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#821 JGuez

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 11:58 AM

give me a specific player on that list and ill tell you why....not including Kobe or the 3 that I stated were arguable. Im not doing a Kobe vs Clarkson debate because its ridiculous and the other three are close. 

 

Id like to here how Clarkson is better than Wade, Butler, Harden, Manu, Derozan, Beal, Batum, Oladipo, Klay, Middleton, or Korver

 

How are Rodney Hood, Zach Lavine, Manu Ginobili, Kris Middleton and Korver better TODAY than Clarkson?

 

Because based on Danish's list those are the guys I disagree as being better today. 



#822 Massacre

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:04 PM

Clarkson not better than Manu, Middleton, Hood, Lavine and Korver...haha.
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#823 Wilt Chamberneezy

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:07 PM

Come on man Middleton has been pretty bad this whole season. Clarkson is easily better than him.



#824 JGuez

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:11 PM

Clarkson not better than Manu, Middleton, Hood, Lavine and Korver...haha.

 

I disagree. I could maybe argue myself out of saying Manu though just from his ball IQ is really underrated and should be factored in.

 

Hood, Middleton, Lavine all shoot a worse % than Clarkson, and they don't have as nearly as many ways to score.

 

Korver this year has been solid but he isn't remotely close to what he was the past 2 seasons prior. Clarkson is even shooting a higher 3% than Korver. Not to mention Korver's defense is awful....

 

That said if my life was on the line and it was "Whoever makes the most threes between Korver and Clarkson...go!" I'd obviously choose Korver. 

 

So yeah I'll give you Manu because I kind of have a hard time arguing why Clarkson is better than he is, but Hood, MIddleton, LaVine and Korver? Based on today I would take Clarkson over those guys.


Edited by JGuez, December 06, 2015 - 12:12 PM.


#825 LakeShow1o1

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:13 PM

What's ironic is Clarkson isn't even being utilized properly...

 

Put him and D'Angelo Russell into the Suns offensive scheme and their numbers would be RIDICULOUS.  However, this team's issue lies heavily on the defensive end.  I've seen nothing but DONUTS from Clarkson defensively...



#826 Massacre

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:14 PM

I disagree. I could maybe argue myself out of saying Manu though just from his ball IQ is really underrated and should be factored in.

Hood, Middleton, Lavine all shoot a worse % than Clarkson, and they don't have as nearly as many ways to score.

Korver this year has been solid but he isn't remotely close to what he was the past 2 seasons prior. Clarkson is even shooting a higher 3% than Korver. Not to mention Korver's defense is awful....

That said if my life was on the line and it was "Whoever makes the most threes between Korver and Clarkson...go!" I'd obviously choose Korver.

So yeah I'll give you Manu because I kind of have a hard time arguing why Clarkson is better than he is, but Hood, MIddleton, LaVine and Korver? Based on today I would take Clarkson over those guys.


Oh no, I'm laughing at the thought of them being better. I agree with you. :laughing:
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#827 JGuez

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:15 PM

Oh no, I'm laughing at the thought of them being better. I agree with you. :laughing:

 

Gotcha.  :laughing:

 

I was actually shocked because you and I tend to agree on a lot of stuff I think.


Edited by JGuez, December 06, 2015 - 12:15 PM.

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#828 Mumford

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:27 PM

this is an attempt at adding factors to a statement to get your point across

 

Talking about adding factors to a statement to get your point across...

 

playing better and being better are two different things. If Kobe actually cared and played to win, he is still better than Clarkson and everyone on this team imo.

 

Is Clarkson better than Lou? I dont think so even though he has outplayed him thus far. 



#829 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:29 PM

Talking about adding factors to a statement to get your point across...

I didn't add or change anything



#830 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 12:46 PM

Only thing Clarkson does well is score efficiently, he is weak in just about every other aspect of the game. So if you are saying he is better than any other player, than your argument is that his scoring outweighs everything that the player in comparison brings to the table.

 

I dont think he is better on either side of the ball than Manu. You can make the argument that he is slightly better offensively but Manu has the higher PER. On top of that Manu averages nearly identical rebounds/assists while playing 12 less mpg. Plus Manu is better defensively imo. Manu is older and cant handle as many minutes but imo he is still better while on the floor than Clarkson.

 

Hood and Lavine were both on my arguable list that I posted earlier and I believe that they can easily go either way. Lavine imo is still a better passer and defender. As far as scoring ability they are pretty close.Ill say this though, if he isnt better yet he will be really soon.

 

Middleton may not be as versatile offensively as Clarkson but thats about it. Middleton is a great 3pt shooter and plays within his role. Defensively, he is so superior to Clarkson that I fail to see why we are even comparing the two. Middleton is easily better.

 

Do you think that Clarkson is that much better than Middleton offensively that it makes up for the difference in defensive ability?

 

Korver is still the better shooter imo and both suck defensively...Clarkson can just score in more ways than Korver. Korver has a more limited role though. Its close


Edited by kidpolean, December 06, 2015 - 12:52 PM.


#831 KSOR24

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 01:12 PM

I don't think it's fair to bring up Clarkson's assist numbers. He has to defer to Russell and Kobe and allow them to run the offense, so whenever he gets the ball he is looking to score. I don't know what his assist numbers look like when they're off the floor, but I'm sure it's better, even though he still has to play with Lou. Clarkson averaged 5 assists a game post all star break last year. That's pretty good for someone who "just scores efficiently." And we all know he's capable of rebounding at a higher level. His defense is a legitimate concern, but he's young and athletic, so an actual defensive coach (not Byron) could turn him into at least an average defender. He has an insane work ethic and he continues to improve, so it's pretty disheartening to see fans write him off and say we shouldn't keep him. 14 million really isn't a lot of money considering the cap rise.

#832 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 01:28 PM

I don't think it's fair to bring up Clarkson's assist numbers. He has to defer to Russell and Kobe and allow them to run the offense, so whenever he gets the ball he is looking to score. I don't know what his assist numbers look like when they're off the floor, but I'm sure it's better, even though he still has to play with Lou. Clarkson averaged 5 assists a game post all star break last year. That's pretty good for someone who "just scores efficiently." And we all know he's capable of rebounding at a higher level. His defense is a legitimate concern, but he's young and athletic, so an actual defensive coach (not Byron) could turn him into at least an average defender. He has an insane work ethic and he continues to improve, so it's pretty disheartening to see fans write him off and say we shouldn't keep him. 14 million really isn't a lot of money considering the cap rise.

"Clarkson averaged 5 assists a game post all star break last year."

 

Ok so can I bring up how Korver was far better than Clarkson last year?

 

a lot of the players on that list arent the main facilitator for their team, including Manu which is the player I was comparing him too. You're giving Clarkson a pass for something that 90% of that list also deals with

 

We all know he is a better rebounder? Well we all know that Middleton is a more efficient shooter than he is shooting as well but I dont see anybody making that argument simply because he isnt a laker.

 

There isnt a person on that list that I feel Clarkson is hands down better than


Edited by kidpolean, December 06, 2015 - 01:36 PM.


#833 KSOR24

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 01:38 PM

Dude Manu's situation isn't even comparable. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Lakers are one of the worst passing teams in the league, and the Spurs are one of the best. I'm not making an excuse for one player. Everybody on this team has low assist numbers, including Russell. Are you going to say that Russell isn't a good passer? It doesn't take a genius to see that Clarkson can run an offense better than Middleton.

And I never said that we can't talk about last year. Korver averaged 12 points a game, so I don't see how you could argue that he had a better season. Scoring is literally all he does, and Clarkson was better at it. Middleton is a solid two way player, and you could make the argument that he's better, but Korver and Ginobli at this stage of their careers are not better.
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#834 Majesty

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 01:59 PM

One of the most devastating things a franchise can do is to spend too much money on the wrong players because they feel they have to. They dont and are often better off sell high.

Based on what Clarkson has done so far this season, i think matching a 14M/yr deal would be a mistake. I may be wrong and he may yet change my mind.


Then you're wrong. But I'll reply in turn once I get home.

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#835 Lakerace24

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 02:27 PM

Oh god forbid Clarkson doesn't stack up against players that have all been in the league longer than he has. There's no way he can get better than he is right now, even though he has shown great improvement the last two seasons. Let's just waive him now and cut our losses.

#836 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 03:05 PM

Oh god forbid Clarkson doesn't stack up against players that have all been in the league longer than he has. There's no way he can get better than he is right now, even though he has shown great improvement the last two seasons. Let's just waive him now and cut our losses.

nobody has said anything close to this



#837 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 03:13 PM

Dude Manu's situation isn't even comparable. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Lakers are one of the worst passing teams in the league, and the Spurs are one of the best. I'm not making an excuse for one player. Everybody on this team has low assist numbers, including Russell. Are you going to say that Russell isn't a good passer? It doesn't take a genius to see that Clarkson can run an offense better than Middleton.

And I never said that we can't talk about last year. Korver averaged 12 points a game, so I don't see how you could argue that he had a better season. Scoring is literally all he does, and Clarkson was better at it. Middleton is a solid two way player, and you could make the argument that he's better, but Korver and Ginobli at this stage of their careers are not better.

Manu is better on both sides of the ball easily imo

 

Who said anything about Middleton running an offense better than Clarkson? That wasnt the discussion. Middleton isnt a ball dominant player nor is he a facilitator. They play within two completely different roles.

 

Clarkson isnt miles ahead of Middleton on the offensive end like Middleton is miles ahead of Clarkson defensively.

 

WTF??? Korver wasnt better than Clarkson last year? I hope that is a joke! Dude was shooting 50/50/90 for the majority of the season on a team with the best record in the East


Edited by kidpolean, December 06, 2015 - 03:23 PM.


#838 KSOR24

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 03:41 PM

At the end of the day Korver only averaged 12 points on 2 less shots per game. At best his scoring was slightly better, and if they had the same volume Clarkson still would've contributed to his team's points more because of his higher assist total (after the all star break). I have no idea why you're bringing up his team's record. This is an individual comparison. And I'm not going to argue about Middleton because I'm not saying he isn't better. I was just saying Clarkson is a better offensive player.

#839 KidRN

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 03:53 PM

At the end of the day Korver only averaged 12 points on 2 less shots per game. At best his scoring was slightly better, and if they had the same volume Clarkson still would've contributed to his team's points more because of his higher assist total (after the all star break). I have no idea why you're bringing up his team's record. This is an individual comparison. And I'm not going to argue about Middleton because I'm not saying he isn't better. I was just saying Clarkson is a better offensive player.

I bring up his record because it is a reflection of a players talent especially if they are a starter. Clarkson was a ball dominant #1 option on a terrible team and his numbers reflect that. His efficiency is up and everything else is down this season because of his role change. A PPG comparison between a #4 option on the best team in the east to a #1 option on the 2nd worse team in the west is silly to begin with.

 

This is some crazy Laker bias. I have no clue how anybody could truly believe that Clarkson was better than Korver last season.


Edited by kidpolean, December 06, 2015 - 03:55 PM.


#840 BasketballIQ

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Posted December 06, 2015 - 04:17 PM

Clarkson is more skilled, Korver was more effective




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