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Julius Randle: Fit & Potential

Julius Randle fit potential trade

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#301 GCMD

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 06:38 AM

I am wondering if Lakers will have Luke's press conference before the draft?

He will definitely be asked about all of these guys and it would be interesting to get his take on how he sees them fitting.

There is a chance, though, that a trade happens by the draft, and we may not hear from Luke until after.

 

Lakers offseason news: Luke Walton shares his views on 'small ball'

 

http://www.silverscr...-larry-nance-jr

 

 

Lakers Offseason News: Julius Randle compares himself to Draymond Green

 

http://www.silverscr...1161.1451872745

 

 

Green has publicly stated how important Walton was for his development, and Randle believes he will have the same experiences playing in a similar role to Green in the Lakers' new schemes.

 

"Obviously there are a lot of similarities between Draymond and myself," Randle said. "There will be a lot to learn, but especially with the style of play, it'll be fun for us to get up and down. Sharing the ball is going to be big for us this year. Just building that chemistry on both sides of the floor."

 

 

Yeah...that actually happened.



#302 Clutch Factor

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 07:29 AM

Luke himself thinks that Randle has the talent to become an All-Star. I don't see why he'd make that statement if he didn't have innovative ways of incorporating Randle. 

 

The first step is to see how (and if) he fits. A smart GM isn't going to make hasty moves (unless we're getting a good player in return) just to get rid of Randle without first seeing how he fares with Luke. 


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#303 Clutch Factor

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 07:32 AM

The fact that we are building the team from ground up is the very reason to be patient. As of "operating out of the offense down the line," no system is 100% perfect. In late game situations, we've seen Steph/Klay/Green iso or even Kawhi/LMA.

 

Granted, they're above and beyond superior players, but the concept is the same. If we're struggling to score, having someone that can score down low is a good asset to have. It can also get the opposing bigs in foul trouble. What does that mean? It opens up the lane further for our guards to penetrate or our bigs to keep attacking. 

 

We will never win a championship simply replicating the Warriors. We need our own identity. Maybe that's 1-4 players that can space the floor and a defensive 5 that can dominate down low (Whiteside). Maybe it's Randle + Whiteside which would totally control the boards. Seeing GSW struggle against Kanter + Adams or even when Tristan Thompson dominates the boards shows their weakness. 


Edited by Clutch Factor, June 17, 2016 - 07:33 AM.

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#304 Clutch Factor

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 07:36 AM

You make definite statements without any form of compromise or flexibility. Believing that Randle will not fit but being open to experimenting would give your posts more credit.

 

Don't forget we had debates of Russell and how negatively you felt about him when he was chosen over Okafor. Now you've turned a complete 180 degrees and may be one of the biggest Russell supporters out there. 

 

Sure, the comparisons may be very different. But you had the same attitude back then. Not willing to show an open mind until you're proven wrong. 


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#305 UKUGA

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 08:17 AM

Didnt i read the presser will be next week?

Would most likely fall between parade (if they win) and draft imo.
Tues or wed?


Has to be one of those days. You'd think Tuesday, but I thought the parade might be that day.

Don't feed the trolls. 


#306 lonlyamongus

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:21 AM

You are basically saying you don't agree with Luke, the GSW system or the direction.

 

Stop putting word in my mouth, i merely pointing out the weakness of GSW's system. Warrior's system basketball is probably as good or better than Pop's system.  But doesn't mean it is flawless and not open up for critics.  What's happened to Warriors this series has been lack of options when shots aren't falling from 3 pt line.  and the other side continues to punish them from the inside.  you act like Warrior's system is killing the Cavs, but they are struggling w/o Bogut.  Last year they did it w/o Bogut because there were no consistent outside threat after Kyrie injured himself after game 1.  This year w/ Kyrie, James can dump to Kyrie on the parameter, punishing Curry on the defensive end.

 

You don't have faith that Russell/Ingram/Clarkson will be enough to build around.

 

you have 100% faith in something that never actually happened yet?

 

You don't believe that we should play a TEAM ORIENTED game and we NEED a crutch like Kobe was to all of the previous Lakers teams you likely watched...

again stop putting words in my mouth, i emphasis again and again that RANDLE IS A GOOD OPTION to have when your outside shots aren't falling and the defense reads your motion offense and adjust well to defend your cutters.  The greatness of MJ, Kobe, Bird and Hakeem were their abilities to make things happen down the stretch when the team needs points to push over the top.  And that has been Lebron's problem during his previous failings at the championship run.  He often(not always) resorts to the system and pass the ball when he is the one who needs to score and make a difference.  

 

And I'm giving up?

 

 

Yes....I'm giving up on Randle...I am giving up on him because I am COMMITTING to the direction of this team.  I didn't even WANT Luke but I'm supporting what he's going to bring because there is NO WAY we have a CHANCE to succeed building the GSW style system (which took them 4 years) by "hedging our bets".  Randle's simply not worth trying to ride 2 horses because he's not an All World Talent.  If he were, we'd have no problem FLIPPING him for a player like Butler...

 

Committing on the team philosophy doesn't mean you give up your valuable assets before day 1 w/o finding some values in them so you can make your team better.  Warrior got Bogut with Monte Ellis, we traded Divac for the rights to Kobe.  All those good decisions were made with careful weighing of all options and wait for the right moment to pull the trigger while developing your player's values.  

 

Because like someone said "who is more productive than Randle at his salary"?  LOL...amazing that with all of this potential and all of this promise, we couldn't get a top 5 pick...or a STAR in return...or is this "beauty" only in the "eye of the Lakers Fans beholders"?

 

But I'M bloating Randle's weaknesses?

 

Let's look at this offense...Randle's weaknesses would standout in most offenses but they are HUGE RED FLAGS in this one.  I'm not making this stuff up:

 

Did you hear the first thing the Video 1 talked about?  the Coach must make the players aware of the importance of setting a good screen, in his examples, Hibbert were two of the examples, Randle was on two of the examples and Kobe was the other example.  these things are fundamentals that coaching staff must stress in practice (video said it not me), so yeah if the coaching staff have not been stressing those finer details of flaws in players games (you see a vet, a rook, and a end of career great all making the same mistake), then you can't just blame the players for failing their execution.  Randle is still young, things can still be picked up w/ the right coach, and if he doesn't send him away.  He only played one year of NBA basketball under probably the worst coach ever.  W/o giving him a chance in a proper environment is short changing the Lakers.  

 

 

I'm not the one pushing Randle out.  He IS the odd man out...that's part of the game.  Not every player is right for every offense or every roster.  You guys have just DEMONIZED me for pointing this out to you REPEATEDLY and SOUNDLY.  You may not like the way I put it but it's all facts.


Edited by lonlyamongus, June 17, 2016 - 09:22 AM.

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#307 GCMD

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:25 AM

You make definite statements without any form of compromise or flexibility. Believing that Randle will not fit but being open to experimenting would give your posts more credit.

 

Don't forget we had debates of Russell and how negatively you felt about him when he was chosen over Okafor. Now you've turned a complete 180 degrees and may be one of the biggest Russell supporters out there. 

 

Sure, the comparisons may be very different. But you had the same attitude back then. Not willing to show an open mind until you're proven wrong. 

 

My problems with Russell were his ability to score and ability to finish at the rim.  NEVER did I question his fit or ability to pass or basketball IQ...no way it's the same situation.  

 

Once Russell PLAYED in the NBA, I saw he could do those things.

 

Same with Randle.  I gave him a chance...once he played in the NBA, I saw exactly who he was.  You can't say I got it wrong about Russell, saw the light and now I'm biased about Randle though Russell and Randle had the same sample size?

 

If you think I got it right after seeing Russell play, what makes you think I'm WRONG about Randle?

 

 

There is no reason to compromise about my view on Randle because I have conceded that Randle COULD play in the offense.  I've said it more than once.

 

Randle playing in this offense would SLOW EVERY BODY DOWN THAT IS A GOOD FIT.  That's what we've been talking about.

 

 

You want to discuss Randle's fit and POSSIBILITIES of JUST Randle...I am discussing his affect on the offense and the rest of the team.  I don't think it's fair or worth it to shoehorn Randle in the offense and slow everybody else down.  I don't think we will get Randle to play at the level of everyone else quickly enough to NOT slow down the progression of the rest of the team.

 

Why am I the bad guy for putting the TEAM over Randle?



#308 GCMD

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:26 AM

 

You are basically saying you don't agree with Luke, the GSW system or the direction.

 

Stop putting word in my mouth, i merely pointing out the weakness of GSW's system. Warrior's system basketball is probably as good or better than Pop's system.  But doesn't mean it is flawless and not open up for critics.  What's happened to Warriors this series has been lack of options when shots aren't falling from 3 pt line.  and the other side continues to punish them from the inside.  you act like Warrior's system is killing the Cavs, but they are struggling w/o Bogut.  Last year they did it w/o Bogut because there were no consistent outside threat after Kyrie injured himself after game 1.  This year w/ Kyrie, James can dump to Kyrie on the parameter, punishing Curry on the defensive end.

 

You don't have faith that Russell/Ingram/Clarkson will be enough to build around.

 

you have 100% faith in something that never actually happened yet?

 

You don't believe that we should play a TEAM ORIENTED game and we NEED a crutch like Kobe was to all of the previous Lakers teams you likely watched...

again stop putting words in my mouth, i emphasis again and again that RANDLE IS A GOOD OPTION to have when your outside shots aren't falling and the defense reads your motion offense and adjust well to defend your cutters.  The greatness of MJ, Kobe, Bird and Hakeem were their abilities to make things happen down the stretch when the team needs points to push over the top.  And that has been Lebron's problem during his previous failings at the championship run.  He often(not always) resorts to the system and pass the ball when he is the one who needs to score and make a difference.  

 

And I'm giving up?

 

 

Yes....I'm giving up on Randle...I am giving up on him because I am COMMITTING to the direction of this team.  I didn't even WANT Luke but I'm supporting what he's going to bring because there is NO WAY we have a CHANCE to succeed building the GSW style system (which took them 4 years) by "hedging our bets".  Randle's simply not worth trying to ride 2 horses because he's not an All World Talent.  If he were, we'd have no problem FLIPPING him for a player like Butler...

 

Committing on the team philosophy doesn't mean you give up your valuable assets before day 1 w/o finding some values in them so you can make your team better.  Warrior got Bogut with Monte Ellis, we traded Divac for the rights to Kobe.  All those good decisions were made with careful weighing of all options and wait for the right moment to pull the trigger while developing your player's values.  

 

Because like someone said "who is more productive than Randle at his salary"?  LOL...amazing that with all of this potential and all of this promise, we couldn't get a top 5 pick...or a STAR in return...or is this "beauty" only in the "eye of the Lakers Fans beholders"?

 

But I'M bloating Randle's weaknesses?

 

Let's look at this offense...Randle's weaknesses would standout in most offenses but they are HUGE RED FLAGS in this one.  I'm not making this stuff up:

 

Did you hear the first thing the Video 1 talked about?  the Coach must make the players aware of the importance of setting a good screen, in his examples, Hibbert were two of the examples, Randle was on two of the examples and Kobe was the other example.  these things are fundamentals that coaching staff must stress in practice (video said it not me), so yeah if the coaching staff have not been stressing those finer details of flaws in players games (you see a vet, a rook, and a end of career great all making the same mistake), then you can't just blame the players for failing their execution.  Randle is still young, things can still be picked up w/ the right coach, and if he doesn't send him away.  He only played one year of NBA basketball under probably the worst coach ever.  W/o giving him a chance in a proper environment is short changing the Lakers.  

 

 

I'm not the one pushing Randle out.  He IS the odd man out...that's part of the game.  Not every player is right for every offense or every roster.  You guys have just DEMONIZED me for pointing this out to you REPEATEDLY and SOUNDLY.  You may not like the way I put it but it's all facts.

 

 

I'm not doing this.

 

See all of the other posts where I've destroyed everything you've just said.

 

It's like Groundhog Day.



#309 Clutch Factor

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:38 AM

I didn't say the situation was the same. I said your attitude toward select topic was, leaving no room for further scenarios/interpretation. 

 

Yes, you said he could play the 5 (or the 5 off the bench). I don't think that would be very effective unless he vastly improves his defense. But again, I cannot counter your statement or prove you wrong until we have evidence of it. Until Luke experiments with that, no conclusion can be made.

 

I still think he can be effective at the 4. Again, however, I cannot prove this until we actually see him in the offense under Luke. It's that simple. Nothing about you being the bad guy or whatever. 



#310 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:38 AM

I'm not doing this.

 

See all of the other posts where I've destroyed everything you've just said.

 

It's like Groundhog Day.

You've destoyed nothing, dude. You're the one getting owned here. 


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#311 lakerfan98

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 09:42 AM

You make definite statements without any form of compromise or flexibility. Believing that Randle will not fit but being open to experimenting would give your posts more credit.

 

Don't forget we had debates of Russell and how negatively you felt about him when he was chosen over Okafor. Now you've turned a complete 180 degrees and may be one of the biggest Russell supporters out there. 

 

Sure, the comparisons may be very different. But you had the same attitude back then. Not willing to show an open mind until you're proven wrong. 

 

GCMD is a knowledgeable and insightful poster but his arrogant, sometimes condescending attitude about certain topics is frustrating.  The way he talks it's like anybody with half a brain couldn't possibly disagree with him even though he's admittedly been wrong about other things as recently as this past season.  It's not enough to agree with say 80% of his take on Randle.  If you diverge in any way from his exact line of thought you're lumped in with everyone else he perceives to be pro Randle no matter the degree.    


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#312 UKUGA

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 10:22 AM

It might be most beneficial to just freeze this topic and come back to it once the season starts, or whenever Randle is traded. I have trouble imagining that there is much more to be said on the matter until there is additional hard evidence.
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Don't feed the trolls. 


#313 lonlyamongus

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Posted June 17, 2016 - 11:15 AM

I'm not doing this.

 

See all of the other posts where I've destroyed everything you've just said.

 

It's like Groundhog Day.

lol, you haven't destroyed anything, except helping me kill time.


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#314 lakersince75

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 10:07 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a sport?



#315 GCMD

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 05:28 PM

You've destoyed nothing, dude. You're the one getting owned here. 

 

If you want to believe that, cool.

 

GCMD is a knowledgeable and insightful poster but his arrogant, sometimes condescending attitude about certain topics is frustrating.  The way he talks it's like anybody with half a brain couldn't possibly disagree with him even though he's admittedly been wrong about other things as recently as this past season.  It's not enough to agree with say 80% of his take on Randle.  If you diverge in any way from his exact line of thought you're lumped in with everyone else he perceives to be pro Randle no matter the degree.    

 

Not true but again, if you want to believe that, go for it.

 

lol, you haven't destroyed anything, except helping me kill time.

 

Takes a smart man to know when he's beaten.



#316 GCMD

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 08:38 PM

I'm personally not ready to give up on Randle yet. I see his weaknesses in his mentality. But physically he's a stud and he has a great skill set

Negative is he uses it for bad not good

With that body and foot speed he could be a terror in picks and rolling to match his outstanding rebounding ability

This is a guy who in his prime will probably give you 13-15rpg

But the truth is if he's not going to stop ball hogging then he won't fit. Because Ingram and Russell have all star/superstar potential. And they need a group around them that makes sense.

Clarkson is unselfish enough that he may make sense. However his defense also puts him in question. But the positive with him is he can shoot and score and will likely be under a very trade friendly contract.

If Randle did just totally disregard scoring. And just totally focused on rebounding, pushing the break, setting screens

Then he'd be THE ideal fit

 

I agree with this 100%...too bad that's not going to happen.  It's also why I think he's a 5 in this offense.

 

 

 

 

What is he this year? 

 

 

See Lebron and his freight train.   Once Bogut was out, no one on the Warriors can stop his train wrecking the paint for the taking.  

 

 

It is an analogy for his role, a threat against the paint is always good to have.  As a coach you want the roster to have multiple weapons that can attack from all vectors.  

 

 

You are bloating Randle's weakness beyond proportions for what?  Just so you can trade him for a worthless swingman?  A guy who can bully the paint is still a rare commodity, only a few can do it in the league.  You want to give him up before even trying to fit him into the offense is ridiculous.  If he doesn't work out, no one would have any problem trading him.  But as a logical fan i would want to give him a chance for the new system.  before trading his talent for a less but more refined role.  GSW system is nice and all but right now w/o a good C and solid paint presence they are struggling, and was struggling in the WCF against OKC.  You bet Kerr won't mind a player of Randle's talent right now in his roster.   Howard made it to the finals with bunch of shooters because he can roll to the basket hard and he can bully other players.  He doesn't have any post moves, but just pure physicality that out muscled most of other players.  Offensively Randle's traits are not serious flaws, his defense probably would cause more concerns than his offense. 

 

The red makes no sense.  None.

 

I brought this up many times when debating with GCMD, but it was always ignored. Randle iso'ing every time is bad basketball, but if he can control when to iso, that's something a team can use when they're struggling to score on the perimeter. 

 

GT, one of the most knowledgeable Laker fans, believes Randle can quickly learn the basic team elements, such as setting screens and playing cohesive basketball. I don't know about "quickly" or that he'll learn it, but you definitely have to see how he fares under Luke. 

 

He was able to score down low, although not always pretty, with absolutely no 3-point shot or midrange game. Spacing the floor only opens up the lane for him to score in the post even more. 

 

Randle isn't a post player so his ISO is very inefficient.  He's also not a threat from 3 so his ISO is very inefficient.  Randle's only skill that has anything to do with the post is his ability to run through people on his face-up drives and after the defense has shut down his face up drive.

 

He doesn't seal.  

He doesn't establish deep post position.  

He doesn't have a wide array of post moves.  

He doesn't have great post footwork.  

He doesn't even work with his back-to-the-basket.

 

Could we find a spot for him?  Sure...but if he's on the floor doing his ISO thing for more than 8mpg, we are in trouble.  No way you get that ISO thing to fit with Russell/Ingram/Clarkson...

 

Basketball is a team sport.  What you're suggesting is closer to wrestling, tennis or golf.

 

No joke I have had this exact thought and have not brought it up just to avoid another pointless Randle debate lol.  I don't think he's the best overall fit but I agree that sometimes when those 3s aren't falling and the team is going through a long scoring drought you need a guy to iso and get a couple tough baskets.  

 

We don't need 3s to run this system.  We can get better shots at the rim.  The best shots for GSW are 3's because they have Steph/Klay.  If we have/acquire players that shoot 45% from 3, we will live with those shots.  I trust that Luke can emphasize what shots are best for us.

 

If you watch GSW, they pass up a lot of layups and midrange shots to pass back out to the 3.  That won't be us.

 

Okafor is suppose to be the next Dream on the offensive end, he is not the battering ramp, he was designed to be the number 1 or 2 option.  Randle in a perfect system would be 3-4 option, or during a time when shooters are cold to keep the offensive going.  They are completely different roles.   

 

Okafor is a back-to-the-basket player.  He backs people down and uses his GIRTH to establish and maintain good deep post position.  That's the definition of a "battering ram" in BASKETBALL.  You must be thinking about FOOTBALL...

 

Philly sucked last year because they tried to make Okafor play more like KAT...

 

 

Coach K used him the right way...

 

 

That's a battering ram.

 

Randle is a battering ramp and he was used as such in college. 

 

His fit may not be the best for the team, but down the stretch you need something to happen, a good battering ramp often is a good option to have.

 

as long as Luke can preach Randle into team ball for the most part and still keep his bullying game, i don't see why we need to get rid of him.

 

GSW right now is missing that battering ramp type of player when their shots ain't falling.  

 

Not sure what you're talking about but Randle ran THROUGH people...that's an offensive foul most of the time in the NBA.

 

Since you want to go this route, how about these guys?

 

 

These 2 guys could be available at the #32, have enough talent and fit to be GREAT in this offense and can DEVELOP into a battering ram!

 

 

This guy IS a battering ram on offense and a much better DEFENDER than Randle now...he has more potential in this offense and can develop more quickly because of his ability to play WITHOUT the ball.

 

I can list about 10 BIGs in the draft that would fit the offense and would BENEFIT from being in this offense while feeding off the guards.  I can name at least 5 BIGs in this draft that have a mean streak and would relish the opportunity to play ISO BULLY BALL while being able to play off the ball and off the guards right now.

 

That's my problem with your suggestions.  They aren't what's best for the team.  We can find players in the draft, in Free Agency and in trade that do what Randle does (rebound/bully ball) while coming in with qualities that also make them good fits to the offense WITHOUT them changing their game or tendencies.

 

Why not go that route?

 

 

 

 

Stop putting word in my mouth, i merely pointing out the weakness of GSW's system. Warrior's system basketball is probably as good or better than Pop's system.  But doesn't mean it is flawless and not open up for critics.  What's happened to Warriors this series has been lack of options when shots aren't falling from 3 pt line.  and the other side continues to punish them from the inside.  you act like Warrior's system is killing the Cavs, but they are struggling w/o Bogut.  Last year they did it w/o Bogut because there were no consistent outside threat after Kyrie injured himself after game 1.  This year w/ Kyrie, James can dump to Kyrie on the parameter, punishing Curry on the defensive end.

 

 

you have 100% faith in something that never actually happened yet?

 

again stop putting words in my mouth, i emphasis again and again that RANDLE IS A GOOD OPTION to have when your outside shots aren't falling and the defense reads your motion offense and adjust well to defend your cutters.  The greatness of MJ, Kobe, Bird and Hakeem were their abilities to make things happen down the stretch when the team needs points to push over the top.  And that has been Lebron's problem during his previous failings at the championship run.  He often(not always) resorts to the system and pass the ball when he is the one who needs to score and make a difference.  

 

 

 

Committing on the team philosophy doesn't mean you give up your valuable assets before day 1 w/o finding some values in them so you can make your team better.  Warrior got Bogut with Monte Ellis, we traded Divac for the rights to Kobe.  All those good decisions were made with careful weighing of all options and wait for the right moment to pull the trigger while developing your player's values.  

 

 

 

Did you hear the first thing the Video 1 talked about?  the Coach must make the players aware of the importance of setting a good screen, in his examples, Hibbert were two of the examples, Randle was on two of the examples and Kobe was the other example.  these things are fundamentals that coaching staff must stress in practice (video said it not me), so yeah if the coaching staff have not been stressing those finer details of flaws in players games (you see a vet, a rook, and a end of career great all making the same mistake), then you can't just blame the players for failing their execution.  Randle is still young, things can still be picked up w/ the right coach, and if he doesn't send him away.  He only played one year of NBA basketball under probably the worst coach ever.  W/o giving him a chance in a proper environment is short changing the Lakers.  

 

 

 

Your point is a 73 win team that is MISSING their STARTING CENTER is struggling to compensate?  How profound!  That's not the same as the system being flawed...they didn't IGNORE the need for Bogut and run into the Cavs...the SYSTEM was designed with Bogut in mind.  Missing him and GSW struggling is common sense, no?

 

Randle isn't a good option to have in this offense.  Kobe would NOT do well in this offense, not without deviating completely.  Common Sense.  GSW is missing a STARTER.  Quit trying to make stuff up to fit your narrative.

 

If GSW needed a Randle type player, they would have gotten one by now.  But YOU think you know better than them...cool.  They just won an NBA Ch'ip last year with the same players, won 73 games this reg season with the same players and are 1 win away from repeating as NBA Champions...with the SAME players.

 

But because you said they need a Randle type player in their UNSELFISH offense, we should ALL believe you?  Cool.  LOL.

 

We traded for Kobe because of the things we could NOT teach.  We had elite perimeter defenders and AllStars at the guard position.  Name one thing Randle does that we need that we couldn't teach or coach into another player?  Or find a player who does the same thing as well WITHOUT being a bad fit?

 

That video was talking about teaching the players how to execute a PLAY or SET of PLAYS together.  Individual skills like P&R aren't taught 1-on-none...you start at age 10 with guards and BIGs in drills designed to teach KIDS how to set screens, proper footwork, proper reads BEFORE and AFTER the screen is set and when to reset.  If you want me to believe that Randle hasn't learned any of that yet, don't waste your time.  

 

We KNOW Hibbert CAN set screens and play off his man so we KNOW what we saw from him last year was a lack of emphasis by the coaching staff.  He has shown to be more than willing to set hard screens and roll/pop.  That's not the same thing as KNOWING Randle CAN set good screens or is even WILLING to.

 

Believe what you will.  I'm not trying to convince you.  I'm merely pointing out fallacies and errors.  Feel free to ignore my commentary.



#317 GCMD

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 08:52 PM

Here is what should scare all of you:

 

What happens if GCMD is RIGHT?

 

What if Randle doesn't want to play unselfishly?

What if Randle can't pick up the offense?

What if Randle gets benched for Nance?

 

Could we possibly get more for him if he doesn't do well in this offense or on this roster than we can get now?

Is there any chance he helps the team in more than 10mpg?

Is there any team that's trying to shift focus to the NEW NBA take a chance on Randle if he bombs with Luke?

 

 

What happens if I'm wrong?

 

Best case scenario, Randle's potential in this offense is dependent on and limited by his ability to correct his court awareness, give up being the #1 option in this offense, make the right pass and play off ball while playing good D.

 

How long does it take to correct court awareness?

How long before he gives up being the #1 option in this offense?

Will he ever be able to make the right pass, not just play hot potato?

How long before he learns to play off the ball?  Or good D?

 

If I'm right, it's much more riskier to keep him.  If I'm wrong, how much changing do we see in the 1st season and does it get any better than that?

 

If we trade him and he becomes an AllStar, cool.  That's not the same as giving up on him.  Unless he goes to GSW, there is no correlation between Randle's possible future with or without the Lakers because I seriously doubt any other team will use him the way he'd be asked to be used here.

 

Many of you think I'm anti-Randle.  I'm pro-GSW Style Basketball.  If Randle had any chance of being great in this offense, I'd be one of his staunchest supporters...I don't claim to know the future but I would not make a decision about the FUTURE of the Lakers without considering what is reality RIGHT NOW.

 

Give me an example of a player like Randle who came into the league as an ISO PF and left the league as an unselfish player and I will consider what you all have said as possible.



#318 GCMD

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Posted June 18, 2016 - 09:26 PM

Well, if Randle starts, I'd rather it be at the 5 than the 4.  Until he learns to pass the ball efficiently, the first and most important aspect of the game he needs to learn is how to play off the ball.  It's more likely he fits as the guy setting hard screens and getting most of his points on lobs, backdoors, seals and dives from the elbow.

 

If Randle is in a ballhandling position next season as a starter, the offense will take much longer to install and even longer to perfect.  Not a good idea.

 

Festus Ezeli's role is best for Randle.  Don't pay attention to the shotblocking.  Watch the P&R and the finishes near the rim.  Watch how he rebounds the offensive misses.  Watch how he gets the rim quickly on the P&R.

 

 

This is the best possible situation for Randle in this offense...he's a finisher and in this role, his instincts and tendencies would not have to change as long as he can recognize the SPOTS he needs to be in and places he can score from.

 

If he is tasked with making reads with the ball in his hands or taking more than 4 dribbles, we're in trouble.  The best shot in his mind will always be the one he creates.

 

 

Setting down screens and off ball screens will get him a LOT of shots at or near the rim.  That's my suggestion.

 

And when the time is right, like after timeouts and end of quarters, we can use the fact that he doesn't NORMALLY handle the ball to our advantage by having him fake like he's going for the dribble hand-off and have him full-bore attack the rim.

 

That's how I would use him...CENTER, all the way.

 

I hope this satisfies anyone who wants to know what I think Randle in this offense will look like at his best.  Again, just my opinion.  Don't have a hissy fit over it.  I could be wrong (but I don't think so).  The offense would require a LOT more off ball P&R but it's doable...and I don't think he's a good fit defensively but we didn't have a defense last year...they all need work.



#319 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 19, 2016 - 07:18 AM


 

Takes a smart man to know when he's beaten.

I'm amazed at the arrogance you put on display here, but you hit the nail right on its head.


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#320 lakerfan98

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Posted June 19, 2016 - 09:04 AM

Here is what should scare all of you:

 

What happens if GCMD is RIGHT?

 

What if Randle doesn't want to play unselfishly?

What if Randle can't pick up the offense?

What if Randle gets benched for Nance?

 

Could we possibly get more for him if he doesn't do well in this offense or on this roster than we can get now?

Is there any chance he helps the team in more than 10mpg?

Is there any team that's trying to shift focus to the NEW NBA take a chance on Randle if he bombs with Luke?

 

 

What happens if I'm wrong?

 

Best case scenario, Randle's potential in this offense is dependent on and limited by his ability to correct his court awareness, give up being the #1 option in this offense, make the right pass and play off ball while playing good D.

 

How long does it take to correct court awareness?

How long before he gives up being the #1 option in this offense?

Will he ever be able to make the right pass, not just play hot potato?

How long before he learns to play off the ball?  Or good D?

 

If I'm right, it's much more riskier to keep him.  If I'm wrong, how much changing do we see in the 1st season and does it get any better than that?

 

If we trade him and he becomes an AllStar, cool.  That's not the same as giving up on him.  Unless he goes to GSW, there is no correlation between Randle's possible future with or without the Lakers because I seriously doubt any other team will use him the way he'd be asked to be used here.

 

Many of you think I'm anti-Randle.  I'm pro-GSW Style Basketball.  If Randle had any chance of being great in this offense, I'd be one of his staunchest supporters...I don't claim to know the future but I would not make a decision about the FUTURE of the Lakers without considering what is reality RIGHT NOW.

 

Give me an example of a player like Randle who came into the league as an ISO PF and left the league as an unselfish player and I will consider what you all have said as possible.

 

I think a lot of posters here agree with most of your take on Randle with the main hangup being that you seem to feel some great sense of urgency to trade him immediately and others do not.  For you last year's trade deadline was the time to cut him loose and other people want to see what he can do with Luke and vice versa before judging him completely.   


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