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The Lakers offense and defense


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#1 Real Deal

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 01:46 AM

I don't want to dive into this too much, but I probably will. I'm not looking at the loss, but how we run our offense and execute our defense.

1) The Lakers are TRYING to run what the Spurs used to back when Mike Brown was assistant under Pop. It's a "four out, one in" offense (there are multiple names for it), and I don't think it's going to work. Popovich worked the opposing teams with a Duncan/Robinson duo, one being the greatest PF of all time, the other an incredibly underrated center that is one of the best we were watching in the 90's.

Let me put it this way: now we know why we signed Kapono and Murphy, and why we drafted Goudelock.

My gripe with it all is...Bynum is not an effective passer out of the post. You can tell him over and over again (Phil did), and it won't register. He will not create out of the post. He's not Hakeem, not Shaq, and he never will be. Sure, if you took Gasol's mentality (someone who wants to create) and mixed it with the aggressive low post play of Bynum, we'd have the perfect center...but that's not how it works. Gasol is not a low post player, and Drew is not a low post facilitator.

This also seems to take the ball out of Kobe's hands more often, which is okay...except, when he does get the ball, despite being at his "sweet spots" (as Brown noted he wanted to see happen), the defense doesn't have much of a problem doubling him because they are not worried about our three-point shooters. When Kobe catches at the elbow, for example, his positioning makes it easy for a perimeter defender to leave his man and double...and what man would he leave? Ron? He would gladly do it. Gasol? Sure thing.

We aren't going to get very far with this offense. Something has to give. I would not be surprised to see changes very early in the season.

2) Our defense isn't impressive, and not because of the system, but because of our players. At some point, even Brown's system will look bad. Our defensive transitions are terrible. Aside from McRoberts, I didn't see much weak side help. Recovering and contesting outside shots...didn't see much of it, and it's not always about effort, but our players are getting worked because the Clippers (who are a new team) used spacing to pull our defense apart, and when a defense feels disconnected, it tends to collapse inward, and that's where we let shooters drift to the outside, far too open for us to contest.

Half of our guys don't have the legs to cover that kind of ground for all 48 minutes, and this will get worse as we progress through an 82-game season (well...66 this year).

3) We will have no depth on our roster. I'm actually fine with Ebanks and Morris starting, but both will be eaten alive many times throughout the season. What does that matter, though, when I can say the same about Artest and Fisher/Blake? Artest will only be good for us defending Paul Pierce (can't say he'll be effective against Durant, as I've seen KD in practices, and he has been focusing on eliminating his problems against physical defenders...won't get into it, because I'll type forever, but you'll see this season). In other words, Ron shouldn't see much time on the court. His contract, and now his play, is a detriment to our game. I like the guy, but I have to be honest. Same with Fisher and Blake. I know just how bad Fisher will play this season, so I didn't need to see him...but Blake does not rake in enough defensive attention to create for anyone, and a simple post-entry pass every time down the court doesn't make him any more valuable than Darius Morris.

Outside of McRoberts, who will be a pretty good sixth man for us if he gets consistent playing time, we won't have much. Barnes isn't the same player we saw in his early years with other teams...just too many minor injuries stacking up and changing his game, will have good and bad games all season long. Goudelock could be fine, but the verdict is still out on him. Walton is done. Fisher is done for 95% of the minutes he will play (I'll give him the green light to shoot a clutch shot at the end of the game, but that doesn't make up for his bad play for the other 20 minutes or so).

I'd like to see us do something with that TPE, even if it means getting a starting PG or SF...but looking at other rosters, I'm not sure what would be available right now, aside from dealing Drew and the TPE to Orlando, which I would do in a heartbeat.

--------

Again, this isn't about us losing. I expected the loss, as long as the Clippers were going to play Griffin, CP3 and their starting unit for a significant amount of time. As I said in another topic, the Clippers put together a team of guys that compliment each other well.

The fact is, our team of guys only compliment each other in the triangle offense, and when Kobe is able to dominate. Rewrite the script, and expect more out of our post...we don't make it. Gasol is not a low post player, and Drew is not THAT big of a threat under the rim (and if he was, he would still decline to pass the ball). Brown needs to understand that this is NOT Tim Duncan and David Robinson. An offense that asks for our bigs to facilitate for Kobe? That hasn't happened since Shaq, and that was really only in the early stages of the dynasty.

Tonight, the Clippers ran through the motions. They played off of open shooters, took what was given to them. When we play them again (twice), in January...especially the late January game...they could be rolling, and I wouldn't be shocked to see them roll completely over us. Giving them a month to learn how to pick and roll with CP3, drawing up fast break plays with Griffin and Jordan running the sidelines...they didn't do that tonight, but they will soon. We were out there to win, not to experiment, and what we saw from our guys duplicated what we saw from them against the Dallas Mavericks, minus better play from Kobe...and that tells me nothing will change, because all of that was based on teams exploiting our many weaknesses, something that isn't hard to do against a team led by a 16-year veteran that needs his teammates to hit open shots, take the low post and attract defenders, and create a few shots of their own as he plays off the ball a bit.

In short, don't expect to see much improvement from last season. A healthy Kobe would've still seen a loss to an elite Dallas Mavericks team. The difference is, now, we have trashed an offense that led to five championship rings, and has been the staple in Kobe's career. We may see more athleticism on the defensive end, as guys like Ebanks, McRoberts and Morris will see time on the floor...but our defensive awareness will still suffer, and above everything else, our offense will be a thorn in our side, unless Brown realizes what he truly has in the frontcourt, and adjusts accordingly.
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#2 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 02:53 AM

So do you think they should just take the plunge and send Bynum and gasol for Howard.

Also I do believe Morris and ebanks need to start if Howards here or not. Because at the end of the day Blake and fisher are who they are. Ebanks and Morris can improve greatly by seasons end.

You would sacrifice some record but by seasons end you would have 2 guys possibly comfortable with the NBA game
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#3 Majesty

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 03:21 AM

I would say not to try to guess everything they are doing after one preseason game. it's hard to really have the best idea for what they want to run when the starting lineups aren't even set yet. He's obviously trying different things to see what works. He has said before that some of it will look familiar but if it doesn't work, don't expect to see much of it.

So I'd wait and see till all the pieces start to fall in place what his plan exactly is going to be.

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#4 bigfetz

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 04:43 AM

Ya I didn't really focus on what kind of offense they were running cause I just wanted to enjoy the game but thanks for pointing it out. You are correct this is not the right offense for them. It's not getting shooters open and it is putting people in the wrong positions. Also the defense was just awful. I mean I know brown has only been there for a while but this was pathetic. The 1st half wasnt to bad for our offense but I could see right after that 30 point 1st quarter this defense is not doing well. They need to fix allot on that. We really just need a big name player though. Mainly just because it would boost our teams confidence allot. They are really just bummed I think cause it looked like we were getting cp3 and we didnt and it looked like were getting howard and that is probably soon to be out of the question. What we need is just someone that can just give some energy into this team like when we got pau.

#5 Miggs

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 05:05 AM

So do you think they should just take the plunge and send Bynum and gasol for Howard.

Also I do believe Morris and ebanks need to start if Howards here or not. Because at the end of the day Blake and fisher are who they are. Ebanks and Morris can improve greatly by seasons end.

You would sacrifice some record but by seasons end you would have 2 guys possibly comfortable with the NBA game

Yes.. Gasol and Bynum will not work in this system.


Oh yeah by the way this system looks like sh***
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#6 Air Apparent

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 07:42 AM

our bad defensive habits are becoming very hard to get rid off now

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#7 Majesty

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 08:59 AM

Offense wasn't the problem. Defense and leaving three point shooters on the Clippers wide open 9 times out of 10 was.

The offense would work fine with this Lakers system, since it's defense where they faltered. Despite Artest going 0 for 8 the Lakers were actually very good at the shots they took and shot a high percentage. The problem was they gave up way too many points to wide open threes. This was a major factor.

When the Lakers get rid of that defensive lapse which Mike Brown is gonna be working harder on especially after last night, they should be fine.

"Bryant had come to rage against the idea that Howard's clownish disposition could overtake the locker room, the Lakers' culture, and had warned Howard that he would never, ever let it happen." 


#8 RayRay

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 09:37 AM

this thread depressed me and mate me hate Stern more.
only Kobe can stop Kobe.

#9 Grandpa Herman

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:40 AM

I think part of the problem was pace somewhat. We didn't control the tempo of the game at all. We should've slowed the game down and fed the post. Dominate the game by physicality in the paint.
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#10 True Lakers Fan

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:43 AM

this thread depressed me and mate me hate Stern more.


Get over it!

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#11 Bynumite17

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 10:46 AM

Our offense looks like complete [expletive], the plays are just garbage from what I saw. Defense, I didn't like how far Bynum had to come out on the guards, didn't have time to get position for the rebounds down-low. :nah:

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#12 MDI

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 11:05 AM

I think our defense can improve. They gave up a ton of 3s yesterday because they were confused on defensive rotations. Brown will fix it.

Im really concerned about our offense. Unless Kobe can score 32-35 points a game this current roster is gonna have problems getting to 100.

Edited by MDI, December 20, 2011 - 11:05 AM.

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#13 Notorious Arab

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 11:37 AM

I dont think we executed the offense is all. They barely had any time to get a feel for it. But then again, how hard is it to feed the post?

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#14 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 12:28 PM

I agree that it seems offensively this roster is best suited for the triangle but time will tell I'll hold of my judgments until after a few regular season games.

#15 David

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 01:42 PM

Our defense can improve. New coach, new system, and new players. Half of our defensive problems can be fixed with them actually trying and play with effort and energy instead of just going through the motions. Another issue I saw was that there were way too many miscommunciation plays on both ends of the floor. The players need to be on the same page.

KOBE. #VINO. BRYANT.


#16 Grandpa Herman

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 01:45 PM

Our defense can improve. New coach, new system, and new players. Half of our defensive problems can be fixed with them actually trying and play with effort and energy instead of just going through the motions. Another issue I saw was that there were way too many miscommunciation plays on both ends of the floor. The players need to be on the same page.

Those things come with time, it's expected when you put a new group together. I wouldn't consider it a major concern.
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#17 Jackson

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 02:32 PM

You have to realize that Billups is the one that killed us. We actually did a good job defending the pick and roll against very good players who can run that play efficiently.

Billups and his 3 pointers did us in.

#18 NYCLakerfan

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 02:34 PM

Billups always owns the Lakers

#19 Windu

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Posted December 20, 2011 - 02:59 PM

point guards always own the Lakers


fixed

Pau Gasol is GONE


#20 Junayd

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Posted December 21, 2011 - 02:27 AM

Doesn't matter what offense we run, as long as we execute. Just take good, efficient shots, and we'll be fine - however, I don't know why the offense had Ron shooting standstill 3s (what he's been doing for the past 2 years) when it obviously doesn't work. He needs the ball from the free throw line and down. He shouldn't be shooting 3 pointers more than twice a game.


The defense was just disgusting. The rotations had me on the verge of spewing vomit all over my screen. That bad.



Kobe IS going to score 30 PPG, no matter what. Dude is going to be on a rampage this year. But I think he will actually get 6-7 assists per game now

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