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James Harden: I'm The Best All-Around Player In The NBA


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#61 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 11:59 AM

Everyone is talking about him being overrated.  What does that mean?  No one is saying Harden is a future HOF.  Outside of a healthy 12-13 Kobe no SG in the NBA is as productive as he is.  I dont wanna hear anything about Klay Thompson.  Like 83 percent of his shots are assisted.  He's a 3 and D player.  Harden is a dynamic offensive player that chooses to play terrible defense and has made a bad habit out of it.  It's not that Harden is overrated its just that the dominant SG of our time are older and the new and younger guys are not as good as him. 

 

DeMar Derozan, Klay, Beal, Waiters are not as good as James Harden. 


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#62 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 12:03 PM

Sometimes I think some of you post opinions w/o understanding the meaning of certain words or phrases.  For Harden to be "overrated" it has to be in comparison to something else.  If you are lining Harden up against 12-13 Kobe and saying he's overrated then sure, be my guest.  We are comparing Harden to an unknown most likely worse than 12-13 Kobe, Joe Johnson, Klay Thompson, Beal, Waiters, Monta and Derozan.  Harden is better than all of them.  Don't care what he did against Portland. 


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#63 JGuez

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 12:07 PM

^ You do realize you're posting in a topic called: 

 

James Harden: I'm The Best All-Around Player In The NBA

 

He himself is the one who overrated himself. You must get that, right?



#64 ajaxjs

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 12:09 PM

Sometimes I think some of you post opinions w/o understanding the meaning of certain words or phrases.  For Harden to be "overrated" it has to be in comparison to something else.  If you are lining Harden up against 12-13 Kobe and saying he's overrated then sure, be my guest.  We are comparing Harden to an unknown most likely worse than 12-13 Kobe, Joe Johnson, Klay Thompson, Beal, Waiters, Monta and Derozan.  Harden is better than all of them.  Don't care what he did against Portland. 

 

Dude. The reason Harden is overrated is if you force him to work hard on defense...Really ride him in such a way as to expose his laziness, the Rockets almost ALWAYS lose, absent some career performance from one of their roleplayers (or like that one game last year where Lin suddenly showed up in Knicks form against us).

 

If he's left to his own devices, he just rampages. This is true. Also. There is the perception that he's just way too good/lucky/favored by the refs at drawing fouls. It's like he's the perfect size and build and just crafty enough in his flying elbows routine to get the benefit of the doubt.


Edited by ajaxjs, September 16, 2014 - 12:10 PM.


#65 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 12:34 PM

No one ever said BUT HIM that he was the best all around player.  I've read the topic and disagreed with the statement as well.  What I also disagree with is trying to lower him as a player out of personal bias and a youtube video full of terrible defense.  He's the best SG in the NBA BY DEFAULT.  It's not really a compliment to him right now.  I just think it's stupid that someone that understands bball would try to argue that the likes of Beal or Thompson are better basketball players.  They aren't. 

 

^ You do realize you're posting in a topic called: 

 

 

He himself is the one who overrated himself. You must get that, right?


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#66 ajaxjs

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 01:03 PM

No one ever said BUT HIM that he was the best all around player.  I've read the topic and disagreed with the statement as well.  What I also disagree with is trying to lower him as a player out of personal bias and a youtube video full of terrible defense.  He's the best SG in the NBA BY DEFAULT.  It's not really a compliment to him right now.  I just think it's stupid that someone that understands bball would try to argue that the likes of Beal or Thompson are better basketball players.  They aren't. 

 

Well. I think that says a lot about the evolution (or rather, the devolution) of the SG in the modern NBA. If you're contending that Harden is the best to follow in the Kobe and Jordan tradition...Sure, even though he's worse than either at their prime. But the game belongs to point guards and forwards at the moment.



#67 kball

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 01:13 PM

So now there are no 2 guards AND no centers either?

How is it possible?

Seems the league as a result (and maybe a few other reasons) has never been more balanced.


Edited by kball, September 16, 2014 - 01:14 PM.

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#68 JGuez

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 01:40 PM

No one ever said BUT HIM that he was the best all around player.

 

Yes, and that is what the topic is. He is overrating himself. At least, that's what I'm talking about anyways.

 

 

I've read the topic and disagreed with the statement as well.  What I also disagree with is trying to lower him as a player out of personal bias and a youtube video full of terrible defense.  He's the best SG in the NBA BY DEFAULT.  It's not really a compliment to him right now.  I just think it's stupid that someone that understands bball would try to argue that the likes of Beal or Thompson are better basketball players.  They aren't. 

 
I don't personally think he's the best SG in the league right now. Like you said, the SG spot is incredibly weak at the moment but I would personally take Monta Ellis right now over James Harden. 
 
I love Klay Thompson but he can't effect the game the same way Ellis or Harden do since they can pass. Klay's defense is really good though.
 
And like you said, that doesn't mean I think Monta Ellis is amazing. It's just the position is in a drought of great players at the moment.


#69 ajaxjs

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 02:19 PM

So now there are no 2 guards AND no centers either?

How is it possible?

Seems the league as a result (and maybe a few other reasons) has never been more balanced.

 

2s are definitely in better shape than centers. But compared to like, the 90s and early 2000s, the 2 position has definitely taken a beating. Guys that would normally have been 2s, are now expected to be 1s with passing skill. 1s have more emphasis on being a shooting threat like 2s, and less a floor general. These days, the floor general is simply expected to be the best guy on the team, whatever position he plays.


Is all this not true?

 

EDIT: It's also important to note that Centers have taken a beating because they're expected to be as athletic as a forward now, when in the past, they could be a big tall, slow white guy (like you still see on FIBA teams, lol). That's why the Center position is suffering. It's SO HARD to find guys that tall who are athletic. Dwight Howard isn't even that tall (he's at least an inch and a half shorter than his bio claims, if you've seen him standing next to Pau Gasol). The European approach to this conundrum is to teach the big slow white guys passing and handling skills, like we see in Pau and Dirk. And D'Antoni STILL tried playing Pau like a forward...Must stay on track.

 

2s are in better shape because there are a lot more guys in the 6'2-6'6 range who can still step it up. But NO ONE is looking for the next Harden or Kobe Bryant, even though they're at the upper end of that spectrum. They're looking for the next Lebron or Durant.

 

And someone'll say 'Yeah but Andrew Wiggins went #1'. Yeah, well, Andrew Wiggins is 6'8 and was basically taken as a Small Forward/Future Kawhi Leonard, and just proves my point, whatever the letters are next to his name. Shooting guard is still a big deal in high school/college play/pickup with your bros, and that's what misinforms most people to the NBA reality.

 

Kyrie Irving is 6'3 and is exactly what the league hopes and expects from the PG position nowadays. Don't want to turn this into a novel, but everything I talked about above, which had the effect of shoving a lot more guys into contention for the 1 spot, is also why we're in a golden age of point guards at the moment. It's way easier to learn handling/passing skills than to go back in time and be born differently, and there's no longer the burden of being the smartest guy on the team. (Lin was also a SG during college...and tons of other guys).


Edited by ajaxjs, September 16, 2014 - 03:21 PM.


#70 lonlyamongus

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 04:23 PM

Based on what outside of your personal bias against Harden?  Im not even close to being a Harden fan but he's one of the top offensive players in the NBA.  His defense is terrible by choice but a lot of that speaks to his BA coach in McHale.  Bradley Beal shouldnt even be in the discussion of best anything. 

Harden is not a good offensive player, he is a smart offensive player.  His problem is not stats, but his willingness to actually make a basket on lay-up instead trying to throw his elbow around and draw foul is my main problem.  And if you look at Harden, he is not a explosive player, his knees are actually very weak compare to most of other good NBA guards.  It is the main reason why he got blow by so many players on D.  Defense need a lot of knee at work to provide the player with acceleration and change of direction.  Harden never have that explosiveness in his knees to provide a fast first step or a sudden change of direction.  

 

  now brings to the second point.  he has to use foul rule as his weapon to score, because he don't have the ability to dribble penetrate opposing side's D to score.  He throw his elbow because if he doesn't, he will be blocked almost 50% of the time when he try to penetrate into the paint.  By doing so his defender will have a more reserved approach when guarding him to avoid foul trouble.  The problem with Harden's approach was that in a slower offense which almost will happen in any playoff games and you need to grind it out for points, he can't penetrate.  He don't have the speed to break away from his defender, and he don't like to pass, ending the possessions mostly to outside shots.  And he is not a polished mid range shooter, not even a good 3 shooter.  That's why i don't think he will ever be the best SG, simply he don't have the physique of one.  And please none of that he has a Euro-step crap, it only works during transition.  Once the defense settle down, He will be forced to take a lot of outside shots as he has no tool to penetrate.  

 

i would never rank him as the top offense player just based on 50% of his dribble penetration have the intention of try drawing foul and not making the bucket.  I kind of blame NBA rules for the creation of players like Harden, back in the 80s or 90s, he would be roughed up trying to pull something like that by players such as Rodman, Artest, or the Detroit bad boys.


Edited by lonlyamongus, September 16, 2014 - 06:01 PM.

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#71 MrKnowItAll

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 05:09 PM

Kobe is the best SG in the league. Why is this even being discussed?

#72 L4K

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 05:39 PM

Kobe is the best SG in the league. Why is this even being discussed?

 

Because nobody honestly knows if he is anymore. Last season he barely played and you can only rely on previous accomplishments for so long. I hope Kobe comes back this season with a reworked game to compensate for his loss of speed and athleticism and shows people he's still the best SG in the league but until or unless that happens you can't say that he's the best SG in the league anymore. Harden was the best scoring SG in the league last season but as a two-way player I think Klay Thompson is better.



#73 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 05:48 PM

Kobe played 6 games last year and I think everyone is forgetting he actually CRACKED his leg where it meets his knee last year.  I think the achilles comeback has a lot people overlooking why he sat last year. 

 

Kobe is the best SG in the league. Why is this even being discussed?


Edited by Jody Smokes, September 16, 2014 - 05:48 PM.

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#74 ajaxjs

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 06:13 PM

Kobe is the best SG in the league. Why is this even being discussed?

 

It's not my intention to bandwagon on this comment like a Miami sports fan, (thanks Miami, we need a city to make Los Angeles sports fans look better), but duuude. Kobe is the best in our hearts, and he's no doubt got his heroic intangibles, but I'll be blown away if he even comes close to Wizards Jordan.


Edited by ajaxjs, September 16, 2014 - 09:53 PM.


#75 MrKnowItAll

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 06:31 PM

Lakers lose Kobe for one season... Have worst season in franchise history. The great thing about this is we'll be able to see Kobe matchup against harden on the first day of the season. Can't wait.

#76 Majesty

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Posted September 16, 2014 - 07:17 PM

Lakers lose Kobe for one season... Have worst season in franchise history. 


Cause he da real mvp :) 


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#77 martin90

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Posted Yesterday, 04:29 AM

Kobe is the best SG in the league. Why is this even being discussed?






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