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Julius Randle & D'Angelo Russell


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#4941 kidpolean

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Posted June 15, 2017 - 11:10 PM

I think Andre Miller can be a decent comparison, actually. I see much of the same court-vision and craftiness that Miller had, despite being a below-the-rim type of PG. I just think that Russell's size and insane length combined with his shooting gives him far more upside. If Miller was 6'5'' with a had a near 6'10'' wingspan and a 3pt shot he'd be a multiple all-star.

I consider a good comparison to be a player that you could see the younger player eventually resembling in their prime, unless we are discussing two players with similar NBA experience. I don't think Russell will ever resemble Miller due to how much he relies on his jumpshot. If Miller could shoot, his entire game likely changes so imo it's a weird comparison to make.

Maybe we just have different views on what a good comparison is. Agree to disagree, I guess.

Edited by kidpolean, June 15, 2017 - 11:12 PM.


#4942 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 15, 2017 - 11:22 PM

I consider a good comparison to be a player that you could see the younger player eventually resembling in their prime, unless we are discussing two players with similar NBA experience. I don't think Russell will ever resemble Miller due to how much he relies on his jumpshot. If Miller could shoot, his entire game likely changes so imo it's a weird comparison to make.

Maybe we just have different views on what a good comparison is. Agree to disagree, I guess.

That's fair.

 

Hard to find a good comp, though.

 

I see some of the skill, court-vision and craftiness of guys like Curry and Andre Miller. But he's the size of Brandon Roy.



#4943 LakeShow1o1

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 01:09 AM

Great comparisons for D'Angelo Russell in my opinion are.

 

Taller and lengthier versions of...

A) Chauncey Billups

B) Damon Stoudamire 

C) Sam Cassell

 

None of these guys were tremendous athletes nor where they crazy quick.  They simply had a great offensive game and were threats from both the perimeter as well as mid/close range.



#4944 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 04:19 AM

I think Andre Miller can be a decent comparison, actually. I see much of the same court-vision and craftiness that Miller had, despite being a below-the-rim type of PG. I just think that Russell's size and insane length combined with his shooting gives him far more upside. If Miller was 6'5'' with a had a near 6'10'' wingspan and a 3pt shot he'd be a multiple all-star.

 

 

 

Miller lacked tools Russell has, we ALL agreed on that.  The shooting will make Russell a more reliable scorer.  When you compare their use of footwork, angles, hesitations, balance, it's a good comparison...and their athleticism matches up, at least they are similar.

 

Not sure why other people are taking this as an insult.  A taller Miller with a shot is still a very good player.  People forget that Miller is pretty high up on the assist list.


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#4945 Majesty

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 09:15 AM

A taller, better shooting Andre Miller isn't Andre Miller though. 

It's like calling somebody a better shooting, stronger, bigger, taller, more athletic, Steve Nash.   

Well then.. they aren't Steve Nash :P 


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#4946 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 09:23 AM

Exactly what I was thinking. It's like saying, he's like iverson but 6-5

Then he's not iverson

Or he's like tony Allen with a 3 point shot, well then he's not tony Allen

Those kinds of allowances mean for totally different production level
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#4947 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 10:59 AM

A taller, better shooting Andre Miller isn't Andre Miller though. 

It's like calling somebody a better shooting, stronger, bigger, taller, more athletic, Steve Nash.   

Well then.. they aren't Steve Nash :P

 

 

This would be an astute point...

 

If the original discussion wasn't centered around Russell's ATHLETICISM and SCORING, not a 1-to-1 player comparison.

 

 

We weren't doing a "Who does Russell become" debate.

 

We were doing a "Russell's athleticism is like" debate.

 

 

I made the claim that though Russell is a decent scorer, it doesn't project to become ELITE because he doesn't have the athleticism to accomplish that at EITHER guard spot.  In support of that claim, I made the comparison between Russell's Athleticism, footwork, scoring and use of angles to ANDRE MILLER.  He was another below the rim player who used good handles, post player and craftiness to make up for a lack of elite speed, athleticism and burst.

 

So you're trying to make an argument that did not exist.  No one is arguing that they are the SAME player, though they have similar athleticism, scoring style and footwork.  Major difference is their shooting...height is a NON FACTOR because Miller was a MUCH better passer in year 2 of his NBA Career...


Edited by GCMD, June 16, 2017 - 10:59 AM.

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#4948 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 11:04 AM

Exactly what I was thinking. It's like saying, he's like iverson but 6-5

Then he's not iverson

Or he's like tony Allen with a 3 point shot, well then he's not tony Allen

Those kinds of allowances mean for totally different production level

 

 

So essentially, you're saying that no one should be compared to ANYONE unless they have every single attribute?

 

 

This would be stupid...and most PROFESSIONAL SCOUTS would disagree with this stance.  It's done every single year by NBA SCOUTS.

 

 

You guys are just trolling because you don't like the comparison...that's cool.  Doesn't make it a bad comparison.  Russell's game is similar to Miller's in a LOT of ways...you can't dismiss that just because they aren't clones.

 

 

 

 

I can go to the Draft Thread and pull up posts of ALL of you doing EXACTLY what you just claimed is wrong...ALL of you do it every year.

 

 

Majesty, you want to go back and look at your DANTE EXUM posts?  LOL...busted...


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#4949 lakerfan98

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 11:50 AM

There are similarities in their games.  But for every similarity there is a glaring difference and for that reason I believe it is a poor comparison.  

 

Even if you shelve the physical and statistical comparison in my opinion they don't really play anything like each other on the court.  Russell has more of a scorers mentality and his game is much more perimeter oriented than Miller.

 

Dirk and Marc Gasol are both savy, unathletic 7 footers but I wouldn't compare them.   



#4950 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 01:07 PM

There are similarities in their games.  But for every similarity there is a glaring difference and for that reason I believe it is a poor comparison.  

 

Even if you shelve the physical and statistical comparison in my opinion they don't really play anything like each other on the court.  Russell has more of a scorers mentality and his game is much more perimeter oriented than Miller.

 

Dirk and Marc Gasol are both savy, unathletic 7 footers but I wouldn't compare them.   

 

 

This is not accurate.  

 

Miller and Russell both play in the post a lot more than most guards.

Miller and Russell both are slow compared to most guards.

Miller and Russell both play below the rim.

Miller and Russell both use their handles and their body control to create driving lanes.

Miller and Russell both have trouble blowing by players.

Miller and Russell both use their footwork more than physically dominating on the perimeter.

 

 

Russell is taller and longer with a better 3.  That's about it.  The taller and longer part WON'T HELP HIM if he's too slow to get by players, which he is most of the time.  It does help him pass but he's got a LONG WAY TO GO to catch up to Miller's passing.

 

 

Another comparison that most people accept is Jason Kidd and Lonzo Ball.

 

Ball is taller, longer and a better shooter.  He's a better athlete.  Kidd was better in the P&R and a better defender but he also played 2 years of college ball, not one.

 

Do you dispute the Kidd/Ball comparison?  Nope...95% of people I talked with claim it's SPOT ON...most professional SCOUTS claim it's SPOT ON.

 

 

 

So why is the Russell/Miller comparison crazy?  All of a sudden, you CAN'T compare 2 players if they aren't EXACTLY alike?  Come on, man.  Be fair.


Edited by GCMD, June 16, 2017 - 01:15 PM.

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#4951 kidpolean

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 01:21 PM

This is not accurate.

Miller and Russell both play in the post a lot more than most guards.
Miller and Russell both are slow compared to most guards.
Miller and Russell both play below the rim.
Miller and Russell both use their handles and their body control to create driving lanes.
Miller and Russell both have trouble blowing by players.
Miller and Russell both use their footwork more than physically dominating on the perimeter.

https://www.youtube....h?v=DOyKFjUrHTA
https://www.youtube....h?v=owqGL6eUoIs

Russell is taller and longer with a better 3. That's about it. The taller and longer part WON'T HELP HIM if he's too slow to get by players, which he is most of the time. It does help him pass but he's got a LONG WAY TO GO to catch up to Miller's passing.


Another comparison that most people accept is Jason Kidd and Lonzo Ball.

Ball is taller, longer and a better shooter. He's a better athlete. Kidd was better in the P&R and a better defender but he also played 2 years of college ball, not one.

Do you dispute the Kidd/Ball comparison? Nope...95% of people I talked with claim it's SPOT ON...most professional SCOUTS claim it's SPOT ON.



So why is the Russell/Miller comparison crazy? All of a sudden, you CAN'T compare 2 players if they aren't EXACTLY alike? Come on, man. Be fair.

As a player comparison to predict the player Russell could become, this is a terrible comparison. If you are simply talking about athleticism then it's fine although I think Russell is actually the better athlete.

That's my final opinion on this. It is what it is.

Edited by kidpolean, June 16, 2017 - 01:36 PM.


#4952 GCMD

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Posted June 16, 2017 - 01:43 PM

As a player comparison to predict the player Russell could become, this is a terrible comparison. If you are simply talking about athleticism then it's fine although I think Russell is actually the better athlete.

That's my final opinion on this. It is what it is.

 

 

I DIDN'T use that to predict what Russell will become!!!

 

 

I've said those words over and over and over!!!!

 

 

This was a discussion of Russell's athleticism.  Someone claimed he was a good athlete and another claimed he could become an elite scorer.  I disputed both claims and compared Russell's athleticism, footwork, scoring potential to Miller's.  I compared how Miller got his shots off as an attack guard to how RUSSELL got his shot off as an attack guard.  Neither had the speed or burst to just blow by people.

 

 

I feel like I keep typing the same things over and over because people refuse to read the previous posts, quote me with something that is obviously not what I said AND obviously inaccurate and then make up a contrarian argument just to dispute my claim.

 

If you don't think you can compare Russell and Miller because Russell is a better shooter, I dispute your claim.  Prove it.  I also dispute the claim that a comparison is IMPOSSIBLE unless the players are EXACT in all parameters.  

 

Ball is in your court.


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#4953 Ventiquattro

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Posted June 17, 2017 - 12:19 AM

 

 

 



#4954 GCMD

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Posted June 17, 2017 - 02:41 PM

 

 

I tried to resist for as long as I could!!!   LOL...


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#4955 lakersince75

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 04:55 PM

Miller was great in the PnR too. LMAO. Going to check now to see if Miller played for the Nets at one time.
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#4956 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 05:10 PM

Guess this thread should be renamed. Lol

Julius Randle
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#4957 DTIII™

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 05:12 PM

Guess this thread should be renamed. Lol

Julius Randle

I came in here to say the same thing lmao


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#4958 Ventiquattro

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 07:23 PM

Guess this thread should be renamed. Lol

Julius Randle

hahaha.. Or maybe locked.

 

Randle + Deng for the 60th pick in the draft. And well go to GCMD's dinner party wearing Magic's Jersey.. 

 

 

Also we'd celebrate a cake with CAP SPACE written on it..


Edited by Ventiquattro, June 20, 2017 - 07:24 PM.


#4959 Tensai

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 09:30 PM

Nah this thread should just be renamed to "Thank You Julius Randle & D'Angelo Russell"

 

Save some resources.


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#4960 Disaster in Paradise

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Posted June 20, 2017 - 09:31 PM

Nah this thread should just be renamed to "Thank You Julius Randle & D'Angelo Russell"

Save some resources.


And Ingram.

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