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Shaq back with the Lakers?


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#161 pound4pound

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Posted November 21, 2008 - 12:33 PM

that dude wants to go back to LA so bad


LMAO!!!



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#162 Louizzle

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Posted November 21, 2008 - 11:32 PM

Gotta love how Kobe fans try to make a hero out of Kobe for quitting on this team. And they truly believe it too. Wow. Trying to reason that "being traded despite wanting to play here" is worse than "wanting to be traded and quitting on the team." Kobe fans say the darndest things. :lol:

I get it kuya jl. You don't want Shaq here because of some personal grudge. Your personal grudge is more important than adding talent to this team. Your personal grudge is more important than the success of this franchise. Maybe you should be posting on a message board about you, and not on a lakers board.

Yea I have no idea what Shaq has done to our organization. Damn, that Shaq was a bastard for leading our team to those 3 championships (no, this team didn't give Shaq those 3 championships, he lead this team to those championships). I hate him so much for those 3 championships!


Quitting on his team? We all know Kobe's competitive nature. Put yourself in his position; your in your prime in NBA and you're surrounded by a bunch of scrubs who you know for sure won't get you anywhere in the playoffs. And to top it off, your organization is showing no signs of trying to improve the team and instills all their hope's into Bynum. What else are you going to do? Ruin your NBA legacy and risk staying with a team that wants to go in a different direction? If you really think about it, Kobe is the main reason why all these changes were made and why we're in the position we are right now. If he hadn't demanded that trade, Kupchak wouldn't of been pressured to make any trades or take any risks. And even without Kupchak making any significant moves in the beginning of last season, Kobe's trade demand probably motivated his teammates to work even harder, especially Bynum.

And who said I had a personal grudge against Shaq? I'm taking this from the Laker's organization's perspective. Jerry Buss would simply refuse to take Shaq back for leaving the way he did. If Jerry Buss wants Shaq back, then it's whatever to me. I could care less, unless Shaq has a negative impact on our team. Yes, he led us to 3 championships, but what about the Shaq of now? He's old and doesn't have that much mileage on his body anymore. The thing that makes me scratch my head is that he's saying all these good things about Kobe and the Lakers right now and when we're winning when he could of said these things before.

I'm done arguing in this thread. It's pointless. We both have different views and I respect yours even though I don't approve of some of them.

Edited by KuYa JL, November 21, 2008 - 11:36 PM.


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#163 lakerfool

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 08:46 AM

Quitting on his team? We all know Kobe's competitive nature. Put yourself in his position; your in your prime in NBA and you're surrounded by a bunch of scrubs who you know for sure won't get you anywhere in the playoffs. And to top it off, your organization is showing no signs of trying to improve the team and instills all their hope's into Bynum. What else are you going to do? Ruin your NBA legacy and risk staying with a team that wants to go in a different direction? If you really think about it, Kobe is the main reason why all these changes were made and why we're in the position we are right now. If he hadn't demanded that trade, Kupchak wouldn't of been pressured to make any trades or take any risks. And even without Kupchak making any significant moves in the beginning of last season, Kobe's trade demand probably motivated his teammates to work even harder, especially Bynum.

And who said I had a personal grudge against Shaq? I'm taking this from the Laker's organization's perspective. Jerry Buss would simply refuse to take Shaq back for leaving the way he did. If Jerry Buss wants Shaq back, then it's whatever to me. I could care less, unless Shaq has a negative impact on our team. Yes, he led us to 3 championships, but what about the Shaq of now? He's old and doesn't have that much mileage on his body anymore. The thing that makes me scratch my head is that he's saying all these good things about Kobe and the Lakers right now and when we're winning when he could of said these things before.

I'm done arguing in this thread. It's pointless. We both have different views and I respect yours even though I don't approve of some of them.


He DID quit on his team. He QUIT on Bynum. He QUIT on Phil. He QUIT on Lamar. Stop deifying him. You're holding Kobe greater than the LAKERS.

Buss doesn't hold grudges. He's a business man. Buss doesn't have the pre-teen attitude of anger towards 'betrayal' that Kobe fans have. Stop projecting YOUR feelings onto Buss. Buss remembers MONEY and VICTORY from Shaq more than a few nasty words.

Talk is CHEAP. Results is what matters. And the Lakers remember results.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#164 kobynum

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 09:04 AM

^ the fool in your name is justified according to your last comment. In the offseason when kobe ranted, the Lakers werent HIS team. He PLAYED for the team, but this isnt the team he envisioned, nor was it the team promised to him or LAKER fans like myself. I definetely am a KOBE fan, and still I am a team first guy. Kobe ASKING not demanding a trade, was understandable. you guys seem to forget that most players on Kobe's level(i.e. jordan, bird MAGIC) didnt have to play with poor players during thier PRIME. Kobe had to do ridicolous things for the team to win and to lose to the SUNS, who werent even built for a title, but had a considerably better chance at winning than us was beyond frustrating. Kobe is a human like all of his, if the place he is working isnt up to par then he has the right to leave. QUIT ON HIS TEAM, no it seemed for a while the BUSS was quitting on his promise to have a contender immediately. And he didnt draft Bynum to say HE quit on him. Kidd is a hall of famer and Drew was not ready to win yet, simple and plain. He never talked of not suiting up, YOU could never put QUIT and KOBE in the same sentence. THE team is lucky to have KOBE just as it was LUCKY to have SHAQ in his prime. And i do agree that this year Shaq could help but in 2, maybe as a veteran presence, i mean mutumbo was effective until he was 40 mso anything is possible.
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#165 daco_inc

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 10:05 AM

^ the fool in your name is justified according to your last comment. In the offseason when kobe ranted, the Lakers werent HIS team. He PLAYED for the team, but this isnt the team he envisioned, nor was it the team promised to him or LAKER fans like myself. I definetely am a KOBE fan, and still I am a team first guy. Kobe ASKING not demanding a trade, was understandable. you guys seem to forget that most players on Kobe's level(i.e. jordan, bird MAGIC) didnt have to play with poor players during thier PRIME. Kobe had to do ridicolous things for the team to win and to lose to the SUNS, who werent even built for a title, but had a considerably better chance at winning than us was beyond frustrating. Kobe is a human like all of his, if the place he is working isnt up to par then he has the right to leave. QUIT ON HIS TEAM, no it seemed for a while the BUSS was quitting on his promise to have a contender immediately. And he didnt draft Bynum to say HE quit on him. Kidd is a hall of famer and Drew was not ready to win yet, simple and plain. He never talked of not suiting up, YOU could never put QUIT and KOBE in the same sentence. THE team is lucky to have KOBE just as it was LUCKY to have SHAQ in his prime. And i do agree that this year Shaq could help but in 2, maybe as a veteran presence, i mean mutumbo was effective until he was 40 mso anything is possible.

Kobe wanted his own team and he got it. The front office can't wave a magic wand to get talented players here. You all are thinking 1-dimensionally: Kobe. That's it. That's the only point of view you are looking at, and that's all you care about. This franchise is bigger than just Kobe. They've tried to get premiere players here, but it's not that easy. They aren't going to compromise the future of the franchise for one person, I don't care who it is. The front office, for the 3 years after Shaq left, was trying to build a contender now while still building for a bright future. You know how hard that is? Just look at the past decade.

-Miami, one championship, and they're done.
-Dallas made one Finals appearance, and they are now done.
-Celtics, after the big 3 are gone, they don't have much to work with.
-New Jersey had a couple finals appearances early this decade, and now they haven't even made the playoffs for a while.
-Sixers had a finals appearance in 2001 and they're still trying to build a contender 7-8 years later.
-Indiana had a contender early this decade, but now their also still rebuilding several years later.
-Kings had a great contender earlier this decade, but they've been trying to rebuild the past several years.
-Suns, they never even reached the finals while having one of the most talented teams in the league the past 3-4 years.
-T-Wolves had a couple years of contention, but they went downhill after '04 and are still rebuilding.
-All the other teams have been building or rebuilding far longer than the Lakers have and yet we are light years ahead of them.
-The only two consistent teams were the Spurs (who were unable to win a back-to-back, something all great dynasties were able to do), and the Pistons, and the Pistons fell short most of the time (something like 7-8 conference finals, but only 2 finals and 1 championship).

What this franchise did in its 4th season is just incredible. We have a contender NOW. And our FUTURE is bright. We have the potential of a contender even after our superstar has retired. And that's not BECAUSE of Kobe's trade demands (or whatever you want to call it). It's DESPITE his trade demands we were able to build this incredible team. Buss, Mitch, they didn't quit on this team, nor did they quit on Kobe. They were just thinking of something bigger than Kobe: this franchise and its future. And they did it. All despite Kobe's rants and complaints.

Edited by daco_inc, November 23, 2008 - 10:11 AM.


#166 Icker

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 10:09 AM

Kobe wanted his own team and he got it. The front office can't wave a magic wand to get talented players here. You all are thinking 1-dimensionally: Kobe. That's it. That's the only point of view you are looking at, and that's all you care about. This franchise is bigger than just Kobe. They've tried to get premiere players here, but it's not that easy. They aren't going to compromise the future of the franchise for one person, I don't care who it is. The front office, for the 3 years after Shaq left, was trying to build a contender now while still building for a bright future. You know how hard that is? Just look at the past decade.

-Miami, one championship, and they're done.
-Dallas made one Finals appearance, and they are now done.
-Celtics, after the big 3 are gone, they don't have much to work with.
-New Jersey had a couple finals appearances early this decade, and now they haven't even made the playoffs for a while.
-Sixers had a finals appearance in 2001 and they're still trying to build a contender 7-8 years later.
-Indiana had a contender early this decade, but now their also still rebuilding several years later.
-Kings had a great contender earlier this decade, but they've been trying to rebuild the past several years.
-Suns, they never even reached the finals while having one of the most talented teams in the league the past 3-4 years.
-T-Wolves had a couple years of contention, but they went downhill after '04 and are still rebuilding.
-All the other teams have been building or rebuilding far longer than the Lakers have and yet we are light years ahead of them.
-The only two consistent teams were the Spurs (who were unable to win a back-to-back, something all great dynasties were able to do), and the Pistons, and the Pistons fell short most of the time (something like 7-8 conference finals, but only 2 finals and 1 championship).

What this franchise did in its 4th season is just incredible. We have a contender NOW. And our FUTURE is bright. We have the potential of a contender even after our superstar has retired. And that's not BECAUSE of Kobe's trade demands (or whatever you want to call it). It's DESPITE his trade demands we were able to build this incredible team. Buss, Mitch, they didn't quit on this team, nor did they quit on Kobe. They were just thinking of something bigger than Kobe: this franchise and its future. And they did it. All despite Kobe.

I love you

#167 kobynum

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 12:39 PM

its not ONLY to do with kobe's demands but that played a part in the sense of urgency. i think that without Kobe's demands we would have probably traded bynum(yes you read me right) but got something not worth value in return (i.e. jermaine o'neal), but since kobe could have been gone, bynum was a back-up plan. Futhermore, i know that the lakers should be commended for rebuilding a contender, but they had the greatese player in the world to build around. let's compare...dallas built a contending team as soon as Cuban got there so its not impossible to build a conteneder fast. Also kobe never said he wanted his own team... him and Shaq didnt get along period. if the Lakers could have got another super star for shaq(i.e KG) kobe would have been more than happy to share the spotlight. plus you guys are missing the most important element.USS told KOBE that he would do everything possible to build a contender right away. So passing up on baron davis and BOOZ b/c of injuries they have sustauined, only to see them lead thier respective teams into the playoffs causd even more anger on Kobe's behalf. You guys want someone like KG who will keep losing until the franchise trades you. Anyway this is dumb we have a contender with a DECENT future, if we can keep Bynum, Ariza and Farmar, if they stay healthy, but Kobe has a lot to do with that. And i challenge you guys to say we can be a playoff team without Kobe.
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#168 lakerfool

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 01:04 PM

^ the fool in your name is justified according to your last comment. In the offseason when kobe ranted, the Lakers werent HIS team. He PLAYED for the team, but this isnt the team he envisioned, nor was it the team promised to him or LAKER fans like myself. I definetely am a KOBE fan, and still I am a team first guy. Kobe ASKING not demanding a trade, was understandable. you guys seem to forget that most players on Kobe's level(i.e. jordan, bird MAGIC) didnt have to play with poor players during thier PRIME. Kobe had to do ridicolous things for the team to win and to lose to the SUNS, who werent even built for a title, but had a considerably better chance at winning than us was beyond frustrating. Kobe is a human like all of his, if the place he is working isnt up to par then he has the right to leave. QUIT ON HIS TEAM, no it seemed for a while the BUSS was quitting on his promise to have a contender immediately. And he didnt draft Bynum to say HE quit on him. Kidd is a hall of famer and Drew was not ready to win yet, simple and plain. He never talked of not suiting up, YOU could never put QUIT and KOBE in the same sentence. THE team is lucky to have KOBE just as it was LUCKY to have SHAQ in his prime. And i do agree that this year Shaq could help but in 2, maybe as a veteran presence, i mean mutumbo was effective until he was 40 mso anything is possible.


I just DID put QUIT and Kobe in the same sentence. Are you going to cry? He QUIT on his team.

He wanted his own team, and he QUIT. He couldn't get us to the finales alone like he THOUGHT he could. And he saw that we were in poor position to make a deal, so he QUIT on the team.

Boohoohoo. He had to lose to the suns. He makes 20 million dollars a year. I'll save my tears for Sudanese starving children, while you cry for amillionaire spoiled brat who couldn't swallow his pride and admit that he failed to get the team far on his own like he thought he would.

But the difference between you and I is I also see Shaquille O'Neal as a childish Prima Dona whose been spoiled his whole life, and whines about nothing.

You can only admit Shaq is one. While I can admit both are.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#169 daco_inc

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 01:29 PM

its not ONLY to do with kobe's demands but that played a part in the sense of urgency. i think that without Kobe's demands we would have probably traded bynum(yes you read me right) but got something not worth value in return (i.e. jermaine o'neal), but since kobe could have been gone, bynum was a back-up plan. Futhermore, i know that the lakers should be commended for rebuilding a contender, but they had the greatese player in the world to build around. let's compare...dallas built a contending team as soon as Cuban got there so its not impossible to build a conteneder fast. Also kobe never said he wanted his own team... him and Shaq didnt get along period. if the Lakers could have got another super star for shaq(i.e KG) kobe would have been more than happy to share the spotlight. plus you guys are missing the most important element.USS told KOBE that he would do everything possible to build a contender right away. So passing up on baron davis and BOOZ b/c of injuries they have sustauined, only to see them lead thier respective teams into the playoffs causd even more anger on Kobe's behalf. You guys want someone like KG who will keep losing until the franchise trades you. Anyway this is dumb we have a contender with a DECENT future, if we can keep Bynum, Ariza and Farmar, if they stay healthy, but Kobe has a lot to do with that. And i challenge you guys to say we can be a playoff team without Kobe.

I didn't say building a contender was impossible, but it's not easy. And it's definitely a lot harder to build a contender now and have a bright future. Like i said, Dallas had their chance a few years ago, and now they're done with an uncertain future.

Trade Bynum for Jermaine without Kobe's demands? That makes no sense whatsoever. Kobe's complaints was probably why they tried so hard to shop him for Jermaine. Passing on players because of LEGITIMATE concerns is the wrong thing to do? Please stop with this nonsense. Sorry but I'm tired of this one-sided, Kobe-only point-of-view. I'm tired of people trying to justify his mistakes, or trying to find silver lining in all his bad choices. Take that stuff to kb24.com. "Kobe this. Kobe that." It's getting really old, and really annoying.

And yes we are a playoff team without Kobe. Are you kidding me? We have the deepest team in the league. Even without our leader, we are still VERY deep and would manage to make the playoffs. The reason we're killing teams is not because of Kobe, but because of our DEPTH. Probably not championship caliber, but playoffs? Definitely, especially with the way the rest of west is playing. Stop trying to deify Kobe.

#170 Icker

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 01:37 PM

I just DID put QUIT and Kobe in the same sentence. Are you going to cry? He QUIT on his team.

He wanted his own team, and he QUIT. He couldn't get us to the finales alone like he THOUGHT he could. And he saw that we were in poor position to make a deal, so he QUIT on the team.

Boohoohoo. He had to lose to the suns. He makes 20 million dollars a year. I'll save my tears for Sudanese starving children, while you cry for amillionaire spoiled brat who couldn't swallow his pride and admit that he failed to get the team far on his own like he thought he would.

But the difference between you and I is I also see Shaquille O'Neal as a childish Prima Dona whose been spoiled his whole life, and whines about nothing.

You can only admit Shaq is one. While I can admit both are.



I didn't say building a contender was impossible, but it's not easy. And it's definitely a lot harder to build a contender now and have a bright future. Like i said, Dallas had their chance a few years ago, and now they're done with an uncertain future.

Trade Bynum for Jermaine without Kobe's demands? That makes no sense whatsoever. Kobe's complaints was probably why they tried so hard to shop him for Jermaine. Passing on players because of LEGITIMATE concerns is the wrong thing to do? Please stop with this nonsense. Sorry but I'm tired of this one-sided, Kobe-only point-of-view. I'm tired of people trying to justify his mistakes, or trying to find silver lining in all his bad choices. Take that stuff to kb24.com. "Kobe this. Kobe that." It's getting really old, and really annoying.

And yes we are a playoff team without Kobe. Are you kidding me? We have the deepest team in the league. Even without our leader, we are still VERY deep and would manage to make the playoffs. The reason we're killing teams is not because of Kobe, but because of our DEPTH. Probably not championship caliber, but playoffs? Definitely, especially with the way the rest of west is playing. Stop trying to deify Kobe.

I love you guys

#171 Mo Rings

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 03:44 PM

The truth is somewhere in the middle, but leaning against Daco.....



Just sayin'

#172 kobynum

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 04:15 PM

well, i hope Kobe doesnt miss any games, b/c then u will see, our team may be the deepest, but u take one person away, and all of a sudden people roles changes. put it like this, we thought we were deep b4 the celtics beat us down. And Buss was trying to find answers b4 Kpobe's demands. he has pride and he charges his season ticket holders a great deal, so there were going to be changes whether Kobe demanded a trade or not.
KOBE is the Lakers for the moment. Without Kobe, we would have to rebuild. We have no GREAT players other than KObe. Pau is great offensively, and he couldnt take memphis to 1 playoff victory. And the rest of our guys arent great either. We have the Best player in the GAME. He leads this ship along with Phil.
Kobe is human, but as far as I am concerned he can do no wrong,b/c of what he has already proven.
It's team first, but my team is the Lakers and kobe is the only superstar that can fit in with this team. imagine if we had the great LeBron, missing jumpers and free throws in the clutch. it just would not feel right.
I know you wont agree, but watch that first unit, when Kobe gets 0 touches, see how smoothly things work.

i love my Lakers, but I am a realistic, w/o Kobe the team is barely scraping in the play offs
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#173 daco_inc

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 04:29 PM

but as far as I am concerned he can do no wrong

Well there goes any chance of me, and probably everyone else, taking you seriously.

#174 ReaListik

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Posted November 23, 2008 - 04:59 PM

No-one will know what kind of things would have or could have happened had Kobe not sent a serious threat to the Lakers management. It really comes down to how you judge his actions. We as fans don't see or know what goes on behind the scenes. According to Kobe there were a few moves that could have been made that in his eyes were there for the taking but Laker management passed up on them for their own reasons and concerns. From that he believed they weren't doing everything they could possibly do to build a winner, and as a result he thought they lied to him.

I fully believe that Kobe wants to be a Laker for life, but cares more about winning than the name on the front of the jersey, and because of that desire he took a very aggressive approach to try to get the message across that not many other stars had done yet, and if they did it wasn't to the degree that he took it. I think he could've handled it a lot better by just keeping it within the doors of management, but then again I don't know the Laker management personally, and I don't know what it would really take to get them to do something..and it's arrogant to assume otherwise. You may think that a particular trade is a no-brainer move according to your own analysis, but not everyone is always going to agree with your assessment. If Laker management was going based on the fan's analysis strictly this organization would have had Jermaine O'Neal and KG a long with Baron Davis and whatever other name has floated since 2005. When I say that I'm not talking about this forum alone, but a majority of the lakers fan forums where off-season threads were huge with pipe dreams.

This is an exciting year to be a Laker fan, and no matter the drama that's taken place to get here, enjoy it because it won't be around forever and I personally wouldn't want to sit around [expletive]ing about who's fault was this and that and the other.

Edited by ReaListik, November 23, 2008 - 05:02 PM.

"We are the goodest" - Shaq during an interview on ESPN.

#175 kobynum

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Posted November 26, 2008 - 06:10 PM

^ I FULLY AGREE
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers




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