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Laker Leaders not leading by example..


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#141 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:08 PM

It is a bit silly, but there is a point.

Look at KG's intensity when he is on the floor. I don't see that from ANY of our players.

KG plays intensely on both sides. He treats it like a war. KG is playing MUCH better than Bryant.

I don't care if you pull out a stat sheet. KG's playing ALL-NBA defense. He sets the tone for that team. He may not score 30 ppg, but he doesn't have to. It's his defense that makes him great. I find it even more laughable that some people would pick Pau over him as well.


there in lies the problem KG can play that great defense because the offense is not run through him its run through rondo and pierce

if you want to run the offense through gasol and bynum then kobe can pull out his jordan-esque level defense

until then expecting so is ridiculous they are two much different circumstances
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#142 lakerfool

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:13 PM

there in lies the problem KG can play that great defense because the offense is not run through him its run through rondo and pierce

if you want to run the offense through gasol and bynum then kobe can pull out his jordan-esque level defense

until then expecting so is ridiculous they are two much different circumstances


It is indeed RIDICULOUS that we have 2 excellent post players and yet Phil has the offense run through Kobe, when Kobe is best used as a pure 2 guard, with the offense run through the middle.

He's still lacking the intensity I see in KG's play, but that is probably due to the olympics.
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#143 Base

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:17 PM

It is indeed RIDICULOUS that we have 2 excellent post players and yet Phil has the offense run through Kobe, when Kobe is best used as a pure 2 guard, with the offense run through the middle.

He's still lacking the intensity I see in KG's play, but that is probably due to the olympics.

He didn't come out with the intensity he had last season at the start of this season, the Olympics should be no excuse, he's not tired, he's just overconfident with his team.

#144 daco_inc

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:19 PM

It is indeed RIDICULOUS that we have 2 excellent post players and yet Phil has the offense run through Kobe, when Kobe is best used as a pure 2 guard, with the offense run through the middle.

He's still lacking the intensity I see in KG's play, but that is probably due to the olympics.

I don't think his intensity is the problem. It's the choices he makes. His shot selection, his gambling too much on the defensive end. He just needs to be smarter, not necessarily more intense.

#145 Base

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:22 PM

I don't think his intensity is the problem. It's the choices he makes. His shot selection, his gambling too much on the defensive end. He just needs to be smarter, not necessarily more intense.

I feel like when Kobe is intense the team plays harder. So I think intensity does play a factor into it as well as what you said. Stu lantz said tonight that "The team follows Kobe's bounce". If Kobe was the old intense, technical foul Kobe, I think they would be playing harder on both sides of the court.

Edited by Base, December 09, 2008 - 11:23 PM.


#146 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:24 PM

i think alot of this falls on phil in that we have two huge post players yet we run up and down the floor instead of utilizing our advantage

our defense suffers because our bigs can't get back after quick jumpshots

our offense suffers because instead of throwing it into 2 guys shooting above 50% we shoot jumpers with 1-3 shooting under 45%

phil needs to wake up and realize this team needs to be run like the 2000 lakers except instead of one monster post player we have 2 very good ones

nobody in the NBA is better than kobe at running off of big men i dont understand the logic of not running our offense through our 2 7 footers
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#147 lakerfool

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Posted December 09, 2008 - 11:29 PM

I don't think his intensity is the problem. It's the choices he makes. His shot selection, his gambling too much on the defensive end. He just needs to be smarter, not necessarily more intense.


He's become lazy on defense, often relying on going for steals instead of keeping his man in front of him.

On offense, well he's just Kobe. Phil needs to step in and pound the ball down low, get the other team in foul trouble, and open things up on the perimeter.
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#148 allornothing

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 12:21 AM

Kobe doesn't play the fundamentals of defense. And this funneling defense is pure crap when our players are too slow to react, especially since most of them don't have quick feet.

Time to play our best defensive team.

#149 Grandpa Herman

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 04:42 AM

i think alot of this falls on phil in that we have two huge post players yet we run up and down the floor instead of utilizing our advantage

our defense suffers because our bigs can't get back after quick jumpshots

our offense suffers because instead of throwing it into 2 guys shooting above 50% we shoot jumpers with 1-3 shooting under 45%

phil needs to wake up and realize this team needs to be run like the 2000 lakers except instead of one monster post player we have 2 very good ones

nobody in the NBA is better than kobe at running off of big men i dont understand the logic of not running our offense through our 2 7 footers

Our bigs would be more free if Kobe and Fish weren't so cold on the perimeter.
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#150 kobynum

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 05:49 PM

kobe sux


i wont attack anyone, ill just say i saw intensity prior to the Kings game, and we lost, but i think the back-2-back ws in our mind, and i feel like this has kinda been a long road trip, with the one home game(the first always being dangerous), and then going to a fired up Kings team, whos overall record isnt indicative to the amount of YOUNG talent that team has, i mean sometimes in this 82 game schedule its just about 10 guys going up and down the court and any team could lose in those games.
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#151 LALDynasty

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:18 PM

Kobe was better tonight..I like it...hope it keeps up.
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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:26 PM

Kobe laughed tonight, didn't he? Trade him!

Seriously, it all starts with perimeter D (well, whole D in general but this one is the kryptonite IMO), and ends with feeding the bigs...

Edited by Avtomat Kalashnikov, December 10, 2008 - 10:26 PM.

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#153 LALDynasty

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:28 PM

Kobe laughed tonight, didn't he? Trade him!

Seriously, it all starts with perimeter D (well, whole D in general but this one is the kryptonite IMO), and ends with feeding the bigs...



DO IT MITCH!


j/k :)

exactly though

Edited by m4mb4 24, December 10, 2008 - 10:28 PM.

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#154 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:44 PM

you guys are ridiculous just because we won kobe played better

kobe played horrible i mean he took bad shots which are fine every superstar does

but his D was awful i mean its been bad the past few weeks but tonight it hit and all time low whoever he guarded went off

grant hill went by him all day

matt barnes simply was wide open every time kobe was on him and was cutting to the basket and getting layups

we win kobe played better no true to be honest kobe played better defensively yesterday

i thought oh maybe fisher was the issue no

i thought pau and bynum weren't protecting the rim no they can't protect if the lay-ups are off of back cuts because someone cant stay with their man cough***kobe***cough

i thought maybe the small foward but luke, ariza all did decent jobs when in there

it is kobe guys i noticed today and thought back to all our defensive breakdowns

kobe simply roams around leaves his guy tries to make plays that aren't available

very frustrating
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#155 West Coast

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:45 PM

you guys are ridiculous just because we won kobe played better

kobe played horrible i mean he took bad shots which are fine every superstar does

but his D was awful i mean its been bad the past few weeks but tonight it hit and all time low whoever he guarded went off

grant hill went by him all day

matt barnes simply was wide open every time kobe was on him and was cutting to the basket and getting layups

we win kobe played better no true to be honest kobe played better defensively yesterday

i thought oh maybe fisher was the issue no

i thought pau and bynum weren't protecting the rim no they can't protect if the lay-ups are off of back cuts because someone cant stay with their man cough***kobe***cough

i thought maybe the small foward but luke, ariza all did decent jobs when in there

it is kobe guys i noticed today and thought back to all our defensive breakdowns

kobe simply roams around leaves his guy tries to make plays that aren't available

very frustrating


Took the words right out of my mouth :vic2:

#156 LALDynasty

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:47 PM

you guys are ridiculous just because we won kobe played better

kobe played horrible i mean he took bad shots which are fine every superstar does

but his D was awful i mean its been bad the past few weeks but tonight it hit and all time low whoever he guarded went off

grant hill went by him all day

matt barnes simply was wide open every time kobe was on him and was cutting to the basket and getting layups

we win kobe played better no true to be honest kobe played better defensively yesterday

i thought oh maybe fisher was the issue no

i thought pau and bynum weren't protecting the rim no they can't protect if the lay-ups are off of back cuts because someone cant stay with their man cough***kobe***cough

i thought maybe the small foward but luke, ariza all did decent jobs when in there

it is kobe guys i noticed today and thought back to all our defensive breakdowns

kobe simply roams around leaves his guy tries to make plays that aren't available

very frustrating


yeah he needs to give the roaming job to someone else..like Ariza.... lol
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#157 daco_inc

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:48 PM

Yep Kobe had yet another bad game. His "roamer" experiment on the defensive end has failed. He needs to get back to his "I'm going to shut down the best offensive guard or SF on the other team" mentality, not this "I'm going to leave my man open and hope I can get a steal" crap.

#158 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:57 PM

look at boston

are they good individual defenders outside of rondo and KG hell no

in fact ray allen and paul pierce are pretty bad but what do they do

each individual player doesn't try to do anything fancy or spectacular they stay in front of their man to the best of their ability and if necessary build a strong side wall but rarely do they double team

great defensive teams dont play bruce bowen defense for all 5 guys each guy does his job while you have an anchor and what you would hope 1 defensive stopper for the kobes and lebrons of the league

kobe needs to reevaluate himself and say look i'm not 22 anymore this whole roaming business just doesn't work anymore because i'm not quick enough to recover

all it does is cost the team to scramble and eventual layups or open jumpers

guys like shane battier, bruce bowen, ron artest are well known lock down defenders do they roam around scoping passing lanes, looking for block attempts, steal oppurtunities no they stick with their man and do their best to keep him in front of them.

kobe needs to realize this is not 2004-2007 we have a bunch of capable players who can carry the load for 3 quarters while you shut down the opposing teams best player

i mean we all know kobe is a top 5 perimeter defender when he picks his shorts up and decides to get down and dirty

if he wants to be considered in the same class as jordan and bird and magic he needs to realize what his team needs right now which is a defensive identity someone to set the tone
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#159 LALDynasty

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 10:57 PM

Yep Kobe had yet another bad game. His "roamer" experiment on the defensive end has failed. He needs to get back to his "I'm going to shut down the best offensive guard or SF on the other team" mentality, not this "I'm going to leave my man open and hope I can get a steal" crap.


he does need to go back to that...if it hurts the team..stop doing it.. call the bet off.
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#160 last stand 2.0

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Posted December 10, 2008 - 11:04 PM

Yep Kobe had yet another bad game. His "roamer" experiment on the defensive end has failed. He needs to get back to his "I'm going to shut down the best offensive guard or SF on the other team" mentality, not this "I'm going to leave my man open and hope I can get a steal" crap.


i'm telling you that roaming strategy is making everyone else look bad but tonight it was noticeable that kobe was the one allowing those wide open jumpers and lay-ups

this team would be better off with kobe averaging 20ppg but playing the kind of defense he is capable of instead of 25ppg but kobe trying to get the big play steal

i mean do the lakers watch film are kobe, phil completely ignoring this because game in game out kobe comes out with the same strategy.

roaming is never fine but when you have shaq anchoring, rick fox, brian shaw-ron harper as perimeter defenders, and 22 year old legs its forgiveable more room for error

when your defense is less than stellar as it is with 3 other below average defenders and 1 above average defender in bynum all roaming does is look like bad gambling and lay-ups being wide open and jumpers being wide open as a result

kobe looks like a guy who is completely overestimating the luxury of having 2 7 footers

kobe looks like a guy who thinks the basket is fine even if his man is now wide open floating around the court to open spaces
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