Jump to content




Photo

What's Up With Our Perimeter Defense?


  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#41 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,872 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 03, 2008 - 06:30 PM

Heard it all before, Scooter, last year...when we were arguably the best team in the NBA.

Getting to the Finals means nothing. There's only one winner, and everyone else loses.

We need defense. Whatever it takes to win it all, that's what we need to do...not sit on our hands and keep talking about our 14-2 record (which is what Sacramento did forever, as well as Dallas and Phoenix).

#42 BadScooter

BadScooter

    Rookie

  • 600 posts
  • Joined: Aug 07, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 03, 2008 - 06:39 PM

Do you see my crying?


"Wahhhhh. My favorite team's perimeter defense is only good enough for a 15-2 record. Woe is us. Wahhhh."

Fact is, teams like Boston will eat us alive with no perimeter defense.


So we haven't played ANY teams yet with decent perimeter players? Not one?


Life isn't like a video game where you can compensate for low ratings with good skills ;). Defense matters, and Fisher nor Farmar can play defense.


You're right, but two players are not greater than the team as a whole. They play good enough defense and bring a lot of other important skills to the table that have been key to us winning. Taking them out of the line-up and inserting some imagined defensive specialist PG will not necessarily make us a better team.

Everytime we are winning, it's "THere's nothing wrong".


No, we have weaknesses. Every team does. The elite ones (us, the Celtics, the Cavs) have the coaching staff and talent to overcome them. It's early in the season. We're only going to get better.

When we are losing, people realize there is a problem at PG.


No, when we lose people overreact, whine and make irrational threads and posts.

#43 Nirvana

Nirvana

    Come as you are

  • 5,534 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Location:Oh well, whatever, nevermind

Posted December 03, 2008 - 06:42 PM

Heard it all before, Scooter, last year...when we were arguably the best team in the NBA.

Getting to the Finals means nothing. There's only one winner, and everyone else loses.

We need defense. Whatever it takes to win it all, that's what we need to do...not sit on our hands and keep talking about our 14-2 record (which is what Sacramento did forever, as well as Dallas and Phoenix).


No arguing with this post.

Sums up everything perfectly.
Kurt Cobain - "Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are."

#44 BadScooter

BadScooter

    Rookie

  • 600 posts
  • Joined: Aug 07, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 03, 2008 - 06:43 PM

Heard it all before, Scooter, last year...when we were arguably the best team in the NBA.

Getting to the Finals means nothing. There's only one winner, and everyone else loses.

We need defense. Whatever it takes to win it all, that's what we need to do...not sit on our hands and keep talking about our 14-2 record (which is what Sacramento did forever, as well as Dallas and Phoenix).



Our defense is better this year and among the top D's in the league.

Getting to the Finals means nothing? Tell that to fans of the Clippers, Grizzlies, Thundercats or other bottom dweller.

I agree with you that we need to do whatever it takes to win and improve, but again: we have the deepest, most versatile team in the league and our potential is through the roof.

There is NO need to make trades when the team is clicking.

#45 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,872 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 03, 2008 - 06:51 PM

Our defense is better this year and among the top D's in the league.

We are 11th in points allowed, which is near average. We hold teams to poor shooting percentages, but are 26th in assists allowed, which is pathetic (and Boston is first, by the way).

We are 17th in rebounds allowed.

We are among the top teams in blocks per game, but don't be surprised: the #1 team in BPG is the Warriors, and the Clippers are 3rd, and they aren't very good defensively, at all (GSW are said to be one of the worst defensive teams, actually).

We rank on top in steals per game. Good for us.

We are not among the top defensive teams in the NBA...we are almost near average, just a bit above it. There are six, seven or eight teams better than us, defensively...probably more.

Just wait until we get roasted by Chris Paul in the playoffs, or when Pierce bakes us once again. The regular season only gives us home court, but even that doesn't give us a ring.

As for the comment about the other teams that struggle every year, what's the point of bringing them up? At the end of the day, 29 of us don't get a ring. That's all that matters.

#46 BadScooter

BadScooter

    Rookie

  • 600 posts
  • Joined: Aug 07, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:07 PM

We are 11th in points allowed, which is near average. We hold teams to poor shooting percentages, but are 26th in assists allowed, which is pathetic (and Boston is first, by the way).

We are 17th in rebounds allowed.

We are among the top teams in blocks per game, but don't be surprised: the #1 team in BPG is the Warriors, and the Clippers are 3rd, and they aren't very good defensively, at all (GSW are said to be one of the worst defensive teams, actually).

We rank on top in steals per game. Good for us.

We are not among the top defensive teams in the NBA...we are almost near average, just a bit above it. There are six, seven or eight teams better than us, defensively...probably more.

Just wait until we get roasted by Chris Paul in the playoffs, or when Pierce bakes us once again. The regular season only gives us home court, but even that doesn't give us a ring.

As for the comment about the other teams that struggle every year, what's the point of bringing them up? At the end of the day, 29 of us don't get a ring. That's all that matters.


And trading Odom for a defensive PG that probably isn't on the market fixes EVERY one of those problems?

Or better yet: fixes them better than playing out the season and improving over the course of 65 games like elite teams do?

I can't think of any team with a roster with the depth and potential that we have. The season isn't even a fourth over and ya'll want to blow it up before we even get into a groove.

#47 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 19,198 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:16 PM

the only defensive point guard on the market is kirk hinrich but hes just so damn foul prone

and is

bynum-mihm
gasol-luke/powell
vlad-ariza
kobe-sasha
hinrich-fisher-farmar

how much better is that than our current line-up
Posted Image

#48 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,872 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:36 PM

And trading Odom for a defensive PG that probably isn't on the market fixes EVERY one of those problems?

Or better yet: fixes them better than playing out the season and improving over the course of 65 games like elite teams do?

I can't think of any team with a roster with the depth and potential that we have. The season isn't even a fourth over and ya'll want to blow it up before we even get into a groove.

Why wouldn't Hinrich be on the market? Rose and Hughes are playing over him, pre-injury...and now he's out for a while.

If we can get Hinrich and Tyrus, somehow...or even Noah and Hinrich...that would work wonders for us.

But, it's not like I'm wanting to do this suddenly. I've been wanting to trade Odom since we got him in 2004.

#49 lakerfool

lakerfool

    Off The Bench

  • PipPip
  • 2,051 posts
  • Joined: Aug 08, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:bynum

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:47 PM

TRADE ODOM FOR HINRICH

TRADE ODOM FOR HINRICH

TRADE ODOM FOR HINRICH

TRADE ODOM FOR HINRICH

TRADE ODOM FOR HINRICH
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#50 hype

hype

    says hi!

  • PipPipPip
  • 3,739 posts
  • Joined: Jul 27, 2008
  • Location:Costa Mesa, CA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:52 PM

I think we'd really miss Odom the playmaker in the 2nd unit though - which means that Phil would probably play Walton again. Odom's just not utilizing his skills right now (and you could argue that he's never utilized all his tools) but we'll definitely struggle without the luxury of having a guy that can do everything.

And plus we shouldn't rush to trade, what good would an injured Hinrich be anyway?

#51 insert coin here

insert coin here

    I killed Kwame Brown.

  • 1,759 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2008
  • Location:In my toilet bowl.
  • Fan Since:Forever.
  • Fav. Laker:Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:53 PM

The only defensive PGs I like is either Earl Watson or Chris Duhon.

Edited by Kwame is in my closet, December 03, 2008 - 07:53 PM.

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
Karl Marx


#52 lakerfool

lakerfool

    Off The Bench

  • PipPip
  • 2,051 posts
  • Joined: Aug 08, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:bynum

Posted December 03, 2008 - 07:54 PM

I think we'd really miss Odom the playmaker in the 2nd unit though - which means that Phil would probably play Walton again. Odom's just not utilizing his skills right now (and you could argue that he's never utilized all his tools) but we'll definitely struggle without the luxury of having a guy that can do everything.

And plus we shouldn't rush to trade, what good would an injured Hinrich be anyway?


We don't need playmakers.

Just make sure that when Kobe rests, Hinrich is on the floor, and when Hinrich rests, Kobe is on the floor, and voila, we have a play maker who is on the floor the whole time.

Considering Hinrich's stock is at an all time low

Hinrich/Tyrus Thomas

for

Odom/Sasha

Gordon is gone, so they can use Sasha as a cheap replacement. Tyrus is seen as a bust, and could be a nice project for the Lakers.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#53 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 19,198 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:28 PM

We don't need playmakers.

Just make sure that when Kobe rests, Hinrich is on the floor, and when Hinrich rests, Kobe is on the floor, and voila, we have a play maker who is on the floor the whole time.

Considering Hinrich's stock is at an all time low

Hinrich/Tyrus Thomas

for

Odom/Sasha

Gordon is gone, so they can use Sasha as a cheap replacement. Tyrus is seen as a bust, and could be a nice project for the Lakers.


first off sasha has been quietly beginning to shoot very well lately

if anything i would try

and this is maybe though i dont agree with trading odom yet

odom+mihm= 16 million in expirings

for

hinrich+nocioni= 16 million off the cap

now the talent drop for chicago may be somewhat significant but actually it alleviates some congestion and opens up playing time for sepholosha

gooden/ noah
odom/ thomas
deng/ sepholosha
gordon/ hughes
rose/ not quite sure

is actually not that bad

but getting nocioni and hinrich is pipe

but then again so are most deals

my favorite deal would be lamar+farmar for G. wallace+raymond felton
Posted Image

#54 lakerfool

lakerfool

    Off The Bench

  • PipPip
  • 2,051 posts
  • Joined: Aug 08, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:bynum

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:29 PM

first off sasha has been quietly beginning to shoot very well lately

if anything i would try

and this is maybe though i dont agree with trading odom yet

odom+mihm= 16 million in expirings

for

hinrich+nocioni= 16 million off the cap

now the talent drop for chicago may be somewhat significant but actually it alleviates some congestion and opens up playing time for sepholosha

gooden/ noah
odom/ thomas
deng/ sepholosha
gordon/ hughes
rose/ not quite sure

is actually not that bad

but getting nocioni and hinrich is pipe

but then again so are most deals

my favorite deal would be lamar+farmar for G. wallace+raymond felton



I'd do it in a heartbeat. The trade is very possible. I think all we'd need to do is throw in a future 1st.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#55 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 19,198 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:44 PM

I'd do it in a heartbeat. The trade is very possible. I think all we'd need to do is throw in a future 1st.


which one bobcats or bulls

i love the bobcats deal we get a defensive SF while getting a play maker at PG who has more potential and is only 23 years old and more defensive minded having played for roy williams
Posted Image

#56 Nirvana

Nirvana

    Come as you are

  • 5,534 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Location:Oh well, whatever, nevermind

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:50 PM

I'd do it in a heartbeat. The trade is very possible. I think all we'd need to do is throw in a future 1st.


I agree.

That trade would put us over the edge.

I doubt we'd lose many more games this season, in the regular season or the playoffs!
Kurt Cobain - "Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are."

#57 lakerfool

lakerfool

    Off The Bench

  • PipPip
  • 2,051 posts
  • Joined: Aug 08, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:bynum

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:51 PM

which one bobcats or bulls

i love the bobcats deal we get a defensive SF while getting a play maker at PG who has more potential and is only 23 years old and more defensive minded having played for roy williams

I find the bobcats deal impossible.

I'd be happy to trade Odom for ONE of those guys. I doubt we get both.

But the Bulls one is very possible.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#58 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 19,198 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:54 PM

I agree.

That trade would put us over the edge.

I doubt we'd lose many more games this season, in the regular season or the playoffs!


which one the bobcats or bulls
Posted Image

#59 Nirvana

Nirvana

    Come as you are

  • 5,534 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Location:Oh well, whatever, nevermind

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:56 PM

which one the bobcats or bulls


Either one of them.

I see the Bulls one having a much higher chance of happening. But either one of them would be amazing for our team. Gerald Wallce would be a perfect fit with Kobe, but Hinrich would be an excellent fit in the triangle. I'm not a massive Felton fan, but still, he'd be good.
Kurt Cobain - "Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are."

#60 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 19,198 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted December 03, 2008 - 08:57 PM

I find the bobcats deal impossible.

I'd be happy to trade Odom for ONE of those guys. I doubt we get both.

But the Bulls one is very possible.

not necessarily

there have been tons of rumors of them wanting wallace gone for a big man

and that they like augustine more than felton

well you give them their big man in lamar to pair up with okafor and lamar by the way has received more praise from larry brown than almost any other coach

in 2004 larry brown fell in love with lamar

then you have the felton situation yeah they lose felton but they get farmar back and can put him as the back-up and have augustine start which they desire
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users