57 replies to this topic

[Aonex]

LA Times is reporting that the IOC is finally investigating several Chinese gymnasts.

http://www.latimes.c...0,5760119.story

[lakerfool]

^ That's not true because they weren't. If you actually saw the competition sir, you would've noticed how both China & the US messed up and succeeded in the same ways several similar times, and the score would usually go higher to China. There was also some biasness there somewhere unfortunately. Even the announcers spoke of this, so even if you lie and tell me you DID actually watch the whole thing, well, then it doesn't matter cuz after all you're just lying. There's no way in heII you saw that whole thing and can possible feel the way you do. Just ridiculous and a bit hilarious really.

I watched the whole thing.

Tim Dagget praised Chinese girls the whole time. He only complained about judging once. I don't care for what former coach of the team who is biased says. Tim Dagget, LA gold medalist, said that the Chinese gymnasts are legit, and even he says that age is a non-factor. The only complaint of his was then the girl got a bronze even after a fall, otherwise he hasn't complained about anything else.

It's okay that you're not used to seeing Asian people win. Asians in US movies are always buffoons and you're used to them stumbling over themselves and being weak at athletics and only book nerds.

Nobody complained when it was obvious in the 90's-00's that US track athletes were juicing, which is real cheating. Nobody complained of biased judging towards a home team until it happened in China. Get used to it, Asia has arrived, and you're going to have to change your view of Asian and CHinese people

[Aonex]

I think you might be missing the point here LF. The eligibility of these athletes have been in question even before the games began, so I don't see how this is a case of sour grapes by the U.S. The more important argument that you seem to be avoiding is that violating the eligibility rule creates an unfair advantage in terms of team composition. Liukin herself, who won the all around gold was only eligible now at 18, and couldn't compete in Athens 4 years ago because she was underage. With her talent, she could have easily won more gold medals back then. And this stretches far beyond the U.S., countries like Romania and Russia who have strong gymnastics programs could easily have brought their own 13 and 14 year old gymnasts and likely changed the outcome of the competition. It's one thing to say that the age eligibility rule doesn't make sense, and should be discarded... but once the rules of the game are set (and agreed to) you have to play by them. Otherwise, don't complain or get all defensive if you're caught cheating.

BTW, I'm all for Asians winning Olympic medals... but doing it with ineligible athletes isn't something I'd be proud of.

[impossbile_zer0]

on nbc they found documents that said one of them was born in 1994

[Vudoo]

Lakerfool, rules are rules. If you falsify ages, it's cheating, no matter your nationality. I'm [expletive]ing Asian too and I love seeing Asians win medals, but does that mean I think it's right to cheat? No. I mean, why do you think those rules are there in the first place if being younger had no extra advantage to gymnastics. The age limit rule was set in place by the FIG (international Gymnastics federation) whom I would assume knows more about Gymnastics than you.

Everyone else plays by the rules, why should China be the exception.

EDIT:

Oh, and did I mention that China has a history of falsifying ages. Yang Yun, a double-gold medalist in the Sydney olympics ADMITTED to being 14 when she competed.

Edited by Vudoo, August 22, 2008 - 10:17 AM.

[L.A.K.E.R]

I watched the whole thing.

Tim Dagget praised Chinese girls the whole time. He only complained about judging once. I don't care for what former coach of the team who is biased says. Tim Dagget, LA gold medalist, said that the Chinese gymnasts are legit, and even he says that age is a non-factor. The only complaint of his was then the girl got a bronze even after a fall, otherwise he hasn't complained about anything else.

It's okay that you're not used to seeing Asian people win. Asians in US movies are always buffoons and you're used to them stumbling over themselves and being weak at athletics and only book nerds.

Nobody complained when it was obvious in the 90's-00's that US track athletes were juicing, which is real cheating. Nobody complained of biased judging towards a home team until it happened in China. Get used to it, Asia has arrived, and you're going to have to change your view of Asian and CHinese people

No one here is putting down Asians or stating that their "bufoons or nerds". You're assuming too much of the people arguing with you. "Change you view of Asian and Chinese people"? You clearly don't understand the point of the post. I don't think any of us have any problems with Asian athletes, but we do have problems with people breaking the rules. The team that happened to break the rules were members of the Chinese Women's Gymnastics Team.

The argument in this matter is that some of the Chinese athletes are underage, meaning that they should not have been allowed to participate in Women's Gymnastics at the Beijing Olympics. The minimum age is 16 by the end of the Olympic year for gymnasts, if the girls are underage, then they definitely are expected to forfeit their medals.

Tim Dagget has praised the Chinese on multiple occasions, but his displeasure at the scoring on many of events was evident. More often that not, he felt that the Chinese were scored a tad higher than they should have been, while the Americans were scored a tad lower than they deserved. In a game determined by tenths and hundredths of a point, it makes all the difference.

[L.A.K.E.R]

I'm sure these girls have dietitians, massage therapists, and father's who drive luxury German cars. You're making tons of sense too, lmao.

These kids only hope out of family is to live in these Gymnastic camps. I'm going to root for poor kids even if underaged over privileged rich kids anyday of the week.

There's no problem with rooting for kids who are underprivileged, but yo don't seem to understand that some members of the team are underage, meaning that they aren't allowed to partiticipate in the Olympics. Simple as that.

[nameant]

I'm sure these girls have dietitians, massage therapists, and father's who drive luxury German cars. You're making tons of sense too, lmao.

These kids only hope out of family is to live in these Gymnastic camps. I'm going to root for poor kids even if underaged over privileged rich kids anyday of the week.

The cars their fathers drive have absolutely nothing to do with their performance or the sport in general. Hey, at least they get to hang out with their fathers (or their family in general) instead of being forced into these "camps". Yeah I'm sure these girls are thrilled to be taken away from their families. That's why they shared a story of one of the girls calling their mother to ask to come home but was denied. I know if I was a toddler the first thing I'd wanna do is be taken away from my family and forced to live with strangers and be worked day in and day out.

Edited by nameant, August 22, 2008 - 03:44 PM.

[lakerfool]

The cars their fathers drive have absolutely nothing to do with their performance or the sport in general. Hey, at least they get to hang out with their fathers (or their family in general) instead of being forced into these "camps". Yeah I'm sure these girls are thrilled to be taken away from their families. That's why they shared a story of one of the girls calling their mother to ask to come home but was denied. I know if I was a toddler the first thing I'd wanna do is be taken away from my family and forced to live with strangers and be worked day in and day out.

Their alternative to these camps is a life of extreme poverty, working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week at a textile factory. It's clear you are unaware of the conditions these children would grow up in otherwise. The fact that they are so poor makes their performance more impressive.

[lakerfool]

No one here is putting down Asians or stating that their "bufoons or nerds". You're assuming too much of the people arguing with you. "Change you view of Asian and Chinese people"? You clearly don't understand the point of the post. I don't think any of us have any problems with Asian athletes, but we do have problems with people breaking the rules. The team that happened to break the rules were members of the Chinese Women's Gymnastics Team.

The argument in this matter is that some of the Chinese athletes are underage, meaning that they should not have been allowed to participate in Women's Gymnastics at the Beijing Olympics. The minimum age is 16 by the end of the Olympic year for gymnasts, if the girls are underage, then they definitely are expected to forfeit their medals.

Tim Dagget has praised the Chinese on multiple occasions, but his displeasure at the scoring on many of events was evident. More often that not, he felt that the Chinese were scored a tad higher than they should have been, while the Americans were scored a tad lower than they deserved. In a game determined by tenths and hundredths of a point, it makes all the difference.

And yet, their age does not enhance their performance at all, and is basically a disqualification based on a technicality. Lets say you get your way and they don't get their medals. It doesn't change the fact that these girls OWNED the US womens team. So regardless of medals, Chinese middle school girls is the best team.

[lakerfool]

Lakerfool, rules are rules. If you falsify ages, it's cheating, no matter your nationality. I'm [expletive]ing Asian too and I love seeing Asians win medals, but does that mean I think it's right to cheat? No. I mean, why do you think those rules are there in the first place if being younger had no extra advantage to gymnastics. The age limit rule was set in place by the FIG (international Gymnastics federation) whom I would assume knows more about Gymnastics than you.

Everyone else plays by the rules, why should China be the exception.

EDIT:

Oh, and did I mention that China has a history of falsifying ages. Yang Yun, a double-gold medalist in the Sydney olympics ADMITTED to being 14 when she competed.

Good for Yang Yun. She was the best gymnast regardless of age at the time. This isn't steroids where her performance is being enhanced, but rather going into a competition where she should be crushed. The age limit rule is set in place to distinguish children from adults. Clearly, inferior children are destroying adults in these competitions.

[netlord]

Their alternative to these camps is a life of extreme poverty, working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week at a textile factory. It's clear you are unaware of the conditions these children would grow up in otherwise. The fact that they are so poor makes their performance more impressive.

The fact that they are poor makes them work even harder, don't you know that?

Edited by netlord, August 23, 2008 - 03:01 AM.

[L.A.K.E.R]

And yet, their age does not enhance their performance at all, and is basically a disqualification based on a technicality. Lets say you get your way and they don't get their medals. It doesn't change the fact that these girls OWNED the US womens team. So regardless of medals, Chinese middle school girls is the best team.

Age does play a major role in these kind of competitions. Being younger means that you have more flexibility (in the case of Women's gymnastics), thus giving you an added advantage. If the age rule was not in effect, then Nastia Liuken could have competed in the 2004 Olympics at the age of 14 and US could have potentially vied for a gold medal. She was good enough to make the Olympic team, but the age rule kept her from joining the team. There are many gymnasts in the world below the age requirement that could've made it onto their countries Olympics team and competed. They were not able to come because they were below 16 years of age. Why should China be the exception?

[L.A.K.E.R]

And yet, their age does not enhance their performance at all, and is basically a disqualification based on a technicality. Lets say you get your way and they don't get their medals. It doesn't change the fact that these girls OWNED the US womens team. So regardless of medals, Chinese middle school girls is the best team.

They are UNDERAGE. They are not allowed to compete in the Olympics for 16 year olds and above. This isn't a disqualification on a mere technicality, they are breaking the rules of competition. If you break the rules, you are disqualified. It's that simple.

[A_V_R]

The age limit rule is set in place to distinguish children from adults. Clearly, inferior children are destroying adults in these competitions.

lol

no.

It is there for a number of reasons including stress, long term effects on physical health etc. but its unfair because of one. 16 is also the watermark for puberty. Younger gymnasts have more hip flexibility because their hips are not fully developed yet. Its literally an unfair playing field for the older less flexible gymnasts whose bodies have literally changed. It is after all, a contest largely based of flexibility.