77 replies to this topic

[magicmoment]

Pau came in here & made us a much deeper team. He makes Kobe's job a lot easier too. He's a consistent player & has pretty good skills all around. Us not losing more than 2 in a row with Pau on the team is a huge stat, IMO.

[lakerfool]

Whatever people have him ranked at - its not high enough.

I really don't think a lot of the league has any comprehension on just how good Pau is. For my money - this season - he's the best PF in the Western Conference.

Thank you. Somebody gets it. Even on this board, it is apparent that he is severely underrated.

[fido]

Yeah, I mean sure overall career-wise, Duncan is the better player, but...

Right now though, this year at this moment, Pau is superior. The skill set on the guy is stunning. Couple that with a bit more toughness this year and his ability to guard either big, physical big guys or mobile power forwards and - damn.

The guy's good.

[last stand 2.0]

pau gasol might have become the best offensive big man in basketball

i mean look around the league what big man is better offensively than pau

i do think the combination of defense and offense still goes to timmy but pau has vaulted himself from 4th to 2nd this year

[kobynum]

im sorry i love Pau, but I know that Kobe is our best player hands down. That being said Kobe makes pau a lot better, but Pau is a very good player;borderline great. I dont know if he is top 20 even to be perfectly honest. Let's not underrate him, but also how are people even comparing him to Timmy, did you guys see what he did alone against us in the playoffs, yeah, they lost 4-1, but the games were close and Duncan dominated. You say that Kobe lost in the first round, but Phx's role players were considerably better than ours...Nash and Marion were a tie with Kobe and Odom, but after that we were bad. Then the year that Kobe played 65 games, and we didnt make the playoffs, b/c rudy left. Matter fact do you really want to compare kobe's individual career to Pau's...are u serious? Pau is definetely an All-star calibur player, but honestly this year as far as big men go, I can name a few who are better with more impact. Duncan is playing great, Yao, Amare and SHAQ(surprisingly), and then there's Howard. Dirk is still doing very good as the primary option, facing a lot of double teams.
The thing that makes Pau so special is his size, where he is a small center or a big PF. But I mean take out Pau, and give Phil and Kobe :Amare or Dirk or Carmelo, or Zach Randolph, or Elton Brand. All of which a people thought were better players than Pau when Pau was in memphis. But before i go i will definetely say this...Pau is one of the top all-around players in the league, and also one of the best team players...HELL he's a very good player, but not top 15...maybe not 20...these are twenty players that ARE BETTER IN MY OPINION
kobe, lebron,duncan, tony parker, garnett, carmelo, dwight howard, joe johnson, DIRK( i know head-to head Pau's been killing him)Shaq(too big and Bad[STILL])cp3,Amare,D-wade, and deron williams.
Now that's 14 that i say are BETTER than him...here's my list of players that are on his level and any given night can outplay him, have a better impact , and who would get a team built around them before him:
Lamarcus Aldrige, Chris Bosh, Billups, possibly Caron, Manu, Granger, Iverson, Al jefferson, richard jefferson, Nash, Pierce, Micheal redd( questionable) a healthy Elton Brand, Roy, Derrick Rose, and yao.

[fido]

We're talking power forwards here I thought. I didn't think we were talking all players in the league or all positions. Given that I'd ixnay all the aforementioned guards and stick with the big guys.

Dirk Nowitzki - Plays no D. If 50% of your game is mostly absent I have a hard time putting much stock in their game.

Amare Stoudemire - Too selfish and too driven by stats for my liking. More team goal oriented, then maybe - maybe. The skill sets are where Amare and Pau are separated. Amare's readable, but Pau can score on you any way he sees the seam to do so. Defensively Pau is a more flexible player, getting out of the paint and flashing up high then recovering far better than Amare has, can or might ever do. Amare's a better overall shot blocker, but that's it there.

LaMarcus Aldridge - Cannot outplay Pau when it comes to a longevity level. He's far too young and has proven nothing in the way of career consistency the way Pau has. In the future maybe, but if I'm selecting a ateam and have to choose between the 2, I'll take Pau every time.

Shaquille O'Neal - No way no how, not at this point of their careers.

Dwight Howard - Absolutely a better player, no problem there.

Tim Duncan - Career-wise (again) a better player, but this year, Duncan is second best.

Kevin Garnett - A better player, but man that piss poor attitude he has spoils most of his hard work for me.

Chris Bosh - As good offensively, but defensively I don't think Bosh outclasses Gasol by much - or if at all.

Al Jefferson - No way, no how. He's overrated and like many of his generation ignore defense.

Elton Brand - Not this year. He faded when he jumped to the 76ers. Now injured, he's out of the equation.

Yao - I think he's on the fence. At times Yao can be astounding. He uses his size well, but his stamina is horrid and in the long run Pau has proven that he outplays him over the length of an entire game.

In the West, Pau (this year) is the best PF.
In the East, I'd say second best to Kevin Garnett
League-wide (again, this year) - Pau would be in the top 5 big men (C's and PF's)

[kobynum]

If Pau missed Kobe and Bynum for most of the year, do you think the Lakers would only have lost 12 games? If we traded Al jeffereson for Pau, do u think another team in the WEST would be better than us? If we traded Yao for Pau, Duncan ,Bosh, Dirk, Amare...we wouldnt be the best. We dont see those players enough to know how good they are but all the unbiased say these are the best PFs in the league, and when i see them i know why. Aldrige is like a black Pau in my opinion with more strength and his shot will be better. Bosh is like Garnett without the other Big 2. I dunno, i think if we had Shaq and no gasol, but evryone else, we would be a little tougher, maybe not as good offensively, but a little better defensively

[phifedogg76]

only a couple of those guys could fit our "system", theyre not good enough passers or not smartr enough that is why they have very little assist numbers compared to pau playing in this "system"

[fido]

At this moment in time, Pau is perfect for this team.

I'd trade him for nobody.

I think the NBA's best record and the fact that the Lakers have an almost.750 record since his arrival is a painfully obvious testament to that fact.

[kobynum]

^ now our system being fitting to his style, or vice versa, i totally agree with, sorta like steve nash in d'antoni's
and also the fact that he can play 2 positions, but being better the people i listed in my original post, cant say that without being a simpson, Homer

[L.A.K.E.R]

At this moment in time, Pau is perfect for this team.

I'd trade him for nobody.

I think the NBA's best record and the fact that the Lakers have an almost.750 record since his arrival is a painfully obvious testament to that fact.

:goodpost:

[daco_inc]

If Pau missed Kobe and Bynum for most of the year, do you think the Lakers would only have lost 12 games? If we traded Al jeffereson for Pau, do u think another team in the WEST would be better than us? If we traded Yao for Pau, Duncan ,Bosh, Dirk, Amare...we wouldnt be the best. We dont see those players enough to know how good they are but all the unbiased say these are the best PFs in the league, and when i see them i know why. Aldrige is like a black Pau in my opinion with more strength and his shot will be better. Bosh is like Garnett without the other Big 2. I dunno, i think if we had Shaq and no gasol, but evryone else, we would be a little tougher, maybe not as good offensively, but a little better defensively

I see those players a lot actually. And Pau is on par or better than all of them. All you do is bring up these "what if" situations, while others are actually using real, tangible arguments and information like comparing skillsets.

[kobynum]

^ daco, u always try to throw barbs at me, but lets get serious. Lamar has the best SKILLSET on the team, he's our best rebounder, top three passer, top 3 scorer, top 3 playmaker, can RUN the fastbreak, but isnt the best player on our team...is he?

[daco_inc]

^ daco, u always try to throw barbs at me, but lets get serious. Lamar has the best SKILLSET on the team, he's our best rebounder, top three passer, top 3 scorer, top 3 playmaker, can RUN the fastbreak, but isnt the best player on our team...is he?

It's not a new problem or anything. It's never been easy to decipher your posts especially your long ones, but I didn't say anything about it out of respect. The grammar in your last post (run-on sentences, fragments, ambiguous pronouns, etc.) was just so jumbled that I just couldn't ignore it because it didn't really make much sense and that's the truth. And I didn't say people use just skillsets. That's just one of the several tangible arguments people use. Others include their stats, their visible impact on the game and teammates, and things of that nature. You're the only one I know who tries to pass off these "what if" situations as actual arguments.

Edited by daco_inc, January 05, 2009 - 06:47 PM.

[last stand 2.0]

i will say it again pau gasol is the second best offensive big man in the league

can hit the mid range shot probably more consistently than any big not named dirk nowiztki

can score with both hands equally as strong

long

has the 2nd best footwork behind tim duncan

has the 2nd best offensive IQ behind tim duncan

the BEST passer at big man in the NBA

one of if not the best ball handling big man

efficient

to be honest if he wanted he probably could be a north of 30% 3pt shooter

pau is pretty much second to none on the offensive side of the ball

where he drops in terms of overall is his defense and agression

[kobynum]

KG is a great mid range shotter, as well as amare and Bosh, l jefferson's footwork is superior to Pau's (honestly he might have the best in the league), offensively I can never see him scoring 50 ever, but other big men i can see doing that. The bottom line is this, i think Pau's dinstinction is as followed, the most efficient BIG in the league

Edited by Kobynum Gasodom 2, January 05, 2009 - 06:59 PM.

[kingjeezy♕]

I just read this stat, and to be quite honest... I don't know how the hell to handle it...

Since the acquisition of PF/C Pau Gasol, the Los Angeles Lakers (as of January 5th, 2009) have lost a grand total of 3 [THREE] games at home.

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!


Pau is so savage when he gets some home cooking. :dance1:

Edited by jeezyBEAST™, January 05, 2009 - 09:24 PM.

[L.A.K.E.R]

Only three games? That's an intense stat!

[xplayforrealx]

impact? he single handily made the Lakers a NBA Finals team.

there was someone named Kobe on the team lol. Come on Gasol was shooting like 60% from the field here and had open looks all day 5=10 feet from the basket

wow that was the most stupidest comment i ever read.
Im not referring to stats.

Edited by xplayforrealx, January 05, 2009 - 09:56 PM.

[MDI]

wow that was the most stupidest comment i ever read.

how bout trying to prove it wrong?

You want evidence?

I'll use my buddy L4l's post on CL recently take a look

http://www.clublaker.......92&start=80

Pau fans, let me start this out by saying I love and appreciate Pau. I hate to make it seem like I am knocking him to prop up Kobe; I am not doing that. I am simply trying to explain Kobe Bryant's importance to those who can't seem to see it on the floor.

Im not avoiding anything. how do we knoew his fg% hasnt gotten better because of scheme. Thats the thing. It can be dbated. Bottom line is that pau has always shot over 50% (sans one season) he has always scored the same (give or take).

How can it be debated? Pau is not used all that differently; just a little less face-up and a little more back to the basket (which he still doesn't do ALL that much of). In Memphis, they used him wide of the baseline and let him face up against smaller opponents. Against bigger opponents, they played him just below the elbow and, again, allowed him to face up. He also received touches on the block. The shot selection is definitely varied, but to try and account for a difference that vast by blaming the scheme? That doesn't explain why every single big man who has played with Kobe Bryant has set a career high FG% in the last three years.

This year, 64% of Pau's shots were assisted. This year, 43% of Pau's shots are jumpers. This year, 74% of Pau's jumpers are assisted and he's shooting .487% on them.

Here's those same numbers for Pau while in Memphis:
2002-2003: 57% of his shots are assisted, 47% of his shots were jumpers, 58% of his jumpers were assisted, and he shot .381% on them.
2003-2004: 57% shots assisted, 48% shots were jumpers, 61% of his jumpers were assisted and he shot .357% on them.
2004-2005: 57% shots assisted, 44% shots were jumpers, 58% of his jumpers were assisted and he shot .391% on them.
2005-2006: 50% shots assisted, 48% shots were jumpers, 54% of his jumpers were assisted and he shot .372% on them.
2006-2007: 52% shots assisted, 55% shots were jumpers, 55% of his jumpers were assisted and he shot .453% on them.
2007-2008(MEM only): 58% shots assisted, 55% shots were jumpers, 63% of his jumpers were assisted, and he shot .401% on them.

So think about this logically. Who dictates the ball in the triangle? Kobe Bryant. Pau Gasol is taking LESS jumpers, but has MORE of his overall field goals ASSISTED. What does that tell you? He's getting EASIER looks inside from his teammates. Who leads the Lakers in assists? Kobe Bryant. Pau Gasol has had more than TEN PERCENT higher of his jumpers assisted than ANY previous year. What does that tell you? Those are WIDE OPEN looks he didn't get in Memphis. Not only just that, but compared to year's past, anywhere from 6-14% more of Pau's overall field goals taken are assisted.

Now, even though Kobe leads LA in usage rate (he uses 30% of all LA possessions), let's say you think that it is the other 70% responsible, mostly, for Pau's increase in WIDE OPEN SHOTS (as indicated by the increases in assisted FG rates in ALL CATEGORIES). That would indicate Pau is more important offensively and that the system is responsible for the wide open looks generally speaking. However, the Lakers score 116.3 points per 100 possessions when Bryant is on the floor and only 107.7 points when he is off. When Pau is on the floor, the Lakers score 116.1 points per 100 possessions and 109.1 when is off. It is honestly very clear who is more important to the offense and that the offense doesn't sustain itself.

he led HIS TEAM to the 1st round of the payoffs 3 consecutive years. IIRC those teams were one of the better defensive teams in the league.

Where they lost every single game. They also had superior talent to the Lakers. You're also neglecting to mention how [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] they were last year and the year previous despite Pau's presence on the floor. IIRC, that never happened with Bryant. '05-'06 was the result of the team shutting Bryant down due to injury (and wanting a higher draft pick).

Here's the problem with talking about that defense and Pau...
2005-2006: Gave up 1.3 less points per 100 possessions when Pau was on the bench.
2004-2005: Gave up 1.8 less points per 100 possessions when Pau was on the bench.
2003-2004: Gave up 8.4 less points per 100 possessions when Pau was on the bench.

Enough said.