47 replies to this topic

[lakerfool]

Sorry, I'm impressed with team stats and what a player does to forward those far more than any individual stat line.

All of these guys are talented, any of them can score if given the ball constantly. Scoring and stats mean nothing without the W's to back them up.

If Shaq averaged 10/5, but worked to get the rest of the team involved and got them winning, I'd be taking notice.

And yeah, I don't think Amare is such a slouch. Sharing the ball between the 2 (along the Lakers style with Bynum and Gasol) would do more for the Suns' record and for everyone on the team than watching` Shaq dunk his way to a 20/10 stat line while the Suns wallow from 6th to 8th place in the West.

Sharing the ball with Amare wouldn't make the team better. You and I both know that. And you and I both know that they're doing better as they feed Shaq the ball. Defense, as always, has been Phoenix's weakness. Not having shaq score 20 points in insanely efficient shooting. You run your offense through your big man. Always.

Are you saying like, Fisher > Shaq? I don't get it. It's not Shaq's stats' fault the team isn't doing well, it's just that D'Antoni is gone and Kerr is [expletive]ing up. Shaq is doing what he can to help.

In 05-06, Shaq >>>>>>>>> Kobe?

That's what I'm saying. Fido, you gotta let go of your personal hatred for Shaq. Shaq's playing great. Nobody will tell you that the Suns aren't doing as well as they had because of Shaq. That's just absurd and lacks facts.

The main fact is is that Nash is out of his prime, and D is gone.

[fido]

Its not hatred, I just favor team concepts and analysis over personal ones.

Always have, always will - the 80s Lakers spoiled me that way.

[lakerfool]

Its not hatred, I just favor team concepts and analysis over personal ones.

Always have, always will - the 80s Lakers spoiled me that way.

So you like players like Lebron more than Kobe?

[fido]

I like players that will sacrifice anything for the good of the team.

That has been both throughout their career, but right now Kobe has matured far more than LeBron in that respect.

Kobe just happens to wear the clothes I cheer for, so I'll always favor him. But if he plays selfish or suddenly feels some need to pump his stats up in lieu of helping the team win, you'll hear my disdain for it loud and clear.

[lakerfool]

I like players that will sacrifice anything for the good of the team.

That has been both throughout their career, but right now Kobe has matured far more than LeBron in that respect.

Kobe just happens to wear the clothes I cheer for, so I'll always favor him. But if he plays selfish or suddenly feels some need to pump his stats up in lieu of helping the team win, you'll hear my disdain for it loud and clear.

So do you hold a Tim Duncan in higher regard than both? Winning 4 rings, taking pay cuts, taking a back seat the past few years?

[Imadogg]

Tim Duncan >>>>>>>>> Kobe. Oh wait he doesn't dress the way I like. Kobe > Duncan due to that.

[lakerfool]

Tim Duncan is the epitome of a franchise player. Period.

[TheCalmInsanity]

I'm with Lakerfool on this one actually...

Running the offense through Shaq has been great for the Suns. Not just for the stats. The stats help towards the wins but it's the style that they're playing.

Fido, even you have said earlier that you need one center down low and one around mid range shooting jumpers.

Well, Shaq's their down low center (finally, they have one), and Amare is shooting from mid range, and cutting inside for easy dunks when he gets a lane. That's Amare's real game, he doesn't like posting up much, with hook shots and all those big beefy center moves.

And yes, Tim Duncan is 100% the epitome of a franchise player. And guess what? He got it from none other than The Admiral, David Robinson. Who realized that the Spurs were not going to be able to afford Tim Duncan, and went to the organization himself and said "Please, take it out of my paycheck. Do whatever you can to make sure Tim Duncan is with us".

Do unto others what they do unto you... So the Spurs can thank David Robinson for that

[Real Deal]

There's a problem with all of this, though: Shaq wasn't brought to Phoenix for this.

Sure, he's doing great, offensively...but let me remind you that Tony Parker and Tim Duncan are waiting to eat up the Suns as a 7th seeded team, in the first round of the playoffs -- just as they did last year.

Why? Because Shaq can't defend the paint.

Ultimately, Phoenix made a bad trade. Marion's defense puts stress on Parker. With Nash having to defend Parker these days, it will be up to Shaq to stop him from laying the ball up 20 times a game.

Versus the Suns, Parker and Duncan were ranked the top two players in the postseason in points in the paint. In fact, Phoenix racked up what, 120 or so points in the paint for their first two games versus the Suns?

I'm not amazed that Shaq is doing this, in Phoenix -- especially after what they have done with Grant Hill, who I thought was finished. However, Phoenix is going to have to stop relying on Shaq to keep slashing guards out of the paint, or else they will get punished in the postseason against teams with excellent penetrating guards.

[fido]

Hold in a higher regard - yes, I do hold Duncan higher right now.

He's a shining example of why 4 years in college pay off bigger than jumping from high school. his play and track record is also a great representative of why being a team guy first makes everyone better, including the entire franchise. How long of a run have they been on since he came? Back to the college thing (which is off-topic but i thought I'd throw it out there) he learned how to be a part of a team dynamic and how to sacrifice personal stats to do so. Then when the team gets good, those personal stats always come along.

As they have with Kobe.

Its an old Seinfeld stand-up bit, the clothes thing. Ever since I heard it, I always think that really that's all anyone is routing for - still makes me laugh 15 years later.

To answer any other questions about it - team first, individual second.

if you want to excel as an individual and only care about that then pursue golf, darts, bowling, pool, whatever. But if you want to be the best in a team sport then you always have to put we before me - always.

By the way - EXCELLENT points Real Deal. Dominating the ball was definitely not why he was brought on board.

also - I did say that CalmInsanity, and i stick by it in this case. To not set up defenses to collapse on you and kick it out to a now more open Stoudemire is still not helping the team.

[insert coin here]

The Spurs would just P&R Phoenix to death... Terry Porter team is supposed to play more D, but...

Shaq
Amare
Nash
Hill
Richardson
Barbosa

All matadors, these guy cannot guard their own shadows, let alone Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili...

[popo]

The Spurs would just P&R Phoenix to death... Terry Porter team is supposed to play more D, but...

Shaq
Amare
Nash
Hill
Richardson
Barbosa

All matadors, these guy cannot guard their own shadows, let alone Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili...

Barnes is a solid defender and Lopez is a decent hustle player.

[kobynum]

Lakerfool loves Shaq, wishes the Lakers got rid of Kobe, thats why he Loves Lebron

[lakerfool]

Lakerfool loves Shaq, wishes the Lakers got rid of Kobe, thats why he Loves Lebron

Lakerfool loves Shaq,

Yes. He brought us 3 rings as the leader of the pack. Should have been 4-5 if our front office didn't get complacent and didn't sign younger talent around the duo.

wishes the Lakers got rid of Kobe

I wish Kobe didn't get rid of Shaq

thats why he Loves Lebron

If you don't love Lebron, you don't love NBA basketball.

[lakerfool]

Do you seriously believe that? Do you have some evidence to back up your statement that Kobe got Shaq traded?

It's common knowledge that if we didn't get rid of Shaq, Kobe would have been a Clipper.

[kobynum]

i dont love lebron...i think he is the most versatile player in the league. I think he is the best player on any given night, but I dont love him. I love Kobe...I love Fish, every other player i like or admire

[kobynum]

not only him nissan, but many others. Kobe was the little brother anyway, where was Shaq's maturity and desire to JUST WIN, instead of bicker

[Imadogg]

Stop believing everything the media and Shaq said about Kobe.

Shaq wanted to be traded because he didn't get his contract extension during the off season. Shaq got upset because of comments Mitch made during a press conference and requested a trade the following day.

Do you really believe Kobe has control on the Lakers?

That was a huge reason, but Kobe definitely played a big part in it... cmon.