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Is it Durant or bust?


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#241 Harry Styles

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Posted August 12, 2014 - 04:02 PM

Interesting Jody that you think Gordon Hayward is a productive player with his 16 points at 41 % shooting when you hated on Nick Young all of last off-season and season as nothing really productive and noted his 42% - 44% shooting prior as reasoning for it. 

Must be the assists. 

Or you know it could be because Gordon is 5 years younger and can only improve further. Nick Young is as good as he'll be and that's not very much. 



#242 Harry Styles

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Posted August 12, 2014 - 04:03 PM

Dammit Jody  :bleh:



#243 Majesty

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Posted August 12, 2014 - 04:36 PM

Interesting that you can't see that Hayward 23 and Young is 29 and has exhibited he's a much more well rounded offensive player and basketball player than Young is. They bought into Hayward's potential plus his talent. Not really going to explain any further though than that but I wouldnt have offered Hayward a max deal but I understand why he got one.

Oh you believe in potential and ability to improve in the 23 year old Hayward? Weren't you the one who was advocating how Wes was the player he initially was gonna be at 25-6 and wasn't gonna change much and not believing in his potential initially too?

Must be the assists.

I'm willing to bet if we were the ones that signed Hayward you'd be the first to point out his field goal percentage has been dropping every year for the past 4 seasons from 49 to 41 and that the reason his points are where they are is because he got the most shots on a terrible team which you echod for any Laker that succeeded this year.


But hey..must be the assists :)

Edited by Majesty, August 12, 2014 - 04:39 PM.

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#244 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 06:32 AM

You're really starting to make some idiotic comments and arguments.  So now we are comparing the potential of Wes Johnson to Hayward?  Hayward has always been better than Wes Johnson and I never said I believed in him like that I said those teams that offered him the deal did and I can't exactly blame them.  It's hard to get talent in the NBA as a small market team like the Hornets and Jazz so overpaying for a 23 year old that has a good ceiling so they can be mid level seed teams is worth it.  A team like the Lakers doing that isn't very smart IMO. 

 

You're just wanting to argue lol.  You are usually more on point than this.  These are troll level arguments you are presenting.  Wes Johnson in his 4th year just put up identical stats to his rookie year (below avg btw) when he had the biggest opportunity to showcase any improvement.  Look at what Meeks, Marshall, Hill and Young did with their time and now you want to compare what I said about Wes to Hayward?  Try again man. 

 

 

Oh you believe in potential and ability to improve in the 23 year old Hayward? Weren't you the one who was advocating how Wes was the player he initially was gonna be at 25-6 and wasn't gonna change much and not believing in his potential initially too?

Must be the assists.

I'm willing to bet if we were the ones that signed Hayward you'd be the first to point out his field goal percentage has been dropping every year for the past 4 seasons from 49 to 41 and that the reason his points are where they are is because he got the most shots on a terrible team which you echod for any Laker that succeeded this year.


But hey..must be the assists :)


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#245 gque24

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 06:55 AM

HArd Dose of Reality = Shots Fired

Oh you believe in potential and ability to improve in the 23 year old Hayward? Weren't you the one who was advocating how Wes was the player he initially was gonna be at 25-6 and wasn't gonna change much and not believing in his potential initially too?

Must be the assists.

I'm willing to bet if we were the ones that signed Hayward you'd be the first to point out his field goal percentage has been dropping every year for the past 4 seasons from 49 to 41 and that the reason his points are where they are is because he got the most shots on a terrible team which you echod for any Laker that succeeded this year.


But hey..must be the assists :)


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#246 Majesty

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 10:49 AM

You're really starting to make some idiotic comments and arguments.  So now we are comparing the potential of Wes Johnson to Hayward?  Hayward has always been better than Wes Johnson and I never said I believed in him like that I said those teams that offered him the deal did and I can't exactly blame them.  It's hard to get talent in the NBA as a small market team like the Hornets and Jazz so overpaying for a 23 year old that has a good ceiling so they can be mid level seed teams is worth it.  A team like the Lakers doing that isn't very smart IMO. 

 

You're just wanting to argue lol.  You are usually more on point than this.  These are troll level arguments you are presenting.  Wes Johnson in his 4th year just put up identical stats to his rookie year (below avg btw) when he had the biggest opportunity to showcase any improvement.  Look at what Meeks, Marshall, Hill and Young did with their time and now you want to compare what I said about Wes to Hayward?  Try again man. 



All this stuff really Jody you're saying doesn't take away from the point of what I said. 

Gordon Hayward has been slipping ever since his first year.

His field goal percentage has dropped from 49 to 41% across 4 seasons. 

His shots increased, his efficiency dropped.  

You believe in his ability to get better still. 

If Hayward was a Laker you'd be the first person to state how his efficiency dropped, how he probably is who he is after 4 years into the league(just like Wesley Johnson) and is no longer a rookie, and on top of that you'd mention how he only averaged as many points as he did was because he got some of the most shots on a terrible Utah Jazz team that didn't have much else.  

Why wouldn't you?  Those are the exact same reasons you nitpicked at any Laker that did well this year, you referenced their time in the league, you referenced any drop off in efficiency they've had over their career, you talked about how their stats were inflated because they were the best player on a terrible team. 

But all of this rational you use when discussing anything to do with the Lakers goes out the window with a player not on the Lakers.  With Hayward you believe in his potential, believe he'll get better, understand why he got such an overpaid contract.  Yet you were willing to go on a tirade if Nick Young got more than 3 million dollars this off-season.   You said his high efficiency season was fake because he was the best player on a terrible team, you said he was nothing special and easily replaceable. You were talking about how Wes Johnson had been in the league 4 years(just as long as Hayward) and had yet to show improvement and is the guy he'll be for the rest of his career and wrote him off despite the fact that Wes' stats did in fact improve yearly and last year was his best year, he also shot a better percentage from the field and 3 than Hayward did but to you he was a bum cause his offense was 'inconsistent' ;)  So what's Hayward's?       

Yet Gordon Hayward that has slipped every year is not so replaceable because it's hard to find 'such a talent' at small forward in a small market team.  So the fact his FG% has dropped from 49 to 41, despite the fact when his role increased he didn't look that good, despite the fact he's been in the league 4 years and has seemingly only been getting less efficient, despite the fact his points are 'inflated' because he was the best player on a terrible team.  All that goes out the window and you'll believe in his potential and his ability to get better while you don't for players on the Lakers this year that had better seasons and not worse.  


That is what I'm pointing out quite frankly.   

So like I said, must be the assists.  


Edited by Majesty, August 13, 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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#247 MrRJ

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 11:09 AM

Why are we even comparing wes johnson and gordon hayward?

 

Hayward's numbers are better across the board.

 

Hayward is 23 (Johnson's age as a rookie)

 

Johnson is 26.


Edited by MrRJ, August 13, 2014 - 11:10 AM.


#248 Majesty

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 11:25 AM

Why are we even comparing wes johnson and gordon hayward?

 

Hayward's numbers are better across the board.

 

Hayward is 23 (Johnson's age as a rookie)

 

Johnson is 26.



It's not about Wes vs Gordon. 
 

It's about the fact he's gotten worse and less efficient in each of his 4 years. 
How his stats were inflated because he was the best player on a terrible team and even then he shot a terrible percentage which has dropped from 49-41% from his rookie season to now.  

Pretty much every single reason that any Laker that did well was criticized this year or how their stats should be thrown out of the window because of it.   But Gordon escapes that criticism and his potential is believed in despite him falling off since he got into the league.   I don't get why a player can get significantly worse over his 4 seasons and that be ignored to the point you say you believe in his potential to get better but you cut off other players and call them bums when they actually found ways to be more efficient in a season you throw out the window cause they were the best player on a terrible team(just like Hayward).    So I'm asking why all that rational was used to discredit any Laker that played well last season is left in the cupboard when it comes to Hayward.  

That's what I was asking.  it must be because of his assists cause everything else could be used to discredit his numbers like was used to discredit the people that played well for us this year for the same reasons even if their efficiency increased(while Haywards has continued to drop). 


Edited by Majesty, August 13, 2014 - 11:28 AM.

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#249 MrRJ

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 12:29 PM



It's not about Wes vs Gordon. 
 

It's about the fact he's gotten worse and less efficient in each of his 4 years. 
How his stats were inflated because he was the best player on a terrible team and even then he shot a terrible percentage which has dropped from 49-41% from his rookie season to now.  

Pretty much every single reason that any Laker that did well was criticized this year or how their stats should be thrown out of the window because of it.   But Gordon escapes that criticism and his potential is believed in despite him falling off since he got into the league.   I don't get why a player can get significantly worse over his 4 seasons and that be ignored to the point you say you believe in his potential to get better but you cut off other players and call them bums when they actually found ways to be more efficient in a season you throw out the window cause they were the best player on a terrible team(just like Hayward).    So I'm asking why all that rational was used to discredit any Laker that played well last season is left in the cupboard when it comes to Hayward.  

That's what I was asking.  it must be because of his assists cause everything else could be used to discredit his numbers like was used to discredit the people that played well for us this year for the same reasons even if their efficiency increased(while Haywards has continued to drop). 

 

As far as his numbers go they've improved every year. Even if you look at per 36 min numbers. Only FG% has dropped. Yes turnovers are up, but I think you'll see that with any player who handles the ball more.

 

So I'm not sure how you conclude that he's gotten worse every year.



#250 stillshining

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 12:36 PM

A fair comparison would be the best player and number 1 option on the Lakers because that's what Hayward is. The defensive attention Hayward gets is incomparable to Wesley. I get his point tho

#251 Majesty

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 02:16 PM

As far as his numbers go they've improved every year. Even if you look at per 36 min numbers. Only FG% has dropped. Yes turnovers are up, but I think you'll see that with any player who handles the ball more.

 

So I'm not sure how you conclude that he's gotten worse every year.



yes he's shown to struggle when his responsibilities increased. And he is now being paid as if he's the number one option.  That is not a good sign for a guy whose field goal percentage dropped when his responsibilities raised.  Gordon Hayward is now the franchise player for the Jazz.... and that is his responsibility now. 

Good grief. 
 

 

A fair comparison would be the best player and number 1 option on the Lakers because that's what Hayward is. The defensive attention Hayward gets is incomparable to Wesley. I get his point tho



Yes, if we compared it to someone like Nick Young whom was our best player last year

 

near 18 points a game on near 44% shooting which was actually his best season actually as well as 38% from three. 

 

But you got Jody because Gordon isn't a Laker going around here saying that Hayward is a better offensive player than Nick Young when the guy shot 41% from the field and 30% from three last year when his responsibility increased to be that of a scorer as well as him getting as many shots per game as Nick Young    :smh:  

But Nick Young's stats were inflated cause he was the best player on a bad team...but Hayward is a better offensive player despite looking worse offensively as the best player on a bad team.... 

It's either the assists or the fact that Jody always feels the need to be devils advocate when it comes to Lakers players or maybe he's just more critical.

Nah...Gotta be the assists.     


Edited by Majesty, August 13, 2014 - 02:23 PM.

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#252 stillshining

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 02:34 PM

Actually Pau Gasol was the best player and the number one option, Nick Young is a guy coming off the bench going against bench caliber players. Passing and creating for your teammates is part of offense so I would agree. Hayward is a better rebounder and a better defender while being younger

#253 Jody Smokes

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 04:03 PM

Not going to debate with him anymore, it's clear he's trying to cherry pick small things to build an argument for the sake of arguing.  Don't care how he feels.


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#254 Majesty

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 04:09 PM

Actually Pau Gasol was the best player and the number one option, Nick Young is a guy coming off the bench going against bench caliber players. Passing and creating for your teammates is part of offense so I would agree. Hayward is a better rebounder and a better defender while being younger


Yes he is.    problem is offensively I think we've already seen his ceiling. He's almost like a poor man's parsons but the better defender.  Franchise player he is not, if I was the Jazz I'd have let the Bobcats have him and ran at Stephenson with my cap space if you're gonna throw that kind of money at someone.  But that was the Jazz's choice. 


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#255 kingkobe

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Posted August 13, 2014 - 11:19 PM

Next year or at trade deadline it looks like bledsoe or munroe will also be available

Gs aint letting go pf klay

I think westbrook is more realistic then kd and hes a guy that needs to be the alpha 1a not 1b and hes young has ucla ties

I think westbrook derozan r realistic targets for la

If we go after bledsoe or munroe this year we need to just start filling the team with stars with upside


Once we have derozan bledsoe maybe one of bigs that will be available then we can go after the stars I think in a few years the greek freak will be a guy we need to go after 6 foot 10 shut down sf sg tht still has upside

We got fixated on love i said we wouldnt get him

Now its durant

Its better to fill a team with nice pieces then have empty cap space every year thats not working we need pieces we can start flipping for trades to get the all star we need i think we should go all in on bledsoe hes gonna probably be trade bait at the deadline
2016
Pg Bledsoe
Sg derozan
Sf greek greak
Pf randle rookie deal hopefully star at this point
C ??? Couple choices here lopez brothers depends on the money

I love bledsoe derozan and i think greek freak is a top 10 guy next few years hopefully by then randle is at an all star level then pick up a nice bench and we will compete again

#256 kball

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Posted August 14, 2014 - 05:58 AM


Yes he is.    problem is offensively I think we've already seen his ceiling. He's almost like a poor man's parsons but the better defender.  Franchise player he is not, if I was the Jazz I'd have let the Bobcats have him and ran at Stephenson with my cap space if you're gonna throw that kind of money at someone.  But that was the Jazz's choice. 

Not if you're Utah. That state is still lilly white.

I see both players contributing about equally though.

I like both. I like to watch both.

Upside for both.

Not sure either will be an allstar...but likely to put up almost all star like numbers and be overlooked


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