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James Worthy rips Lakers again, says they have "given up" (Pg. 5); reacts to Lakers 48-point disgraceful loss to Clippers

James Worthy criticism effort loss Clippers

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#21 Japago

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 12:51 AM

Yeah...no.  I didn't defend MDA.   I said that Knicks team was playing well together and was one of the hottest teams in the NBA.  They were building something nice with good young players playing the way MDA likes.  If they had given that a year or 2, they'd have resembled some of MDA's PHO teams.  I also said that Melo going to NY was MDA's death knoll.  Melo doesn't fit the system and is a ball-stopper supreme.  That's why those teams looked so bad.

 

That's why Woodson is about to get fired now.  If Melo is your best player, you better have ELITE defendersand rebounders surrounding him because he's going to slow your offense to a crawl.

 

Your statement is inaccurate and unrelated to anything we are discussing here.  Peace.

 

Well, it's not a reason to be impressed with MDA. That's all I'm saying.

 

Anyway, everybody knows this roster isn't good. I don't get why MDA defenders think people don't know that. Going forward with a better roster, MDA will still be a bad coach. Throughout his history, he's had terrible defensive teams and been unable to slow down the pace when needed to. Even with a team that featured 2 big guys and an older wing player last season, the team was still near the top of the league in pace.

 

Give this guy the Heat, I'm pretty confident they wouldn't win a championship. Spoelstra is underrated as a defensive coach. With the Heat's mediocre roster in 2009-2010, they were a top defensive team.


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#22 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:00 AM

It's not just this loss.  Even less talent does not get destroyed like this.  This "less talented" team just beat Portland in Portland, something the most talented Laker teams couldn't pull off.  That excuse also doesn't fly.  It's inconsistency from a coach that has no mind on how to coach.  His lineup changes alone, and inability to figure out the most basic of player rotations, when healthy, should show you enough.  I understand your "talent" argument, bnut history has shown that even less talented teams still compete they still play hard on BOTH ends.  This team plays mediocre on one end and doesn't show up on the other.  The "talent" argument doesn't fly as well.

 

Face it, the dude, healthy team or not, cannot coach an NBA level team.  I don't know what it's going to take for people to see this.  History keeps rearing its head but so many keep burying their head in the sand.

 

You're making an argument for something that can't be argued for.

 

For the record, I didn't have as much problem with Mike Brown as most did.  I think his firing was far too early.  And D'Antoni is not an offensive "guru".  His best years all stemmed from an unbelievable Steve Nash in his prime.  When your team spends zero energy playing defense, rebounding or getting back on defense, it's not tough to give the rest to offense.  He has no system or plays that warrant anyone saying he is an offensive minded coach.  He lets his teams ignore one end of the floor leaving them available to give 100% on the other, that's not a system, that's just osmosis.  He can't coach defense, so he allows his team to focus on one end, the easier end, and just score.

 

 

So he deserves to get paid on a game by game basis?

 

Or could it be that POR had an off night?

Or could it be we had a good night?

 

Same could be said about tonight.  Clippers could have been on and we could have been more off than usual.  With less talent and playing a team that likes to push the tempo, little things like turnovers and missed shots can add up quickly and be almost impossible to overcome.

 

It is what it is.

 

How many starters out there started for us last year?

How many starters NEVER consistently started for ANY team in their career?

How many players sitting on the bench or at home WOULD be starting for us if not injured?

 

 

I get what you're saying but it's not a fair assessment.  You can't say the "the mechanic is a bad mechanic because my car broke down again" when your car is almost 40 and you refuse to replace the engine AND tires.

 

You HAVE to give the man parts that fit HIS system and NBA talent before you go crucifying him.  I don't know how you can sleep at night claiming you are being fair otherwise.

 

I understand you hate the coaching decision.

I get your hatred for his system.  I get it.

 

I grew up a Lakers fan watching my hero and Laker LEGEND Magic Johnson run pretty much the same system MDA coaches...It was called ShowTime and IMHO, it's the most entertaining way to play or watch basketball.  I LOVE those memories.  And I saw them succeed to the tune of 5 Championships with it.  I don't get your aversion to it, knowing you've been a Lakers fan longer than I have.

 

I also grew up watching Phil become a Legend with the Triangle.  I learned to respect what Phil did but I never really saw it as being the cause of his success as much as the talent level he had to work with and the way he MANAGED that talent.

 

So I don't get your arguments.  You want to blame meaningless games on MDA when there is no coach alive that is going to do much better with what was on the floor tonight.  You want to claim that the Lakers MUST send a message...but why?  What will it change?

 

You're making a fuss and becoming emotional because a loss.  I get that...this was tough to swallow.  I just don't understand how a reasonable person like yourself and make such unreasonable leaps in his logic pertaining to a game that has absolutely no bearing on our long-term future.

 

It's not like you to get this worked up over 1 loss.

 

"I don't care if you win by 1 or 21, a win is a win".  Shouldn't the same be said for 1 loss?  In a throw away season?

 

 

I'm happy all of our players made it out of the game unINJURED!!!!   LOL...now THAT would have been something to get upset over.



#23 bigvee

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:19 AM

Losing by 48 AT HOME in the NBA shouldn't happen. Under no circumstances should that happen. This team is perfectly capable of keeping up with NBA teams, they're a bunch of scrubs, but they're still perfectly able to go out there and keep the score relevantly close. 

 

There's a difference between competing and going out there and not giving a [expletive]. To me, that difference can only be ignited by the coaching. Everyone has called out MDA for the lack of defense on every team he's coached, but someway somehow people defend this guy as if it's not his fault that the team won't play defense. 
 

The injuries I understand. In fact, I fully expect to lose any game we play with MDA and this lineup. However, I don't expect to be blown out by 40 plus at home, no matter the circumstance. 

 

Please don't compare MDA style to showtime. There is no Magic Johnson on the floor. There's no Cooper, or Green, or anyone close to that level of talent. Pushing the ball up the floor and jacking up 3's while constantly turning the ball over has no business being compared to showtime. 

 

Either way, the coach has a lot to do with the effort the team shows, no? If the team loses by 48, there's no way in hell they did that while hustling each minute played. Would a team coached by Thibs ever lose by 48? That's my problem with MDA, how little control he has over what's going on with his teams hustle. 



#24 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:24 AM

You and IQ , I respect both your loyalty to this idea that D'antoni is a good Coach, but...

 

Rebounds

Points in the Paint

Defensive schemes

 

He cares nothing for these things, are you telling me there is nothing wrong with that?

 

 

Lets go thru each, shall we?

 

Rebounds - starting PF is injured and Pau has a 2" vertical (true story).  Our guards are trying to rebound out of position but it's hard when they are trying to battle with bigger, taller bigs.  That's on the players.  And you say MDA doesn't care about rebounds?  Not true.  He'd LIKE to have a big that dominates the boards so he could push the ball in transition...that's how they did it in PHO with Amare and Marion.  You can't run taking the ball out of the hoop every possession.

 

Point in the paint - again, not true.  His teams routinely attack the basket at a high rate with the spacing provided by outside shooters.  Point to our core of shooters...exactly.  That's why we aren't getting easy baskets like we should in this system...that and Pau refuses to roll to the basket.  He still fancies himself as a dominant back-to-the-basket players...LOL...yet he's still shooting way too many jumpers when the ball is given to him in the low-post.  SHUT UP Pau!!!  If he'd stop demanding the we force feed him the ball and just keep his feet and hands active, he'd find that he'd score much easier on rolls and lobs to the basket.  Hill isn't a true back-to-the-basket player either.  He has developed more moves but he's still better on putbacks, rolls and lobs.  Kaman is a decent all-around post player...he's just lost a step or 2.  Sacre is a non-factor.  We are most efficient when our guards/SFs SLASH.    But MDA's way has to be the "wrong way"...though most coaches at all levels will tell you that it's essential to get production that way.

 

Defensive schemes - I got nothing...nothing but Phil had no defensive schemes either.  What he had was overwhelming talent and veterans who had been coached by OTHER people in the ways of the defense.  MDA has never had that...and MDA's current defensive coach?  He was also one of Phil's defensive coaches...LOL.  AND he flamed MDA RELIGIOUSLY last year about the team's defense...looks like he can't do any better.  LOL.

 

I think that MDA's coaching style concentrates on an identity that goes "all in" on offense.  I agree that's not good.  I also think Mike Brown had a similar approach to defense.  When he tried to change things up to please the Lakers fans and institute a new (but HIGHLY proven) Princeton OFFENSE, he failed because he didn't stay true to himself.

 

Do I think MDA is the best coach in the NBA?  No.  But he's one of the best (if not THE best) at what he does:  teach offense.  I believe that if you attract ELITE LEVEL talent to play in that system, they will FIND a way to play VERY GOOD defense, much like Phil's Lakers teams did.  I don't think that will be because of MDA but I'm willing to give him enough rope to find out.

 

That's all I'm saying.  People are giving up because they never WANTED MDA to succeed.  Self-fulfilling prophecies.

 

If we give it our best shot and it doesn't work, oh well.  I'm not one of those people frustrated because "Kobe won't pass Jordan's RING total".  I'm not one of those people who thinks we HAVE to be great next year...or the year after that.

 

I do believe that we need to build this team for the FUTURE, not to give an aging and past his prime Kobe another shot at a title.  That's not realistic.

 

And that's why so many fans are p-ed.  They think the Lakers should have prioritized KOBE over their future...that's not happening...and I doubt it will.

 

As long as MDA is the coach, Kobe's reign is essentially over.  No way Kobe fits into what MDA does best - push the ball...not at this stage in his career.

 

I get that.  It would be frustrating if Kobe was my reason for watching the Lakers...but he's not.  I survived Magic and Kareem and Worthy retiring.  I'll be fine with the Ole Bean passing into Laker Lore also.  I suggest Lakers fans prepare themselves for that...they seem to be fighting it tooth and nail.



#25 Japago

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:26 AM

I grew up a Lakers fan watching my hero and Laker LEGEND Magic Johnson run pretty much the same system MDA coaches...It was called ShowTime and IMHO, it's the most entertaining way to play or watch basketball.  I LOVE those memories.  And I saw them succeed to the tune of 5 Championships with it.  I don't get your aversion to it, knowing you've been a Lakers fan longer than I have.

 

I also grew up watching Phil become a Legend with the Triangle.  I learned to respect what Phil did but I never really saw it as being the cause of his success as much as the talent level he had to work with and the way he MANAGED that talent.

 

So, the system gets no credit when Phil wins. But, run and gun gets a lot of credit when Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabaar win championships?

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing the ball. I think you also need to be able to play defense and play at a slow pace when needed to though.


Edited by Japago, March 07, 2014 - 01:33 AM.

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#26 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:27 AM

Losing at "home"?  LOL...to a team who shares the same building, started 3 AllStars to our 1 (if you still consider Pau and Allstar) and is one of the best teams in the league?

 

That couldn't possibly happen...we're the LAKERS!  The Basketball Gods DEMAND that we NEVER lose!!!

 

 

LOL...in other news, water really is wet!



#27 Tensai

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:34 AM

I don't care about getting blown out as much as the effort not being there. This has truly become an historic season. In a worse way.

 

Some things gotta change. Including coach and management. I don't want to see this continuing in any way next season.



#28 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:36 AM

So, the system gets no credit when Phil wins. But, run and gun gets a lot of credit when Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabaar win championships?

 

Never said that.  I said that Phil never coached a team that didn't have elite talent so IMHO, that was more of a factor.  ANd I am not blind to the fact that ShowTime featured a STACKED team.  I'm just saying that if you're gonna claim Phil's system was the reason he won, give credit to MDA's SYSTEM as being a LEGIT alternative.

 

There is precedent to my argument yet it's immediately dismissed out of a hand...

 

Add to that, MDA has been successful with his system when given talent (Amare, Nash, Marion, Joe Johnson...).  I have a legit reason to take a wait-and-see stance.

 

I'm asking you "do you have PROOF that this is much more likely not to work than any other available coach"?  If so, we can discuss that.

 

Blindly blaming MDA for everything that happens to this team is borderline petulant.  Especially given all of the unforeseen setbacks this entire organization has had to endure from Dr. Buss passing to Kobe's injury to Dwight leaving us with NOTHING in return.

 

We can riot together...just give me something that's fair and reasonable to go to war with you on.



#29 Japago

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:43 AM

Never said that.  I said that Phil never coached a team that didn't have elite talent so IMHO, that was more of a factor.  ANd I am not blind to the fact that ShowTime featured a STACKED team.  I'm just saying that if you're gonna claim Phil's system was the reason he won, give credit to MDA's SYSTEM as being a LEGIT alternative.

 

There is precedent to my argument yet it's immediately dismissed out of a hand...

 

Add to that, MDA has been successful with his system when given talent (Amare, Nash, Marion, Joe Johnson...).  I have a legit reason to take a wait-and-see stance.

 

I'm asking you "do you have PROOF that this is much more likely not to work than any other available coach"?  If so, we can discuss that.

 

Blindly blaming MDA for everything that happens to this team is borderline petulant.  Especially given all of the unforeseen setbacks this entire organization has had to endure from Dr. Buss passing to Kobe's injury to Dwight leaving us with NOTHING in return.

 

We can riot together...just give me something that's fair and reasonable to go to war with you on.

 

Except that team ultimately couldn't win in the playoffs because of defense and the inability to control tempo. He doesn't deserve a wait-and-see approach because teams that haven't been able to do that don't win.

 

I don't think MDA will ever have a team that is more suited to him that those Suns teams were. And, he still couldn't beat the best teams with them.

 

What we're ultimately talking about here is if he gets good players, right? Well, that's what I'm projecting here. Even if he gets his perfect team, he can't coach defense and play at a slower pace when needed to. He will never be able to win like that.

 

I think the Lakers should get the best complete assistant coach they can. 18 head coaches currently in the NBA were never head coaches in the NBA beforehand. Have him grow into being a good head coach along with a rebuilding team.


Edited by Japago, March 07, 2014 - 01:51 AM.

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#30 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:51 AM

Losing by 48 AT HOME in the NBA shouldn't happen. Under no circumstances should that happen. This team is perfectly capable of keeping up with NBA teams, they're a bunch of scrubs, but they're still perfectly able to go out there and keep the score relevantly close. 

 

There's a difference between competing and going out there and not giving a [expletive]. To me, that difference can only be ignited by the coaching. Everyone has called out MDA for the lack of defense on every team he's coached, but someway somehow people defend this guy as if it's not his fault that the team won't play defense. 
 

The injuries I understand. In fact, I fully expect to lose any game we play with MDA and this lineup. However, I don't expect to be blown out by 40 plus at home, no matter the circumstance. 

 

Please don't compare MDA style to showtime. There is no Magic Johnson on the floor. There's no Cooper, or Green, or anyone close to that level of talent. Pushing the ball up the floor and jacking up 3's while constantly turning the ball over has no business being compared to showtime. 

 

Either way, the coach has a lot to do with the effort the team shows, no? If the team loses by 48, there's no way in hell they did that while hustling each minute played. Would a team coached by Thibs ever lose by 48? That's my problem with MDA, how little control he has over what's going on with his teams hustle. 

 

 

You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head.  That's why this isn't working.  Doesn't mean this team doesn't have plans to acquire players of that caliber or with those skillsets.

 

Makes you wonder why they would HIRE MDA if they didn't plan on putting TALENT that fits his system around him, right?  

 

I think they do plan on doing that...or they did.  That's why getting upset before they have had a chance to get started on building this team for the future the way that suits the coach is asinine.

 

I'm preaching patience because until they make the moves around MDA's system, this is all just filler.  It's just a setup for Mitch to pull strings and pull a rabbit out of his hat.  None of it matters.  ESPECIALLY with the injuries we have surrounding this team.

 

See what I'm getting at?  If they fire MDA after this game, it won't hurt me.  It is what it is.  All it will do is force the Lakers to pay another coach over 10M to sit at home until he gets another job...because MDA will get another job in the NBA BEFORE his Laker contract ends.  You think he's a scrub but the people who make decisions know that his style fills seats in arenas and the Lakers are hoping that it also translate into a return to Championship ShowTime Basketball, which made money with flare and panache.

 

Again, I'm not defending MDA.  I'm calling for rationality and common sense.  Let's stop buying into all of the myopic drivel of commentators who have never coached a Championship team a day in their life and just go back to trusting Mitch.  It will work out.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day...nor will the Lakers be rebuilt in a season.  That's not realistic.



#31 GCMD

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 01:57 AM

Except that team ultimately couldn't win in the playoffs because of defense and the inability to control tempo. He doesn't deserve a wait-and-see approach because teams that haven't been able to do that don't win.

 

I don't think MDA will ever have a team that is more suited to him that those Suns teams were. And, he still couldn't beat the best teams with them.

 

What we're ultimately talking about here is if he gets good players, right? Well, that's what I'm projecting here. Even if he gets his perfect team, he can't coach defense and play at a slower pace when needed to. He will never be able to win like that.

 

I think the Lakers should get the best complete assistant coach they can. 18 head coaches currently in the NBA were never head coaches in the NBA beforehand. Have him grow into being a good head coach along with a rebuilding team.

 

That won't change our injury troubles nor make Kobe or Nash younger nor will it fix the current talent level.  Any other coach would STILL face the same problems.

 

And again, MDA never had top 5 players to work with...Riley did...Phil did...Spoelstra...Carlisle...Brown is the only coach to win a Championship in the last 20 years without a player in the top 10 in the league on the roster.

 

I challenge you to find ANY coach other than Brown to accomplish that feat in the Shot Clock Era.

 

 

It takes talent to win in the NBA.  MDA's system HAS won Championships...MDA hasn't because he didn't have the talent.  Makes more sense than your statement that the system can't win (when it obviously has).



#32 Japago

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 02:06 AM

That won't change our injury troubles nor make Kobe or Nash younger nor will it fix the current talent level.  Any other coach would STILL face the same problems.

 

And again, MDA never had top 5 players to work with...Riley did...Phil did...Spoelstra...Carlisle...Brown is the only coach to win a Championship in the last 20 years without a player in the top 10 in the league on the roster.

 

I challenge you to find ANY coach other than Brown to accomplish that feat in the Shot Clock Era.

 

 

It takes talent to win in the NBA.  MDA's system HAS won Championships...MDA hasn't because he didn't have the talent.  Makes more sense than your statement that the system can't win (when it obviously has).

 

Other teams that haven't been able to play defense and slow down the tempo when needed to have won championships?

 

I didn't watch Showtime, but they were at least able to do those 2 things, right? They could also play defense and play very well in the half-court as far as I've read from fans of that generation.

 

Like I said, I think teams that push the ball can win. But, there are certain things you need to be able to do as a team that D'Antoni's teams have never been able to do.

 

Those Suns teams were extremely talented. Nash was a 2 time MVP and Stoudemire was very good too. They had a pretty complete roster as well.


Edited by Japago, March 07, 2014 - 02:14 AM.

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#33 Majesty

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 02:31 AM

Replace Gasol with Noah, have Earl Clark at the 4 so that you can move Wesley back to the 3, or even start Bazemore at the 3 and move Wesley to the bench and you'd see a much more efficient defensive team and not because of anything D'antoni or Rambis haven't already done. 


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#34 Yaboy

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 02:43 AM

D'Antoni is an offensive genius though lol ... at least that's what a lot of posters here were saying when he got hired lol.


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#35 Saber

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 02:53 AM

No matter how bad you are, how much you suck, no matter how of a incompetent coach you have and how many injured players you have you don't lose by 48 .. at home .. to the Clippers .. you just don't ! It's a shame .. To me these people shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Lakers, because they don't have the heart for it. The thing they wear on their chest is just letters, it doesn't mean anything, just the name of another team that took them for a little while. Several weeks ago I thought we've reached an all-time low, but I was wrong, because there are always new lows that can be reached by this team. I feel ashamed and embarrased, but most of all I feel betrayed. I hope it's not just me, you and all the other fans. I hope the team feels the same way, but I have the gut feeling they just don't give a [expletive] anymore ....  :no:

 

Sorry guys, I just needed to speak my mind freely ..


Edited by Saber, March 07, 2014 - 02:54 AM.


#36 DanishLakerFan

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 03:17 AM

No matter how bad you are, how much you suck, no matter how of a incompetent coach you have and how many injured players you have you don't lose by 48 .. at home .. to the Clippers .. you just don't ! It's a shame .. To me these people shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Lakers, because they don't have the heart for it. The thing they wear on their chest is just letters, it doesn't mean anything, just the name of another team that took them for a little while. Several weeks ago I thought we've reached an all-time low, but I was wrong, because there are always new lows that can be reached by this team. I feel ashamed and embarrased, but most of all I feel betrayed. I hope it's not just me, you and all the other fans. I hope the team feels the same way, but I have the gut feeling they just don't give a [expletive] anymore ....  :no:

 

Sorry guys, I just needed to speak my mind freely ..

 

To me the worst part is that i simply stopped caring. This season just needs to end pretty damn soon, so we can get our pick and forget about this year. In the future it should remind the front office about what not to do.

 

But at least we are not the Knicks. What's their excuse for sucking ass?



#37 Saber

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 03:36 AM

To me the worst part is that i simply stopped caring. This season just needs to end pretty damn soon, so we can get our pick and forget about this year. In the future it should remind the front office about what not to do.

 

But at least we are not the Knicks. What's their excuse for sucking ass?

This team needs drastic changes if you ask me ..



#38 Majesty

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 04:31 AM

 

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#39 Ven

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 04:46 AM

This team needs drastic changes if you ask me ..

 

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#40 Japago

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Posted March 07, 2014 - 04:50 AM

I think we're being too hard on the Lakers. They won the 4th quarter. They're obviously better when it matters most.


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