouldn't call Gasol a good defensive player, nor would I give that title to Clarkson.  In fact, Gasol is a better defender than Clarkson, and that's not saying much.  Rasheed was pretty damn good, but also very strong in the post.

 

Not that it matters, but if we want a defensive center closer to Big Ben, we're looking in the wrong direction at Whiteside.

 

2) That team would score 80 PPG.  I'm not sure the offense we could run with them.  It would likely have to go through the post, which means through Gasol, and we all know that Pau can't carry that load anymore.

 

The Pistons had elite off-ball play (Rip), an excellent stretch-4 that could kill you in the post (Sheed), a one-of-a-kind defensive center (Ben), a defensive-minded standout three that could shoot (Prince), and a defensive-minded all-star PG that could shoot and post up (Billups).  That team was so well-rounded, they didn't need a superstar to score 30.

 

We don't have that complex of a team now, or as proposed above.  You're talking four all-stars and a borderline all-star, all on the same team, perfectly complimenting each other.

 

The proposed Lakers team would struggle.  Clarkson wouldn't fit the mold, and Gasol is a few years too old for that big of a role.

 

Remember, the Phoenix Suns had both Shawn Marion and Raja Bell, two very good defenders, and a good rebounder in Amare Stoudemire...but they were a poor defensive team because they didn't compliment each other on that end of the floor.

 

This team would struggle.  Ingram would have to start, of course, and be an all-star quality player already, before they could win 40 games.


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#3 gatmang

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Posted June 29, 2016 - 11:15 PM

Whiteside led the league in swats, that's elite. He could be the defensive anchor of the team. Pau can still play and averages about 2 blocks per game. He's a dynamic player, can post up and pass, and can shoot the 3 much like 'Sheed. Rip and Clarkson both average defenders but they can both score in bunches. Conley is a defensive minded player much like Billups was. Ingram can shoot better than Prince, haven't seen enough of his defense.The piston teams couldnt score either. They beat up on teams with their D. 

 

The Grizz remind me the Pistons and they obviously can't get deep in Western playoffs. I'm nixing my own idea now hah.



#4 Real Deal

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Posted June 30, 2016 - 08:01 PM

Whiteside's swats, and Wallace's presence on D, are two different things.  Ibaka had up to four blocks a night one season, but I wouldn't never called him an elite defensive player.  Millsap is top five in blocks this past season, but he isn't among the better defensive big men.

 

I would call Rip an average defender.  Clarkson is a poor defender.

 

I'll give you Conley.  He's not Billups, but he's good.

 

Rasheed Wallace was shooting up to 5.4 threes per game, and doing it at an average of 34% for his career.  Pau Gasol had just one season where he shot 1 three per game.  Every other season of his career, he barely shot one every 3-4 nights.  I also won't discuss them on the defensive end.  Gasol is the better overall offensive player, of course, but nowhere close to Sheed defensively.

 

Ingram can shoot, but he hasn't taken a single shot in the pros.  I can't say he can shoot better than Prince, who shot a consistent 45% or better from the floor for most of his career, and 37% from three.  Those are good numbers, better than a Carmelo Anthony, who we all thought was a pretty damn good shooter at one point, also.

 

Defensively, again, Ingram is good, but no Prince...and probably won't be.

 

When you lay everything out to analyze, yeah...the Pistons could not score the ball as well as other teams, but it's only because they slowed the game down drastically.  They had multiple ways of scoring, and they had it balanced.  Due to them being one of the best defensive teams in the last 20-30 years, though, they didn't need to score.

 

Our guys would need to score, and they wouldn't be able to.  That would be the issue.

 

The Grizzlies remind you of the Pistons because of their defensive presence.  This year, they were injured most of the time, but in 2014-15, they were ranked 3rd.  Why didn't they get out of the second round?  Because they ran into an offensive team that they couldn't keep up with...the Warriors.  Memphis would have lost to the Spurs and Thunder, also, because while they had the defense, they were awful from three (so they couldn't spread the floor), they could not get to the free throw line (nobody capable of drawing fouls), and they couldn't grab their own misses for second chance points.  All of that, and the fact that they really weren't that great at passing the ball, hurt them significantly against the elite.

 

Memphis would have needed 2004-level Pistons defense to get past the Warriors.  It would have required them to completely shut down one of the Splash Bros and Green, the same way the Pistons shut off the two-man game between Kobe and Shaq (Ben being able to outmuscle O'Neal in the post, and Prince's length preventing Kobe from making the entry pass and engaging in the triangle O)...while keeping the game's score down and draining the Warriors of any offense they can execute.

 

We would suffer the same fate.  We would need a primary scoring option to carry the load, or an absolute wizard of a PG (Magic or Kidd reincarnation) to feed open players all over the court, every possession of the game.



#5 bigvee

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Posted June 30, 2016 - 09:54 PM

Everything that RD said with emphasis on how good Sheed and Big Ben were at defending the post. The closest thing would be a defense-only Draymond Green






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