lalmia.jpg

A sweep of the Heat give the Lakers their first 10 game winning streak in quite some time. In fact, I think the way the Lakers are playing right now as a team is one of the best I have ever seen. The Lakers are easily 10 deep when healthy and showed it tonight. The Lakers cruised to a 106-88 victory over the heat tonight.

As a team, they grabbed 55 total rebounds, mostly because Miami was held to only 38% FG shooting. The Lakers had four different players get double figure rebounds tonight, led by Ronny with 12. The Lakers shot 48% from the field, 40% from three, and 82% from the stripe. The best part was the Lakers defense. They had 8 steals, 12 blocks, and held Wade to only 6-17 shooting. As a team the Lakers had 28 assists and were moving the ball well. It seemed as if every Laker was touching the ball tonight.

Now, the bests of the night…

Top 3 Laker performers:

1) Kobe Bryant filled up the stat sheet tonight. 21 points on 50% shooting. He also had 8 assists, 4 steals, and 2 blocks. Not to mention he held Wade to 18 points on 17 shots.

2) Farmar was shooting lights out again. 9-14 FGs, and 4-8 threes. He had 24 points, 4 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, and even a block!

3) Pau played great again, but Lamar quietly had 13 points, 11 boards, 6 assists, a steal, and a block. Great game!

Lakers Smush of the Day (Note: STD denotes the Laker that played the poorest): Fisher continued his shooting slump with a 2-11 night. Snap out of it Fish!

Play of the game: Kobe behind the back to Luke, around the back to Lamar to finish the play with the slam.

What to look for next game: I think the Lakers will win, but not sure by how much. Portland is 21-8 at home. But let’s make it 11 in a row! Game is Friday @ 7:30 PM (KCAL).

  • bc18

    in DCLAKER’s words……GOLAKERS.COM IN FULL EFFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.myspace.com/aznboiryo Kenny

    that was no challenge :[ wasnt even tat exciting except for the kobe to walton to lamar play

  • http://thelakersnation.com kb24 4life

    wow, this is the best lakers team i have seen in a while, i think even better than the kobe.shaq days, is better kobe gasol fisher odom bynum , etc … #1

  • http://myspace.com/nugge7 The Nugget

    Somebody has to post that behind the pass by Kobe to Lamar then to Luke for the dunk!!

    WOW.

  • kobeftw

    [Comment ID #27974 Will Be Quoted Here]

    It should be on youtube soon…

  • JB714

    great game
    here we come finals

    ps does anybody know how to send messages on da shoutbox

  • lakerz

    [Comment ID #27974 Will Be Quoted Here]

    serial
    i was seeing a video of MJ do the same type of pass kobe did.but the play wasent given enough credit.(#6 in BSPN top 10 plays)

  • LakersOnFire

    at this pace, im wondering if we’ll make it to 60.

  • LytesOut

    “Play of the game: Kobe behind the back to Luke, around the back to Lamar to finish the play with the slam.”

    …and one

  • http://myspace.com/nugge7 The Nugget

    Video added. Enjoy. :D

  • lakerz

    anyone see the chick who flashed her breast to the crowd in the screen?

  • TA

    i want a youtube of the breast!!

    i mean we are hollywood!! and we are on top of the world!!!

    show us some bare titties!!!!

  • LytesOut

    actually…it wasn’t an and one…my mistake

  • Michael_23

    Dwayne Wade looks like he’s given up on his team …

  • Nabil

    AMAZING play!!! I was listening on the radio and they said it could be the highlight play of the year. Thanks for posting!

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #27985 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Agreed, D Wade does look like he has given up.

    A few years ago, when Miami won their title, people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe. Well now Wade has his opportunity to prove it how good he really is now that he’s by himself (no Shaq). So far Wade hasn’t done much.

    Kobe on the other hand is now truly establishing himself as a player that can be a true TEAM leader and lead his team to the title.

  • kb24

    It really makes me happy. It’s like when the Lakers win, it’s the best part of the day

  • kobeftw

    [Comment ID #27975 Will Be Quoted Here]

  • as1084

    wow…that play is one of the greatest plays i have ever seen! wow!!

  • lalakeshow

    Lakers are 41 and 17, they need to go 19 and 5 to hit 60 wins, go Lakers!!!

  • 187 ON BOSTON

    that play is the shyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyytttttttttttttt

  • Phant0M

    Farmar was #1 IMO.

  • Phant0M

    Nice P . G. btw.

  • pjt

    So we should beat the Mav’s, too…

  • True Lakers Fan

    Great game question how many TO? did we have and Farmar played fantastic and i love that pass that is like the Showtime era :)

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #27987 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Wade is not healthy as noted by the commentators last night. Playing at about 75%. Also, basically losing your entire championship team doesn’t help either.

  • ZenMaster23

    The next two games will really be a barometer of how good the Lakers are playing. The last couple of games have been against seriously weak teams, so I expected those to be blowouts.

    Should be a good game tonight up in Portland and then a tough battle against Dallas on Sunday. After seeing Dallas barely lose to San Antonio last night, it will be interesting to see how the Lakers match up with them.

    I’m expecting even better play from the Lakers over the next two games since they usually get UP for the bigger contests.

  • MIKE SANDERS

    Definitely a big game this Sunday. We can truly measure just how far we’ve come when we play against some real competition like Dallas. IMO they should have beaten The Spurs last night but little Avery took Jason Kidd out of the game on the last play. He sat a hall of famer on the bench in the most crucial time in the game? How long before Kidd gets Avery fired?

  • T-Dub

    Luke Walton has to be one of the dumbest players in the league. Everyone is always saying how smart he is, but he makes the most bonehead plays on the team. He’s always throwing the ball away, getting his shot swatted by better, more athletic players, making turnovers. Everyone else is flourishing and improving, but he seems to get worse. Bynum, Ariza, Vlad, please come back so he can find his way to the end of the bench! It makes me want to puke watching him on the court!

  • http://twoo2.skyblog.com 2spotz

    [Comment ID #28000 Will Be Quoted Here]
    yeh i know they said wade was about 75% but i dont know why.
    and kobe is pretty banged up too, all season
    he IS about 75% and still playng like he is 150%

  • gugy

    I agreed,
    Avery will be fired very soon.

    Showtime is back!

    GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Michael_23

    Yes, Wade is probably 75% healthy.

    But he looks 25% motivated.

    I think things will look up next year for the Heat they could have the #1, 2, or 3 pick in the draft next season. They came keep that draft pick or trade for a veteran player. (Unless they traded that pick away that I don’t know about …)

  • mp or mplakers

    other than the showtime display of behind the back to another behind the back into a dunk and a foul these were the other notables of the game.

    the real highlight of the game for me.

    1) WADE GOT CROSSED OVER BY SASHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaa. i tivoed the game and i kept watching the replay over and over. sasha near half court, leads wade to the right, crosses him back to the left, and he’s……………..gone, all the way to the paint for an easy dish to farmar. you know that commercial with wade with the bad wade and the good wade on his shoulders…one telling him to dunk and the other telling him to pull up for a jump shot.after sasha punked him, i bet wade’s mini conscious were saying ,”dddaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmnnnnnnnn!!!! where you at? where you at wade?”
    2) wade holding kobe’s jersey and then shoving kobe away-and wade is the one on offense-who gets the foul call? kobe—-what is that?
    3) kobe comes right back— on wade’s three point jump shot kobe is a little late reacting so he sticks his hand in wade’s face and gives wade a “love slap” on the mug…..lol…funny as hell. you got pimped slapped by kobe wade you got pimped slapped.
    4)ronny pulling a “dennis rodman” and gobbling up every rebound like it was a thanksgiving dinner and can this guy slam it or what? bring down the thunder ronny, i’m going to start calling you ZEUS. bring down the thunder.

    side note- gasol looks a little uninspired recently and hesitant…personally i think he’s a little out of phase because the offseason is coming up and there is a whole heap of expectations on this team. he’s definitely not used to it and he does look a little miserable. or maybe he’s just tired of playing game after game, especially road games. hopefully, we see the a full tank of GASOLINA on sunday against dallas. you know they want to kick our tails in and show off their new toy—j-kidd.

    and what’s up with farmar and sasha’s yelling match on the bench? i like to think it was a competetive thing since they are the two players who come right off the bench when we need some offensive energy. those two definitely had words for each other during a timeout, and sasha scooted all the way to the other side of the bench so he didn’t have to hear farmar’s mouth. if it helps them to produce like they’ve been doing i say, fight, fight, fight!

    portland, then BRING ON THE SALLAD MAVERICKS!!! GOOOOO LAAAKKKEERRSS!

  • ab4sure

    No one ever played at 150%. It’s impossible. Unless someone clones themselves and that clone produces at a 50% rate. LOL

    Farmar and Sasha have fought for along time. Usually because Sasha doesn’t pass or is not at the right spot on the floor. Farmar is a hard nose player who plays the right way and knows how to run an offense. Sasha is a bit flaky at times. After all he is Sasha

  • Nabil

    Wade’s style of barreling into the defense and getting bailed out by NBA refs may have robbed Dallas of a ship (fine by me), but its also LARGELY to blame for our recent failures in international play. Other players do it to, but he’s the prime example. The international refs ain’t bailing you out like that D-WADE! Good thing this year its Kobe to the rescue. Yo Dwayne, this summer just lob it up to Lebron/Howard or hand it to Kobe and get out of the way!

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28000 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Please, don’t make any excuses for Wade. If he’s that injured then he shouldn’t be on the court.

    Also, if you’re going to make injuries as part of his excuse, then I’ll bring up Kobe’s torn tendon in his shooting hand where other team doctors at the NBA all star game said nobody should be playing with that hand.

    You also bring up the fact that “basically losing your entire championship team doesn’t help either.” You know what, Kobe had the same situation, when the Lakers traded Shaq, Rick Fox and did not resign Horry or Fisher, etc, Kobe basically lost his entire team too (much of that is Kobe’s fault, as you and I both know). As much as I disliked what Kobe said about Bynum and the rest of the guys in the offseason (very unprofessional), he still played his a** off every night for the past 4 years. Wade isn’t doing that (ooh I forgot, he’s injured).

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28010 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Notice how Sasha crossed over on an injured and unmotivated Dwayne Wade. After all he is Sasha.

  • xxv112002

    Guys check this out:

    Mailman A Bull?
    After losing twice in the NBA Finals to the Chicago Bulls, it now appears former Jazzman Karl Malone could become a temporary Bull — a Red Bull, that is.

    The Red Bull team of the Philippine Basketball Association is said to be actually negotiating to bring the “Mailman” in as its allowed import player for the PBA Fiesta Cup tournament that begins March 30, according to the Manila Bulletin. — Deseret Morning News

    # This move is apparently not a publicity stunt because Tony Chua, Red Bull’s representative said yesterday that negotiations are currently underway to lure Malone who retired as one of the NBA’s 50 Greatest Players.

    According to Chua, they’re waiting for Malone, whose wife is a Filipina, to decide until today. — Manila Bulletin

    Here’s the website:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2ffeatures%2frumors

  • DCLAKER

    This was probably the ‘laziest’ I’ve seen them all year but if this win is LAZY,I feel sorry for the team when they’re at their most energetic and that won’t be until “LAKEZILLA” MAKES THEIR DEBUT IN LATE MARCH OR APRIL(When AB comes back)and THEN WHEN ONCE ARIZA’S BACK…….CURTAINS!

  • as1084

    i cant believe the play wasnt even sportscenter’s top play! it was only number 6! wtf! haha

  • DCLAKER

    WHAT THE F!@# !!! NO.#6? What the HELL is sportscenter thinking? Yet another LAKER CONSPIRACY,LAKERNATION! You’ve got to be kidding me,NO.#6? I’m sorry for the ranting but TO US HERE,THAT WAS PLAY OF THE YEAR,PERIOD!!!

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #28014 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I never mentioned kobe at all. All I was saying is Wade is playing injured basically and he lost his entire team. If you want to go back and compare what kobe had after the trade compared to what Wade has now i don’t think you could make a case that Miami has the better team. Also, there is a case to be made that kobe is even a better player since the pinky injury. He doesn’t seem to try to do too much since it. PJ said this himself during an interview. As far as an excuse for Wade yes i guess i am giving him an excuse, but one thing for sure is you don’t see Wade giving that same excuse. Wade not playing his ass off?? Well is production is still pretty high even though he is not as efficient as prior yrs(reasons mentioned above) but to say he is not busting his ass out there is very subjective. Pat Riley expects that and Wade as shown that. He has the heart of a champion and he as shown that to. (btw kobe only fans kobe has the heart of a champion too)

  • mplakers

    man, d-wade can suck on d’s nuts

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28046 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Well I think it’s been established that I’m no “kobe-only fan” (remember I f’n hate Kobe Bryant but I support his play because he’s on the Lakers), but we will definitely see how much heart of a champion Wade really has now that he doesn’t have Shaq. Shaq made the game so much easier for Kobe and Wade. Wade is now in the same exact position Kobe was 4 years ago. We are going to see exactly what Wade is really made of now that he has to be the sole leader of a team, which is what Riley is banking on him to be. It took a couple of years for Kobe but now he is demonstrating he can lead a team and make the players better (finally!!).

    Last night, I didn’t see Wade playing his a** off. You’re not playing your a** off when you let Sasha cross dribble drive on you and create a play. Sasha is not a penetrating type of player, he’s a spot up shooter, and Wade is WAY more athletic than Sasha is. Also, you figure Wade would play even harder when he’s up against any superstar such as Kobe. Unfortunately for Miami, I didn’t see that aggressiveness from him the last 2 games against the Lakers.

    With regards to your comments “If you want to go back and compare what kobe had after the trade compared to what Wade has now i don’t think you could make a case that Miami has the better team.”…I’m going to quote the TNT broadcasters last night, just like you did regarding Wade and his “injury”. You put Kobe Bryant on that team, and that Miami team makes the playoffs.

  • ab4sure

    Lakerfirst, Never thought of you as a kobeonly fan… that was addressed to others. Wade is in a similiar position as kobe, not the exact position. There is a difference is the level of personnel when u compare them. The lakers had both butler and Odom that yr.
    Shaq definitely made the game easier but the load he carried was greater in LA than in Miami when he was on the decline.

    Hard to measure heart when you can’t measure pain… how bad is Wade?? idk… but given the fact that he has shown his skill and courage with the weight of his team on him on the greatest stage i give him the benefit of the doubt same i would for Kobe esp. as far as effort.

    btw.. reggie miller said that not both broadcasters and right after that they both said Wade is about 65-75%… so if your going to quote both broadcasters quote them fully… and balance those statements…

  • ab4sure

    Also Sasha made a nice move against Wade and if you were watching and the anouncers mentioned it that Wade reached instead of being in a correct defensive position. So Wade made a mistake on the play, not that he was not playing his a.ss off. Big Difference. Effort is not a question in that play. BTW, did you want Miami to win the ship that yr against Dallas???

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #28059 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Sorry to disappoint you but Wade is a married man and he likes women.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28091 Will Be Quoted Here]

    D. Wade: 0 points, 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in the first half. He wasn’t even penetrating to get to the free throw line. From the looks of it, the first half he wasn’t playing anything.

    You can call Wade’s play on Sasha a “mistake” if you want, but I call it laziness. In my opinion effort was big time in play (not to mention the lack of effort in the first half).

    Dallas and Miami – I could’ve cared less. Although, if I had to make a choice, I would say I preferred Dallas because I didn’t want Shaq to win another ring (as a matter of fact, I still don’t).

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28086 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Kobe and Wade are in the EXACT position (although Wade had Shaq at the beginning of the year). After being on teams that won rings, they are in the same position because Wade, like Kobe, has role players on his team that he needs to make better and make plays for (this is what leaders of the team are supposed to do).

    If you’re going to say Kobe had Caron and LO in that first year, then I’m going to say that Wade had Shaq at the beginning of this year, and you know Shaq, even when he plays lik crap makes a difference because of his shear size. Now Wade has Shawn Marion, a proven All-Star (LO has never been an all-star and Caron, when he was on the Lakers, was not yet an All-Star).

    I’m forgetting exactly which broadcaster said what, but the bottom line is the broadcasters kept making “injury” excuses for Wade, similar to what you have said, and I’m merely pointing out that the broadcasters also said that if you put Kobe on Miami, then Miami makes the playoffs (after all it is the East where I think the 6th, 7th and 8th seeds are all under .500). But like I said, if you’re going continue to ride the Wade not being fully healthy train, then you might as well also acknowledge the Kobe not being fully healthy (last time I checked, Kobe needs surgery, I don’t think Wade does).

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28086 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Kobe and Wade are in the EXACT position (although Wade had Shaq at the beginning of the year). After being on teams that won rings, they are in the same position because Wade, like Kobe, has role players on his team that he needs to make better and make plays for (this is what leaders of the team are supposed to do).

    If you’re going to say Kobe had Caron and LO in that first year, then I’m going to say that Wade had Shaq at the beginning of this year, and you know Shaq, even when he plays lik crap makes a difference because of his shear size. Now Wade has Shawn Marion, a proven All-Star (LO has never been an all-star and Caron, when he was on the Lakers, was not yet an All-Star).

    I’m forgetting exactly which broadcaster said what, but the bottom line is the broadcasters kept making “injury” excuses for Wade, similar to what you have said, and I’m merely pointing out that the broadcasters also said that if you put Kobe on Miami, then Miami makes the playoffs (after all it is the East where I think the 6th, 7th and 8th seeds are all under .500). But like I said, if you’re going continue to ride the Wade not being fully healthy train, then you might as well also acknowledge the Kobe not being fully healthy (last time I checked, Kobe needs surgery, I don’t think Wade does).

  • ab4sure

    Exact position no. We are comparing Wade team this yr. to Kobe’s team the first yr. without Shaq. Kobe had Butler who was almost the level of an all star esp. when he gets more opportunities and LO and no way does that compare with Wade’s current team… Shaq this yr… do u think he gave the effort this yr??? on miami??? The guy wanted to leave… Miami gave away alot… Mourning, Shaq, Posey, payton, Kapono, Walker, etc…. this Miami team is an expansion team. Sure you just got Marion, but how well will he do without a true pointguard like Nash feeding him the ball…Wade is more of a 2 guard who can play point.

    You have your fact wrong. First of all ONE BROADCASTER SAID IT.. Reggie Miller, color commentator known to hype up things and a big kobe supporter(nothing wrong with that just realize where he is coming from). He said Miami would win more games with Kobe not they would make the PO’s.. I happen to agree if Miami had kobe they would win more games with him but u have to consider all factors which i have already mentioned.

    BTW Kobe needs Surgery…But kobe is not playing in pain..Kobe thanks Garry Vitti for that becuase the new tape job he does helps him to not experience pain. In fact he is shooting at a better percentage lately… Thank God he is limited… that helps him be much more wise in the shots he takes.

    You weren’t listening to the commentators too closely on the Sasha play. In fact, they slowed the play down in Slo MO and said Wade reached which allowed Sasha to go by him. Bad Play by Wade…not laziness. Something tells me you have a chip on your shoulder against the guy who has proved himself in the Finals and has come thru. Do you remember Shaq’s first year when he played in pain against the Detroit series?? Many people today believe they lost that series because of Wade’s injury.

  • ab4sure

    *WHEN WADE PLAYED IN PAIN

  • Phant0M

    R u saying Wade>>>Kobe or Kobe>>Wade.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28166 Will Be Quoted Here]

    If you want compare Kobe’s first year team with that of Wade’s team now, let’s do so. Here is the Lakers roster right after the Shaq Trade:

    Sasha: I think it was his first year, so he was ineffective
    Chucky Atkins: Good shooter but couldn’t play defense to save his life.
    Tierre Brown: WHERE IS HE NOW!!!
    Kobe: We all know what Kobe can do
    Tony Bobbitt: They acquired him after trading Kareem Rush for draft picks
    Kareem Rush: Traded for draft picks
    Luke Walton: This year he wasn’t much of a contributor
    Caron Butler: Played good but was not yet an all-star
    Devean George: You and I both know D. George is terrible
    Jumaine Jones: I think he plays in Europe now (need i say more)
    LO: Decent player
    Brian Cook: Do I need to say anything?
    Slava Medvendenko: He’s worse than Cook (at least Cook could shoot)
    Brian Grant: By this time his knees were gone and was pretty much useless
    Chris Mihm: He actually had a decent year this year.
    Vlade Divac: He maybe played 10% of that season because of his bad back.

    Let’s look at Wade’s team:

    Shawn Marion: All-Star
    Wade: Ring and All-Star
    Jason Williams: Wasn’t he their starting point guard when they won a ring?
    Ricky Davis: Meh
    Mark Blount: This guy is not a bad player. He actually played pretty well against the Lakers
    Udonis Haslem: Wasn’t he their starting Power Forward their championship year.
    Marcus Banks: This guy is a pretty good point guard. Even Mitch Kupchak tried to acquire Banks from Boston in the Gary Payton trade until Payton botched it and didn’t show up for the physical, and I KNOW you hold Mitch in high regard like I do.
    Alzono: Too bad he got injured
    Smush: Piece of crap
    Doreel Wright: He’s a decent player (better than Jumaine Jones, Tony Bobbitt, Slava, and Brian Cook – you know the players who the Lakers had
    Daequan Cook: Rookie
    Earl Barron: Meh
    Chris Quinn: who?
    Alexander Johnson: see above
    Luke jackson: never had it
    Joel Anthony: see chris quinn
    Anfernee Hardaway: Should’ve stayed retired

    When you compare the squads, their pretty much even. As of a matter of fact, Wade has a few more experience players than Kobe had. Wade still has J. Williams and Haslem, you know the guys who started on that championship team.

    Not to mention the Heat have the great Pat Riley. You can’t tell me Riley is not a better coach than Rudy T. (who didn’t even finish that year)???

    NO, YOU HAVE YOU’RE HAVE YOUR FACT WRONG. It was Reggie Miller who specifically said if switch Kobe and Wade, and Kobe is playing in Miami, he said “the heat would make the playoffs.” I know TNT broadcasters are terrible, but you need to pay more attention to them if you’re going to quote them. And to say that Reggie is “big Kobe supporter” and he’s going to hype him up – that’s a lame argument

    Something tells you like to think you’re right when you’re not (as per my point with the commentators during the game on Thursday). I have no chip on my shoulder regarding Wade, but for you to make excuses for the guy who has clearly given up on him Miami team isn’t right… and yes, I do remember that first year when Wade played injured against Detroit, and even if he wasn’t injured Detroit’s experienced still would’ve beat Miami. I mean Kobe may have talked to sh*t about his team in the offseason (which I completely disagreed him doing so), but at least Kobe comes to play every single night. I have yet to see that in Wade (oh wait but he’s injured – i forgot).

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28190 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I’ll even go one further, I’ll give the 2004/2005 Laker roster a healthy Vlade Divac and the give the Miami Heat a healthy Alonzo Mourning. That alone makes Miami better at the center position. Also, in addition to saying that if you put Kobe on this current Miami squade they would win more games “and make the playoffs”, the TNT broadcasters also said, if Zo was healthy, the Heat would also win more games.

  • ab4sure

    Your argument is really slanted… calling LO just decent and diminishing Butler contribution is weak. Plus saying Williams a starter on a ship team??? what is williams now.. today.. not yesterday… he is just an expiring contract… putting value on Marion when he just joined??? how good is he going to be without a true point guard??? i already made that point.

    so kobe, LO, and butler you would think would have done better than 34 wins… don’t you think??? Did that team quit??? i think the team did quit after following them that yr.

    So like a said Wade has an expansion team now. Marion how will he fit??? other than that they have a decent pf and young players all around and a dysfunctional team guy in davis and a blount… both should be bench players and they start. Riley is packing it in. This is his last yr much like it is Rudy T’s last yr with the lakers.

    Actually Reggie said Zo would add 15 games to this team if he were there. That I am positive. So how do you add up these in consistencies in his statement and the logic of his thinking. He is a color commentator and they get paid more for being controversial.

    Dont’ forget Wade had surgery this past summer and missed several games at the beginning of the season. Things aren’t cut and dry and making judgements on players esp. on a crossover was quite surprising coming from u becuase i usually agree with many of your points.

    After following Wade the past 3 seasons i have always noticed how he lays is body on the line and gives 100%. Which is one of the reasons I admire him. Both on offense and defense.

    I think Wade has earned the benefit of the doubt. I never saw him quit on his team on or off the court nor as he exhibited being selfish either.

    So instead of listening to Reggie or Me…Listen to his coach. Pat Riley who I think knows Wade the best and his situation.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-0229heat.wade,0,6911517.story
    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2008/03/01/z13b_heatgamer_0301.html

  • ab4sure

    So since you take Reggie word and he said they would be 15 games better with a healthy Zo… the heat would have a record of 26-30… good enough for 7th place and the PO… Do you really want to take Reggie’s word for it???

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28193 Will Be Quoted Here]

    That year in 04/05 LO WAS just a decent player. He didn’t do anything spectacular. In the 2004/2005 season, LO averaged 15.2 ppg, which was a drop from the 17 ppg that he averaged in Miami the previous year. Yes, I call that decent. If you want to call that all-star like then go right ahead, I’m sure no one will agree with you.

    I never diminished Butler’s contribution as “weak” (now you’re putting words in my mouth like you so often to other users on this site). However, you’re implying Butler’s contribution while in L.A. was all-star level, when he only averaged 15 ppg 6 rpg, which was pretty much what he averaged in his rookie year in Miami. Caron didn’t start averaging huge numbers until he got to Washington where he is now averaging 19 ppg and 7 rpg.

    Furthermore, you’re denying the fact that Williams was a starter on the Miami championship team when it is a FACT! As to say “what is williams now.. today.. not yesterday”, remember he and the Miami Heat are just 2 years removed from a championship team. It’s not like he’s five or six years removed from that championship team.

    Yes, I’ll put value on Marion because he has already made a difference on that Miami team. When the Lakers first played Miami, you saw the difference that Marion makes. Marion does have value. I’ll go one further, remember Phil Jackson suggested to the Lakers FO to trade Kobe Bryant for Shawn Marion, back in the days when Kobe was really being a pain in the a**. To say Shawn Marion does not or has not yet brought value to the Miami is ridiculous.

    I don’t think the Laker 2004/2005 team quit at all. I just don’t think they were a good squad, which is they they had the record that they did. Don’t forget Rudy T. quit being the Lakers coach after 41 games (half a season) so they were left with assistant coach Frank Hamblen, who isn’t really known for having the experience of a head coach, for the second half of the season. When a team loses their head coach in the middle of the season, they are probably aren’t going to win a lot of games.

    You can continue to make excuses for the Miami Heat and loverboy Dwayne Wade all you want. My original comment was, with Wade in the exact same position that Kobe was after the Shaq trade, we’ll see how good Wade really is in the next 3 to 4 years and by that I don’t mean just skill wise (we know he’s a good player skill wise), I’m talking the whole ball of wax, which includes being the LEADER of a team and demonstrating LEADERSHIP, which I myself think he has not done, oh but I forget, he’s injured. Last time I checked, Kobe is also injured but yet he still somehow manages to get his average points per game on a consistent basis and be a leader on his team.

    It amazes me that you knock the Miami team, but yet you fail to acknowledge the crap players that the Lakers had in 2004/05, with Slava, Bobbitt, Tierre Brown, Brian Cook, Jumaine Jones, Vlade Divac (who should’ve retired going into that year) – that’s half the squad!! I’d rather have had Ricky Davis (even though he is dysfunctional) and Mark Blount, than any of those guys.

    With regards to my comment of having Sasha having beat Wade on a cross over dribble was JUST ONE example of how Wade is demonstrating his laziness or lack of intensity. My second example was the fact that he 0 points, 3 turnover and 3 fouls in the first half alone (I don’t even think he any assists in that first half). He clearly came alive in the second half so obviously Wade can play but for some reason he chooses not to (look at tonight he had 33 points). If he’s going to be the leader of a team, he has to bring it EVERY NIGHT.

    With regards to ZO, let’s take Reggie’s word (because we both quoted him), if Zo didn’t get injured, the Heat would’ve won 15 more games making them 26-30, like YOU said. That means with Zo they’ve would’ve won 46% of their games (26/56). Using simple math, 82 games with a win rate of 46% is a record of 38-44. That doesn’t sound like they are much worse than the Lakers of 04/05, who ended the season with a record of 34-48, as a matter of fact that sounds better. Didn’t you state that Wade’s team is a “expansion” team. That’s a pretty good record for an expansion team. As a matter of fact it’s better than the Lakers team of 2004/05.

    You know you can give Wade the benefit of the doubt all you want, based on his past (when Shaq was on his team), but the fact of the matter is, Dwayne Wade is in new territory. For the first time in his career Wade has to be the sole LEADER of the team (he wasn’t the leader early on in Miami because LO was the leader, and he wasn’t the leader the couple of years because Shaq was there).

    Like I said, Wade NOW has to show what kind of a player he really is. He’s not longer a rookie. He’s a veteran player with a ring, so now, we’re going to see how truly good of a player Wade really is. So far this year, he hasn’t shown it and obviously I’m not the only one to think that.

  • ab4sure

    First of all LO numbers were 15/10/4… just decent… try very good. Funny how you don’t put his entire stats, which is why your opinion just cherry picks facts and doesn’t do your argument justice. The line no one will agree doesn’t back up a point so stop reaching for it. And if you want to take a swipe at a previous post i did go right ahead. Why don’t you copy and paste it??? Otherwise that is just a cheap shot. I have no problem talking about a prior post.

    Only reason Butler contribution wasn’t more was because not alot of shots. I think you know why. What is williams value now.. it is an expiring contract… i don’t think they will be signing him to no big contract or long term plans. His level has dropped off drastically just like Shaq and if you don’t see it can’t help you there.

    “loverboy wade”.. just childish

    Wade was the leader of ship…hence mvp… now i am convinced you either have a chip on your shoulder against the guy or the heat or Shaq but whatever it is your leaning more to the people on this site who daily say “wade succs”. You would probably say “wade lazy”. Both those ideas suck and have no cred.

    you and this injury thing.. comparing a pinky that has no pain to recovery from shoulder and knee surgery .. a double surgery that has pain in recovery but he still puts out as much as his body will allow. No sense of fairness in your argument.

    Never mocked. are those my words..putting words in my mouth.. lol

    you still on the crossover… go and get a replay of the game.. look at it again and listen to the announcers.. it was bad defense not laziness, but at this point u will believe what you want to hear.

    Wade was the most important player on that ship team and he led them to victory…He got Shaq that ring and deserved all the accolades he got. HE has to start over, but to say he is lazy that is not something alot of people would agree with you. Your on an island there.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28236 Will Be Quoted Here]

    First of all, you can add the rebounds per game and assists all you want to LO’s 2004/2005 stats, that is still just DECENT. He did NOT have a better year in his first Laker year then he did in Miami. As a matter of fact LO’s has never ever had as a good of a year on the Lakers like he had in Miami (i.e. LO still hasn’t put up the numbers like he did in Miami). You cannot deny this fact. Now you’ll be probably bring up the argument that on Miami he was the first option but that’s a weak argument. The Lakers expected LO to put up the same numbers as he did in Miami, and he didn’t which is why LO has failed as the Lakers second option. Do you not deny the fact that LO has failed as the Lakers second option?

    This will further back up my point. LO has never been voted to an all-star game, not when he was in the east and not when he was in the west. Sports journalists say he is so close to being an all-star player but in reality, he just doesn’t have it. LO is a just a decent, hard working player, which is fine. I don’t understand why you think calling him a “decent” player is bad.

    You’re argument of “not a lot of shots” for Butler is weak. You keep bringing up that Williams is just an “expring contract”, but yet you can’t hide from the fact, that he was the starting guard for a championship team. Was he or was he not the starting point guard for the Miami Heat championship team? Was he or was he not a contributor to the championship team of Miami? If you say no, then you might as well say Derek Fisher wasn’t a contributor to the Lakers championship years.

    Loveboy Wade – PLEASE LIKE YOU HAVEN’T MADE ANY CHILDISH REMARKS TO DINGLEBERRY OR ANYONE ELSE HERE. YOU’RE JUST CHILDISH AS EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS SITE, BUT YOU’RE WORSE BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOU’RE ABOVE IT.

    No, Wade was NOT the sole leader of the Miami Heat championship team. There is a man named Shaquille O’Neal who was the real leader of that team and Miami didn’t do anything or would not have done anything in the playoffs without Shaq (just like the Lakers during their championship run). I’m not saying Wade wasn’t a major part to the championship run, but Shaq was the real leader on that team, just like Shaq was the real leader of the Laker championships. You agree that Shaq was the real leader on the Laker championship teams (I’ve seen you in other posts give credit to Shaq as the reasons why the Lakers won their rings, when other people here try to knock Shaq), but to TRY to prove your argument you ignore the fact that Shaq was also the real leader on the Miami Heat championship team. Wade would NOT have been as effective as he was without Shaq.

    Shaq makes the game easier for other players, like he did with Kobe and Wade and now Amare (you can’t deny this fact). Shaq requires so much attention that Kobe and Wade were able to go off and score the points that they did. Shaq was the real leader and concern of other teams during those championship years, for both Miami and the Lakers. Do you deny this fact?

    You keep saying that I have a “chip” on my shoulder regarding Wade and/or the Miami Heat, I can care less about Wade or the Heat (I have no ax to grind with them at all). The whole point of my original comment was, when Miami won their title, there were many people who said Dwayne is as good if not better than Kobe Bryant and I’m saying he’s not. Wade is not as a good of a defender as Kobe Bryant, he’s not as good as a shooter as Kobe Bryant, he’s not as good of a team leader as Kobe Bryant, he’s not as resilient as Kobe Bryant and he doesn’t have the determination that Kobe Bryant has.

    Apparently you have some strange infatuation with Dwayne Wade. You don’t acknowledge the fact that Wade has had a crap year in that he hasn’t stepped up when this team is supposed to be his (i.e he’s supposed to be the leader). We all know Wade can play, but can he be a leader that can carry his team. He has not done that this year. When you say Wade is injured and/or his team isn’t as good as that of the Lakers 04/05 team (a point that proved incorrect), you’re just making an excuses for the guy, which doesn’t help your argument. Just like those people who say “wade succs” or in my case “Wade Lazy”, then you should just say “Wade injured” or “Wade excuse”. If this is a man that can put up 33 points, like he did the other night, how injured can he really be?

    Do you really think Wade deserved to be on the eastern all-star team this year?? If you do, then you’re alone on that island because how many times did we hear TNT broadcasters (who we both like to quote) and ESPN broadcasters, and other sports jounalists who said that Wade should not have been an all-star this year.

    Apparently you’re not reading my entire comments. Allow me to repeat myself, the cross over dribble that Wade was beaten on was just ONE EXAMPLE of how he’s been lazy and inconsistent throughout the year. I also gave a second example.

    At the end of the day, you can’t deny the fact the Wade is in the same situation as Kobe was 4 years ago:

    - Like Kobe, he’s experiencing what life if like without Shaq
    - Like Kobe, Wade is on a similar team that doesn’t have a lot of fire power. I think I established that Miami’s team is NOT an expansion team, like you said they were. As a matter of fact, I think Miami’s team is slightly better than the Laker team Kobe was left with. Unfortunately for Miami, they lost a great player in Alonzo Mourning with his injury, but if prior to Mourning’s injury, Wade was not stepping up leading his team.
    - Like Kobe, Wade is expected to be the leader of his team and carry his team, however, he has not done so this year.
    - Like Kobe, Wade is on a team with the head coach ready to step out (your words, not mine) as Kobe had with Rudy T.

    I think the only difference is that the Lakers FO is a better FO than that of Miami.

    At the end of the day, Wade still has a lot to prove. He is now without Shaq (you cannot deny the fact that Shaq made Wade better, much like he did for Kobe) and he has to prove, much like Kobe and Lebron have, that he can’t carry an entire team. You can give Wade all the accolades you want, but those are praises to a Dwayne Wade that had Shaquille O’Neal, but I have yet to see Dwayne Wade step up and be a leader of HIS OWN TEAM. He has not done it this year.

  • ab4sure

    Name me 5 players in the league that avg. 15/10/4….

    LO has never been a first option….we were talking about williams today and what kind of team wade has today to play with… williams today IS AN EXPIRING CONTRACT. if you value him today urge mitch to sign him.. geez…

    I usually don’t initiate name calling but have retaliated…go find a post, be glad to respond. esp… the person you mentioned… you will find for sure who started that..

    Never said wade was the sole leader …twisting words. He was the leader of the team. ON the lakers shaq was but on the heat…Wade was…MVP Finals trophy…Shaq played a big part but the man was Wade much to your dismay i guess.

    Wade doesn’t deserve to be an allstar..25/7/4.. nothing to sneeze at..seriously you have me shaking my head and i am thinking what is this guy smoking.

    NO i read your Entire comments…the cross over dribble was a TERRIBLE EXAMPLE.

    LIFE WITHOUT Shaq… Shaq has very little impact on a game last yr and esp. this yr…. Miami was grateful to be free from his salary and Wade understands the sooner Shaq is gone the sooner they could rebuild.

    Better team…Kobe, LO, Butler…Wade, Marion.. kobe has the better team..three core players versus two… and building up williams didn’t help your cause just made you look like you were grasping for anything.

    Wade knows he can’t lead a team by himself, kobe thought he could but realized he needed help…finally thank god. Wade already got his accolades… and they were well deserved… His performance in the Finals was one that stands out…Sorry you missed it…

    It is obvious that you haven’t read the articles with P. Riley. But if you did you wouldn’t have given it its rightful due. You equate a pinky with no pain to a shoulder and knee that is in recovery from surgery while still being counted on to perform at the highest level.. that is no diss to kobe because he could have gotten surgery, but a TOTALLY UNFAIR CRITIQUE of Wade.

    Looking forward to finding the players that accompany Odom. You just might raise your estimation of him…lol.. but i doubt it.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28301 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Answer my question, did LO fail as a 2nd option for the Lakers? I’ll add another question, next year (not this year because Bynum is injured and probably will not start when he returns), will LO be the third option (my guess is probably not, because that will probably fall on Bynum).

    Furthermore, in 2003/2004 Miami Heat roster, LO was the first option. It wasn’t Caron, it wasn’t Wade, it was LO, so yes LO was the first option (I guess you weren’t on the Dwayne Wade/Heat bandwagon back then).

    You said that the Miami Heat team of today was worse than the Lakers of 2004/2005. I diagreed, J. Williams is not that far off of the player he was a mere two years ago. Personally I never thought J. Williams was all that, but I would definitely take J. Williams over Tierre Brown or Tony Bobbitt and possibly over Chucky Atkins, who can’t play a lick of defense, you know these guys were on the Laker roster in 2004/2005. It sounds like really value the stellar Laker backcourt of Chucky Atkins and Tierre Brown. You’re the genious GM who is implying like you’d rather have those guards than J. Williams.

    In you’re post, you completely implied that Shaq was NOT a leader in Miami (you never gave Shaq any credit) and you’ve given sole leadership and value to that of only Wade because he won the finals MVP. I am stating Shaq was the REAL reason the Miami Heat had the season that they did and is the real reason why Dwayne Wade produced the output that he did (opposition has to be so concerned about Shaq that they have to double team Shaq, which allows players like Kobe and Wade to really excel). It has nothing to do with me not liking Wade at all (I don’t care either way), but what I am saying is Wade was able to do what he did because Shaq was on his team. Again, Shaq makes the game easier for other players. Do you deny this?? Apparently, you’re giving Shaq all the credit for the Lakers success but zero credit for the Miami success. Sounds you have an agenda against Shaq when he went to Miami.

    Wade could average 24/7/4 all he wants, but beyond just getting his own stats, Wade now he has to be the leader of his team and make his teammates better, which he has not done yet (surely you know that there is more to be a superstar level talent than just stats). Kobe on the other hand does make his teammates better. Furthermore, how many games did Kobe single-handedly win over the past 4 years, when the Lakers had a poor roster in 2004/05 and when the Lakers were suffering through injuries to multiple players. You have me shaking my head on why you think Wade has made his teammates better. Other than his indivdual efforts, he has not been a leader for the Miami Heat this year. I’ve read newspaper articles where people are questioning Wade’s dedication to basketball in general because Wade has taken such an interest in business and acting, which is fine, if that’s what Wade wants to do. Wade has made it clear that in addition to business, he has an interest in acting (don’t you notice how many commercials he’s in with Barkely), which is why people, not just me, are questioning his ability to be a leader on the basketball court. His focus does not seem to be on basketball.

    The cross over dribble was not a terrible example because Wade made a weak attempt to poke it away from Sasha (maybe he underestimated Sasha’s ability), but that was just one example. The other example I saw was his entire play in the first half of the game where again he was scoreless, had 3 fould and 3 turnovers. When he came out in the first half, the heat were actually playing better. Yes, Wade played better in the second half, but how come he isn’t playing consistent for the entire game (oh I forgot he’s injured).

    Shaq was definitely a non-factor this year in Miami, but last year and the years before that (you know the years where they almost won and the year they did win), Shaq was a major factor in making Wade better. How come you don’t acknowledge this?

    Miami Heat of this year vs Lakers of 04/05, you keep stating the obvious, LO/KOBE/CARON, but you keep neglecting the fact that the rest of the team had inexperienced and not very good players such as Tierre Brown, Slava, Vlade, Cook, Walton (inexperienced), Sasha (inexperienced). In addition to Marion, and Wade, you can count Haslem (what about him!!) and even though Ricky Davis is dysfunctional, I would rather him Ricky Davis, than Cook, Jumain Jones, Vlade or Slava or even Devean George for that matter. I’d rather even have Mark Blount than f’n Vlade or Mihm (the human foul machine). You also forget that the Heat now have Marcus Banks, who is not a bad player. I’d rather have him than Tony Bobbitt.

    If you compare the Lakers of 2004/2005 and the Heat of Today, with both teams at full strength, the Heat have a better team. The Lakers of 04/05 finished 34-48 (.415) and I’ve already demonstrated with a healthy Zo, based on what the TNT commentators stated (remember, we both quote them) the heat would have won 15 more games, which put them at a win rate of .46, which is better than that of the Lakers of 04/05 and better than an expansion team.

    Again, the Wade with a Shaquille O’Neal got his accolades, which is fine, Wade played great with Shaq. However, the Wade without Shaq has not (Shaq was a non-factor this year, but Wade didnt step up early in the season). I’m sorry you think that Shaq had nothing to do with the Miami heat championship. Obviously, I’m not the only one saying this about Wade or else why would Riley have said what he said in those articles defending Wade. Wade now does have to prove himself that he can be a leader of a team. Wade is said to be a “superstar” calibur player like that of Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Duncan, Nash, etc. Now he has to prove it and he has not done it this year.

    You keep bringing up the surgeries that Wade had in the OFF SEASON. If Wade was truly dedicated to winning and putting his team first, then Wade should’ve focused more on rehabilitating his injuries post-surgery, and getting himself prepared for the season. What did Kobe do when he had knee surgery before the 06/07 season? He rehabilitated himself to the point where he was fully ready to go. You using Wade surgeries as an excuse as to why he’s not playing well, but if you’re using that excuse then its apparent did not do much to rehabilitate himself and get himself ready for the season. Not to mention, the knee surgery Wade had was a common surgery that basketball players usually get (it’s not like tore his ACL like you make it seem).

    Again, my entire first post that started all this was that there are people, and apparently you sound like one of them, who said Wade was better than Kobe, (especially after Wade won his ring with the help of Shaq, whom you don’t like to acknowledge), and I am saying that Wade, now that he no longer has Shaq to help him out, has to step up and be a leader of his team and he has not done that yet. He does look like he’s given up on his team. There are games that I’ve seen this year, where Wade has not been aggressive and looks distracted.

    If Wade is as good as you think he is, then we’ll find out next year (when of course he is fully healthy) and see if Wade really steps up to be a leader. You can say what you want about Kobe, but Kobe, even when he had that crap roster of 04/05 and even after he had knee surgery (before the 06/07 season) still came to play EVERY NIGHT. Yea, Kobe said sh*t he shouldn’t have said in the offseason about his teammates but for the past 4 years, he has come to play every night. Wade is in year 1 of being the leader of Miami, and he does not come to play every night.

  • ab4sure

    LO is a facilitator. He is not a number one guy. Options…give me a break. He can rebound, score, assist.. he can do it all. Find any players yet??? 15/10/4…lol

    Again kobe, LO, Butler>>>>Wade and Marion…miami heat this yr has inexperienced players… Shaq was a leader on that team not THE LEADER… WADE WAS.. Shaq makes the game easier but Wade was the most valuable… i gave shaq all the credit with the lakers… again twisting words… please find the post.. again you can’t back up the words you speak.

    Your really barking up the wrong tree here…kobe has played much better this yr as both a facilitaor and leader…i have no problem with his play this yr… man it looks like you just want to start an argument…. now your talking about commercials..i am still shaking my head… if kobe could have gotten those he would have done them too.. he probably will after this yr..

    Also you still dont’ see Shaq deterioration… He is a shell of himself since the glory days in LA… and yes i did give him credit then and i have given credit for helping the heat win…but definitely not as much.. SHAQ DOESN’T EARN BONUS POINTS FOR PAST GLORIES..STOP GIVING IT TO HIM…NUMBER DROPPED OFF CONSIDERABLY.

    btw..i ROOTED WHOLE HEARTEDLY FOR THE HEAT … AND WITH PLEASURE… I LOVE SHAQ…BUT I DON’T LET MY LOVE BIAS MY THINKING… u should do the same.. you and reggie and the few you can find can live on that island together because there are very few with your thinking.

    Now you don’t know your history… Wade put off surgery so that he might play in the PO’s last yr… UNFAIR CRITIQUE…. YOUR BIAS IS DEFINITELY SHOWING.

    I agree Kobe came to play every night… that season when they won 34 games… I had no problem with kobe… he works out probably the hardest of anyone to the point of being obsessive about it… Good for the lakers, good for him.. good for us…

    I never said Wade was better than Kobe…but i know you would like me too…lol… I have always said that kobe is the most talented player there is… one on one…kobe is better than Wade… I go by John Wooden who says “Kobe is a great individual talent” This yr. if he keeps up this team play he will get the MVP he wants and perhaps the Finals trophy again and I couldn’t be happier.

    I don’t judge players based on who is my favorite player as most do on here… I am beginning to think you do…

  • ab4sure

    Funny how you just can’t find those players who have numbers of at least 15/10/4…. Still searching??? LOL

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28334 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Faciliator?? Please that’s just another way to say that LO has failed as the #2 option on the Lakers. It’s interesting that you don’t like to admit this. You don’t know like to admit when you’re wrong and you are incorrect about LO. If LO has proved himself as such a valuable commodity to the Lakers, why is he the subject of trade rumors EVERY YEAR? I’ll tell you why, because he’s an overpaid player. Now I’m not blaming the Lakers for LO’s salary because they inherited that from Miami. You continue to NOT answer my question, so here it again, has LO failed as the number two option on the Lakers?? You know he has, so just admit it.

    Ricky Davis is an experienced player (dysfuntional but experienced), as is Marcus Banks, Jason Williams, Adonis Haslem, and Shaq and Zo who the Miami Heat had at the begninng of the year. If you want to say that the Laker roster of 04/05 which had Tierre Brown, tony Bobbitt, Jumaine Jones, Vlade Davic, Slava Medvenkso (most of these players aren’t even in the NBA anymore), is better than the current Heat, you can go right ahead but you are in the wrong here. Not to mention LO and Caron were not all-star calibur players when they were on the Lakers. When the Heat and Wade got Shawn Marion, they got a proven multiple time All-Star on their team. I’ve already you proven you wrong when you said the Heat was an “expansion team”, when compared to the Lakers 04/05 roster.

    You and I are going to agree to disagree that SHAQ WAS THE REAL LEADER ON THE both Miami and the Lakers. From 1999 to 2006, Shaq played on 6 teams that had were either the NBA finals and/or made it to conference finals:

    Western confernce Finals:
    1999/2000: Lakers beat Portland (Shaq on the Lakers)
    2000/2001: Lakers beat San Antonio(Shaq on the Lakers)
    2001/2002: Lakers beat Sac (Shaq on the Lakers)
    2002/2003: San Antononio beat Dallas
    2003/2004: Lakers beat Minn (Shaq on Lakers)

    Eastern Confernece Finals:
    2004/2005: Detroit beat Miami (Shaq was on Miami)
    2005/2006: Miami beat Detroit (Shaq on Miami)

    And I don’t need to tell the years that Shaq won his rings. Other than the 2002/2003 season, from 1999 to 2006 (6 of those 7 years) Shaq has been on teams that have at the very least gone to the Conference Finals. He’s the one common denominator on these teams and to me that demonstrates his LEADERSHIP and VALUE, more so than Kobe and Wade individually because neither of those two have done anything on their own. Wade, just like Kobe, would not have won his ring without Shaq.

    Again, the point of my stating that Wade has been in multiple commercials this year was just yet another example of how Wade has been distracted this year. Wade had admitted that he has other interests in basketball, and that includes acting (the mention of the commercials was just a demonstration of this – I swear with you its like talking to toothpaste. For some reason you don’t like understand examples. I don’t understand why this).

    I never said that Shaq was deteriorating. I don’t know where you got the impression that I think Shaq is still the dominating player he once was (i’ve never said this. Find a post where I said that Shaq is still dominating. This is your incorrect thinking).

    One thing that can’t be denied is he still makes players better, just like he is doing with Amare Stoudemire, because Shaq’s sheer presence requires so much attention. However, I disagree with your comment where you say Shaq’s glory days were only in L.A (again you fail to acknowledge Shaq’s contributions in Miami). Other than this year and part of last year, Shaq had very good years in Miami, which is why Miami made it to the Easter conference finals in Shaq’s first year there and why the Miami Heat won their title the following year. Since Shaq’s deterioration and since Shaq left, Wade obviously has not stepped up to take over as the real leader of Miami, which is why Miami got bounced from the playoffs last year and to everyone’s surprise (and it is a surprise), why the Heat have such a poor record this year.

    Other than smacking you upside the head or tattoing a message on your body, I don’t know how else to convince you that I have no biased (either positove or negative) against the Heat. I call them like I see them. Shaq on the Lakers, led to rings. Shaq on Miami led to rings. Kobe has clearly taken over as the leader of the Lakers. Wade has yet to demonstrate the leadership role on Miami, which is why they have the poor record that they do.

    I do know my history and I am aware that Wade put off his surgeries to play in the playoffs, I said that Wade had his surgeries in the OFF SEASON, which is why I capitalized OFF SEASON in my last post (Wade missed the Tournament of Americas Olympic Qualifiers over the summer due to his surgeries). If you’re saying that Wade’s play is still suffering due to his surgeries, which happend during the offseason, then its apparent that Wade did not take the time to properly rehabilitate himself after those surgeries to prepare for the NBA season. It’s also apparent that Wade did not and has not focused on fully stregthening his body to take over as the sole leader of the Miami Heat team, just as Kobe did with the Lakers and just as Lebron did with the Cavs. Why you don’t see this, I have no clue, maybe because YOU have a biased for Wade, which is becoming more clear as this thread continues. It’s becoming more apparent that in your eyes Dwayne Wade can no wrong, when it is evident that this year Wade did not come prepared to be the real leader of the Miami Heat team, which is a reason why the Heat have no identity (Riley even admits this). A team with an identity needs to have a leader that reflects this identity.

    As always though, you like to deviate from my original post and the point of my original post which was:

    LakersFirst (Change) (Close)
    Feb 29th, 2008 at 1:21 am

    Michael_23 on February 29, 2008 at 1:04 am said: Dwayne Wade looks like he’s given up on his team …

    Agreed, D Wade does look like he has given up.

    A few years ago, when Miami won their title, people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe. Well now Wade has his opportunity to prove it how good he really is now that he’s by himself (no Shaq). So far Wade hasn’t done much.

    Kobe on the other hand is now truly establishing himself as a player that can be a true TEAM leader and lead his team to the title.

    You came back and made an excuse for Wade stating he is still injured (from surgeries that he had in the OFF SEASON)

    Dwayne Wade now has the opportunity to prove how good he really is because he is now the sole leader of that Miami Heat team (just like Kobe is the sole-leader of the Lakers team) and Wade has not done so, but you like to make excuses for the guy (who between you and I really has a biased here?).

    You have yet to make any real case, or show any real examples, of how Wade has stepped up and become a better player this year. His numbers this year are down when compared to the previous two years (points and assists, rebounds are pretty much the same) and isn’t it a coicidence that Shaq was on his team when Wade averaged his 27 ppg the previous two years. The Heat record is poor one, which is a surprise because at the beginning of the year people thought with Wade and Shaq that the Heat would still be a contender in the East.

    This is Wade’s fifth year in the league. In his first year, he had LO and Caron and years 2 through 4 he had Shaq. Now, in his first year on his own, Wade MUST step up and be a leader for the Miami Heat to succeed. He has not done so and yet to prove otherwise.

  • ab4sure

    Alot of circular reasoning and alot of opinions based on distorted facts.. still building up this team of williams and davis… bench players on most teams…. zo was injured… shaq played like crap this yr for miami… wade didn’t even play the first several games… they lost posey and kapono…your getting pathetic… let it go… LO a good facilitator…STILL CAN’T FIND A PLAYER WITH 15/10/4..Can you find ONE…JUST ONE????.. YOU AVOID THINGS ALOT IN THESE ARGUMENTS.

    I never said dominating… twisting words AGAIN..

    Again… go ahead and criticize Wade surgery, rehab, conditioning, heart… YOu must be his DOCTOR, PHYSICAL THERAPIST, TRAINER, AND COUNSELOR…. NOT TO MENTION COACH…

    STILL SEARCHING FOR JUST THAT ONE PLAYER??? WOULD YOU LIKE SOME HELP??

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28352 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Despite what you think, my opinions are not based on distorted facts. In fact, at least my opinions are based on facts, unlike your opinions which are based solely on excuses.

    We are comparing the Lakers of 04/05 to the Miami Heat of today, and I have already proven that the Heat of today are a better team. Apparently, if you are GM you would much rather have players Vlade, Slava, Cook, Tierre Brown, Tony bobbit, etc (players who aren’t even in the NBA anymore) as opposed to having Haslem, Banks, Davis, Blound and Williams (all players have been starters on teams in the past and two of these players were starters on a championship Miami Heat team). Personally, I think the Heat have a poor record because Wade has not stepped to be a team leader (injuries have hurt their season as well, but with an NBA Finals MVP, you figure he would lead them to more than just 11 victories).

    You like calling LO a “facilitator”, which is another nice word for role-player, but the Lakers did not need LO to be a facilitator, they expected and needed Odom to be solid second option (i.e. co-leader) but he failed to do that. He is a well paid “facilitator that you know very well would not be on the Lakers had Memphis demanded LO to included in the Gasol trade.

    I don’t understand why you don’t want admit that LO failed as the Lakers second option as everyone here, and all Lakers fans for that matter, have already accepted his failure to do this, and have accepted that he is nice fourth and maybe third option). He failed to be a second option in first year with the Lakers, as well as the following years to present day.

    You say I avoid a lot in arguments but YOU ARE worse than me. You completely ignore all of the facts that I have provided. How come you won’t admit that LO has failed as the Lakers second option and he is an overpaid “facilitator” (i.e. role player). Do YOU need help to admit that LO failed as the Lakers second option?

    You also won’t acknowledge that Wade has not stepped up to be a team leader in Miami this year, like he needs to be, similar to how Kobe did it. How come? If Wade is as good as everyone thinks he is or was as prepared for the season, then how come the Heat have only won 11 games all year long. With Wade’s talent, don’t you think the Heat would have won more than games than just 11????

    I don’t claim to be Wade’s, “DOCTOR, PHYSICAL THERAPIST, TRAINER, AND COUNSELOR…. NOT TO MENTION COACH” but one thing I know for sure, with Wade’s talent alone, the Heat should have won more than just 11 games this year. I don’t know what’s wrong with Wade, but with his experience and the fact that he was the NBA Finals MVP (as you’ve clearly have pointed out), he should at least lead his team to move victories that just 11 (do you now agree with that?). Any other team leader, Kobe, Lebron, even Dirk, would have led that Miami team to more than just 11 wins. The mere FACT (another fact coming) that the Heat only have 11 wins demonstrates that Wade has not stepped up this year. Again, something you like aviod.

    You laugh at my comments but I at least have provided examples of how Wade has not a good year and how he has not yet proved himself to be a leader of a team, yet. You are on the other hand have not providing any facts whatsoever that demonstrate Wade has having stepped up this year You have just provided excuses for him, which if you want to use them, go ahead. It makes your argument weak and laughable.

    I am really disspointed in you. In your other posts, you seem to make a lot of sense, except in this one. All you did was make excuses for Wade and now you try to make youself look better by taking our converation in different tangents, when you know Wade hasn’t stepped up this year to be a team leader. I don’t know what more to tell you.

    I proved, with fact (6 of 7 years Shaq led his team to at least the conference finals) that Shaq was the real reason why Miami won their titles, but you don’t want to acknowledge him (because it sounds like to you, Wade is the sole reason why the heat won their titles). L

    ike I said, I call them like i see them. Shaq in L.A. won rings, made Kobe better. Kobe is on his own, leading his team. Shaq in Miami, won a ring, made Wade better. Wade on his own, has yet to demontrate leadership and prove himself as the sole leader of his team. This is simple common sense if you follow the NBA like I THOUGHT you do.

    Again, I’m calling them like I see them regarding my “criticizing” of Wade. He hasn’t not stepped up this year and has yet to prove himself as the sole leader of Miami, which is why Miami has had a disspointing season and have only won 11 games.

    Do you still need help in admitted that LO failed has the Lakers second option. I can provide more fact for you. How about yesterday when at the end of the game, LO missed 3 of his last 4 critical free throws (the first 2, LO missed and Kobe rebounded) and the 3rd and 4th free thows, he practically airballed the third and thankfully made the 4th (I swear he would’ve been attacked had he missed that 4th one).

  • ab4sure

    Starters in the past does not mean your any good today or in the future. Again…kobe, butler, and LO are better than Marion and Wade.. Look at the core and stop building up the fringe..williams, banks, etc… You make a good use refrigerator salesman… selling broken down refrigerators…

    Magic wasn’t a first, 2nd, third option… Kareem was first, worthy, and Scott…Magic still got his pts, reb. and assists.. Magic was a facilitator.. would you call him a “decent” player???

    Look back at my other posts i never said Wade was the sole reason…AGAIN YOU DISTORT MY WORDS…JUST SO YOU CAN MAKE A POINT… that won’t work with me…maybe others.. maybe u fooling yourself just so you won’t be wrong..

    Again… this is like the fourth post by you and you can’t name me a player that avg. 15/10/4 like LO did. Have you given up??? Or perhaps that would make you appear wrong.

    CAN YOU NAME ME A PLAYER THAT AVG. 15/10/4???????? Please don’t name Magic… I gave you that one… I will help you though… Do you want some help???

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28382 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You’re going to put LO to on the same pedestal as Magic Johnson. Are you serious??? If you are, you’ve lost all credibility to ANYONE who reads this. I once thought you were one of few people on this site who actually knew something but I think you just flushed that opinion of mine down the toilet. I think you just made “Dingleberry” LOL.

    First of all, you’re living on this 15ppg/10rpg/4asp. However, when I visit this link, http://www.nba.com/history/players/johnsonm_stats.html, nowhere on it is does it reference that Magic averaged 15/10/4, Not ever in one season did Magic average 15 pts /10 rebounds /4 assists nor did Magic average this when you tally up his career. Magic did better and averaged for career 19ppg/7rbg/11apg. I don’t see LO doing this. All I’ve seen LO do is fail as the second option, like many have seen LO do, and he has now fallen down to the fourth option (when Bynum gets back of course). I like Odom. I think he plays hard, however, he has been a disappointment in his Laker career because he has the potential to be so very good, but yet he lacks the agression and consistency to be a top option.

    Additionally, how dare you to try to even put Lamar Odom on the same pedastal as Magic Johnson. You do realize Magic is former All-Star of multiple years, he’s a hall of famer, he has jersey retired up in the rafters of Staples Center, he’s a former MVP, and he once owned the all-time assist record. Why you bring up LO and Magic Johnson in the same comparison is beyond me? As a Laker fan, I’m actually insulted that you dare bring up the value of LO to that of Magic Johnson. You have got be kidding me. Lamar Odom hasn’t even made one All-Star appearance and you want to say his value/role on the Lakers is similar to that of Magic Johson!!!

    Furthermore, I would not call Magic a facilitator, I call Magic one of the LEADERS of the Lakers, along with Kareem and Worthy, you know other hall of famers that it sounded like you were comparing LO to (I really hope you weren’t so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt). I guess your definition of “facilitator” is a lot different than mine. Magic is a hall of famer and was a LEADER of the Lakers during the Showtime era. LO had done sh*t to be even be used in the same breath when bringing up LO to other Lakers GREATS!

    I also disagree with you, Magic was the first option, no not the first option to score, but he was the first option to setup the play (i.e. the first option to be the ball handler) and setup the offense for Kareem and Worthy and the rest of the Lakers to score and if Magic felt he had the better chance to score, Magic did just that.

    Yea, now you have me curious, what other hall of fame players are you giong to mention and put LO on the pedestal as? I got to hear this. Please don’t tell me you’re going to do something ascenine and add Larry Legend to this mix who averaged 24/10/6 for his career. Or maybe you’ll put LO on the same pedestal as Jason Kidd, who for his career gets 14/7/9, but then again Kidd has 99 triple doubles in his career (third on the all time list by the way ). I got it, why don’t put LO on the same pedestal as Scottie Pippen, (his numbers are 18/8/5 for his career), oh wait, but then again, Scottie was the decisive second option behind Jordan (and an all-star multiple times and on the all NBA defensive team a few times as well) and you know… LO was supposed to be the Scottie Pippe to Kobe Bryant, but he couldn’t hack it as the second option (I hope you can catch the sense of sarcasm throughout this paragraph).

    If you’re calling me a refrigerator salesman, then I’m calling you drug dealer who sells sh*t to kids, because I’m no little kid and I’m not buyin the sh*t you’re trying to shovel my way with this LO and Magic comparison. I hold Magic in a little higher regard than obviously you do.

    With regards to Shaq, I have looked back on your words (they are in quotes) and you’ve said the following:

    “Wade was the leader of ship…hence mvp…” (no mention of Shaq)

    “Wade was the most important player on that ship team and he led them to victory…He got Shaq that ring and deserved all the accolades he got.” (again WADE got Shaq the ring, I see no positive comments for Shaq)

    “He (Wade) was the leader of the team. ON the lakers shaq was but on the heat…Wade was…MVP Finals trophy…Shaq played a big part but the man was Wade much to your dismay i guess.” (again you clearly position Wade as being the “leader of the team”, especially on the Lakers but when you mention the Heat, you give most of the praises again to Waide with no reference to Shaq, until towards the end where you said “Shaq played a big part but the man was Wade”. To me this is not positioning Shaq has equal leader like you say you have).

    “He (Shaq) is a shell of himself since the glory days in LA… and yes i did give him credit then and i have given credit for helping the heat win…but definitely not as much.. SHAQ DOESN’T EARN BONUS POINTS FOR PAST GLORIES..STOP GIVING IT TO HIM” (no you clearly do not give Shaq credit for helping the Heat win their ring because you say “definitely as not as much”. With this phrase, you continue to give all the credit to Wade, but I beg to differ, Shaq with the Lakers won rings, Shaq with the Heat won a ring. Lakers no Shaq, Lakers no rings (hopefully that will change in the future). Miami with no Shaq, going to lottery because Wade didn’t step up like a finals MVP should).

    I have not distorted any of your words, like you have accused me of. You have never given Shaq his fair share of having led the Miami Heat to their sole championship because after “the man was Wade”.

    I am now asking YOU, I believe a fifth time, Has LO failed as the Lakers second option, despite his amazing 15/10/4 that he got in first year with the Lakers?

  • ab4sure

    Well I knew it would happen… You would say that i was saying Magic and LO are the same. I didn’t want to mention it becuase I wanted to test it. It proves my hypothesis about you that you WILL DISTORT AN ARGUMENT TO MAKE YOU SELF RIGHT. Magic is obviously a superior player but you had to take the bait. I am the last guy who would want to disrespect Magic. Comparing Postition not Productivity…. I know your just trying to win an argument so common sense by you is thrown out the window. LOL Of course Magic numbers were better than LO. Funny how you now do research… Where was that research several posts back..LOL

    Facilitator and Leader are not Mutually exclusive.. do i have to explain that to you… Use some common sense because your many words you write are just for your own bruised ego and trying to rationalize your points. Your thrashing in the water.

    Wade was the leader… just like Kobe is the leader…there are others who helped and help like kobe has fish, Pau now, LO, etc.. Wade had Shaq, payton, etcc .. Let it go… geez

    Seeing no positive comments doesn’t mean i don’t think he was a positive productive player who played his part.. Now your getting anal… JUST LOOKING TO FIND DISAGREEMENT…

    Wade was MVP of the Finals deservedly… he gets more Credit than Shaq.. Watch the series … you missed a good one.

    LO can be the first option… take a rebound drive all the way to the basket and score… he can be the 2nd option… post up a smaller player on the block.. he did that pretty well against the phx suns Marion… he can be the third option.. kobe has the ball and is doubled…passes it to farmer… LO’s man closes on farmer.. pass to LO for a drive or a 15 ftr. in rhythm… His weak spot is in crunchtime where I wouldn’t want him shooting the last shot, but how many guys do in the league do you want to have the last shot…kobe and a few others… Even very good productive players like LO in the league you don’t want to have the last shot. I bet your response will be omg… LO has failed… you just won’t admit it… blah blah blah blah blah… seriously when you respond don’t keep harping on the same points… it makes you look like a loser trying to win a game you have basically lost.

    You were right though in one question and i have to give you credit because not alot of people would know this. What player in the league avgs. 15/10/4????… You left that blank everytime… therefore your answer was NO ONE…. YOU WERE RIGHT!!! The answer was NO ONE. CONGRATULATIONS!!

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28418 Will Be Quoted Here]

    BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

    Do you hear that sound??? That’s the sound of the AB4Sure truck backing up and backpeddling?

    BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

    Oh wait there it goes again.

    Take the bait?? PLEASE. You tried to set me up and much to your chagrin it didn’t work (pathetic little boy who I now have lost all respect for). I never answered your question because, despite what you think, I did do my research and learned that no one has averaged 15/10/4.

    Despite what you think of me not doing my research, you are incorrect, as have you been througout our conversation. I did do my research (I always do research. I researched in school, and no not a merely ungraduate college degree, my education goes beyond that, and I research in my current job).

    There a few things you didn’t make clear, which is not a surpise because you are never clear. For one I did attempt to up players that averaged 15/10/4 however, you were not clear as to whether or not I could up look players in other SEASONS, or in just the one season where LO performed this mirraculous feat (its funny how you don’t like to be clear in your responses, which leaves them open to different types of interpretation so when someone interprets them one way, and brings up a good point, you immediately back track, BEEP BEEP BEEP, and that person is wrong because you take the opposite interpretation. I think you do this subconsciously because you can’t admit when you’re wrong). So, I only did research for the 2004/2005 season because being a statistician I know it isn’t a fair comparison to compare players’ numbers in one season to another players’ numbers in another season. That’s not a comparison of apples to apples, so to speak (i.e. that’s not comparing an even sample size).

    When I couldn’t I find anyone from the 2004/2005 season, I wanted to let you tell me who else performed this incredible feat of 15/10/4 because you are offered to do so and I just knew you would do something as stupid as list an All-Star or a Hall of Famer. What’s worse is, to try to prove your point, which by now I don’t even know what it is, YOU MADE SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS UP AND LIED ABOUT IT (stupid little boy and you called me childish?).

    Right when you brought up Magic, I absolutely knew you were full of sh*t, (I had that feeling before, but you now completely convinced me). ANYBODY having read what you mistakenly wrote(and it was a mistake to write what you wrote) would take it as you were valuing LO’s role on the Lakers as the same as Magic’s (and I bet deep down inside you do value LO just as much as Magic, but you probably dont’t want to admit it).

    You say I distort arguments (which is getting old to say now, I merely reply to what you write), well if I distort arguments, then with you it is evident that that you like to make up data to try to win an argument, which you did with the Magic and the 15/10/4. That’s pretty bad. Like I said, I’ve lost all respect for you and now agree with what the others in this forum say about you (don’t worry I won’t partake in their childlike comments. Although some of them are pretty funny).

    You called Magic a mere faciliator, which if you view Magic as just that, then you need to watch some ESPN classic games and watch Magic be a leader and see how he helped lead Laker teams to 5 championships. Maybe this will help you learn what a leader is (it doesn’t sound like you know) Like I said, its evident that I hold Magic in higher regard than you do. Magic was a true team leader and for you to try to make something up and even mention to LO next to him is absolutely sad (and completely moronic). BEEP BEEP BEEP (there goes that AB4Sure truck backing up again).

    I don’t think you know what a true team leader is when according to you, Wade has acted as team leader when his team has only won 11 games this year. Hmmm?? Shaq before Wade, there were no rings?? Shaq with Wade they won a title. Wade still on the Heat, only won 11 games? Makes me wonder the true value that Shaq once provided (oh but I forgot Wade is injured and is still recovering from his surgeries that he got LAST summer). What will be your excuse for Wade next year? I hope you’re thinking about them. It’s never too early to start.

    You too are just trying to win an argument and you have done a lousy job of doing so. You like to say I distort an argument but the fact of the matter, there was only one way to take your ridiculous Magic/LO comment. Despite what you think, I have not distorted one thing. I quoted you, verbatim, and all your praises and all of your reasons why the Miami Heat won their ring and all your quotes pointed to Wade, with very little, if any, credit to Shaq. I did watch the series between the Mavs and the Heat. It was a great series. But did you follow the Heat the entire SEASON. It’s funny how when Shaq was in Miami (prior to this year) that they were a playoff bound team and now that without Shaq, the heat flat out suck. It’s also interesting that Wade, seeing his team in need of a leader, hasn’t picked up this leadership role resulting in the Heat having won only 11 games. I figure an NBA finals MVP would come to play every night.

    Simple math again: Shaq + Lakers = 3 championships. Shaq + Heat = 1 championship. Wade (only) + Heat = 1 playoff apperance (Wade’s rookie year) & no playoff appearance (this year). I think that math is simple enough for you.

    Wade is the leader of Miami but too bad for the Heat he hasn’t acted it like it this year or else they would’ve won more than 11 games, seeing how Wade is the main reason why they won their ring (you know his finals MVP proves it). If the Heat want to compete again, Mr. Finals MVP Dwayne Wade has to assume the role of leader and LEAD his team. The first step of doing this would be to compete on the court EVERY NIGHT.

    It wasn’t the fact that you didn’t write “positive comments” about Shaq, you didn’t write ANY comments about Shaq until I called you out to do so. When you don’t say anything about a player (Shaq), and you only praise his teammate (Wade) as the real reason the team won a title (“the man was Wade”), how else am I (or anyone else for that matter) supposed to take your feelings (or lack thereof) towards the player you gave no credit to? You obviously didn’t feel compelled enough to include Shaq as the reason why the Heat won their title and have had the success they have. Like I said, it wasn’t until after I called you out that you finally gave Shaq a minimal accolades. Like I said, its obvious Wade (and now LO) can do no wrong in your eyes, which is why to you, Wade is the reason for Miami’s success (except this year of course, because Wade is still injured). I know you like to quote what others here at the Lakernation say and use what they have said against them, and now I have done it to you and YOUR Midget-like EGO is bruised. It’s ok. You’ll live.

    At the end of the day, your boy Wade, will have to prove that he can win another ring without Shaq, much like Kobe has to. You know what though, if this is the start of Wade’s reign as the sole-leader of the Heat, with their mighty 11 wins, then the Miami Heat are in for long seasons up ahead.

    LO HAS failed as the Lakers consistent second option (you need to wake up and smell the sh*t you’re shoveling). You don’t like to admit this because its obvious you don’t like to admit when you are wrong. LO has failed as the Lakers second option which is demonstrated in the Lakers 17-3 run when Bynum stepped up and into the role as the Lakers second option. Then when Bynum went down, the weight fell on LO again, and again LO was nowhere to be found, so Gasol was acquired and took the load as the second option (and thank God for that. I think we agree that Mitch saved the Lakers there). Its obvious that I am not the only that thinks LO has failed as the Lakers second option, I think Kobe sees this as well. This was clearly demonstrated in Sundays game against the Mavs. With the game winding towards its ends, Kobe dribble drives and goes baseline, with Odom wide open in the corner and Gasol double teamed in the paint. Rather than make the easy pass to a wide open Odom, Kobe chooses to force a pass into Gasol, which led to an unfortunate turnover. Kobe basically would rather force a pass to a double teamed Gasol then pass the ball to an unguarded Odom because “His (LO) weak spot is in crunchtime where I wouldn’t want him shooting the last shot” (again I’m quoting you).

    You say that LO can be the first option, but he can only do that when he rebounds the ball and goes to coast to coast (funny how he doesn’t do this as often as he used to). You say LO can be a third option where the second option passes him the ball and drives to the hoop but unfortunately for LO, he misses too many layups in a game (he misses at least 4 or 5. Are you going to deny this?). Or, like you said, he could hit the 15ftr in rhythm, but unfortunately LO doesn’t have a great jump shot so he tends to miss those more often than he makes his them (you can’t tell me that you think LO’s jump shot is good, can you? Then again you try to get me to buy that sh*t about Magic, so at this point, I believe you’ll say anything to attempt to win an argument).

    AB4Sure, after having this long conversation with you, I have learned that you think Wade can no do wrong. You think LO has succeeded as the Lakers second option and you like to make up facts and use those made up facts to try to prove a point, which you did a horrible job of. I am now dumber for having talked with you. Also, I learned that you don’t understand simple reasoning. Shaq + Lakers = Rings, Shaw w/ Wade = Ring, Wade with no Shaq = 1 playoff appearance & no playoff appearance (no rings). I have also learned that you don’t know the definition of a true leader and I have learned that what everyone writes about you is absolutely correct.

    What an eye opener this has been. I thank you.

    BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP (do you hear that sound again?)

  • ab4sure

    Having your respect is nothing i would ever want.

    I never valued Magic’s role the same as LO’s..TWISTING WORDS.. AGAIN.. this is your MO now… beep beep beep…lol.. your outta control… LOL .. Much of what you said as already been said.. Your like a Cow who likes to chew his Cud.. again and again and again…btw.. he who writes the most words doesn’t win the argument… esp… when he writes the same thing.. over and over and over…

    I have written numerous positive comments on Shaq.. u just tend to overlook those because it doesn’t support your slanted thinking..

    If a quote contradicts what a person has already said yes i will use it and call them on it esp. if they bash the player or person unfairly.

    I think you need a beer.. you need to chill. I read your post a couple of paragraphs at a time. Very wordy. So I try to give your words the attention they need. Maybe too much…

    BTW I never tried to teach you anything… I have just let you rant repeatedly on the same things over and over again… My only original point was concerning injuries and how that affects a player and that it is hard to judge a player when he is injured. You excluded… you can judge a player’s injury like his doctor or physical therapist…and even a doctor doesn’t know all. A doctor asks how a patient feels.. your better than a doctor I guess… you must be??? a three letter word… starts with a G and ends with a D… mmmmm??? I wonder if you were with Wade thru his surgeries… thru his rehabs… thru his practices… what you would think….. but why would you have to be there….. because you hold the supreme position of G_D.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28486 Will Be Quoted Here]

    How can I be twisting words, when I have quoted you verbatim? You say the same things over and over and over again, “like a cow chewing his cud”. You too don’t saying anything new.

    I still don’t understand yout point of referencing Magic when you mentioned LO has his 15/10/4. It sounds like you wanted to set me up so that I would make up some facts and say that such and such player averaged 15/10/4, and had I done that you would’ve called me out as not being knowledgeable. Well based on my research I couldn’t find any player that averaged 15/10/4 so I went around that and never answered your question, also in part because you never answered my question regarding LO having failed as the Laker second option (your lack of response to my LO question is a clear indication that you do admit that LO has failed as the Lakers second option).

    Because your posts are so open-ended and can be interpreted in multiple ways, which you like to do with most of your responses, I could have also had said that based on my research that NO ONE has averaged 15/10/4, in the 2004/2005 season, but then you would’ve responded with something like “see no one averaged these numbers” therefore heightening LO’s performance, but I didn’t do that either.

    Besides the 15/10/4, the only other way you referenced Magic was by call him a “facilitator” (implying that Magic being faciliator is similar to LO being a facilitator) and asking the question if I would call Magic’s play merely “decent”, and this was the reason for my response to how your comments imply that LO’s role on the Lakers is of the same value. As I stated, I hold Magic in much higher regard than that of a mere facilitator. Anybody who makes an assist is a facilitator (all point guards in the league are facilitators). Magic was a team leader and to reference Magic when talking about the play of LO makes no sense to me, and only made you look foolish.

    You say that I write the same words over and over again, but YOU do the same exact thing. How many times did you tell me over and over and over again to answer your question of “name 5 other players who averaged 15/10/4″ to attempt to prove your point? Well here’e the answer (to quote you, again) “this is like the fourth post by you and you can’t name me a player that avg. 15/10/4 like LO did.” You don’t say anything different either (man if you have kids I would hate be your child “do as I say, not as I do”, “yes daddy”).

    To further prove this point, you wrote that “SHAQ DOESN’T EARN BONUS POINTS FOR PAST GLORIES..STOP GIVING IT TO HIM”. Well you should take heed to your own advice. You basically have put Wade on such a high pedestal based on “his past glories” (i.e. his NBA Finals MVP). Wade hasn’t done much this year so don’t try to come his defense (injuries, his team sucks, etc) and put Wade on such a high pedestal based on HIS past glories. What has Wade done presently, on a consistent basis?

    In this conversation we have had, you never gave the proper credit to Shaq, until I called you on it. I provided numerous quotes, without distorting any of your comments, and all of your comments eluded to the fact that in your opinion Wade was the sole-reason for the Heat’s championship. There is no other way to take the statement “Wade was the leader of ship…hence mvp…” or “Wade was the most important player on that ship team and he led them to victory…He got Shaq that ring and deserved all the accolades he got.” How can I distort this to support my “slanted thinking”? I think you’re just using this distorting thing as a defense mechanism. It’s ok, we all have defense mechanisms.

    Oh God, now my posts wordy, is there anything else you want to critique me on? I swear you like to deviate away from the original topics hand, which, to remind you, was, now that Wade is the sole leader of the team, he now has to prove how good he really is, exactly like Kobe has to.

    My “rants” as you called them were mere responses your counter “rants”. You say Wade is injured, I call that an excuse. As I said, the guy had his surgeries in the off season. Based on his play this year and the performance of his team, he clearly did not prepare himself for the season, whether that be not properly rehabbing or not getting himself metally prepared to be the LEADER of the Miami Heat for the season, which explains his team’s record. I don’t need to have been his doctor to see this. I simply have just turned on the TV and watched him play, which has not been very impressive.

  • ab4sure

    Your right I am not saying anything new.. I am just ignoring you redundant comments and responding to your points. Your making the same old comments. Actually i would never call you not knowledgeable.. i have read your posts before.. I thought you would say no one because it is easy to research whether someone has those stats. and therefore I would have responded that LO is valuable and much needed which is true), but perhaps you knew that and therefore didn’t respond. I don’t know. Some stats don’t lie and any player who averages what LO avgs. is much more than a DECENT PLAYER.

    With LO you asked the wrong question. The question isn’t did LO fail as a 2nd Option?? the question is what role is LO best at?? I did answer that question. No need for me to be redundant there.

    As far as comparing Magic and LO. Even the most ignorant Laker fan would never equate Magic and Lo in value. To suggest so no doubt indicates you wanted to just twist my point.

    Shaq doesn’t earn bonus points in the heat ship. His value to the laker ship was much much more than to the heat ship. With regards to Wade, this is not about earning points but giving a guy who just had knee and shoulder surgery who came back early this yr. the benefit of the doubt. I think P. Riley has more info on this subject than you. Don’t you think???

    Again.. DISTORTION OF MY WORDS.. NEVER SAID WADE WAS THE SOLE REASON.. funny you claim not to distort and then you distort again.
    Kobe is the leader he is not the sole leader…

    Comparing kobe and wade position presently is really not looking at things fairly… Why don’t you send one big man(gasol or bynum)and a good bench player like either farmar or sasha… then it would be fair. Your comparing apples and oranges.. I can’t even believe you would even suggest that.

    Suggestion… when you want to argue a point try taking or thinking the position of the other side and then try to make a case. What you do is think what you believe in and argue for your side. That leads to the twisting of my points to bolster your viewpoint… Also don’t forget Less is More.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28562 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You can imply that LO is above average player all you want and use his stats of one year to state your case, however your high opionion of him is very debatable because LO is so very inconsistent (his inconsistency can’t be denied). There are some games where LO does very well such as last night where he got 19/12/3 but then against Dallas he only got 6/10/1 in 48 minutes. You can say that he had to guard Nowitski all you want but he didn’t do anything to make Dirk play defense, which is probably why Dirt had the energy at the end of the game to start making his shots.

    With the arrival of Gasol, LO’s play and numbers have increased but how come it took another player to make him better? How come LO doesn’t put up the high numbers on a consistent basis? With his athletic ability and skill, LO should be averaging between 15 and 20 points and between 10 and 15 boards EVERY game. He’s a consistent rebounder, but when it comes to putting up points, he’s just too inconsistent and I call inconsistent players “decent. Above average players are much more consistent.

    I don’t feel I asked the wrong question about LO at all. LO was the center-piece in the Shaq trade and as that center piece he was brought in to be the second option behind Kobe (Kobe’s Scottie Pippen if you will). Unfortunately, because LO’s inconsistency, which has been proven by his play over the last 4 years, and because he lacks aggression on the offensive end, LO has failed as the Lakers second option. Becuase he failed as the second option, your question of “what role is LO best at??” has been answered. He’s best as a third or fourth option, which to me is the M.O. of a “decent” player.

    I’m not twisting any point with regards to your comments about LO and Magic. If you knew Magic never averaged 15/10/4, then why did you suggest he did? This still makes no sense to me because based on the 15/10/4, that you claimed Magic to have averaged, you attempted to lift LO to similar status in that if Magic averaged these same numbers and LO averaged these same numbers, then LO can’t be just a “decent” player becuase that would be me calling Magic just a “decent” player. You went on to call LO a facilitator like Magic, which I obviously disgreed with.

    I think Shaq was just as valuable to the Heat championship as he was to the Lakers championships. When the Heat went to the finals, I don’t think Shaq was out of his prime. As a matter of fact, when Shaq went to the Heat, he made them instant contenders and led them to their championship. Wade may have gotten the numbers and the finals MV, but without Shaq, the Heat would NEVER have won their title, just like the Lakers would not have. Can you imagine if Shaq wins another title in Phoenix, which I hope doesn’t happen? If that happens, then there will be no denial that Shaq would be the reason for that title.

    You just repeated yourself. Wade JUST had surgery? I don’t think the basketball off-season JUST happend. Give up on that argument.

    Kobe is the sole leader of the Lakers, however he now has a more experience and talented team. It is Kobe’s team (Buss handed him the franchise when he traded Shaq). Currently Kobe is the Lakers franchise player, just like Wade is the Heat’s franchise player. You can argue that Fish is also a leader in the locker room, but in the locker room AND on the court, Kobe is the sole leader, which is evident in what Kobe has done when he has taken over the last 2 games.

    I did in fact compare apples to apples because the original discussion was the comparison of the Lakers 2004/2005 roster to Miami’s present day roster (now you’re the one distorting facts). Gasol, Bynum, Farmar were not on the 04/05 Laker roster and Sasha, back in 04/05 wasn’t what he is now. On the Lakers 04/05 team, there were 4 guys that averaged double figure points (Kobe with 27.6, Caron, 15.5, Odom, 15.2 and Chuck Atkins 13.6). Currently Miami also has 4 guys averaging double digit points (Wade 24.5, Marion 17.0, Ricky Davis 13.1 and Haslem with 11.9), so Wade’s team isn’t that far behind from the Lakers, which is why I stated that if Wade had stepped up and been prepared to play this season, his team would have won more than 11 games.

    To further prove my point that Wade did not come in prepared to be the sole-leader, in 2004/05 Kobe picked up his scoring to 27.6, up from 24.0 in the 03/04 season. Wade on the other hand has dropped to 24.5, down from the 27.2 he averaged last year, but according to you, he JUST had surgery.

    RECOMMENDATION: Try to be more specific in your responses and don’t leave them so open ended, which I know you like to do so you can can argue the counter point, no matter what anybody’s response to you is. Also, don’t deviate so much from the original topic at hand. I see you like to do this so you can make a point regarding something completely different than the original topic in hopes that the person you are conversing with, and readers, will forget the original topic at hand.

  • Phant0M

    Just let it go

    JEEZ
    u know u care about the internet too much
    if u bring up such an old topic
    and write that much..

    let it GO.

  • ab4sure

    Use LO stats of every yr.. go ahead. … as far as him numbers and Magic… i was going with today players this yr. I have to explain everything to you… am i talking to a child???

    Do a poll on lakernation.. asking if LO and Magic are equal… no one will say yes.. and your saying to me that i would.. PLEASE THINK WITH COMMON SENSE..

    this was your statement”now that Wade is the sole leader of the team, he now has to prove how good he really is, exactly like Kobe has to. Sounds like present tense to me that you wanted to compare wade and kobe presently… if you want to go back to kobe’s team of 34 wins.. then we can compare somewhat. but then again their are two core players compared to three.. but it is closer..

    Point production down for Wade not just because of wade but also he draws so much attention now without shooters like kapono and posey.

    Your the one all over the map. I just said you have to consider other factors in the equation other than your bias viewpoint. It is obvious you didn’t take my advice at all but you know I wasn’t surprized nor offended… LOL

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28580 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I feel like I’m the one talking to a child because you’re the one not being clear. You’re not communicating well at all. What does this mean, “as far as him (LO) numbers and Magic… i was going with today players this yr.”

    I don’t understand why you referenced Magic when we were discussing LO’s numbers. You never made it clear why you said that Magic also averaged 15/10/4, when he didn’t. Your obviously trying to make some correlation between the two. What the correlation is, I have no idea and you never made it clear. The only correlation that I found is when you called Magic a faciliator and not the first option. I think sensible Laker fans would disagree that Magic was the first option because he was the first guy that would set up the offense. Magic may have not been the first scoring option but he defitely was the first option to setup the offense. LO doesn’t do that for the Lakers.

    I did say this statement, ”now that Wade is the sole leader of the team, he now has to prove how good he really is, exactly like Kobe has to.” And you replied with:

    “basically losing your entire championship team doesn’t help either.”

    And I replied with:

    “You know what, Kobe had the same situation, when the Lakers traded Shaq, Rick Fox and did not resign Horry or Fisher, etc, Kobe basically lost his entire team too (much of that is Kobe’s fault, as you and I both know).”

    Going into the 04/05 season, Kobe lost his championship team just like Wade did going into this season. My point was that Wade this year, has not stepped up and assumed a leadership role. The Heat’s record clearly shows this. Kobe on the other hand did step up in the in the 04/05 season. Although the Lakers did not make the playoffs that year, with Kobe stepping up, the Lakers at least managed to win over 30 games.

    You like talking about the “core” players and you’re right, Kobe had two core players and Wade has one. However, I provided you information that showed that the Lakers of 04/05 had 4 players that averaged double digits points and the Heat have 4 players that are currently averaging double digit points. So the two teams are not that far off from each other but yet their records are so drastically different. I am saying that if Wade had come better prepared in the season and came to play every night, then the Heat would have a better record, maybe similar to the Lakers of 04/05, so they could have had a shot at the playoffs in the east. Unforunately, now that the Heat do have such an awful record, I see an unmotivated Wade playing. By the way, other than excuses, you have yet to demonstrate how Wade has stepped up this year.

    I see that you like to position the person you are talking with as being confused and “all over the map” (another self defense mechanism, you have a lot of those). I don’t know if this is to enhance your ego or make anyone reading this think that you are the sensible one (probably both). However, I have responded to your comments and clear as day, like I just did right now and I have provided some very good points You’re the one who makes confusing, open ended comments such as the odd correlation between LO and Magic and you’re inability to show how Wade has stepped up this year. Maybe next year Wade will step up and assume leadership of his team.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28580 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I feel like I’m the one talking to a child because you’re the one not being clear. You’re not communicating well at all. What does this mean, “as far as him (LO) numbers and Magic… i was going with today players this yr.”

    I don’t understand why you referenced Magic when we were discussing LO’s numbers. You never made it clear why you said that Magic also averaged 15/10/4, when he didn’t. Your obviously trying to make some correlation between the two. What the correlation is, I have no idea and you never made it clear. The only correlation that I found is when you called Magic a faciliator and not the first option. I think sensible Laker fans would disagree with you. Magic WAS the first option because he was the first guy that would set up the offense. Magic may have not been the first scoring option but he defitely was the first option to setup the offense. LO doesn’t do that for the Lakers.

    I did say this statement, ”now that Wade is the sole leader of the team, he now has to prove how good he really is, exactly like Kobe has to.” And you replied with:

    “basically losing your entire championship team doesn’t help either.”

    And I replied with:

    “You know what, Kobe had the same situation, when the Lakers traded Shaq, Rick Fox and did not resign Horry or Fisher, etc, Kobe basically lost his entire team too (much of that is Kobe’s fault, as you and I both know).”

    Going into the 04/05 season, Kobe lost his championship team just like Wade did going into this season. My point was that Wade this year, has not stepped up and assumed a leadership role. The Heat’s record clearly shows this. Kobe on the other hand did step up in the in the 04/05 season. Although the Lakers did not make the playoffs that year, with Kobe stepping up, the Lakers at least managed to win over 30 games.

    You like talking about the “core” players and you’re right, Kobe had two core players and Wade has one. However, I provided you information that showed that the Lakers of 04/05 had 4 players that averaged double digits points and the Heat have 4 players that are currently averaging double digit points. So the two teams are not that far off from each other but yet their records are so drastically different. I am saying that if Wade had come better prepared in the season and came to play every night, then the Heat would have a better record, maybe similar to the Lakers of 04/05, so they could have had a shot at the playoffs in the east. Unforunately, now that the Heat do have such an awful record, I see an unmotivated Wade playing. By the way, other than excuses, you have yet to demonstrate how Wade has stepped up this year.

    I see that you like to position the person you are talking with as being confused and “all over the map” (another self defense mechanism, you have a lot of those). I don’t know if this is to enhance your ego or make anyone reading this think that you are the sensible one (probably both). However, I have responded to your comments and clear as day, like I just did right now and I have provided some very good points You’re the one who makes confusing, open ended comments such as the odd correlation between LO and Magic and you’re inability to show how Wade has stepped up this year. Maybe next year Wade will step up and assume leadership of his team.

  • ab4sure

    You rehash things we already went over and get anal over these issues. Your like a mouse going around and around on his wheel. Yeah Kobe stepped up and led the lakers to 34 games with LO and Butler helping him. Three core players should be good for 34 games. Remember the heat lost basically there whole team they didn’t get anything for them. No butler no LO… nothing….The lost posey, payton, Shaq, zo, …. no comparison…. try alittle harder … i am sure you will..

    Glad to know that you understand the true condition of D. Wade. You know more than his coach and doctor… and don’t forget the physical therapist… Who would no better YOu or P. Riley? I know you won’t answer that. You remind me of the drunken fan in the stands who assumes they know it all.

    Btw.. you don’t earn points for the most words… just earn the Pathetic Essay of the Day.

  • ab4sure

    Kobe lost entire team but at least the lakers got something for Shaq. Wade didn’t get anyone, the only one they got was Marion and he just joined them.

  • ab4sure

    Wade 25/4/7.. on 47%shooting
    kobe 28/6/5 .. on 46%

    Looks like they are both having good years in their stats. Numbers don’t lie.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28615 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I’m not getting anal over anything. You’re the one assuming I am getting upset. The fact remains, you consistenly refuse to answer many questions I ask you such as the one about LO having failed as the Laker second option and my other questions of why you referenced Magic when we discussed LO’s performance and why you claimed that Magic averaged 15/10/4. The fact that you haven’t answered any of these indicates to me that you don’t want to admit that you’re wrong. As usual you never clarify anything.

    Now who’s the one repeating himself. Wade injured. You don’t understand his condition, you’re not his doctor, you’re not Riley, whah, whah, whah. How many times can YOU say this? I said earlier that I never claimed to be Wade’s doctor. All I said is that I watch TV and see Wade play, and it has not been up to par this year. It’s not rocket science to turn on the TV and see Wade’s performance, or lack thereof.

    BTW: You keep attacking my “wordiness”, (who’s really the mouse in a wheel here) but the reason for my detailed responses, is because I like to be clear. I don’t want to have my responses open ended for multiple interpretations like you often do. You need to learn to be more clear in your responses, and you have failed to do this.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28616 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I’d rather have Marion than LO but that’s just my opinion but I’ll give you the Caron, because he played well in 04/05 having matched his rookie year stats.

    Don’t forget though Kobe also lost Robery Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Karl Malone, Gary Payton (3 of these guys where on back to back to back championship Laker squads and the other 2 are hall of famers). I think that’s much a bigger loss than losing Kapono, Posey, Payton and Walker.

  • DingleBerry

    [Comment ID #28624 Will Be Quoted Here]

    arn’t you both gay lovers? kiss and make-up already!!!

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28621 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Ooh some REAL data (do my eyes decieve me). Are you sure you’re not making these up (you’re not, I checked).

    BTW: Wade’s numbers are down from last year. I’m sure the off season surgery that he had last year has something to do with that right. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll remind me.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28627 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Why ya have to diss dwade? He is a great player. Give him his props and move on. People hate on LBJ and dwade and their both great players. Don’t understand the hating. Take a cue from Derek Fisher and respect all laker opponents and players.

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #28634 Will Be Quoted Here]

    He won’t take a cue….he has no clue. Be real careful…you might get a term paper for a response…LOL

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28637 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Nah I don’t have to worry. These guys remind me of kids who were debaters in high school who never played. They talk all about stats and players and want to show you that they know something about the game even if they never played. They just love to talk and talk. What is funny they would argue things they didn’t know anything about just to practice their verbal skills. Their great debaters with facts and figures but they really didn’t understand how basketball is played.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28638 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I never disregarded Wade’s play or said that he “sucks”, because I know he’s a very good player. I have been saying that Wade has had a down year, which is evident in his play and his team’s record. Wade, like Kobe, will still have to prove that he can lead a team and make them a contender.

    AB4Sure apparently doesn’t like to have each of his comments responded to and I don’t like to cherry pick which comments of his to reply to. When I’m a having conversation with a person, I like to respond to all of a person’s comments. I guess having an intellectual conversation is beyond the means of many people here.

    You’re assumption of me having never played is incorrect as I did play in college, although we were lousy, so I do understand and appreciate how the game was played.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28645 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Dude I have read your posts and you disrespected dwade. You called the guy lazi. I luv Shaq and followed him to Miami. I have watched him his whole career but the guy is done. You can almost put a fork in him. I still luv him. I really starting watching dwade since the Shaq trade and you have to respect the player. He is an Olympian with a Championship trophy. He was the mvp of that heat team. Do you even know what makes a great player? I don’t think you do. Let me ask you this one question. All great players score alot of points, but what one statistic really separates the great scores from the great players? I wonder if you know this one.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #28659 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I still say that Wade has been lazy this year. AB4Sure pointed that his offensive numbers are similar to Kobe’s of this year but Wade’s numbers are down and his turovers are up (last I checked Wade led the league in turnovers this season) when compared to last year. In addition, he has also been poor defensively, which is why his steals are down and even his blocked shots are down (no I’m not saying Wade is a premier shot blocker, but they are down). As you know Kobe has made more of an emphasis on defense this year, which is why I think he will win the MVP.

    As for what “separates the great scores from great players. I think you are asking what separates great SCORERS from great players? I think this is a subjective question because in my opinion there is now ONE stat that defines a “great” player. IMO, points scored, assists, ability to get to the free throw line, consistency and a low turnover ratio defines a great player as well as a players defensive ability. Most great players are usually great defensive players as well.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28668 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Thats your opinion about dwade being lazy. Keep it. It is wrong. You give me many answers but none are right. The most important statistic is field goal percentage. If a player has a good fg% they make the right decision on when to pass and when to shoot. I am not talking about centers becuz they play close to the basket. I had to put that in becuz i knew how you responded to other posts here. You try to manipulate the conversation.

    Look at Michael Jordan. His field goal percentage has been at or around 50%. He knew when to pass and when to shoot. Kobe is learning the same thing and now he will be MVP becuz of it. His field goal percentage is climbing now thanks to more talent around him like Gasol.

    DWade scoring three less but other stats stay the same. So is Kobe. He is scoring three less. That doesn’t mean kobe is playing lazy, but that he is involving others. Wade doesn’t have players like kobe around him. He is still shooting 47%. He has more turnovers because he has to create more and has no help.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28671 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Wait a sec, you can’t say there is ONE stat that makes a great player (i.e. field goal percentage) and exclude players that play the center position from this stat. That one stat is totally your subjective opinion (and I like how you put your own rule behind it, “centers aren’t included”). Some of the greatest players to ever play the game were centers. If this is the case what in your opinion makes a great center? Also, if you’re going to exclude centers, then you might as well exclude Power Forwards because they too play closer to the basket.

    Furthermore, for his career Allen Iverson shoots .424% from the field. Are you saying he’s not a great player? Rick Barry, another great player, shot .449% for his career, is he not a great player? Not to get even older, Bob Cousy, a guy that was on the Celtic teams of the 50′s and 60′s and was a 13 time all-star and two time MVP shot a mere .375 for his career. Lastly, the great Laker Elgin Baylor for his career shot .431. You can’t tell me these player are not great players because they shot a low field goal percentage.

  • LEADERFISH

    For the sake of the argument i excluded centers. I can’t believe you cried about centers not including. This is what you do on your posts. We are talking about present day players. Iversen a great competitor but he ruins team chemistry by shooting way too much. You analyze too much for your own good. I guess anal is the word used before.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28706 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You’re an f’n joke. If you’re going to ask a general question about what separates great scorers from great players and make a blanket statement like, “The most important statistic is field goal percentage”, then that statement is going to apply to ALL players. You can’t just say field goal percentage makes a “great player” but only for certain players. Evidently you like to apply your own convenient rules to your statements.

    Since when were we talking about PRESENT day players? All you said was, “The most important statistic is field goal percentage”, with no mention to this stat only applying to present day players. LOL, I didn’t know that a high field goal percentage is a mark of a great player for ONLY present day players, LOL (do you know how ridiculous your making yourself sound?)

    As a baketball fan, when someone makes a general statement like the one you made, I’m gonna include ALL players (past and present) because there are many past players that are greater then current ones, such as Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson of the NY Knicks. I guess for your convenience you only want to talk about present day players because that’s probably all you know. Hate to break it to you, the NBA has been around since the late 40′s, so there were great players before Jordan and Kobe.

    Speaking of Wilt, I guess you won’t count Wilt (the person I think is the greatest NBA player) towards your list of great players because he was a center and had a high field goal percentage (with your rules we can’t count his field goal percentage because he played “too close” to the basket). You know Wilt Chamberlain right, the guy who was named MVP of the league, all-star MVP, named to the NBA 1st team, all in his rookie year (he was also rookie of the year). Mind you, he also averaged 50 points a game in the 61/62 season and for his career averaged over 30 points and over 20 boards a game.

    I also like how you conveniently never anwered my questions. You’re an f’n retard (I guess “retard” is the word we’re going to apply to you moving forward). I highly recommend that you don’t stop from replying because you’re probably going to make another retard-like statement.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28706 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You’re an f’n joke. If you’re going to ask a general question about what separates great scorers from great players and make a blanket statement like, “The most important statistic is field goal percentage”, then that statement is going to apply to ALL players. You can’t just say field goal percentage makes a “great player” but only for certain players. Evidently you like to apply your own convenient rules to your statements.

    Since when were we talking about PRESENT day players? All you said was, “The most important statistic is field goal percentage”, with no mention to this stat only applying to present day players. LOL, I didn’t know that a high field goal percentage is a mark of a great player for ONLY present day players, LOL (do you know how ridiculous your making yourself sound?)

    As a baketball fan, when someone makes a general statement like the one you made, I’m gonna include ALL players (past and present) because there are many past players that are greater then current ones, such as Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson of the NY Knicks. I guess for your convenience you only want to talk about present day players because that’s probably all you know. Hate to break it to you, the NBA has been around since the late 40’s, so there were great players before Jordan and Kobe.

    Speaking of Wilt, I guess you won’t count Wilt (the person I think is the greatest NBA player) towards your list of great players because he was a center and had a high field goal percentage (with your rules we can’t count his field goal percentage because he played “too close” to the basket). You know Wilt Chamberlain right, the guy who was named MVP of the league, all-star MVP, named to the NBA 1st team, all in his rookie year (he was also rookie of the year). Mind you, he also averaged 50 points a game in the 61/62 season and for his career averaged over 30 points and over 20 boards a game.

    I also like how you conveniently never anwered my questions. You’re an f’n retard (I guess “retard” is the word we’re going to apply to you moving forward). I highly recommend that you stop replying because you’re probably going to make another retard-like statement.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28715 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I asked for one statistic you give me five. Good way to cover your base but you missed on all five. Instead of trying to cya in statements by giving multiple answers and asking five questions in return why can’t you answer the question as it was stated. I didn’t ask who was a great player I asked what statistic makes a great player. Like in your previous posts you avoid and shoot several other question not pertaining to the statistic. If people are going to take you seriously you have to take there question seriously and not avoid and have a redass in return. Your like the redass refs Phil Jackson referred too. You get bothered when your wrong and you will stick by your opinion and not admit when you are wrong. Dwade is not a lazi player and to call Lamar Odom just a decent player with the other posts makes you just a redass. A stubborn Redass.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28749 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I completely understood what you asked and my response was:

    I think this is a subjective question because in my opinion there is now ONE stat that defines a “great” player. IMO, points scored, assists, ability to get to the free throw line, consistency and a low turnover ratio defines a great player as well as a players defensive ability. Most great players are usually great defensive players as well.

    How does my answer not to pertain to your question? To YOU there may be one stat that defines a great player but to rest of the word there isn’t ONE all mighty stat that makes a great player (the rest of the world is smarter than that)

    I also proved YOU WRONG when you said that field goal percentage is the all mighty stat when I supplied you with 3 hall of fame players (rick barry, bob cousy, elgin baylor) and one future hall of famer (Allen Iverson) who are all great players even though they all have a low field goal percentage (and none of these guys play center either). If you can’t see the greatness of the players I mentioned, then you don’t know sh*t about basketball. Why don’t you admit that there is NO ONE STAT that defines a great player? It’s a combination of good stats (multiple good stats), consistency and accomplishments.

    If you want to go back to Wade, he still has a not a great year and LO only started playing consistently well when Gasol arrived. How many people have b*tched about the play of LO until recently? I think LO has all the tools to be an all-star but for some reason he wasn’t consistent until Gasol arrived. If LO is making the kind of money that he is (high pay is usually the mark of a good player), then he should be good enough to play well EVERY night (consistently), regardless of who is teammates are. Truly good players play consistenly well, every night.

    In all honesty, you made yourself look really bad when you said there was ONE stat that defines a great player and I provided players that proved your wrong. It’s obvious you don’t know what the traits of a great player are.

  • LEADERFISH

    FG% is a valid argument. Cousy is a reach since he was a pure point guard who didn’t shoot alot. Wow, i thought you might be so anal and go get J. Wooden’s stats. Please why don’t you do that. Find Wooden’s statistics. Making you can see the shooting percentage of Dr. Naismith too why you at it. Don’t be so anal by finding one or two exception who played in a different era.

    Fg% measures efficiency and what made Jordan great and all other great players is that they were efficient. You proved NO ONE wrong. You proved your just a redass who can’t think with commom sense but will try to rebuff an argument by reaching way into the past. You were arguing early in these posts about LO and you didn’t have an answer. Lamar’s statistics are very hard to find but keep your WRONG opinion about Lamar and Wade. Wade has proved you wrong by his past accomplishments. I am glad Shaq played with him.

    You never answer the question in the earlier posts that weren’t from me. Like what makes you a better judge of effort in Wade than P. Riley? I see how you avoid questions you can’t answer and try to find some irrelevant questions to ask that don’t deal with the topic being discussed. That avoidance thinking is very weak.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28845 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Pure point guard! That’s your defense!! Ok, what about Iverson or Elgin Baylor. By your reasoning that FG% is the one all mighty stat that marks a great player, then Iverson or Elgin Baylor are not great players because they have a low FG%, but that would INCORRECT. Elgin Baylor, a man who has his jersey retired by the Lakers, and who helped lead the Lakers to their first championship in L.A (the same year they won 33 games in a row). If you’re not going to agree that Elgin Baylor is a great player, then you’re not a Laker fan.

    Your reasoning is flawed, which I clearly have demonstrated by providing you with great players that have a low field goal percentage.

    According to you, FG% is the ONE stat that marks a great player, if that’s the case then players like Mark West, Dale Davis, etc are “great” players, but of course you said you want to dismiss centers because they play “closer to the rim” as do power forwards (but you’re not dismising them for some reason). If not ALL players can be judged as a great player based on FG%, then FG% is not a good stat to solely base the greatness of a player on. Why you ask? Because it can’t be applied to all players. This is another reason why I say, there is NO one stat that determines a greatness of a player. It’s a combintation of stats (fg% included), consistency throughout the players career and individual (and team) accomplishments. Again, your reasoning is flawed but you’re not admitting it (who’s being the redass now?).

    With regards to LO, I did answer the questions regarding LO. LO’s stats are NOT hard to find. If you want I can provide them for you.

    The earlier argument, which apparently you did not read the entire thread, was not about questioning Wade’s ability as a player in the past. It was about me questioning his agressiveness and determination THIS year.

    I have answered the earlier questions that were not from you. As a I said earlier, I never claimed to be Wade’s doctor, therapist or coach. As a basketball viewer, I turn on the TV and see how a player is playing (just like you do) and I’m saying that Wade has not been aggressive/determined to win this year. I backed up my point by showing that Wade’s numbers are down as well as his defensive numbers are down.

    Contrary to what you think, I have answered the questions that were asked of me and have avoided none. Go back and read (I hope that GED degree will help you pay closer attention to my responses).

  • LEADERFISH

    Best statistic is fg%. Argue your rebounds and assists etc… all you want. Why don’t you go further to Mikan? or like I said Wooden? Your one the two different era examples don’t dispute that fg% is the best statistic. Boy you really have your head up your ass and don’t listen. Mark West.. does he even score? I said players who score. Your a stupid idiot.

    Idiot, Lamar statistics are replicated by few players. That was already established. Get you head out of your ass and stop you rehashing this crap.

    Wade aggressiveness and determination? Damn, you change like the weather. You called him lazi IDIOT. Wade numbers are very similiar to last year. Why do you harp on it? Do you have a psychological problem where you repeat things over and over again? Like Dustin Hoffman in Rainman. Your redundancy proves your an IGNORAMOUS!!!

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28863 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Little boy, we are talking about what makes a great player, and you said the one stat that makes a great player is fg%. I am saying it is a COMBINATION of high stats, consistency and accomplishments. What about this don’t you understand little boy? Do you deny that there are great players that have a low field goal percentage?

    Any why wouldn’t you include Mikan or other past great NBA players when relying on your one measure (fg%) of a great player? Did they not play in the NBA? Did they not play professional basketball.

    I got another one for you, Pistol Pete Maravich (another NBA hall of famer) shot a 44% fg% and averaged 24 points a game. His greatness isn’t based on his fg%. His greatness is based on his scoring ability, his ball handling ability, consistenty, accomplishments and his ability to be a team leader. OH BUT WAIT, he too was a point guard so I guess we can’t apply the one all mighty FG% stat to him. So now, we established we can’t count the all mighty FG% to centers and now point guards. Anybody else??? Any other positions you want to exclude? Should we leave out power forward because they too player close to the rim, much like centers?

    You really don’t know how to be clear, do you? Only f’n retards like you can’t be clear. You’re stupider than I thought. You challenged me and asked what is the one stat that makes a “great player” and you said fg%. So by you’re reasoning any player with a high fg% is a great player. Like I said, if you can’t apply your one might stat fg% stat to ALL players, then its obviously not the ONLY stat to use. I’m being redundant because you’re such a f’n idiot I have to say things over and over again to get them through your thick skull.

    You’re the one who brought up LO again, probably to try to get some sort of upper hand in our discussion, but that can’t even help you. You’re still provign your an an a**. I don’t know why you brought up LO. I didn’t even have that f’n conversation with you. Let me ask you, did LO fail as the Lakers second option?

    I’m sorry that you can’t correlate lack of aggressiveness and determination a result of being lazy (and f’n learn to spell it right idiot, it’s spelled L-A-Z-Y). In playing sports, if you’re not lazy, then you are being the oppositve, aggresse and determined. Last time I checked, people who are lazy are not aggressive and determined. Wade’s numbers are NOT similar to last year. THEY ARE DOWN. If you want proof I’ll show you, just ask.

    I’m “harping” on things again, because you’re f’n bringing them up. If you don’t want me to talk about something that was discussed with someone else in this thread, then don’t bring it up.

    Because you’re a retard and won’t listen, I’ll tell you a second time, you should quit saying anything because you make yourself look like an idiot who doesn’t know anything about basketball, which by the way I’ve already established. It’s obvious you don’t know anything about past players and their greatness and all you know is present day players. You should educate yourself, there was an NBA prior to Jordan.

  • LEADERFISH

    Dude you are a real Pinhead. FG% is the best statistic. I asked you to pick one Pinhead, not five. They are not all equal. What an ignoramous you are!!! Again harping on dwade what an idiot. Wade numbers are very similiar to last year. Damn, you sure have a bias hatred for the guy and can’t let it go. As far as LO, he is not just a “decent player” you try to portray him. Look at his stats dumbf*ck. Wake up and smell the coffee not your own vomit from what you were drinking last night. Why don’t you learn what statistics mean? Just because you give statistics you sure don’t know how to interpret them. Your nothing but a robot without a mind for reasoning in other words your just a dumbf*ck.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28909 Will Be Quoted Here]

    A**hole, I said there is not ONE STAT that marks a great player (I answered your f’n question). There are many. How many f’n times do I have to say this to you? Do you not f’n understand English?

    You can’t say that fg% is the one stat to look at when judging the greatness of a player when I have provided you with multiple players that are all great players (hall of famers) that do not shoot a high fg%. But yet you still won’t let go of your fg% is the one all mighty stat. What a “redass” you are. I guess you’re saying Allen Iverson is not a great player. Wake up and learn something about basketball.

    The only reason Wade was brought up again was because you brought him up again, and commented on what I said. What am I supposed to do? Just look at your replies about my comments and not respond? This year, his scoring is down, his assists are down, his turnovers are up, and his field goal percentage is down. This is fact. I have no reason to “hate” the guy or having any personal biased against him. I am probably one of the more neutral guys on this site because I don’t have a favorite basketball player nor do I have a least favorite player.

    About LO, answer my question, did LO fail as the Lakers second option? You talk about me ignoring questions when I have answered your questions. Why don’t you answer any of mine?

    I know what exactly what stats mean. Unlike you who is willing to determine the greatness of a player based on one stat even though you admit that you can’t use this one stat on all players (i.e. centers and now point guards). If fg% is the best stat to use, then it would be applicable to all players regardless of position and regardless and when they played but you even admitted it is not.

    You are truly one of the dumbest f*cks on this site, you know nothing about basekball, and the fact your name somehow relates to Derek Fisher is an embarrassment to Fisher. Derek Fisher deserves to have more knowledgeable basketball fans than you.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #28901 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I said FG% is the best stat DIM WIT. Not the only stat. Surrounding your team with Iversen will never produce a great team, very good team yes but never a great team DIM WIT. Even the magician Larry Brown new that but he did the best with a guy who shoots way too much.

    Wade’s scoring is down 3 pts. same as kobe dim wit. What kind of excuse are you going to have with that one. He is shooting better than your boy kobe so why even bring that up numskull. What kind of ignoramous logic do you have. Wade is playing on an expansion team basically, and has to do it all. Kobe has also had some highturnover years so go ahead and defend those you piece of sh*t. “Neutral guy”, calling a guy lazy when you have no legit reason is not neutral. It shows a bias in your thinking.

    What kind of anal cavity do you live in? Still on the LO thing? Is Luke Walton a second option dip sh*t? Of course not, he gets you rebounds, assists, and points. Lamar does the same crackpot, he just gives you more of the same. Damn you are so anal about Lamar and Wade I am wondering where is that animosity coming from.

    Best Stat doesn’t mean its the only stat DIP SH*T. Think, you must have been a dropout.

    Derek Fisher respects all players. You should never even talk about the class act that Derek Fisher brings to basketball. You trash basketball players without cause and without facts, just your warped little mind you Pinhead. Now next time come with a centered argument and quit your equivocating. Do you know what that means a$$hole? You never have a direct answer to a direct question. You give five answers. Well, I guess it is a political time and you don’t want to be caught with the wrong answer. Maybe you should change your name to HILLARY. She has many answers to one question. Ok Hillary

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #28922 Will Be Quoted Here]

    No, no, no. Don’t go try and change your words around now, you f*ck. You originally challenged me and said:

    “Do you even know what makes a great player? I don’t think you do. Let me ask you this one question. All great players score alot of points, but what one statistic really separates the great scores from the great players? I wonder if you know this one.”

    There is NOTHING in here asking what is the BEST stat to judge the greatness of a player. You were stating that there is one stat that makes a player great and I have demonstrated that there is no one stat that makesa great player. I answered your challenge and proved that basing the greatness of a player on fg% alone is not a good judgement. Now you’re changing your wording which makes you pathetic.

    Secondly, our discussion was never about how the greatness of a player affects a team. We were talking about what makes a player great, PERIOD, and you said it was fg%. Don’t you change your words a**hole just to try to save face. Answer my question mother f*cker. Do you consider Allen Iverson, who shoots .425% from the field, for his career, a great player? Yes or No?

    If you know anything about mathematics, you will know that having your points down three points, ON AVERAGE, is decent sized drop. Do you realize that Odom is only averaging 1 to 2 points higher since the acquisition of Gasol, but yet people are saying LO is scoring more (which I agree with LO is scoring more and consistenly since Gasol arrived). If you’re saying a 3 point drop is nothing, then you might as well also shun LO’s scoring improvement since the Gasol acquisition.

    With regards to Kobe, it is obvious that Kobe’s output is down because he now doesn’t have to take on the load of scoring because other scoring options have emerged with Bynum, Fisher, Gasol, Sasha, Farmar, etc. He now has a better/experienced team, so he doesn’t need to score as much. If Lebron had a team like the Lakers, his point production would drop too. Learn to compare apples to apples moron.

    Now you’re really pathetic because your hiding behind AB4Sure’s argument that Wade is playing on an “expansion team” (at least GET your own arguement). Do you realize that at the start of this season Wade still had Shaq (although he is on the decline), Alonzo Mourning, Jason Williams, Adonis Haslem, and Antoine Walker – these are five guys who were major contributions to the Heat’s championship team. That doesn’t sound like an expansion team to me.

    You also fail to understand that me and AB4Sure were discussing the Heat’s 07/08 squad compared to the Lakers 04/05 squade when Kobe also lost his teammates from his playoff team of 03/04 (Shaq, Fisher, Horace Grant, Fox, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton). The Lakers of 04/05 went 34-48. I went on to point out that much like the Lakers of 04/05, that had 4 players that averaged double digit points that year (Kobe, LO, Caron, Chucky Atkins), the Heat of 07/08 also have 4 players that are averaging double digit points (Wade, Haslem, Marion and Ricky Davis). If Wade had really stepped up to be the leader of this team, which he is because he is the team’s franchise player, then the Heat would’ve won more than 11 games. Before you start to bring up past conservations that you were not involved in, you should read the entire thread so you can get a better understanding of what we talked about.

    You’re the f’n idiot that brought up LO again, not me. Again, you are bringing up conversation that you were not involved with. I am merely responding to you. LO was the center piece of the Shaq trade and was expected to be the second option behind Kobe. Do you not agree with this? Unfortunately, LO, as the second option, never produced high numbers on a consistent basis and is now thought to be too passive. This is the reason why prior to this year LO was the subject of many trade rumors and this is the reason why people, not just me but other people on this site, say that LO is better as a third or fourth option but to me being a third or fourth option is that of a decent player, not an above average player. Also, you know if Memphis had demanded LO in the Gasol trade, the Lakers would’ve given him up. Furthermore, if you’re going to put LO on the same level as Walton, then you’re proving my point even more that LO is just a decent player. BTW: to show I have no “animosity” towards LO, I even said earlier that I liked LO and I think he brings effort every night and has the tools to be an all-star (again do your research little boy), but he hasn’t shown this productivity a consistent basis, hence why I call him just a decent player. It took the acquisition of Gasol for LO to start playing more consistent. Good players play good every night, regardless of who’s on their team.

    Again, don’t try your words a&&hole and try to save face. You said there was ONE stat that makes a great player and I proved you wrong. You just don’t want to admit you stupid f*ck.

    Obviously, you don’t read what I write. I never trashed Derek Fisher. I know damn well the class act that Derek Fisher, which is why I said that he deserves to have knowledgeable fans (fans that know about the sport and its great history), not bonehead idiot fans like you who know very little.

    I have backed up all my arguments with fact, and you don’t like it that I have destroyed all of your arguments, also with fact. DEAL WITH IT! You keep saying, I don’t answer questions. I answered your stupid question about what one stat that makes a great player. I’ll answer it again, there is NO ONE stat the determines a great player. For some reason, you don’t f*cking understand this. I have answered all of your questions, unlike you were who STILL have not answered one of my questions, because if you do, you know you’re going to admit your wrong. Answer my question, is Allen Iverson, who shoots .425% from the field, for his career, a great player? Yes or No, simple as that?

  • LEADERFISH

    Damn you try to cover your ass what are you afraid of. I asked for one stat you give me five. All of them were wrong Dim Wit. You had five chances and you BLEW IT ALL.

    AI is a great individual player but nothing you want to build a team around. He doesn’t compare with the truly great players numbskull. Put some truth serum in Larry Brown and he would tell you the same Dip Shit. Great players directly affect a team. Basketball is a Team Game get it thru your puny brain. You can love AI all you want but I wouldn’t build a team around him. He would probably be your first pick.

    The same comparison you use for kobe stats Dip shit use for dwade. There are reasons why kobe’s scoring is down but you don’t understand there are reasons dwade are down to. Funny, looks like Riley is making dwade shut it down. And you thought he was just being lazy, what an a$$hole you are. You should be praising him for even being on the court but you bashed him. YOU MUST FEEL LIKE A REAL DIP SH*T NOW, BECAUSE YOU JUST GOT SLAMMED ON THAT ONE. I am sure you will come back with 1. he should have never played if he wasn’t injured or 2. if he was still out there he must have been good enough to give 100%, because I saw with my own eyes. 3. He got crossed over by sasha.. lol 4. another Lamefirst reason to cya.

    Lakers had a very good nucleus in kobe, Lo and Butler and they still won only 34 games. Bad comparison. Heat is an expansion team. Without wade they get dumped by 30 everynight.

    You need to get over this LO and option thing. Your getting very anal about it. YOUR TWISTING WORDS AGAIN. I SAID LO WAS NOT AN OPTION JUST LIKE WALTON IS NOT AN OPTION DIP SH*T. YOU DO THIS TO THE OTHER GUY ALSO. YOU TWIST WORDS. LO SCORES MORE, REBOUNDS MORE, ASSISTS MORE THAN WALTON. HE FACILITATES THE OFFENSE. HE DOES EVERYTHING. HE DOES MORE THAN WALTON. ALL TEAMS NEED PLAYERS LIKE HIM. WHAT AN AS$HOLE YOU ARE. A TOTAL IGNORAMOUS.

    Now I realize what the other guy is saying. You avoid answering directly because you afraid of looking like a fool. Listen, learn to debate in an intellectual way and have some courage. Stop equivocating. You sound like a wimpy politician.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29013 Will Be Quoted Here]

    How am I covering my ass? You’re the one who is changing what you said. God you’re you are so pathetic and you a f’n p*ssy to be changing around what you said! As I keep saying there is no one all mighty stat that marks the greatness of a player and I have proved it. I don’t know why you don’t understand this. What is it that you don’t understand about this?

    In your original challenge to me, you asked me, “Do you even know what makes a great player? I don’t think you do.” and you went on to say that fg% is the one all mighty stat. How can you say that fg% is the “best” stat to use when you have even admitted that this stat can’t be used to judge all all players (remember we can’t count this stat towards centers because they play too close to the rim). If there was just one stat to judge the greatness of a player, then you would be able to judge ALL players by this one stat. Do you understand this?

    Now you’re saying that AI doesn’t compare with the truly great players???? You’re get f’n stupider with every reply. Here some of AI’s accomplishments:

    - Rookie of the Year (1997)
    - NBA Most Valuable Player (2001)
    - 2-time NBA All-Star Game MVP (2001, 2005)
    - 3-time All NBA First Team Selection
    - 3-time All NBA Second Team Selection
    - 9-time NBA All-Star
    - AI’s career average of 27.8 points per contest is third all-time behind only Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain
    - AI’s assists-to-turnovers ratio is actually better than that of some other high scorers such as Lebron James and Kobe Bryant.

    To say AI doesn’t compare with some truly great players is a pathetic statement to say on your part and you continue to demonstrate that you know nothing about basketball. AI is a great player and a great scorer. Am I calling him the best player? No, but he wil end up being one the greatest players to play the game and will end up in the hall of fame. I highly recommend that you learn about some of the past greats of basketball if you really want to a fan of basketball.

    Furthermore we were never talking about building a team around a great player. How come you keep bringing up things that were never discussed in the past to try to prove your point which you are not doing (this is why I call you a p*ssy and YOU ARE)? You only asked me for the “one” stat that makes a great player and I told you there isn’t one. If you’re now going to change your tune and say that leading a team is also a sign of a great player, then you are admitting that fg% is not the only mark of a great player, which goes against what you previously said. You are now admitting that a combination of attributes make a great player. I’m glad you finally see it my way.

    As mentioned Kobe’s stats are down because he now has a team that is more experienced and has more scoring options, unlike the 04/05 season. Notice in the 04/05 season, Kobe picked up his scoring to 27.6 (up from 24.0 in the 03/04 season). Kobe also picked up his scoring average the following year (05/06) to 35.4. Why did Kobe pick up his average? It was because going into the 04/05 season Kobe no longer had Shaq, Malone, Payton, Fox, etc, (like he did the previous year) so Kobe has to step up and be the leader of team and take on the scoring load, which he did as demonstrated by the increase of his scoring output.

    Wade also lost many teammates throughout this year but take notice, Wade did not pick up his scoring load. As a matter of fact, it fell! Wade is the leader of the Miami Heat team. As the leader, he should’ve more aggressive as a scoring option and taken over the scoring load when his team needed it, but he didn’t. Had Wade picked up his scoring average, the Heat would have won more games. The Heat have 11 wins. Do you realize that Atlanta, the #8 team has only 26 wins. Knowing Wade is a great player, I think had he stepped up more, then he could’ve helped the Heat win at least 15 more games.

    It is apparent that you need to learn how to compare apples to apples. When Kobe lost his key teammates, he picked up his scoring average. When Wade lost his teammates, his scoring average went down. What don’t you understand about this idiot? In case you couldn’t tell, I dumbed it down for you.

    No I did not get slammed on Riley “shutting down” Wade. From what I’ve seen of Wade and that Miami Heat team, they shut down their season back in January and if you saw Wade and his teammates play back then, it was obvious that they shut it down. They all quit playing. Now, there is no reason to play Wade, or anybody else on the Heat for that matter, because the Heat want the #1 pick in the draft.

    I have already demonstrated that the Heat going into this season had 6 players from their championship team returning. That does not sound like an expansion team. Expansion teams don’t have 6 players that played on a championship team. Furthermore, like the Lakers of 04/05, the Heat also have 4 players that are averaging double digit points so the Heat of this year and the Laker team of 04/05 are not that different (and if you want me to tell you who else the Lakers had on that 04/05 team, I will. It wasn’t that great of a team). You know the difference between the two teams though, Kobe stepped up and picked up his scoring in 04/05, but this year, Wade did not.

    Back to LO, see you’re obviously trying to revive a discussion me and AB4Sure had and you did not read it thoroughly. I asked AB4Sure, if LO failed as the second option, which LO clearly has. Because LO failed as the Lakers second scoring option it has become evident that LO is more suited as a third or even fourth option, however, in my opinion a third or fourth scoring option is the sign of a decent player. Do you understand? There is no twising of words here. It’s right there in f’n black and white. I’m just hoping that GED degree that you have is helping you comprehend this.

    You keep saying that I “twist” words and avoid answering questions. I have not twisted words in any of my comments. It is apparent you lack the brain capacity to understand anything in the written word. You also lack the brain capacity to understand past discussions that I had with someone else and you lack the brain capacity to come up with with your own arguements. Furthermore I have answered all your questions directly. If you can’t see this, well then I can’t help you because you’re f’n dumb. It is apparent you are an idiot and can understand very little. I swear I’m going to call you George W. Bush because like him, you know very little and can’t understand a thing. Now please be quiet, because you don’t know anything about basketball.

  • LEADERFISH

    The Best Stat Dip Sh*t. Your so obtuse. Do i have to give you the defintion of that one Slow Brain. As far as AI i wouldn’t say he deserved the MVP that year, Shaq did. I know you love the guy but there is no way I want a guy like that jacking up so many shots. Ruins team chemistry, but then you wouldn’t know about that you just like to look up stats, stat boy.

    Kobe increased his scoring because he got to increase his shots. His shooting percentage also went down IGNORAMOUS. How simple is that. Don’t make things too complicated, you are out thinking yourself. Dwade is still shooting at 47% and is fifth in the league in scoring. His numbers are down because he has more attention focused on him. He is also not going to jack up a ton of shots like you know who. You don’t pick up the load by jacking up more shots. He plays the game the right way. Wow you sure don’t understand the basics of basketball. Try taking basketball for dummies.

    P. Riley shut wade down due to injuries. If you think P. Riley would ever shut it down for a draft pic you are sorely mistaken. P. Riley is a competitor and hates to lose. Tell that to past laker players and they will laugh at your face. I wonder if your a “true laker fan” if you don’t know about that. That is another thing you come on this site always questioning people about being a “true laker fan”. That is why most people can’t stand you. You must be the “black sheep” of the laker family.

    You also don’t understand PJ’s philosophy in basketball. The triangle is designed for ball and player movement and to give the best available shot. When that happens, when the lakers run the offense then LO fits perfectly. You get so hung up on options and it makes you look so Anal. You really don’t understand team basketball or the value of a player. Your understanding is as weak as probably your game. And i know you hate to lose even though you have already lost, Right??? Hillary

  • ab4sure

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gIALUrlJAwe3YGxP_wAxCYkJqipQD8VAV7U80

    lakerfirst I think this proves you should not judge someone when you are ignorant of the facts. I am sure you will say the same thing as before. Look at kobe’s pinky. Wade can’t play on a sore knee??? Wade is lazy. He can’t guard Sasha… etc.. etc… If you hold your position on this one, you have lost all credibility.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29046 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Please, last time I checked Wade and the Heat gave up in f’n January. Like I told the other a&&hole, Wade and the Heat gave up in January. This is just formality now. The Heat don’t want to win any games anymore. They want the #1 draft pick.

    Speaking of painful injuries, I thought you said Kobe didn’t have a “painful” injury. Doesn’t he have a pinkie injury that does not hurt him like you said? What are you his doctor or his coach or his therapist? I would like to provide to you an article posted here by our very own Lakernation:
    http://thelakersnation.com/blog/?p=2390

    I mean if Kobe’s injury hurts him when he puts on a shirt or does something at home, you can bet your a&& it hurts him when he plays the game when he gets the ball swiped at when holding it in his right hand oh but you know, you know better than Kobe because after all it doesn’t hurt like you said it didn’t. It’s apparent you’ve never had an injury that requires surgery.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #29039 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Oh you want to go with fg% percentage as BEST stat, I’ll go against you and say fg% is NOT the best stat to use when judging the greatness of a player. If I’m forced to choose ONE stat to determine the greatness of a player, I’m going to choose average points per game for a player’s entire career as the best stat to judge the greatness of a player.

    Before I continue , let me reiterate, there is no one best stat to judge the greatness of a player, but if you want me to pick one stat, I’ll pick average pts per game for a players career. Now let me prove to you that fg% is not the best stat to judge the greatness of a player and that average points per games is better stat. The following link lists the players with the highest fg% in NBA history: http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/careerfgper.htm

    Notice the first top 10 players on this list. Of the ten players with the top fg% in NBA history, only 2 of them are hall of famers (Kareem and McHale) and Shaq will be the third. Now I know you’re going to say something stupid like most of the players are big men. Like I said if you can’t apply a stat to all players, then the stat is obviously not that good.

    Now let me provide with a link that lists the players that averaged the most points per game for their career:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career.html

    Notice the top on this list consists of (in order):
    - Jordan (future hall of famer)
    - Wilt (he’s already in the hall of fame)
    - AI (I know you don’t think he’s a great player but he’s going to be in the hall of fame)
    - Elgin Baylor (already in the hall of fame)
    - Lebron James (you know he’s going to be in the hall of fame)
    - Jerry West (already in the hall of fame)
    - Bob Pettit (already in the hall of fame)
    - Oscar Robertson (already in the hall of fame)
    - Shaq (you know he’s going to be in the hall of fame)
    - George Gervin (already in the hall of fame).

    Players that have averaged high points per game were obviously leaders of their teams and were aggressive offensively which allowed them to score points on a consistent basis. Please feel free to view the rest of the list of players that have highest pts. per game as you will see that most, if not all, are already hall of famers or will be so in the future. Now compare that with the list of remaining players with the highest fg% percentage. I don’t need to say anymore about this. Please feel free to drop the subject.

    Yes, Kobe increased his shots in 04/05. Do you know why? Because he had to carry the scoring load because his team did not have other scoring options, just like Wade had to this year, but unlike Kobe in 04/05, Wade did not do this, this year. Believe me, I know you’re trying to find a way to win this argument, but you’re doing a terrible job at it. Like I said earlier, in 04/05, Kobe took over as the leader of his team by carrying the scoring load, hence why he took more shots. This year, Wade did not.

    Now you’re saying that Wade did not want to “jack up shots” like Kobe. Have you ever thought to yourself, how come Wade did not jack up shots? If his team is an “expansion team” like YOU called them, maybe Wade should’ve taken over the offense, like he can, and shoot more. Perhaps the Heat would’ve won more games, had Wade shot and scored more, but Wade did not do this. Now I’m not saying that Wade can’t take over the scoring load for Miami. What I am saying is that Wade did not do so this, this year! You want me to read basketball for dummies? If you’re team is not producing points, then as the leader and best player on your team, you have to take over the scoring load for your team, to keep them competitive. Obviously you don’t know sh*t about being a leader, especially on a basketball court (or any sport for that matter).

    If Riley has not given up on the season, then why is he going out to college games to scout college players idiot (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-heat-riley&prov=ap&type=lgns)? I know Riley hates to lose, but he’s a realist. He knows his team his team is done this year. He’s told Wade to take the rest of the rest of the season off while he’s goes off to scout college players for the draft.

    You should drop the LO thing and you should stop trying to pretend like you understand the triange offense. Much like Jordan was the first scoring option and Scottie was the second, Kobe is the first option and LO was brought here to be the second option but unfortuntately it didn’t work. LO, with as much talent as he has, is just too damn passive. Bynum had to step up and be the second scoring option at the beginning of the year and now Gasol has to do it now that Bynum is out.

    Listen George, I’ve destroyed your fg% as the one mighty stat to use to determine a great player and then I destroyed your arguemtn that fg% is the “best” stat to use to determine a great player. Much like the Iraq war, admit you’re wrong and stay quiet. W is doing that now. You should follow him as well.

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #29117 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Yeah your right about Kobe’s Pinky. Everytime he runs down the court he grimaces in pain. That knee or i mean Pinky really affects him. When he gets swiped at too he feels the pain. I think he probably feels that pinky when he walks and his shooting percentage is probably gone down since the injury… oh wait his shooting is better since the injury… well JUST DON’T LOOK AT THE FACTS IT WILL RUIN MY BIAS AGAINST WADE… and i think kobe’s Pinky is hurting him in getting assists and rebounds…OH NO .. it is not hurting his assists and rebounds..LETS FORGET THE FACTS AGAIN… I FEEL BETTER NOW THAT I CAN BELIEVE IN MY OWN MIND THAT KOBE’S INJURY IS REALLY AFFECTING HIM..HEY WHO NEEDS A KNEE TO PLAY BASKETBALL… THE PINKY IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT…signed LAKERFIRST.

    You have lost all credibility….

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29134 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Oh I’m sorry if you didn’t see Kobe grimacing in pain last night in the first quarter against Toronto or on Sunday against the Kings. I guess that look of pain isn’t really a look a pain after all. I guess it’s a look of enjoyment and pleasure.

    You’re stating that Kobe’s injury can’t be affecting his play because his high shooting percentage. Oh wait, if Wade’s injury is such a major injury then how come he too is shooting basically the same percentage as Kobe Bryant, like you so astutely pointed out? Interesting, no?

    All this does not change the fact of what I said in my original comment, which you so very much like to overlook:

    “Well now Wade has his opportunity to prove it how good he really is now that he’s by himself (no Shaq). So far Wade hasn’t done much.”

    When the Heat won their title, many people were saying that Wade was better than Kobe. Well now with Shaq gone, Wade still is going to have prove that he can compete and win a title without Shaq, just like Kobe is still having to prove.

  • ab4sure

    Wade is shooting 2% pts. less than last yr. and scoring 3 less pts. Kobe shooting percentage is going up. “Ohh Again let’s not look at the facts, it just doesn’t help with my preconcieved Bias”, signed lakerfirst.

    You have lost all credibility……

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #29125 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Good STAT BOY. Your fifth grade teacher will be proud of you with all the research you have done. Points scored? hmmmmmmmm well STAT BOY if a player shoots 50 times a game and he only scores 35 points a game i would not call that a great game, would you? I would call that very inefficient. You should take Phil Jackson’s Philosophy 101 course on basketball. Efficiency is very important both when judging a team and a player. He knows it you should have known it STAT BOY.

    Kobe took more shots therefore he carried the load? You want to say shooting more is what proves a person is carrying the team. LOL What an IGNORAMUS STAT BOY. No wonder you are so hot for AI and his willingness to shoot everytime he gets the ball. Any player can do that. Basketball should be played the RIGHT WAY. Go back to Philosophy 101 with Phil Jackson. Maybe your fifth grade teacher can encourage you to take that class STAT BOY.

    Yes Riley has waved the white flag the day he was smart enough to allow dwade to completely heal, not before as you suggested. NOT FOR A DRAFT PICK. Riley has too much pride. Are you a “true laker fan”? You probably have a little clipper in you.

    You obviously don’t know what the Triangle offense is about. Tex Winter would be ashamed of you. Are you really sure your a “true laker fan”? The triangle is an equal opportunity offense. When properly run all players have opportunities. LO’s skills work great within this offense when run. The laker organization once a year teachers this offense to the average fan who has little basketball knowledge. You would be a good candidate for this seminar. You will get to see former laker players to. Not a bad deal STAT BOY.

    Now that you have been schooled STAT BOY, I hope you take your lesson to heart.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #29152 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Schooled?? LOL, LOL, LOL. If thinking that makes you feel better, you can go right ahead and think it.

    In reality though, if there is anyone who has been schooled it is your dumba** who still thinks that fg% is the only stat that marks a great player.

    Then when you changed your words and said that fg% is the “BEST” stat (not the only stat), I still killed that argument when I provided a list of the players that have averaged the most pts per game. If you paid close attention to the list with players who have averaged the most pts per game, then you will notice that that list is full of current and future all of famers. Did you overlook this fact?

    If we look at the other list, (the list of players with the highest fg%), then you will notice that of the top 10 players on that list, there are only 2 current hall of famers.

    So, which list has better players? Hmmm? Let me see? Is it the list of players who have averaged the most pts per game or is it the list of players who have the highest fg%? Do you want to take another look? I think Phil Jackson, or any reasonable basketball fan, would agree that the players who have averaged the most points per game are much greater players than those have averaged the highest fg%.

    Which list do YOU think has better players? I guess if you’re going to select players with the highest fg%, your first pick will be Artis Gilmore. But if I’m drafting based on average points per game, my selection will be Michael Jordan.

    I have proved that fg% is not the only stat that marks a great player (like you oringally said it was) by showing you players that are current hall of famers who have shot a poor fg%. I even provided current players who have poor fg% that are future hall of famers. But I guess you would call these players inefficient even though they are currently in the hall of fame or will be going to the hall of fame. I thought the hall of fame is for great players? Don’t only GREAT players go into the hall of fame?

    When you changed your argument and said that fg% is the “best” stat to judge the greatness of a player, I then provided a better stat, avg points per game. Of the top 10 players that have averaged the most points per game, those players are either current hall of famers or are going to be all of famers. Again, don’t only GREAT players go into the hall of fame? I think that’s what the hall of fame is there for? Do you disagree?

    Now don’t get me wrong, I think efficiency is very important but the conversation we are having is about the one/best stat to judge the greatness of a player, and I choose average points per game. Look at the lists that I provided, compare them, which list has better/greater players?

    Yes, Kobe took more shots to carry the load. What I am saying, my idiot friend, is that Kobe, being the leader of the Lakers in 04/05, took it upon himself to step up and carry the offense and get points on the board. This is what great players and the leaders of basketball teams are supposed to do when the team is struggling. Should the great players only shoot 10 times and make only 5 to secure a 50% fg% to make them great, or should they continue to be aggressive and score 30+ points, even if they are shooting say only 40%, to win the game. I’ll let you decide.

    If Riley is not looking for draft picks then why is he out scouting college players? You might want to read the following article so you can learn that Riley is in fact scouting college players who will be high draft picks:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Heat-s-Riley-scouts-Indiana-s-Gordon?urn=nba,70780

    If you STILL don’t buy into the fact that Riley is scouting college players who will be high draft picks, then it is obvious there is a lot of STUPID in you.

    Why are you bringing up the triangle when we are talking about LO. We are not talking about LO’s role in the triangle. LO’s role in the triange has nothing to do with the fact that he didn’t work out as the second option. I know LO has the tools to be an all-star but he lacks aggression and is not a good second or first option. You cannot deny the fact that LO was the center piece in the shaq trade and was brought to the Lakers to be the second option and failed. He is a better third or fourth option which IMO is just a decent player.

    So, answer my question, of the two lists I provided, which list has better/greater players?

  • LEADERFISH

    Twisting, twisting, twisting. Wow you really can’t help but twist words. I didn’t say the ONLY STAT I said the BEST STAT. You really hate getting schooled don’t you? Can’t blame you becuase you really took it on the chin with the question. You also took it on the chin with the Wade and LO argument. The best thing you can do now is pick yourself up and brush yourself off and live to fight another day. There will be other days so don’t worry, but at least save some self respect by not trying to make up a new argument to try to win. Dude, you remind me of a guy who loses and then says double or nothing. Don’t be that guy.

    Great players don’t keep shooting if they shoot 40% for the game. They wouldn’t keep shooting, for one game everyone shoots below 40% but i am not talking about that.

    IF A PLAYER SCORES 35 PTS. ON 50 SHOTS IS THAT GOOD? Of course not therefore pts scored do not Identify a player as a great player. One plus one equal two STAT BOY. As much as you like to rely on stats STAT BOY, they don’t tell the true story. Tell that to PJ. Tell him you think points scored are the true measure of a great player, he would laugh in your face STAT BOY.

    Your right STAT BOY, KOBE did a great effort by trying to shoot all those times and score. For effort Kobe gets an A+ but it wasn’t a smart effort. He could have been more efficient. Just like you STAT BOY, I complement the effort your giving here. I give you an A+ for effort, but it is not a very smart effort which is why you got slammed. Not a pretty site. You will have other chances though STAT BOY so don’t worry.

    Riley is the Gm. You didn’t know that? Of course he is going to scout players. What kind of IGNORAMUS ARE YOU STAT BOY?

    As far as LO is concerned, you just can’t stop talking about him. Did you ever find a player with the balanced stats of LO? The FO did not trade Shaq for LO and say LO you are our 2nd option. In fact, I can guarantee you that PJ did not go up to LO and say you are our 2nd option. I know you don’t know much about the triangle, but it is an equal opportunity offense centered on attacking the weakest point of resistance. There is not a first option. Feel free to research that because you really lack knowledge of what the triangle is all about. Look up Tex Winter and you will find more things on the triangle. Also, STAT BOY, feel free to ask me any questions on the triangle. Glad to help.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #29140 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Go easy on STAT BOY, Give him a chance to redeem himself.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #29140 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Wait a second, I was using AB4Sure logic, if Kobe is shooting a high fg percentage then he can’t be hurt, right. Isn’t that what you insinuated? If Wade is shooting a fg% similar to Kobe, then how is Wade hurt? This is YOUR logic. I am merely applying it.

    It is apparent that you don’t know much about mathematics. Much like I told that other idiot in here, to have an average decrease or increase is pretty difficult, because it’s an average. Even though a drop 3 points doesn’t seem like much, it is. I mean if a 3 point decrease is nothing, then according to you, LO’s increase of 2 to 3 pts per game since Gasol arrived is also nothing.

    Also, if Wade is pretty much shooting the same fg% then he’s apparently shooting less because his points are down. That’s simple math. However, as the leader of the Miami Heat, Wade should know that if his team isn’t going to provide scoring, then he has to pick it up, just like Kobe and Lebron do (and I do hold Wade’s ability pretty high. I just didn’t see any drive this year. I even think I hold Wade in higher regard than you guys do).

    At the end of the day, Wade is going to have an extra long offseason (longer than most players) to properly rehabilitate himself, which he didn’t do last offseason, so when he comes back next year, there should be no excuses pertaining to injuries. As the leader of the Heat, Wade needs to step up and lead his team, regardless of who’s on his team. This means, Wade needs to pick up the scoring when his team needs it and at times this means putting his team on his shoulders and carrying them to victory, much like Kobe and Lebron do. Wade is too good of a player to have his team win only 11 games. Teams with players as good as Wade SHOULD NOT have the worst record in the league and win only 11 games, that is unless that player is lacking drive.

  • LakersFirst

    [Comment ID #29215 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Man, you really are dumb, aren’t you? I’m not even joking anymore, you really are absolutely clueless. You know nothing about basketball. You have got to be one of the dumbest people on this site. What’s even more amazing is that you actually think you are smart and you think you have made valid points. You have not backed up anything you have said with any type of fact, unlike me where I have backed up everything I have said with fact. I mean honestly, I feel sorry for you. It’s really bad! Do you realize you are this dense?

    You keep saying that I am “twisting” words. I am quoting you verbatim, so there is no way to twist anything. You originally asked me, “Do you even know what makes a great player?”, and you said fg% (that was it, nothing more, nothing less). I then provided you with players that are great NBA players that do not have a high fg% percentage (Iverson, Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, Pistol Pete). With the exception of AI, who will be in the hall of fame in the future, all the players I provided are hall of fame players, but you dismissed them. I’ll give you another chance. Do you acknowledge that these players are great players?

    I then answered your question of what is the best stat, and I said if I am forced to choose one, then average points per game, is a better stat that fg%. Do you know what this stat means, because I don’t think you do? The stat, average points per game, means that for the players’ entire career, the player was CONSISTENT and a great scorer, which ultimately made him a great player.

    I then provided you with two lists. The first being, players with the highest fg%. The second was the players who averaged the highest ppg. I don’t think you looked at these lists because you really didn’t comment on them. Let’s first look at the top 11 players who have the highest fg% in the NBA (take note, only 2 of these players are in the hall of fame):

    1) Artis Gilmore 2) Mark West
    2) Shaq 4) Steve Johnson
    5) Darryl Dawkins 6) James Donaldson
    7) Bo Outlaw 8) Jeff Ruland
    9) Kareem 10) Bobby Jones
    11) Kevin McHale

    Let’s now look at the top 11 players who AVERAGED the most ppg.

    1) Jordan 2) Wilt
    3) Allen Iverson 4) Elgin Baylor
    5) LeBron James 6) Jerry West
    7) Bob Pettit 8) Oscar Robertson
    9) Shaq 10) George Gervin
    11) Karl Malone

    Now I ask you (I want you to answer this question), when you compare the two lists, what list has the greater players on it (the one with the highest fg% or the one with the highest ppg)? If you want to keep referencing Phil Jackson, go ahead, what list of players do you think he would choose?

    You’re saying that no great player would continue to shoot if they are shooting poorly. Well, Elgin Baylor, shot only 43% from the field and averaged 27.4 ppg over his career. Is Elgin Baylor a great player? Do you even know who Elgin Baylor is? I want you to answer these questions. You say I ignore your questions, but I don’t, and you answer very few of mine, so I am calling you’re a&& out and telling you to answer them.

    Kobe did have a great effort by trying to carry the scoring burden of his team because that’s what great players do, when the team is struggling. Great players step up and score points! If Kobe had not stepped up and took over the scoring load, I think the Lakers would have lost many more games. Great players also do other things, such as rebound, get assists, show leadership, and are consistent. Remember I’m the one who said there is no best stat that marks a great player (it’s a combination of stats). You’re the one who is saying that the only stat that marks a great player is fg%.

    Like the idiot you are, you don’t even realize that you totally backpedaled on the Riley topic (either that or your trying to hide it). You went from Riley would NEVER shut it down to scout draft picks to of course Riley is going scout players.

    Your first said, “If you think P. Riley would ever shut it down for a draft pic you are sorely mistaken. P. Riley is a competitor and hates to lose.”

    Then I provided you with a link to an article that revealed Riley is in fact attending college games to scout players. Then you said, “Yes Riley has waved the white flag (I thought he’s a competitor and hates to lose) the day he was smart enough to allow dwade to completely heal, not before as you suggested. NOT FOR A DRAFT PICK. Riley has too much pride.”

    Then in the same article I sent you, it says , “Riley revealed plans last week to miss some games to scout players who may be entering this year’s NBA draft, an unusual move but one that the team obviously feels is important in its rebuilding plan.” Note the keywords “NBA draft”. He is scouting collegiate players for the NBA draft, but according to you, Riley has too much pride to do this.

    This is just another example of you are not well-read which makes you dumb. This is also another example of how you refuse to acknowledge you’re wrong, just like you refuse to acknowledge that fg% is not the best stat to judge the greatness of a player (look at the two lists again).

    And yes, I know Riley is the GM as well the head coach, however, GM’s usualy hire scouts to do scouting. For example, the Lakers hired Vlade Divac to be their international scout. GM’s also hire scouts to scout players at the collegiate level. For example, the Lakers made Rudy Tomjanovich a scout after he quit as their head coach. GM’s also send assistant coaches to do the scouting because the head coach needs to manage the progress of the team. However with Riley now focusing on scouting, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NBA SEASON, he has basically put aside coaching, which is fine because his team isn’t going anywhere. But, how often does it happen that the head coach of an NBA team, even though that coach is also the GM, decides to miss games in order to scout collegiate players in the middle of the season? According to the article I provided, it is “an unusual move”.

    Of course the Lakers did not trade Shaq for LO straight up, nor did I ever suggest that. I said LO was the “centerpiece of the trade”. Do you know what a “centerpiece of a trade is? The centerpiece of a trade is the key value that the acquiring team is getting in the trade. Yes, there will be other components in the trade such as draft picks and other players (usually to make contracts match). A real world example is when Kidd and Malik Allen were traded to Dallas in exchange for Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Trenton Hassel, Maurice Ager, Keith Van Horn, a couple of 1st round draft picks and cash. Can you point out the centerpiece of this trade genius? For Dallas the centerpiece was Kidd. For NJ, the centerpiece was Devin Harris. This is very similar to how LO was the centerpiece of the trade for the Lakers and obviously Shaq was the centerpiece of the trade for the Heat.

    Despite what you think, LO was brought here to be the second scoring option behind Kobe. LO was the best player Miami had at the time and was brought here to be the second option behind Kobe. Why do you think most everybody on this site and everyone in the media dogged LO when he wasn’t stepping up and scoring points and being a leader? If you don’t believe me, go believe the rest of the Laker fans (http://lakers.topbuzz.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-7459-postdays-0-postorder-asc.html).

    And for you to say that there is no “first option” on the Lakers is completely ridiculous. Do you watch Laker games? Who is the player on the Lakers expected to take shots and score? That first option’s name is Kobe Bryant. As the first option he sets the table for everyone else. Who is now the second scorer for the Lakers (i.e. the second option). It is now Gasol. To say there is no scoring options is ridiculous and you can’t use the triangle offense to avoid that (that’s dumb).

    It’s is apparent that you are in fact very dense and do not know how to use stats. You’re such an f’n idiot. Because you don’t know how to use facts, I am now convinced that you are probably a high school kid. You absolutely know nothing about basketball and the points you have made have no validity because you’re not backing up anything with facts. All kidding aside, do you realize how dumb you are (I mean it, you are not a smart person)?

  • ab4sure

    [Comment ID #29241 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You just don’t get it. Can’t take it when your wrong. It is a bit pathetic lakerfirst. Wade has a drop of 2 percent in shooting. Do you think his injuries and losing shooters to FA might have hurt??? Geez… Very pathetic… of course.. Kobe has actually had a slight increase in his shooting percentage since the injury. Do you think his pinky is affecting his shot??? Geez… Very pathetic … probably not.. learn to think logically.. please

    You hold Wade in high regard??? lmao ….You have been proven wrong, you thought his injuries… his knee didn’t affect him… Riley knows it does and therefore shut him down for the season. Accept it and go on… you’ve lost credibility by trying to make you seem right.

  • LEADERFISH

    STAT BOY IS TWISTING IN THE WIND. Again you say i said the fg% is the only stat. STAT BOY I said it is the best stat. Please show me where i used the word ONLY. You can’t because it is not there. Therefore since this is your premise what you say falls STAT BOY. Like a house of cards. You have no foundation to your argument. You need to take a speech class because when you want to make a good argument your premise must be correct.

    Which player do you want? The player who shoots 10-20 in a game and scores 25 pts or the player who shoots 13-39 and scores 35 points? Obviously with your obsession with how many points are scored you would choose the chucker. Perhaps that is your style of play and you have a fondness for it, but just tell me which player would you choose?

    Now STAT BOY you are now just a plane LIAR. Riley is not shutting wade down for a draft pick. It is due to injury. Riley would never tank games by shutting it down so the heat will get a higher draft pick. He has too much pride. He is scouting for who he is going to pick in the up coming draft. It is called being a GM. Why wouldn’t he do it? Haven’t you seen Jerry West or Mitch Kupchak at college games? You disgrace your laker fan creditials when you say that. You credibility is shot now you are just shooting blanks. Kind of like the players you admire who just shoot and aren’t productive. Lakerfirst, your making this too easy because you twist, turn, and backtrack on your statements. I don’t feel sorry for you. Your pathetic. IGNORANCE is acceptable but Liars aren’t.

    It is obvious you being dismissive of LO’s value is rooted in not understanding team basketball STAT BOY. Your knowledge of the triangle and the value of LO in it shows your preoccupation with scoring stats STAT BOY. Your starting to look like the people who just want kobe to shoot all the time and forget about the results. The fact that you would copy and paste comments on another site about LO puts you up as a Loser.

    STAT BOY I know you won’t admit your wrong and i don’t expect you to, but at least consider for the future more thinking when you bring your STAT knowledge. Facts without fair and intelligent analysis is actually worse than those with no facts at all. Something to remember don’t you think STAT BOY?

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29250 Will Be Quoted Here]

    If it’s so pathetic, why the do you keep coming back here and discussing this with me? The fact is Wade did not step up this year. All his numbers are down, even though you don’t think it’s a big deal. Wade is the leader and best player on the Miami team (Wade is one the best players in the league). When his team needs productivity, it his responsibility to deliver, just the way Kobe does for the Lakers when his teammates aren’t there and just the same as Lebron does when the Cavs need productivity. And yes, I hold the talents of Wade in the same light as Kobe and Lebron. I know Wade is fantastic player but he needed to step up this year but it didn’t happen.

    I don’t think the fact that Wade lost some teammates to free agency is any excuse for his productivity being down. If the other Heat players aren’t playing up to par, then Wade should step up as the great player he can be. Moreover, Wade didn’t even shoot more this year. If his teammates aren’t playing well, why isn’t he shooting more and trying to get Heat points? Kobe too lost teammates to free agency and trades before the 04/05 season and his productivity increased the next two seasons until his team developed. Back then, Kobe was trying to lead his team to wins; Wade needs to do the same. Wade is too good of a player to not take over games and increase his productivity when his team needs it. As I said before, teams with players like Wade, should never finish with the worst record in the league with just 11 wins. I’m not saying Wade by himself is going to deliver a championship, but what I am saying is, the talent Wade has is enough to carry teams and not end up with the worst record in the league.

    Again, Wade is going to have extra long off-season to rehab any injuries he didn’t rehab last year, so next year there should be no injury excuses with regards to Wade’s play. Wade should not have a better year and be a better team leader.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29257 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Again, you fail to answer any of my questions. Why is this? I called you out and specifically told you to answer my questions. Are you not answering my questions because if you do, you will be admitting you are WRONG! It’s alright little boy, we both know you are wrong.

    Like the idiot that you are, you missed where I acknowledged that you changed your words and asked me what the BEST stat is that marks a great player. And I still proved that fg% is not the “best” stat by providing a better stat, highest average ppg. How did I prove it? By providing 2 lists of players (one list composed of players with the highest fg% in the NBA and the other list composed of players who have averaged the highest ppg). Why don’t you answer my question? Of the two lists of players that I’ve shown you, what list has the greater players? In case you forgot, here they are again;

    Players with the highest fg% in the NBA:
    1. Artis Gilmore 2. Mark West
    3. Shaq 4. Steve Johnson
    5. Darryl Dawkins 6. James Donaldson
    7. Bo Outlaw 8. Jeff Ruland
    9. Kareem 10. Bobby Jones
    11. Kevin McHale

    Players with the highest average ppg in the NBA:
    1. Jordan 2. Wilt
    3. Allen Iverson 4. Elgin Baylor
    5. LeBron James 6. Jerry West
    7. Bob Pettit 8. Oscar Robertson
    9. Shaq 10. George Gervin
    11. Karl Malone

    Which group of players are better players? I have made a valid point (and you know I have), but you’re just too afraid to answer the question because you know you’re wrong.

    Unlike you I’m not too chicken sh*t to answer your question. Which player will I choose? I will choose the player that averages 30+ points every night as the greater player. When you are averaging a ton of points per night, that is called being PRODUCTIVE, you idiot! Great players produce on a consistent basis. This another thing that makes them great (like I’ve stated from the beginner, there is no best stat for that marks a great player, a variety of stats and accomplishments make a great player).

    It is obvious, like the dullard that you are, that you don’t know what the highest average ppg means. Highest average ppg means that for ALL the games the player has been in, that player has consistently averaged a lot of points. Like Jordan, Wilt, AI, Elgin, etc, these players have consistently scored a ton of points throughout their careers. Even though Elgin Baylor only shot 43% from the field, he averaged 27 ppg. As one of the greatest Laker players, I would gladly take him as he is an 11 time all-star, was rookie of the year, is in the hall of fame, and his jersey is retired by the Lakers.

    Riley is shutting down Wade and going off to scout collegiate players because his team is already going to be in the lottery anyways (btw, learn how to spell idiot, the word you wanted to use is “plain” not “plane”, God you’re dumb). The Heat can’t tank anymore, they have the worst record in the league. The Heat don’t care if they win anymore games. With the worst record in the league, the probability of the Heat getting one of the top 4 draft picks is the highest.

    Like I said, I know Riley is the GM, but he is also the head coach and the last time I checked the head coach just doesn’t get up and go scouting in the middle of an NBA season (it is very unusual). Because Riley is doing this, the Heat organization doesn’t care if they win anymore games. Because you are an idiot, you ignored the fact that I told you that GM’s hire scouts to scout players, particular collegiate players. Yes, GM’s will attend college games, but Riley is also the coach of the Heat, so with Riley going off to scout during Heat games, the Heat are apparently willing to sacrifice present day games in order to scout players for next year’s draft. What is it that you don’t understand ABOUT THIS??

    It’s obvious that you are oblivious to the fact that LO has failed as the Laker option. It is also obvious that you know nothing about basketball because you don’t even know what a “centerpiece of a trade” is. Everything you say is making you sound dumber and dumber. You try to make it sound like you are knowledgeable of the triangle but you are not. You make it seem like in the triangle everyone scores equally, but this does not happen. Phil even admits that the Laker starters deviate from the triangle, whereas the Laker subs play within the triangle more consistently.

    All teams in the NBA have first and second scoring options regardless of the offensive strategy. Kobe is the Lakers first scoring option and as the first option he sets the table for the other players. Do you deny this? (I don’t know why I continue to ask you questions, you’re such a p*ssy that you don’t answer them).

    LO was expected to be the Lakers second option, (Kobe’s Scottie Pippen), but it didn’t work out. Why can’t you see this? Bynum stepped up as the Lakers second option but unfortunately he got hurt, so they traded for Gasol who fit in perfectly as the Lakers second option. If you can’t see that LO was thought to be the Lakers second option then maybe the following articles from the LakerNation will:

    http://thelakersnation.com/blog/?p=2263
    Noticed what the author writes “Seemingly uncomfortable as No. 2 man in offense, the forward (LO) has flourished since Gasol’s arrival bumped him to No. 3.

    http://thelakersnation.com/blog/?p=2230
    “Ever since Lamar came to the Lakers there have always been question marks on his game. Arguably one the most talented and versatile forwards in the game, he has been plagued with inconsistency as he was called on to play sidekick to Kobe Bryant. To that end he has been a disappointment, but with the ascension of Andrew Bynum his game began to flourish as our third option.”

    http://thelakersnation.com/blog/?p=2230
    “While he can definitely put up solid numbers as our fourth/third option, at 14 million a year he is going to be very expensive for what he does, especially since his key strengths (rebounding, passing and mismatching) will be sort of a wash with Paul and Bynum on the team.”

    My point in providing you these articles is for you to see and understand that LO was brought here to be a second option. With these articles, I’m not the only one that sees this.

    Idiot, you again have provided no facts (NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NOTHING) and you’re giving me advice about thinking and analysis. That’s funny! You’re a dumb person, who the f*ck are you to give an advice. I mean it you are not smart. You have provided no evidence of any kind to back up your talk, unlike me who repeatedly provides fact with analysis. I should actually be charging you money because I’ve know you’ve learned a lot from me. Take your own advice idiot, when you state your opinion, back it up with the facts, like me.

  • ab4sure

    Its pathetic because you still accept a wrong viewpoint. I came back because that article knocked your argument down and i knew you would still believe wade’s injuries didn’t affect him. It shows your very stubborn and can’t even believe when the facts are right in front of you. THAT’S PATHETIC!!!!

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29333 Will Be Quoted Here]

    Ok, Wade was injured this year, he was injured last year, he was injured in the playoffs of 04/05, and he missed 21 games in his rookie year due to injury. That’s 4 of his 5 years he’s suffered injuries. How long can the injury excuse continue to be used? One thing is for sure, Wade is like glass and seems to break every year.

  • LEADERFISH

    STAT BOY, Your avoidance of the issues is both cowardly and weak. You continue to avoid the tough questions. Did you answer the question which player you would choose? The one with the most points or the one that was more efficient? I didn’t get your answer. Did you find the word ONLY yet? I didn’t get your answer. I don’t think PJ complements kobe when he gets 40 pts. on 12-38 shooting, do you? STAT BOY, we are talking about the best stat. Which stat is most important when measuring a player. When you put points and fg% against each other which is more important? You don’t compare two stats like you do by separating them in a list. You compare them together. Your are in college, right? Go take a speech class it will help you make consistent argument and do better comparisons. Again, your great at copying and pasting but use alittle intelligence. Stay focused. Don’t meander with your mind. Concentrate. Sounds like the words your 5th grade teacher said, right STAT BOY?

    Again your dissing Riley??? You definitely are not a laker fan. Riley will want to win no matter what. He wants to win any game. He would want to beat you in checkers. Why don’t you read alittle bit about Riley in some of the books he has written. You obviously have not read any of them. Coaches don’t scout, but Gm’s do and therefore it is right that he does. You just have some desire to criticize Riley like you did Dwade.

    Again, your understanding a basketball is limited STAT BOY. Team basketball is what the triangle is designed for and although kobe goes off the triangle and does is own thing STAT BOY PJ allows it. Within the triangle and when it is run right LO shows great value not just a “decent player”. How many players in the NBA would call LO a “decent player”? Probably not one but you do just that. Have you found the players in the league who have the stats/numbers that LO has? I never saw your answer on that one either. Your understanding of how the game is suppose to be played is sufficiently lacking. Also, PJ never called LO the second option. You need to stop listening to these small pundits. They distort your thinking STAT BOY.

    Your comments about my mispelled words are true. Just like your stats STAT BOY, your spelling is great. I am sure your 5th grade teacher is smiling right now. Perhaps in the future I should double check my words before i press the submit button. Nawwh, why waste time.

    STAT BOY, let me know what you have learned about the triangle offense and please share alittle bit of what you learned about Riley and what kind of coach he is. I look forward to your comments and glad to be teaching and helping STAT BOY. Don’t thank me either it has been a pleasure.

  • LakersFirst (Change) (Close)

    [Comment ID #29340 Will Be Quoted Here]

    What have I avoided? I’ve answered every one of your f’n questions, you stupid sh*t. You’re just too stupid to realize it.

    I answered your question about what “one” stat marks a great player (you asked me this in your original question). I said there is NO ONE STAT that marks a great player. It is combination of multiple things.

    Then you changed your wording and asked me what is the “best” stat that marks a great player? You said fg% and I proved to you it was not. How did I prove you wrong? By providing hall of fame players that are all GREAT players that have shot a poor fg%. Again, I backed up my answer with FACTS! Here are the players again: Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, AI (not yet in the hall of fame), Pete Maravich, Bob Cousy, even Bob Pettit who averaged 27 ppg (7th on the all time highest ppg in the NBA but didn’t have that great of a fg%).

    I also provided a better stat, highest average ppg. It is a better stat because it can be applied to ALL players, unlike fg% where you even admitted that it can’t be applied to centers because they “play to close to the rim”. Power forwards also play close to the rim. How can fg% be the best stat when you can’t apply to it ALL players? Highest average ppg can be applied to ALL players regardless of position. Great players will consistently score regardless of what position they are playing. With this, I have proved that your thinking is flawed.

    I then provided two lists of players (one list composed of the players with the highest fg% and those player who have averaged the highest ppg) to prove your opinion wrong. FG% is not the best stat.

    AND YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION. What list has the greater players? I’m going to keep asking you this until you f’n answer the question. Here are the lists again:

    Players with the highest fg% in the NBA:
    1. Artis Gilmore
    2. Mark West
    3. Shaq
    4. Steve Johnson
    5. Darryl Dawkins
    6. James Donaldson
    7. Bo Outlaw
    8. Jeff Ruland
    9. Kareem
    10. Bobby Jones
    11. Kevin McHale

    Players with the highest average ppg in the NBA:
    1. Jordan
    2. Wilt
    3. Allen Iverson
    4. Elgin Baylor
    5. LeBron James
    6. Jerry West
    7. Bob Pettit
    8. Oscar Robertson
    9. Shaq
    10. George Gervin
    11. Karl Malone

    Quit being a p*ssy and answer my question? And to say you don’t compare two stats by separating them is wrong. Very wrong! You’re proved you’re not highly educated. In fact, you’re an idiot. One list is composed of players with the highest fg% and the other is composed of players who have averaged the most ppg. We are discussing great players and the best stat to judge them, which list has the greater players?

    I also answered your question about which player I would choose (you’re just too f’n stupid to see it). Again, I would choose the player that AVERAGES the highest ppg as the greater player because they can consistently score points like great players normally do. I’ll even back up my answer, Wilt Chamberlain scored 40 or more points 14 times and his average fg% is not in the top 11 in the NBA. I’m sure Phil didn’t mind when Kobe scored 40 or more points in nine consecutive games while averaging 40.6 ppg for the entire month of February 2003. As a matter of fact, I’m sure all Laker fans didn’t mind that as he helped the team win games like great players are supposed to.

    I’ll answer your other question, what are more important, points or fg%. Points are, as points win games. Last time I checked, having the highest fg% doesn’t win you a game or a championship.

    Again you prove your stupidity with your comments regarding Riley. Riley wants to win championships idiot, not just games here and there! He and the rest of the Heat know they aren’t winning a title this year, so by sending Riley out to scout games (probably the most expensive scout in NBA history), thus causing him to miss NBA games, they are demonstrating that they obviously don’t care if they win anymore games this season. A team that cares about winning games in a season doesn’t send their head coach to scout collegiate players and miss NBA games, even if the head coach is also the GM. That’s why GM’s hire scouts, so they can scout games.

    Great team strategists look beyond winning games. They look to how they can win CHAMPIONSHIPS because that’s what it is all about. A team can go 82-0 but if they don’t win the championship, it means nothing. Riley and the Heat can care less if they win anymore games this season. Riley wants to rebuild his team so they can win championships, similar to the what the Laker organization and what true Laker fans want. We don’t just want to win games, we want to win championships, and you call yourself a Laker fan (you’re an embarrassment of a Laker fan if you don’t know this).

    Didn’t’ I say in my last post that PJ allows the starters, not just Kobe, to play outside of the triangle offense? And Yes, I think other NBA players in the NBA would call LO just a decent player. Has LO ever been all-star? Do good players airball the last second shot (remember LO at the Detroit game last month)? Do good players miss free throws at the end of games that allow the other team to stay in the game (towards the end of the Dallas game, LO missed 3 of his last 4. At one point LO missed two free throws in a row where that could’ve iced the game but thank God for Kobe, Kobe got the offensive board). These are additional reasons why LO is just a decent player. I will say that LO is playing better since the acquisition of Gasol, but why did it take the acquisition of Gasol for LO to start playing consistently? Good players don’t need to rely on other players to play consistent.

    You say that LO was not brought here to be a second option but I destroyed THIS opinion by providing you with multiple sources that say otherwise. You tried to dismiss them by calling them “small pundits”. Here is another link, this time to NBC sports (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22956916/). Note the following quote “And there are two other important cogs. One is Lamar Odom, also only 28, who has never been completely comfortable as the Second Option. Now with Gasol on the floor he can be the Third Option” Note the keywords here “SECOND OPTION” AND “THIRD OPTION”

    And get your sh*t together little boy, I’m beyond college. I’ve graduated and have my Masters. Something you obviously won’t achieve. I have another question you can ask me. Why don’t you ask me “Would you fries with that?” because that’s the only job your meager intelligence can get. Go ahead ask me. Like your other questions I’ll answer it.

    You have not backed up any of your opinions with one shred of fact. Whereas, I have backed all of my opinion with facts. I have even proved your opinions wrong by providing more facts. You have done nothing. Like I said last time, I know you’ve learned a lot from me. Don’t worry, you’ll get my bill of basketball 101 in the mail.

  • LEADERFISH

    STAT BOY, You again avoided the questions. If this is your way to win an argument you already lost your doing it the cowardly way. I won’t bother to repeat the questions it is useless with you STAT BOY.

    STAT BOY, your just asking the wrong question. Which stat is best not which list of players are best. Like I said when you compare the two stats a player’s efficiency is the better stat. A player can score alot of points but if he has to shoot 50 times to get 40 points that is not good. Your argument is stuck and it falls like a house of cards. Your not understanding the question and so you try to find a stat you think will when the argument. When you reach that way you lose. YOU REACH I TEACH!!! LOL you probably have heard that alot on the basketball court. Now STAT BOY, that reminds me of when you said on an earlier post when wade got beat by sasha. Wade reached and sasha teached there. Bad play by Wade and i believe you called that Lazy. That was a simple play and you did not know Why wade blew that. It certainly wasn’t because he was Lazy. Dumb yes Lazy NO. Are you following what I am saying? Just trying to teach you simple basketball.

    Wow!!! you just can’t let go of LO. You continue to call him a “decent player” and still not finding those players with his stats of equal or better. Afraid you might look bad? Come on STAT BOY you can do it. Just look up any rebounders who avg. as much as LO and then go to assists then points. Tell me who has better numbers than LO.

    Feel free to correct all grammar, spelling, and punctuation STAT BOY. I think your 5th grade teacher is watching and she is probably smiling. Well, I think she was a bit disappointed in you when you used the f-word earlier. I am surprized at you STAT BOY. Maybe you need some Life Boy Soap. LOL