Jump to content




Photo

Philly could be scary going forward


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#41 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,184 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted March 28, 2014 - 02:00 AM

I think it trickles down to the mentality.

It's what Farmar and Kobe said that makes sense.


Once you develop the mentality that "losing is ok" it's hard to come back from and it should never be something that enters your mind, as a team or as an organization.


The moment you say to yourself as a player, or as an organization "losing is ok" it's time to get out of the business. 

because it trickles down to your whole team and at that point it doesn't matter who you bring in, it's gonna take a lot to flip that switch back because then your desire and the nights things don't go your way it becomes easier to pack it in because you once let yourself believe that losing is ok.  As if it's something to look forward to.  

You can't have that mentality and be a winning team.  Cleveland is still recovering from that kind of mindset and there's a reason why OKC is a success but all these other 'tanking' teams are still bottom of the league.


Because OKC never acknowledged that 'losing was ok' they were just a bad team no matter how hard they tried and it took them three years of failure but not once did they actually set out on a quest to lose, they tried to win every night which is why they got better and better and better. 

 

Lakers fans that ask for 'losses' don't believe in the rebuilding structure that OKC was forced to embrace.    They want Number 1 draft pick, trade for a star and become a contender in 3 years.  It doesn't work that way. 


Instead of rooting for losses I feel we should all just acknowledge that we have a bad team, and even if we try our hardest, losses are going to happen and just hold on to the faith that no matter how long this goes on we will rebuild into a contender in time. 


But it's holding on to that "FAST SOLUTION" mentality that can make fans say "TANK NOW BENEFIT LATER!!"  "NEXT YEAR WHEN WE GET WIGGINS/PARKER/EXUM/EMBIID ITS OVER FOR THE WEST!!!"  

The truth is, yes the more losses we have the further we fall in the lottery, but also the more losses we have the worse of a team we are, and the worse of a team we are the longer it's going to take to get back into contention.  

 

That's the other side of the coin.   IF we're gonna be the 4th worst team in the NBA it's going to happen because our team has that far to go, not because it was a well thought out plan.  So I get fido's point completely.  

Rooting for losses is pointless, the team is what it is.   

You could root for your Lakers to win every night and their record would still be what it is now because of the team they have and the circumstances around their season.  So I get completely why fido says what he does.  

He's NOT saying that more losses doesn't put us closer to a draft pick that's going to help us and he's NOT saying that drafting someone like Wiggins/Embiid/Exum isn't good for our future. 

He's saying that rooting for and praying for losses and relying on the draft pick we're going to get as such a savior that you forsake winning for the probability of drafting them is a pointless fantasy because the team is going to be where it is because of how it's built not because of how many losing seasons we get.   


Fido can root for the Lakers as much as he wants and enjoy every win that they have and our record is still going to be what it is and he can look at draft prospects he likes or can hope for if we get in position to draft them, but at the same time he isn't rooting for us to get worse.    He'd rather let the season play out and then judge from where we land while still supporting the team and not making a fool of himself by rooting for losses which are irrelevant to do because the team is going to win/lose of their own accord and it makes more sense if you're a "fan" to root for them.   If they're a good team they'll win if they're a bad team they'll lose, rooting for against doesn't change that, so why do it and let it trickle down on an organization that would never think that way(and I think the frustration in the draft thread constantly over our wins reflect that they don't play that way either). 

I think that's what fido feels about it anyway. 


Edited by Majesty, March 28, 2014 - 02:14 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#42 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 28, 2014 - 03:02 AM

I dont buy it. None of it.

 

As a player you always have to work as hard as you can and try to win every game, same with coaches. But GMs have to look at things in a broader perspective and in some instances it's a good idea to bottom out once in a while under the right circumstances. My problem isn't that MDA and the Lakers try to win, but rather that the front office didn't increase the chance of losing by trading away some of the guys we probably aren't bringing back anyway. Why the hell is Nick Young and Chris Kaman lighting up the Knicks in a completely meaningless game, when he could have landed us a second round pick?

 

Do you think the Rockets regretted tanking in '83

Do you think the Spurs regret tanking in '96

How about Cleveland in '02

How about Sonics/Thunder from '07-'09

 

Tanking is a travesty - i agree - but you have to blame the system. Usually tanking doesn't work either, especially when the talent isn't there or if there's only one asset. But in a year like this, tanking is the only way to go for the Lakers.



#43 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,184 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted March 28, 2014 - 03:13 AM

there's a difference between trying to tank and letting the books clear, blowing things up and rebulding.


The Lakers are in full rebuild mode right now. 

If the Lakers were "tanking" they'd have gotten rid of Pau and Hill for relative peanuts to get under the tax threshold and just ensure losses the rest of the season like Philly did. 

 

The Lakers wanted to make the move that made the most basketball sense to them not a move to ensure losses. 

Compare what the Lakers did to what Philly did.   Philly is tanking, the Lakers are just losing and there's no singular move they could made at the deadline to turn them into a contender that another team would buy.  They could however have made several moves that made them an indefinitely weaker team and ensure many losses down the road.   They didn't.  Why do you think that is? :) 


Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#44 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 28, 2014 - 03:49 AM

there's a difference between trying to tank and letting the books clear, blowing things up and rebulding.


The Lakers are in full rebuild mode right now. 

If the Lakers were "tanking" they'd have gotten rid of Pau and Hill for relative peanuts to get under the tax threshold and just ensure losses the rest of the season like Philly did. 

 

The Lakers wanted to make the move that made the most basketball sense to them not a move to ensure losses. 

Compare what the Lakers did to what Philly did.   Philly is tanking, the Lakers are just losing and there's no singular move they could made at the deadline to turn them into a contender that another team would buy.  They could however have made several moves that made them an indefinitely weaker team and ensure many losses down the road.   They didn't.  Why do you think that is? :)

To be honest, i dont think the Lakers have had a clear plan this whole season - or last season for that matter - which probably is due to problems in the front office, uncertainty of the direction of the team, lack of leadership and even the loss of Dr. Buss.

 

For that reason, they've never really tanked, yet they haven't been relevant either and hadn't it been for all the injuries, not including Kobe's second injury, i think we would have ended 2 or 3 spots out of the western playoffs - and a 12th pick.

 

To me, that's not acceptable. In my mind, there's two ways to go: either you're going for it or not - contend or rebuild. There's no middle-ground. Once Kobe went down, so did the playoff chances and we should have been in fire-sale mode from that point on. There's nothing wrong with moving guys that wont be here next season and if we lose games in the proces, fine. Not moving Pau for assets is ok, given that he may have a higher value as a s/t-asset, but watching some of these guys play for their next deal with another team, while we're sinking in the draft order is bs.



#45 Majesty

Majesty

    Luol Deng's cousin is awesome. Thanks for the pizza!!

  • 41,184 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted March 28, 2014 - 04:03 AM

Why is it "unacceptable"?  In 16 years only 5 number 1 picks have lead their team to the playoffs, only 2 have lead their team to the finals and only 1 has won in the finals and it wasn't even with the team that drafted him. 

Your mentality puts too much stock into things and adapts a mentality the Lakers will never have.  

That's the mentality of "we either contend for a championship or we tank! Sell everyone and we rebuild again!!"  

The Lakers will never be that.  Nor should they.

 

There's a difference between rebuilding and tanking.   

It took the Lakers all the way from 2006 to 2013 to hit a rebuild mode.  That's not something you just start and stop.  There are teams that have been rebuilding and STILL ARE rebuilding during that span of time. 


Edited by Majesty, March 28, 2014 - 04:17 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores


#46 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 28, 2014 - 05:19 AM

Why is it "unacceptable"?  In 16 years only 5 number 1 picks have lead their team to the playoffs, only 2 have lead their team to the finals and only 1 has won in the finals and it wasn't even with the team that drafted him. 

Your mentality puts too much stock into things and adapts a mentality the Lakers will never have.  

That's the mentality of "we either contend for a championship or we tank! Sell everyone and we rebuild again!!"  

The Lakers will never be that.  Nor should they.

 

There's a difference between rebuilding and tanking.   

It took the Lakers all the way from 2006 to 2013 to hit a rebuild mode.  That's not something you just start and stop.  There are teams that have been rebuilding and STILL ARE rebuilding during that span of time. 

First of all, why does everyone think that you only tank for the #1 pick. Makes zero sense. It's about getting a new AND CHEAP talent that can stay with the team for many years. This season even a top 8 pick could produce a future all-star - and a top four perhaps a HOF.

 

About my mentality of contend or rebuild, why is it such a bad idea. All i'm saying is that keeping someone like Kaman on the team isn't good for anyone. He'll give us 3 extra wins or something, which could be the difference between the 4th and the 6th pick. With him taking a roster spot, some younger player isn't getting developed either. Trade him for a future second rounder or something. That's how you rebuild.



#47 fozi

fozi

    Off The Bench

  • 2,048 posts
  • Joined: Mar 07, 2012
  • Location:Unknown

Posted March 28, 2014 - 04:41 PM

philly needs a real superstar player for them to be truly relevant again, with those names mentioned above they will be more like the nuggets of the east

A patient superstar ..



#48 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 28, 2014 - 10:35 PM

philly needs a real superstar player for them to be truly relevant again, with those names mentioned above they will be more like the nuggets of the east

True. 

 

Apparently i'm the only one who thinks it's possible to find a superstar in the top 3 this year and apparently i'm the only one who thinks that Nerlens Noel and Michael Carter-Williams could be really good.



#49 underworldmike

underworldmike

    Rodmanator

  • 1,493 posts
  • Joined: Nov 07, 2009
  • Name:Mike
  • Fan Since:Since i was born
  • Fav. Laker:Dennis Rodman and Kobe Bryant

Posted March 29, 2014 - 09:07 PM

I believe so and you add jabari parker to that mix theyll be deadly ^


Posted Image

#50 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 30, 2014 - 10:56 PM

Had an interesting thought:

 

I you were running the Sixers and you missed out on Parker and Wiggins, would you consider going all-in for Kentucky guys? With the picks they have, they could potentially land Randle, Young, WCS and the Harrison twins.

 

It may not be the best available guys, but they'd fit pretty well, they know each other, and there could be some value in doing something like this - almost creating an all-Wildcat team. Perhaps they'd be able to land Bledsoe as well to that mix.

 

Bledsoe-Harrison

MCW-Harrison

Young-?

Randle-Young

Noel-WCS



#51 underworldmike

underworldmike

    Rodmanator

  • 1,493 posts
  • Joined: Nov 07, 2009
  • Name:Mike
  • Fan Since:Since i was born
  • Fav. Laker:Dennis Rodman and Kobe Bryant

Posted March 31, 2014 - 09:08 PM

If i was the 76ers id do that if it becomes possible.  They have to really get lucky and have no one take those guys because other than the 2 1st round picks they do have 5 second round picks. Should be interesting if they can nab another first rounder trading those first picks away.

 

Thats thinking eric maynor and mullens and jason richardson accepts there player option. You still have Arnett Moultrie and tony wroten in the mix as well.


Edited by underworldmike, March 31, 2014 - 09:09 PM.

Posted Image

#52 DanishLakerFan

DanishLakerFan

    Starter

  • 5,021 posts
  • Joined: May 27, 2011
  • Fan Since:1998
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted March 31, 2014 - 10:06 PM

If i was the 76ers id do that if it becomes possible.  They have to really get lucky and have no one take those guys because other than the 2 1st round picks they do have 5 second round picks. Should be interesting if they can nab another first rounder trading those first picks away.

 

Thats thinking eric maynor and mullens and jason richardson accepts there player option. You still have Arnett Moultrie and tony wroten in the mix as well.

I wonder if that would work for a team - trying to assemble picks from a certain school. Perhaps Kentucky fans would start to follow the Sixers a bit more and perhaps some of the A-level FAs would consider going there. For instance, let's say Portland had a long history of drafting UCLA guys that someone like Westbrook or Kevin Love would add the team to their short-list of destinations cities.

 

Theoretically, i think this year's Kentucky guys would go as follows:

Randle - 4 to 6

WCS - late lottery

James - 15-25

Harrison Twins - early to mid first round.

With a top 3, top 12, 32nd, 39th, 48th, 52nd and 55th they'd have the assets to make a move, but it would be a bit difficult.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users