Out of Bounds with Jason Riley

I spent a few years of my life in corporate America. I met some great people during that time; but I miss the job like we all miss G6 of the ’08 Finals.

Most of my days started with me waking up and slipping on my work sweater. Am I the only one who had a work sweater? I owned three (all different colors), and rotated them throughout the week. Some of you know exactly what I am talking about; a few of you are even wearing yours right now. My work sweaters screamed I am a 50-year-old trapped in a 20-year-olds body – perfect for the corporate world.

The majority of my professional life was depleted by bouncing in and out of meeting rooms, conference calls and campus coffee shops. I even learned a whole new language – acronym’s like ETA and SLA suddenly didn’t sound like someone mumbling during a seizure. There were three things that got me through that season of life:

  1. An awesome team of co-workers.
  2. A very strict $200/month coffee budget.
  3. Bill Simmons, Marty Burns and every other Mailbag column on earth.

I was like a kid at Neverland Ranch – wait, let me rephrase that – I was like a kid at Disneyland every time I opened my laptop to find a new mailbag had been posted. I remember wishing their mailbag columns were even longer and released every few hours; that seems completely ludicrous now. I am no Bill Simmons (I am convinced he is not human) or Marty Burns, but I hope this mailbag provides you the same relief from work that it always did for me.

Let’s get to it.

[These are all real emails/tweets/messages sent by you guys – sometimes edited for length and/or profanity.]

I get it; people HATE the Kobe/Jordan comparisons. But with an improved Kobe working the post (Kinda like M.J.) and an improved Laker team poised to be competitive for the next couple of years (win a few more rings in addition to his 4), does the comparison conversation change at all?

-Steve

Great question. Short answer: 100% yes. Long answer? Well…

Let’s say the following happens: Kobe brings home another MVP (this season or next) and another Finals’ MVP (this season or next). He avenges his loss (and sub-par performance) by knocking off the Boston Celtics in the Finals (most likely this season). He returns next year, continues to play at an MVP-type level and remains the best player on another championship team – giving him 6 rings (same as MJ) and a second three-peat (same as MJ).

IF (and possibly when) that happens, then we can make the comparison without it being offensive to Jordan’s’ astounding legacy (right now, it’s silly). Even so, every quantifiable category will still lean in M.J.’s direction. There are three measurable ways we can evaluate greatness:

  1. Winning.
  2. Awards.
  3. Numbers.

There are more intangibles than just that, but most of them have a lot to do with things that we can’t necessarily gauge. Let’s see how Jordan and Kobe would historically match up in those three categories (still assuming our first paragraph happens):

Winning:

Jordan has 6 Rings (6-0 in the Finals), won 6 Finals MVP Awards and made the playoffs all 13 years he played in Chicago (missed twice in Washington). Kobe has 6 rings (6-2 in the Finals), won 3 Finals MVP Awards and made the playoffs in all but one of his 14 years in Los Angeles (and counting). Relatively close? Sure. Even so, I would still give Jordan the edge there, especially having never lost on the grandest stage.

Awards:

Jordan was All-NBA First-Team 10 times (6 MVP’s), All-Defensive First-Team 9 times (1 DPOY) and racked up a ridiculous 10 scoring titles. Kobe was All-NBA First-Team 8 times (2 MVP’s), All-Defensive First-Team 7 times (0 DPOY) and has 2 NBA scoring titles. Jordan is +2 on All-NBA First Team Awards, +4 on MVP’s, +2 on All-Defensive Teams’ and a surprising +8 on scoring titles. That gives him +16 in the Awards department – A lead that Kobe won’t be able to make up no matter how well he plays out the remainder of his career.

Numbers:

Just for the hell of it, let’s assume that Kobe puts up 28/5/5/1 on 45% shooting for the next two years. Here’s what that would look like:

SEASON FG% 3PFG% PPG RPG APG SPG TOPG
Jordan 50% 32% 30 6 5 2.5 2.7
Bryant 45% 35% 26 5 5 1.5 2.9


PLAYOFFS FG% 3PFG% PPG RPG APG SPG TOPG
Jordan 48% 33% 33 6 6 2.0 2.5
Bryant 45% 33% 25 5 5 1.5 2.8

.

Advantage: Jordan.

Before you crucify me, this is not a knock on Kobe Bryant. As you said in your question, does Kobe winning a couple more titles and another MVP award change the conversation? Absolutely. Granted, Jordan will always come out on top (I personally think), but Kobe becomes a very worthy comparison – something that nobody else in NBA history has been able to accomplish.

Why the F— hasn’t Kupchak pulled the proverbial trigger on Sasha and/or Luke? Seriously, Sasha didn’t produce in the Finals, he barely produced in the playoffs and he has dwindling minutes thanks to Shannon and Jordan. You said it yourself – Sasha hit an open jumper?!… And Luke? (Relevant side tangent) Before my wife met me she only had limited knowledge of pro basketball because she rarely watched it on TV. After meeting me and getting up to speed with the Lakers, the only comment she makes when Luke touches the ball is “OMG, why do they put him on the floor?!” … ‘Nuff said.

-Raymond

This made me laugh – I think the male equivalent of your wife asking you why Luke is on the floor would be you asking her why Kristen Stewart was cast as Bella in the Twilight series. Can we say that Luke Walton is the Kristen Stewart of the Lakers? I am going to say yes. Any objections? Good. (Did I just reference Twilight in a Lakers’ column? Damn.)

Luke has three years (not including this season) left on his contract where he will make (gulp) $17 million. He can’t shoot the ball consistently from outside. He is too small to bang down low. He spends an awful lot of time in street clothes nursing an array of injuries. His one redeeming quality is that he is a good passer and understands how to employ that in the triangle. Still, only Isaiah Thomas would be brainless enough to donate anything of value to the Lakers’ championship cause in return for Mr. Walton.

Sasha is a different story. He has always been a one-dimensional player – and we were okay with that. In ’08, he was our Steve Kerr. We loved how pesky he was defensively and stood every time he fired one from downtown. We even gave him an alter-ego (The Machine) – that’s how much we loved him. Then the Boston Celtics happened and he still hasn’t mentally recovered.

He commits ridiculous fouls away from the ball, launches contested three’s and spends more time flopping around on his back than Chelsea Handler. His teammates don’t trust him and his opponents can’t stand him. Couple that with the $5.4 million he will make next season, and Sasha has trade leprosy. Mitch couldn’t swap him for Eddy Curry’s abs and a pair of Knicks season tickets. I think we are stuck with a broken machine through ’11.

How many games will the Nets lose before they win one?

-Kris

Do the Nets get to play the Flint Tropics this season? Would Will Ferrell drop 50 on Chris Douglas-Roberts? Maybe. I have honestly never seen a worse basketball team. They run through their offense with the intensity of a Kathleen Turner workout. They will be remembered as the worst team in NBA history. I am almost as certain of that as I am of smoking the guy who asked this question (Kris) in next summers’ Mud-Run.

New Jersey has a few winnable games before the New Year (vs. Charlotte, @ New York, vs. Golden State, vs. Minnesota). If they don’t win any of those games (quite possible), they are looking at heading into 2010 at 0-32. Do I want to see this? Of course I do; we all love a good train wreck, right? That explains why Tyra Banks still has a talk show.

I am going to say the Nets get a win in New York on 12/6 (0-19). If they lose that game, then they won’t win until 12/23 when Minnesota comes to town (0-28). If they lose that game, they won’t win again until they play Macabbi Tel Aviv in an exhibition game during the ’10-11 preseason. If they lose that game, I am moving to New Jersey and going to an open tryout.

I cringe at the sound of hearing “2-time MVP Steve Nash”… The dude is ring-less and finals-less. Kobe got robbed. (Vent completed)

-King

You’re right; it’s crazy to think Nash has more MVP’s than Kobe. I think there are a few factors you have to consider:

  1. The MVP is a regular season award.
  2. It is decided by people in the media, not the people who are part of the game.
  3. It is as much a team award as it is an individual award.

I have to mostly agree with the ’04-05 MVP for Nash. The Suns went from awful (29-53) in ’03-04 to Pacific Division Champs in ’04-05. The only major roster difference? Steve Nash. The ’03-04 Suns had Amare, Marion and Joe Johnson with Marbury running the point. Nash stepped in and suddenly everything clicked. While he only averaged 15/11, he shot 50% from the floor and 43% from downtown – crazy numbers for a 6’4” pass-first point-guard.

Meanwhile, the Lakers were in turmoil during that ’04-05 season. The media world largely blamed Kobe for running Shaq and Phil out of town. Bryant averaged 4+ turnovers a game (career low), a sign that he trusted his teammates like we trust Obama’s economic plan. That whole season felt like the pilot episode of The Beautiful Life – there was no way it was going to end well. The Lakers missed the playoffs (34-48), marking a first in Kobe Bryant’s career.

Kobe could have put up 40/6/6 on 50% shooting and not won the MVP that year. There was no way the media was voting for him; and in all honesty, Steve Nash deserved it.

’05-06 was a different story. Kobe took a lifeless Lakers’ team (Odom, Kwame, Smush, Walton, Mihm) to the playoffs in an extremely loaded western conference. They won 45 games (+11 from ’04-05) – and if anybody remembers pre-season predictions, not one single person in the media picked the Lakers to even scratch .500. Bryant averaged 35/5/5 on 45% shooting – not to mention dropping 81 points against the Raptors and 62 in three quarters against the Mavs.

He made his teammates better. He said all the right things. He had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the league. He exceeded every critic’s expectation. He passed every MVP test except for one – the media bias. He still hadn’t publically recovered from the disaster in Colorado and the departure of Shaq and Phil. For a second season in a row, a group of reporters weren’t going to give Kobe the MVP award, they just weren’t. It was even more of an outright travesty than Duncan beating Kidd in ’02 (and that’s saying something).

Every writer that didn’t vote for Mamba in ’05-06 should be ashamed of themselves. Kobe Bryant was the MVP that season and we all know it. It wasn’t even close.

Will this Kobe vs. Lebron debate ever end? There is no debate on who is better. This is the reality of it: Kobe 4, Lebron 0.

-MambaMVP

I received several different variations of this same statement from a few of you guys. Let’s put the issue to rest, shall we? Everyone wants to know the answer to this. Who is better: Kobe Bryant or Lebron James?

If you look at this question objectively and free from any sort of bias, it seems almost preposterous to even ask the question to begin with. Aside from a handful of clutch performances and a lengthy highlight reel, Lebron James has accomplished very little thus far. If you want to talk strictly about careers, the discussion is asinine (at very best).

Kobe has 4 NBA Titles (Lebron has 0); Kobe has an NBA Finals MVP (Lebron has never won an NBA Finals game); Kobe has 2 NBA Scoring Titles (Lebron has 1); Kobe has more NBA Finals appearances than Lebron has Playoff appearances (6-4); Kobe has been All NBA First-Team 7 times (Lebron 3) and All NBA First-Team Defense 7 times (Lebron 1). I could go on, but I won’t. I think we all see where this is headed. Kobe wins in a rout.

(And for the people who say that 25-year-old Lebron is better than 25-year-old Kobe; let’s not forget that Mr. Bryant had already won three NBA championships by then.)

Now that we have that out of the way, let’s respond to the most common (and most logical) argument from the Lebron is better than Kobe camp:

Kobe may have had more accomplishments in his career, but Lebron is better right now.

Okay, that’s fair. Forget Kobe’s legendary career for a minute. What have you done for me lately? Let’s look at both players last two seasons from every relevant angle:

Individual Accomplishments:

Kobe won an MVP (’07-08), a Finals MVP (’08-09), was All NBA First-Team (twice) and All NBA First-Team Defense (twice). Lebron also won an MVP (’08-09), was All NBA First-Team (twice) and All NBA First-Team Defense (once). In just the last two seasons, Kobe is up a Finals MVP (Lebron has never won a Finals game) and an All NBA First-Team Defense award. That gives Kobe the edge in individual accomplishments.

Team Accomplishments:

This is where it starts to get out of hand for the Lebron camp. Kobe has an NBA Championship (Lebron has 0), two NBA Finals appearances (Lebron has 0) and a 7-1 record in playoff series (Lebron is 3-2). Additionally, the Lakers have a regular season winning percentage of .744 (Cleveland is at .677). It’s not hard to see that Kobe and Lakers win this section over Lebron and the Cavs in a landslide.

By The Numbers:

Kobe (47%, 36%, 27/5/5) vs. Lebron (48%, 33%, 29/7/7). This is the only advantage Lebron has in the debate (and it’s by the slimmest of margins). He has posted slightly better numbers than Kobe over the past couple of seasons. Let’s give that to him and concede the point.

Kobe 2, Lebron 1 | Final. (And it really wasn’t even that close.)

There is only one remaining question the Lebron camp has left to ask: Will Lebron pass up Kobe in the next couple of seasons? Most likely, yes. It’s just too bad for LBJ that Dwyane Wade will still be better than him when he does.

:)

You should get back to work and I should get to bed. Keep the emails/tweets/messages coming (I received way more than I expected); I plan to keep doing these mailbags so I can respond to more of your questions and comments. The SLAM Magazine winner will be announced this week.

Good luck, and good night.

  • http://twitter.com/AceFreshh Freshh

    Agreed with notion that Kobe will forever be chasing Kobe, unless something miraculous manifests these next few seasons.

    To touch on the MVP Subject – MVP does not equal best player. It means most valuable player during the regular season. It’s not about the best individual player alone it’s about the guy who made the biggest difference on one of the best teams.

    My .02

    • http://6thgenaccord.com KING

      First of all thanks for commenting on my rant lol… and to Freshh, if you take Kobe off that team, how many games do you think Odom, Kwame, Smush, Walton, and Mihm win? so who do you think was more vital to their team’s success? hell Kobe had to average 35 just to get them into the playoffs

  • http://twitter.com/AceFreshh Freshh

    Kobe will forever be chasing Jordan*

    • FERN DOG

      Ithink kobe is going to be better than jordan when it is set and done.kobe1

      • Short Dog

        Yeah right. kobe is not chasing anybody. He is running his own race being chased by scrubs like lebron,wade, and anthony.

        • WifelovesLuke

          I hope you two are correct that Kobe WILL be better in the end becuase that means more titles for the Lake Show. Until that day comes….Jordan is king!!!

        • Short Dog

          The Lord is king. Jordan is an All-Star I’ll give you that but thats it. As a Laker fan he will never be the best. Kobe is the best, then magic, and so on. The Bulls suck.

          • JerryWest

            Magic said you are wrong.

          • FERN DOG

            No Magic said shortdogs right.

  • FERN DOG

    Hey fresh are you a bulls fan or what.Hell with mj kobe will over take him and beat him down.kobe1 better than jordan.

    • kslakers

      You don’t have to be a Bulls fan to say that Jordan’s better than Kobe. Even Kobe says so. You know what seals it for me? People like Magic and Bird (2 of the top 6 all time, with their own legacies and egos) say that Jordan is the greatest of all time…

      • FERN DOG

        Who asked you bitch kobe is better than fagget jordan.ksjordan lover useing laker names but still saying shit that mj is better.HELL NO KOBE 1 FUCK MJ BITCH .

    • Short Dog

      Kobe is better than Jordan. I will never say the opposite. Magic was better than Jordan. If magic would’ve kept playing he would of passed Jordans championships. Jordan started winning when Magic retired. Kobe has been #1 since he came in the league. Still is.

      • FERN DOG

        I also believe that if magic would have played more years he would have won more championships.He was only 32 when he retired with 5 championships to his name.Jordan didnt start winning until late in his career.And majic had already retired and bird too.Where was jordan when majic was winning rings for the lakers oh i remember geting beat by the pistons in the playoffs.And when majic was around he played with alot of better teams than jordan when jordan was winning.So there it is.fuck mj.

        • JerryWest

          Magic came to a laker team that was a playoff team with one of the best centers in History if not the Best in Kareem. The year before they had a record of 47-35 and were a playoff team. Jordan came to a Lottery team and it was one of the worst the year before. Even Magic said “theres Michael Jordan thans theres the rest of us” and called him “the greatest athlete in sports history”.

          • Short Dog

            Magic had 5 titles. At the end of the day it’s about championships. magic had 5 and retired at 32. Kobe has 4 and still doing damage. i can’t wait for kobe to pass Jordan and shaq.

          • JerryWest

            Horry has what 7 titles. Is Horry better than Malone who has none? Titles matter but don’t really tell the whole truth.

          • FERN DOG

            Yes it is about winning rings.kobe1

        • JerryWest

          So you think Horry is better than Karl Malone?

          • Short Dog

            Exactly. Why is malone out of the picture because he sucks and never won.

          • JerryWest

            you said “it’s about championships”. You think Malone sucks? What planet are you on?

          • FERN DOG

            Its not about horry or malone stupid.

        • Short Dog

          All I’m saying is that kobe is better than all these players you have mentioned. i’m from the purple and gold planet. Where you from the bulls/cavs/nuggets campaign. or are you a sports caster that likes every team thats on a roll.
          Not me a laker fan till the day i die.

  • JerryWest

    Jerry West already said Lebron has surpassed Kobe Bryant. I think I will side with the Logo.

    • Short Dog

      Lebron? He has not done anything to be known as better than Kobe. Kobe’s not even done yet. Kobe will surpass Jordans records.
      Kobe MVP

      • JerryWest

        Yes Kobe has accomplished alot. He is also older and has played many more years than Lebron. If Lebron had a 27 year old Shaq or a team like the current Lakers he would have won titles by now too.

        • Short Dog

          Jordan without pippen would of not won either. It does take good role players to win. Kobe needed shaq. But as far as lebron being better than kobe i dont think so. Not in this Kobe era.

          • JerryWest

            Shaq was a much more dominant player and more valuable than Pippen. Shaq was the 3time finals mvp. Lebron and kobe is a tougher call. Jerry West thinks right now Lebron has surpassed Kobe and so do I.

          • FERN DOG

            hellno kobe is way better than ledron.

    • FERN DOG

      lebron will never be a kobe .LEBRON to me sucks.

  • kslakers

    You don’t have to be a Bulls fan to say that Jordan’s better than Kobe. Even Kobe says so. You know what seals it for me? People like Magic and Bird (2 of the top 6 all time, with their own legacies and egos) say that Jordan is the greatest of all time.

    • JerryWest

      No Doubt

      • Short Dog

        Why don’t you say Kareems better or Magic? Wilt or somebody else. I’ve been a Laker in good times and bad times. I dont rank out on my team or players. Kobe is the best. Do you remember when Kobe lit jordan up?

        • JerryWest

          Jordan was 39 years old when Kobe had a great game against the wizards. Look back at the tape, Jordan didn’t guard Kobe either. The master wasn’t schooled by the student. The master was just on the other team admiring his pupil.

        • Short Dog

          Thats your opinion. Me as a laker fan Kobe will always be better than jordan or bird etc.

          • JerryWest

            So if Kobe played with the bulls his whole career and Jordan played with the Lakers his whole career you would say Jordan always would be better than Kobe because you are a Laker fan?

        • Short Dog

          Yes. But that’s not the case. As a player I still think Kobe is better. Jordan never scored 81. Kobe has scoring titles championships all of the above. to me Kobe is the better player.

          • JerryWest

            By you saying Yes you are admitting bias on this subject. Jordan would be your best player if he was a laker.

            81 was one game. Jordan has won more scoring titles, titles, mvps both league and finals and also a dpoy award.

      • Short Dog

        So what. it’s lakers first. So you are a lebron fan also. That’s scanless. I only go for the purple and gold. F the rest. i’m sure he has a website. Since kobe has a good team now Kobe is a threat to win every year in the future. Peace jordan.

        • JerryWest

          Of course as a fan its laker first but that doesn’t mean I throw out my brain. Since you think lakers first does that mean you think Michael Cooper is better than Michael Jordan?

          What is the word scanless?

          • FERN DOG

            Jordan sucks.KOBE1.

      • Short Dog

        So what you are saying is the you liked the celtics to win because they aquired allen and garnett. Not me i beleived in this laker team even when we had kwame.
        Kobe is better than jordan. Is kobe the best now? Yes.

        • JerryWest

          Obviously you aren’t talking to me because I never mentioned the celtics at all.

          You didn’t answer my question..

          Since you think lakers first does that mean you think Michael Cooper is better than Michael Jordan?

        • Short Dog

          I think Rambis is better than jordan. You base your loyalty on stats and all that. I base my loyalty on my team-nothing else. Areyou a laker fan now because we have the best team? I hope not.

          • JerryWest

            I see where you are coming from now. All heart no Brain.

        • Short Dog

          I have a brain. This is my team not a school test. Is Jordan better than kobe because you did the math.

  • drive-for-16th

    jerry west took those comments back just to let you know.

    • JerryWest

      Actually he didn’t take those comments back. I listened to both interviews and on the second interview West didn’t take the comments back. He did try to give Kobe alot of Props and saying what a great player he is. West got alot of flack from saying Lebron has surpassed him. Jerry didn’t deserve that and he wanted to appease diehard kobe fans, but he never took it back.

  • PauLAsol

    free rings for sasha and fluke!!!!!

  • FERN DOG

    Istill say and will keep saying that kobe is better than mj.MJ WILL FINISHsecound or third because i still pick majic over mj so KOBE1 MAJIC2 JORDAN3.That s it.And mj did have good role players and pippen was a allstar and to say that shaq was more imporant come on this was one of the best pippen was even voted for the dream team and for to tell me that shaq was more valuable.Bottom fact jordan needed pippen to win and jordan had good role players.SO thats at.

    • JerryWest

      Pippen is a great player but NO WAY more valuable than SHAQ. Did Pippen win any mvp’s in either his 6 finals or league? Shaq had 3 finals mvp’s. Shaq demanded double and triple teams and totally screwed up opposing teams. This allowed all other lakers to get open looks and allowed Kobe space to operate. The offense ran through Shaq likewise the offense ran through MJ not Pippen.

      Magic himself said Jordan is the best, even PJ gave the nod to Jordan over Kobe.

      • Short Dog

        He was PJ’s first star. Ask shaq and he would say kobe is the best.

        • JerryWest

          Shaq wouldn’t say that and even if he did it was because kobe was a teammate at the time. He also said it about Wade and now Lebron. We all know Shaq does this wherever he goes.

          Who knows talent more PJ or Shaq? PJ coached both Kobe and MJ.

      • Short Dog

        Kobe is the best. Go admire jordan and the bulls on their website. As far as lebron goes he is a joke.

  • http://LakersNation Marwan

    Jordan vs Kobe…. Jordan vs Kobe…. Jordan vs Kobe….

    Heres the thing that separates them both right now. Kobe is still playing and Jordan is retired. How about we wait for Kobe to retire which he says will be in another 10 years or so, he wants to play in his 40’s, and then we can compare them after Kobe wins a few more MVP’s and a few more rings. Right now, Jordan accomplished more because he had a longer career than Kobe but wait til they are both done… in the end, I say Kobe but right now, Its Jordan.

    • WifelovesLuke

      Well said, sir!

      • Short Dog

        Marwan be careful with this guy he likes to swing.

  • The Mamba24

    If you think LeBron is better than Kobe, you are out of your mind. WATCH the games not the highlights.

  • http://LakersNation Marwan

    DAMN WATCH THIS, DAMN SHANNON!!!

  • Short Dog

    Kobe is better than Jordan and lebron. Jordan and lebron were/are the NBA’s baby. Kobe is not. Dominque Wilkins was better than Jordan. Fuck the bulls and jordan and the cavs. And the dam celtics.

    • JerryWest

      Wilkins was better than Jordan? If you believe this than you don’t understand the game of basketball.

      • Short Dog

        I’m a Kobe/Laker fan. Never will I say jordans the best because he is not. The jordan band wagon is packed with jordan lovers. Are you a bulls fan? I dont like the bulls or any other team. What’s there to understand that you want to be like all the media and say kobe is not as good as jordan. KOBE IS NOT DONE.
        Kobe is the best. he’s a living legend. You won’t respect him probably until he retires.
        Fuck jordan.

        • JerryWest

          You believe Dominique Wilkins was better than Jordan? Huh?

  • Short Dog

    In dunking-YES. He dunked way better than Jordan. Jordan was the NBA’s baby. Keep loving him I’ll keep ignoring him bacuse its lakers all day. I just want kobe to pass his championships and he will.

    • JerryWest

      Do you have ADD attention deficit disorder? We never talked about dunking. LOL

      • Short Dog

        No i don’t. Are you a homo bulls fan. You keep admiring this guy likes he was your first.

        • JerryWest

          SMH

  • FERN DOG

    Like i said jordan didnt start winning until late in his career.He was 36 years old when he won his 6th ring.You ask me he was already old.Majic was just 32 when he left and retired and had 5 rings to his name.Iguess jordan had to wait until majic and bird would retire so he could start winning championships.He did not beat the celtics when bird was playing. The only player that was beating bird was majic.So there you go and by the way kobe is better than mj.

    • JerryWest

      No Jordan won his titles when both were playing. Remember Jordan won his first against Magic and Bird was still playing. I love the lakers too but don’t throw out your brain. It makes us laker fans seem stupid.

      • Short Dog

        Laker fans admiring jordan is stupid. Throwing your love to chicago is stupid. Saying kobe will never drop jordan is stupid. Shit Kobe is the best player right now and no oen can touch him RIGHT NOW.

      • Short Dog

        Liking Jordan is cool but you act like there wasn’t other good players. Why don’t you admire Magic. He’s a laker and a dam good player HOF status.

      • WifelovesLuke

        Jerry West: you’re wasting your time but you have to admire the two Dog’s loyalty to the Lakers. These two Dogs are passionate die hard Laker fans and part the laker nation.

        • Short Dog

          You sure sound like that “stupidkobe”

          • JerryWest

            Who is stupidkobe? Don’t see his posts. The only ppl who are stupid seems to me is those who can’t even remember their laker history. Are you really a fan of the lakers? If so you need to learn their history.

        • JerryWest

          I admire a heart with a brain. Not brainless hearts.

          • Short Dog

            This is not about brains or hearts. Its a Laker nation site.
            I’m sure Jordan and lebron have websites. google it smarty pants.

        • Short Dog

          I’ve been a laker all my life. I’m 29. Good times and Bad times. excuse me for not knowing all the dam stats. Did you take a college course on the lakers or what?

          • JerryWest

            I agree this is definitely not about brains. still smh

          • JerryWest

            You don’t need stats, college, or whatever but to say Rambis is better than Jordan and stuff like that … that is just not right.

      • Short Dog

        I know Luke admires your wife. What do you have against me wifey? I’m not a lame bulls fan like you Swinger.

      • Short Dog

        You were gone for a while. Are you “stupidkobe” and now you put your real name.

        • Short Dog

          Refering to “wifeylovespubes” But if the shoe fits ware it.

  • Kurt Rambis

    I have 4 rings, why am I not in the debate?

    • JerryWest

      Good one Kurt. LOL You must be better than Malone. hahahhahahaa

      • Kurt Rambis

        Mr. West, thanks for sharing my vision and bringing me to LA.

    • Short Dog

      You are now. I said Rambis is better than Jordan.

    • JerryWest

      Congratulations Rambis you are better than Jordan. Can’t wait until your HOF induction and your jersey retired up in the rafters of Staples.

    • FERN DOG

      Two stupid fans like kurt rambis and oh whats that bitches name oh i remember jerry west.This is not about horry or malone or rambis this is about kobe being better than mj and you two bitches start nameing other players stupid.When it is set and done kobe will be on top and you two fools can get your comments and shove it up your ass bitches.

      • JerryWest

        Actually you started it by saying Wilkins was better than Jordan. Perhaps it is just your ADD and you forgot your medication.

        • Short Dog

          I said that. man fuck jordan. He gets no love from true laker fans. This is Kobes time to shine. Watch jordan reruns on NBA tv.

          • JerryWest

            You can’t remember? must be add

          • Short Dog

            No I dont remember his bull shit games. As far as ADD BITCH FUCK YOU. Your mama has ADD. Don’t fuck with me like that.

  • KING

    this sure is alot of comments… great idea Jason Riley… Rambis>Jordan lol

    Horry>Jordan haha

  • Short Dog

    Mark Madsen>Jordan
    This is a laker nation site not a Jordan site.

    • JerryWest

      I guess this is bizarro world. Up is down and day is night.

  • Short Dog

    It’s purple and gold. And very bizarro.

  • FERN DOG

    Who did jordan really beat after majic retired in the finals.KARL MALONE .CHARLES BARKLEY .JOHN STOCKON none of this fools even had one championship to their name.Those are the players mj had to beat to win most of his championships.Majic beat true legends players with rings in thier hand.MJ only got the tail peak of the majic era and bird.These two guys had already had 8 CHAMPIONSHIPS majic with 5 and bird with 3.Thats when jordan finally won his first title but like i say he only got the tail peak of the majic johnson era.How many times did the pistons beat the bulls in the playoffs almost the time i still that chicago could never get past the pistons.Damm you call that your best player he would just be a karl malone or a charles barley in the majic johnson era.So thats it jerry west by the way why do you have a jerry west name if you are up on jordans balls.KOBE1.

    • JerryWest

      Jerry West is a true Laker. He also recognizes Jordan is better. Does that make Jerry West not a Laker because he knows Jordan is better than KObe? Kobe is great. He is just not Michael.

      • FERN DOG

        Hey jerry west you didnt say much about jordan in the magic johnson era.I bet you that he would have never won in the majic and bird era.He beat players like karl malone charles barkley and so on.Those players are great but not a larry bird or drj.Damm majic was around with better teams and much more talent.Majic would beat the celtics with bird and the pistons the team that would always knock the bulls and mj out of the playoffs.Like i say jordan got the tail peak of the majic johnson era.Idont even think he would be able to handle boston and bird.They coundnt even beat a piston team that was always getting knocked out of the playoffs by boston.Come on mj you call that the best player in the world hell no.kobe1.

        • JerryWest

          Well Bird had McHale, Parish, DJ, Ainge, Maxwell, etc.. a vet team with lots of talent.. Magic had Kareem Worthy, Scott, Coop, etc… lots of talent… Michael he had… NO ONE. He got a young Pippen in the draft who didn’t mature until the 90’s. Malone and don’t forget Stockton two HOFamers he beat. And Magic Johnson who was in his prime in 91. He also beat a very good Portland team in the Finals a team the Lakers couldn’t get past.

          You betta Believe in Magic… Magic says Jordan is the Greatest.

          • Short Dog

            Dam you must of followed jordan so much you were on that bulls bandwagon. Now you jumped on the Cruise control Laker band wagon. Stay true stick to your team.

  • FERN DOG

    Kobe will be and is bettet than mj.Kobe will atleast have 7rings and be on top of mj.Jordan got lucky because he got the tail end of the majic era.He finally got past the pistons but not before loseing three straight years to them.thats when he finally won his first title.Majic retired the folling year and bird wasnt the same player.Mj to me didnt beat true legends because a true legend wins championships and karl malone or charles barkley and stockton didnt win and you cant compare those teams like utah and barkleys suns to the boston and the pistons in the majic era.Those teams where always getting beat by the lakers until majic retired and jordan got the tail peak of majic johnson.

    • JerryWest

      Jordan I am sorry to say beat Magic in the Finals before he retired. He also beat the Pistons to dethrone them along with beating the celtics in that conference.