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What's Wrong With Kobe and We Need a PG


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#21 GCMD

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 09:33 AM

Start Farmar. Give him the green light. He's our PG of the future and the future is coming up pretty soon.


The time is now. It will also save Kobe a WHOLE lot of miles with less ballhandling duties.


It won't be pretty at first but this will produce the best results long-term (ie, April-May-June).



Do it NOW.

#22 Law Ray

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 09:36 AM

Regards to last night game my biggest disappointment was the extreme high volume of jump shoots the Lakers kept taking. I notice several times the Lakers has easy points in the paint with WIDE open layups instead they settle for jump. Memo to the Lakers keep this crap up & Boston will run right over you arses!!!!

#23 Tobias Fünke

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 09:40 AM

We should have traded for Keyon Dooling. Farmar plays much better when there is someone who could take his minutes.
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#24 Angela1986

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 08:27 PM

I'm not worried about his shots. I just hate when he doesn't look focused on defense. The overall defense of the team is flat out putrid.

#25 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 08:55 PM

the blame does not fall soley on fishers shoulders in the least bit
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#26 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted December 11, 2008 - 09:21 PM

Kobe has logged in 12 full seasons, 11 playoffs, hasn't rested his body since the summer of 2007, and is playing with an injured right pinky. There is no question that 1) his minutes must continue to be monitored and 2) that he has to adjust the rhythm of his game to fewer minutes than that to which he is accustomed. And yes, he is past his prime, but not on the downside of his career and superstars who are fundamentally sound like Kobe adjust their games to remain at a high level as they get older. He will be fine and will be logging in his normal 38-42 minutes come playoff time.

As for the point guard position, the PER is a horrible indicator for the triangle offense. The Lakers are one of the few teams in the NBA who don't run their offense through the point guard position. The Bulls had BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Ron Harper and Steve Kerr. All of them were more in the mold of shooting 2 guards who could guard pgs and shoot the 3. The Shaq-Kobe Lakers had Harper, Fish and Brian Shaw. Even Ty Lue, who is more of a prototypical pg (although he's not a great penetrator), shot the 3, and was taught the ways of the triangle. In fact, he still does and might be a smart pick up. My solution is to slide Sasha to the point from time to time. He's a better on the ball defender than Fish or Farmar, he was originally drafted as a pg, and he has the extra size that Philip likes. Yes, I wish we had a Rondo on the team, but more important than that is the toughness we still lack at the small forward position and the fact that Bynum isn't as big and strong and experienced as he will be in a few years. Simply, we need more toughness than we need a point guard.

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, December 11, 2008 - 10:47 PM.


#27 Mo Rings

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Posted December 12, 2008 - 06:45 AM

Championships are not won in December. Patience!!! Champions also don't win every game during the season.

I wouldn't want us playing at the top pf our game now. Then they(we) WOULD get bored.

#28 GCMD

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 12:43 AM

Luke in the starting lineup proves that we are in dire need of another setup guy. I'll just leave it at that.

#29 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 12:50 AM

Luke in the starting lineup proves that we are in dire need of another setup guy. I'll just leave it at that.


yep luke has proved that our offense needs someone who doesn't need to score but is willing to pass and set up the offense

i mean if luke is averaging 7 assists in his 2 games starting this year it shows our talent but that we dont have a facilitator

think about our previous line-up

kobe scorer
pau scorer first- passer second
bynum scorer
vlad rad shooter
fisher shooter

i dont see one guy that is there to facilitate

look at the celtics they have all that great talent in KG, paul pierce, ray allen but who makes them tick their PG rajon rondo because he is out there to feed the finishers the rock and set up the offense

fisher is nice but hes far from a set up guy

the bulls had scottie pippen to set up all the shooters and MJ

the 2000 lakers had brian shaw and ron harper


with all these great scorers and finishers we need someone who can make all of that come together, get good shots, and run the offense more smoothly.

i mean look at the difference in the offense since a passer like luke was inserted all of a sudden we are running like clockwork again

now imagine a legitimate playmaker with all this scoring talent

our biggest mistake this season might have been not making a legitimate push for chauncey billups

we need a guy who will set up all these scorers and we need a PG who can do that and play defense
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#30 Daddy4MVP

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 08:59 PM

yep luke has proved that our offense needs someone who doesn't need to score but is willing to pass and set up the offense

i mean if luke is averaging 7 assists in his 2 games starting this year it shows our talent but that we dont have a facilitator

think about our previous line-up

kobe scorer
pau scorer first- passer second
bynum scorer
vlad rad shooter
fisher shooter

i dont see one guy that is there to facilitate

look at the celtics they have all that great talent in KG, paul pierce, ray allen but who makes them tick their PG rajon rondo because he is out there to feed the finishers the rock and set up the offense

fisher is nice but hes far from a set up guy

the bulls had scottie pippen to set up all the shooters and MJ

the 2000 lakers had brian shaw and ron harper


with all these great scorers and finishers we need someone who can make all of that come together, get good shots, and run the offense more smoothly.

i mean look at the difference in the offense since a passer like luke was inserted all of a sudden we are running like clockwork again

now imagine a legitimate playmaker with all this scoring talent

our biggest mistake this season might have been not making a legitimate push for chauncey billups

we need a guy who will set up all these scorers and we need a PG who can do that and play defense


this was the most beautiful post i have ever seen :clap:
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#31 daco_inc

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 09:38 PM

Kobe needs to facilitate. That's what he was doing last year, and he turned his offense on when necessary. He's in the perfect position to do it also with the fact that he can demand double and even triple teams. But no, instead he's playing sloppy offense: taking contested shots, not moving the ball around, and resorting to "Kobe ball" at times when it isn't even necessary. Kobe will always get his share of points, 20+, even with taking up a facilitator role. It will also make him more efficient as well as the rest of the team.

#32 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 10:31 PM

Last Stand 2.0's post may have bee beautiful, but it's flawed. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Luke's in there for fluidity, but a facilitating point guard isn't the answer. One who plays defense is a different story inasmuch as we have no problem scoring whether Luke starts, Buzz Kill starts, or the second unit is on the floor. The triangle offense requires that all 5 players on the floor pass well. Gasol, Fish, Kobe, Walton and even Bynum and Buzz Kill pass well. Kobe facilitates. Lamar facilitates, Fish facilitates, Luke facilitates and even Farmar, Sasha and, to a lesser degree, Ariza, does as well. Chauncey Billups would have been a polished combination of Brian Shaw and Ron Harper, but come on; defensively, we'd still be where we are.

#33 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 13, 2008 - 10:41 PM

Last Stand 2.0's post may have bee beautiful, but it's flawed. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Luke's in there for fluidity, but a facilitating point guard isn't the answer. One who plays defense is a different story inasmuch as we have no problem scoring whether Luke starts, Buzz Kill starts, or the second unit is on the floor. The triangle offense requires that all 5 players on the floor pass well. Gasol, Fish, Kobe, Walton and even Bynum and Buzz Kill pass well. Kobe facilitates. Lamar facilitates, Fish facilitates, Luke facilitates and even Farmar, Sasha and, to a lesser degree, Ariza, does as well. Chauncey Billups would have been a polished combination of Brian Shaw and Ron Harper, but come on; defensively, we'd still be where we are.

on chauncey he is a premier PG defender

and on the facilitating

lamar
kobe
pau
bynum
fisher
vlad
farmar
sasha

some of these guys have the ability to facilitate but none of them do it we take contested shots which lead to easy fast break oppurtunities

i'm not saying thats our only defensive problem but its one of them

as i said i would love a mike conley type PG who facilitates, rebounds, and defends

but right now i dont think the lakers make a trade like that so we just have to live with luke being our primary glue guy and facilitator
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#34 kobynum

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 09:04 AM

bottom line: KObe could be our facilitator if, he had the ball more...right now Gasol is the facilatator b/c he has the ball just as much as our guards...but no one player solves our defensive problems...Billups would help us in our biggest problem defensively:BAD OFFENSIVE PLAY
turnovers are hard to defend, and run-and-gun tempo is not what we should be trying to play at, biggest problems for our team by far
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#35 LALDynasty

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 12:35 PM

Nothing is wrong with Kobe.... he just choosing his moments to shine.
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#36 LA Forever

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 12:37 PM

What’s wrong with Kobe Bryant?
Nothing.
That’s what Phil Jackson said Friday.



#37 daco_inc

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 01:07 PM

Nothing is wrong with Kobe.... he just choosing his moments to shine.

Will people stop acting like Kobe is some sort of superman who can turn it on or off whenever he wants? Sorry, this isn't meant to single you out because you aren't the only one who is saying this crap. It's as if you're insinuating that he's choosing to suck out there because he doesn't feel like he wants to shine right now. Kobe's a competitor. No matter how poorly he's playing or how many poor choices he makes when he's out there, he's still trying his best when he's on the floor. With that said, I don't think anything is wrong with Kobe either. He's just not playing up to par right now, which all players go through. He'll get past it eventually. He just needs to wise up a bit.

#38 kobynum

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 02:24 PM

the funny thing is kobe isnt playing bad right now...but i think he plays better with the ball in his hands, that being said wait till crunch time...kobe just seems to get better when the team needs him most
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#39 daco_inc

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:37 PM

the funny thing is kobe isnt playing bad right now...but i think he plays better with the ball in his hands, that being said wait till crunch time...kobe just seems to get better when the team needs him most

He sure showed up in crunch time when the Pacers came back and beat us. Or how about the Kings who were even missing their best player? Kobe is playing bad by his standards. ANYONE who has actually watched him play WITHOUT Kobe goggles knows that.

Anyways, it's literally impossible to reason with a Kobe fan who claimed Kobe can do no wrong, so I'll stop here

Edited by daco_inc, December 14, 2008 - 04:40 PM.


#40 Aceis²FresH

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Posted December 14, 2008 - 04:39 PM

the funny thing is kobe isnt playing bad right now.

:nah:




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