Nation Discussion: Was it a foul on Fish? Refs consistency?

This is not a discussion for complaining. More about looking at some interesting trends from last night’s game. One thing I don’t understand is the consistency; to call a foul on one end in the last 15 seconds, but not the other. How – as a fan – do you feel about this. Refs probably have the hardest job on the planet – seriously – but lack of consistency is where I think we all become frustrated as NBA fans.

So let’s take a look at last night (picture(s) after the break)…

hmmm

I’ll leave it up to you guys… refs thought so. Then with the consistency issue, the next play I only saw two steps on the called “travel” despite being clipped by Manu on the Ariza play… Hmmm…

We know Spurs fans are saying play-on much like we did with the controversial, much more controversial, ending to last years post-season game 4 between the two teams. I’ll leave it up to you guys to debate… was it a foul?

Chris Manning is a co-owner and video producer for TheLakersNation.com. In addition to his "LD2k" fan-video productions, Chris is working as the "Production Manager" for HS3; A Digital, Brand Strategy and Marketing company based in L.A. which represents the digital entities of numerous high-profile athletes. You can follow him on Twitter for a wide array of sports/Lakers talk!
  • daboss1848

    Did referee blow the whistle?

  • Ryan

    I can understand this foul call but to call Ariza traveled on the last posession was unbelievable. The replay shows he was clearly tripped by Manu.

  • http://lakersground.net Lakers4Life

    seems pretty sketchy. oh well. time for the lakers to move on. if we played better defense then we wouldn’t need to question the refs’ consistency.

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #58558 Will Be Quoted Here]

    what r u an idiot ofcourse it wasn’t a foul. fish can do no wrong…

  • Kobeftw

    [Comment ID #58565 Will Be Quoted Here]

    +1

  • xxv112002

    It was a foul. Not gonna be a Sac Queen and whine about it. But to be fair, it should have been likewise on Ariza. Clearly he too was fouled.

  • http://www.modenadude.com/ThaDogg Imadogg

    Fish should not have put himself in that position. Kobe should have had yet another incredible game winner.

  • daboss1848

    I guess my point was missed (if the response is name calling):

    If ref blew whistle, then it was a foul and opinions to the contrary do not matter, as they will have no impact or effect on the result. Although it makes a wonderful topic for (bandwagon) fans to blame players and refs, the truth of the matter is the Lakers have an L, and the Spurs have a W.

  • Jake

    The guy did an alright job of selling it, whatever his name is. It kind of looked like Fish hit him, but looking at the still shots above, maybe he didn’t. It’s hard to say really, but, it’s done.

    Ariza definitely didn’t travel. Not with the crap Lebron gets away with (the famous “crab-dribble”, or whatever he calls it). It was an obvious two step move. Did he get fouled? Maybe. I figured that was the call when I heard the whistle but most people probably did, too. Oh well. It was a midway through the regular season game that they let slip away with lots of injuries and a tough back-to-back road trip.

  • http://ld2k.com Chris Manning
  • biglakerfan3408

    My take is this:

    The refs let it be known they were calling ticky tack fouls on shots throughout most of the game. Like that 3 foul shot on the last possesion of the third i think it was. They even reviewed it and could plainly see Ginobli push off on Trevor but gave him the 3 shots.

    Fish is a vet, and he just got beat on the play. His momentum carried him past the player but the player used an old Reggie Miller move and drew the foul.

    On the other end, that is a harsh call to make on trevor, but I thought we should have taken a timeout and gotten a good play call and force SA to play good D, or Kobe or Pau, hell even drew try and get a foul call.

    BLF 3408

  • Lakers 24 7

    Their jerseys might have barely grazed each other but Roger Mason over reacted it by falling down, therefor the foul being called.

    It’s bogus, it really is. I mean it’s a close game, and if you make a call then you should use the instant replay to correct it. THAT’S WHAT IT’S THERE FOR!

    Trevor Ariza took a step, got bumped (foul), and took another step, and shot it, thats 2 steps, perfectly legal when you drive to the rim after picking up your dribble.

  • http://www.nicklachey.us Nick Lachey USA

    Well Ariza traveled many times lately. I guess the refs were anticipating the travel as opposed to observing first.

  • Ko8e_f@n

    [Comment ID #58593 Will Be Quoted Here]

    We had no timeouts left at that point of the game. And it was really good recognition on Kobe not trying to force the shot when he was doubled. That bump on Ariza should have been called for a foul.

    Oh well. Classic game though.

  • Milo

    how about a challenge rule like they have in the NFL this would straighten out all these stupid ass mistakes by the officials why the fu-ck not install something like that??? it would make it better for the league and the teams who ever oversees these things should really consider it…

  • Paul

    [Comment ID #58561 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I concur.

  • Lakers 24 7

    [Comment ID #58598 Will Be Quoted Here]

    I was thinking the same. We need some shit like that. The Lakers have been f&cked one too many times lately.

  • josh

    I agree with just about everyone here.
    Fishs’ foul was close, but the dude sold it … so props to him.
    The travel on Ariza was a downright horrific call that really effed us over. But it is what it is – we can’t change the ref’s mistakes and it’s time to move on. We’re way better then the Spurs, and we all know that come playoffs, we come out on top.
    We just need to focus on our D and games won’t be so close.

  • VL

    AS a fan, you jsut want to see consistency. Both fouls were questionnable. Eitehr both are fouls or both aren’t. End of story!

  • Edward

    Had a foul to give, fisher was going to take it until he saw Mason shoot, Mason flopped, got the call. Ariza drove, got fouled, the referee on the baseline with the poorest visual made the call. The referee near half court did not make the call, he only backed it up.

  • Eidraq

    fisher fouled…and even if he didnt, he put himself in a bad position in the first place by going for the steal

  • http://www.lakersvolssparks.blogspot.com Margo

    Fish know you can’t put yourself in that position. But for the refs to make a traveling call on Trevor was ridiculous…we really should have had an extra session in one of the best games of the season. The refs determined the game in this one. To say would should have played better defense is really IMO a mute point in a game like this…because both teams were just offensively hot, it was just that type of game. San Antonio is a good defensive team…but we also shot over 50% against so..go figure.

  • Geloman

    You can never win against the officials. They won this for the Spurs.

  • kwame4mvp

    bring back kwame!!!!!

  • http://yahoo.com mark

    what happened is that fish gambled on a steal…
    then fish thought that mason would drive to the rim..
    so fish tried to run back fast thinking mason would drive..
    but instead, mason looked for a trey!
    coinsidentally fish was on his back..
    i dont know if there’s enough contact, but fish also tried to avoid him..
    but from what i saw.. i think mason stuck his feet out..
    as we all can see in the picture.. i dont know..
    but mason initiated the contact..
    if you would give him another shot right now, i dont think he’ll shoot that way(with legs apart), lol!!!
    see yah at staples next sunday spurs

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #58579 Will Be Quoted Here]

    So glad your on this site to enlighten us!

  • ILoveLakers

    It’s okay! ;)

    We still have the league’s best record. :D

    Cleveland just lost.. hehehe!

    What matters is that we finish with the NBA’s best record.

    We need that in Finals!

  • cjv038

    lakers should of fouled so they only had to make freethrows and it spurs best tie it up with the lakers. and they should of called a time out after the free throw. and there were inconsistency with the reffing the whole game.

  • dean

    Fished missed on the initial foul attempt… and when Mason went up for the shot he stuck out his leg… and if I recall you cant stick out your leg in a shooting situation that will be called an offensive foul because the defender is entitled to his space, but I do believe the ref had a bad angle of the play…

    and as far as the so called no foul travel call on Ariza, its no doubt it was a blocking foul on Manu and therefore Ariza should have been given free throws

  • D.FISH04

    [Comment ID #58596 Will Be Quoted Here]
    we did have timeouts left. Thats y when mason made the free throw pau looked to phil but phil said to keep playing. Trevor was fouled END OF STORY

  • WallyNewYorkCity

    NBA Refs have a tuff job, but i think they struggle with consistency. Refs seem to always favor the home team, I think that is why the spurs were getting so many calls and the lakers were not. This is something the NBA have to work on.

  • roscoe

    once fish got behind the play he should have let mason shoot and just took a vacation as opposed to trying to run around. it was a 2 and we were up by two, and would have had the last shot with kobe on fire, ill take those odds all day.

  • daboss1848

    [Comment ID #58621 Will Be Quoted Here]

    No problem – you’re welcome!

  • Ballin’09

    Fish DID foul him…..He very clearly made contact. This is the type of numb nut play I expect from a bone head like Sasha, Luke, or Rad….not Fisher. Had it been one of those guys Kobe would have ripped them a new one in front of everyone…Fish should have known better. Had it been the other way around everyone would be outraged there was a foul called.

    Trevor WAS tripped up. The referee’s never gave the Lakers a chance in HELL. That’s why they gotta start blowing out teams again, and stop giving refs the chance to be the deciding factor in this game.

  • wilzuvsteel

    If you look at Mason’s normal shooting style, he does not kick his legs out. This was an unnatural movement and by the NBA’s standards they too should call it a foul on the shooter like they did on Kobe a few years back trying to use him as a poster child for dirty play.

    Either way we’ve got the Spurs next time. They needed the hometown refs to beat us in this game as we only lost this game at the freethrow line.

  • Jason A

    Ah yes the travel call, must we forget, ARIZA MISSED THE SHOT ANYWAYS

  • KB24ForLife

    its ok… remember game 4 last year in the WCF? we owed ‘em one. it was only a regular season game so i’ll give them that one. but still that was bull shit… if you’re gonna call that foul on fish then why the fuuuuck not against who ever the fuuuck fouled ariza.

  • MR. JUAN_YOUR WARLOCK

    To everyone who so easily state with such certainty, that Fisher even “touched” Mason;
    …Do you all even study, with conviction, all of the evidence that has been put out there? …Not a single photograph or video, shows undisputed contact! …No part of Mason’s direction of movement was ever compromised or impeded, even to the slightest degree!
    …Or do you just accept what you think your eyes saw on TV, including the refs over-animated response to a complete FLOP, while not having any effect on your point of view!

  • MR. JUAN_YOUR WARLOC

    Everyone who so easily states with such certainty, that Fisher even “touched” Mason;
    …Do you even study, with conviction, all of the evidence that has been put out there? …Not a single photograph shows undisputed contact! …No part of Mason’s direction of movement was ever compromised or impeded, even to the slightest degree!
    …Or do you just accept what you think your eyes saw on TV, including the refs over-animated response to a complete FLOP!

  • LEADERFISH

    [Comment ID #58681 Will Be Quoted Here]

    You could see Mason and Fish make contact. You need to review the film again. Stop being such a laker homer. If this was in LA we would have gotten the same call. Leave it there and you won’t be embarrassed anymore.

  • MR. JUAN_YOUR WARLOC

    Get a life, you blind ambivalent OaFish!

  • Dracul

    There are several rule changes that can be implemented – but first you must decide if calling the game absolutely correctly and in the technical spirit of the rules is more important than other things, such as how these changes will impact the bottom line of the NBA. I don’t mind turning the NBA into NBA2010 for the PS3, as long as it cleans up some of these controversial calls, especially when people get murdered driving to the rim on the last play of the game and the refs are expected to ‘not call a foul on the last play’, give me a break, we need to eliminate the ambiguity.

    For example -

    1 – the NBA could use 2 more refs for sure. One for each pair of Offense/Defense players.

    2- RFID tags in player’s shoes coupled with sensors under the basket can determine 3 second violations in the paint.

    3- No more 3-second-later-score continuations on fouls! Guy gets fouled at the foul line, whistle blows, everyone stops, he makes two steps and lays it in.

    4- Clean up the ‘foul’ rule – I see offensive players literally throwing themselves into defenders, especially around the rim. If your body starts going diagonal more than the agreed ammount, all contact is either a no call or an offensive foul. However, this is unlikely since most of the top offensive players would foul out within 2 quarters -this would hurt the NBA’s appeal and bottom line (read: the ESPN highlight reel)

    5- A challenge rule must be implemented. They can review 3 point shots to see if they were behind the line, so why not challenge a foul on a 3 point play? The action stops, its a dead ball, easy to challenge the foul on the And One. Each team can get 2 challenges per half or something.

    6- Have a system of open referee review where each call is reviewed, scrutinized and also missed calls are reviewed.

    7- The NBA needs to get all the refs together and establish consensus as to what constitutes a “foul”. I see ticky tacks fouls being called followed by people getting their head taken off with no call on the following play. The same applies to establishing position, screens, post-ups, what constitutes ‘contact without a foul’, and people leaning into a defender’s space looking to draw a foul.

    -Dracul

  • MR. JUAN_YOUR WARLOC

    In other words: Today’s NBA officiating consistency, more than ever before, leaves a whole lot more to be desired! …Eh Dracul,

  • MRJUAN_YOURWARLOCK

    When will you guys learn. I have tape of this play and I spent two hours going over it. You could see there was no foul. The refs screwed us. The refs screwed us in the Finals. We could have beat Boston if the refs gave us a few more calls.

    Dracul you don’t know what you are talking about.

  • MR. JUAN_YOUR WARLOC

    [Comment ID #58749 Will Be Quoted Here]
    An Example of The Fake Frustrated Freakin Frolican FriedFish/ass4sure LEADERFISH, striking once again, in Heat! …ROFLOL !!!!!!!!