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Lakers Free Agency Discussion Thread


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#5041 kidpolean

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 02:58 AM

Just some thoughts on what I've read in this thread...

Randle hasn't done anything that suggests that we should build around him. Kevin love is the better player and if you can get him than you take him and trade Randle. Love doesn't fit with this team? What team? We have no roster, the majority of this team wont be here next year. Kobe will probably retire after he gets injured again next year so putting Kobe in your fantasy lineups is useless because he has proven that simply cant finish a full season anymore. He cant be relied on at all.

Hezonja is not and will not play the 3. Why does everyone want to make players play out of position on this forum? Randle at SF, Russell at pg, Exum at pg...now Hezonja at SF??? Just let people play their freakin position!

#5042 Lightsoutwilly

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 05:13 AM

Just some thoughts on what I've read in this thread...

Randle hasn't done anything that suggests that we should build around him. Kevin love is the better player and if you can get him than you take him and trade Randle. Love doesn't fit with this team? What team? We have no roster, the majority of this team wont be here next year. Kobe will probably retire after he gets injured again next year so putting Kobe in your fantasy lineups is useless because he has proven that simply cant finish a full season anymore. He cant be relied on at all.

Hezonja is not and will not play the 3. Why does everyone want to make players play out of position on this forum? Randle at SF, Russell at pg, Exum at pg...now Hezonja at SF??? Just let people play their freakin position!


I agree... We can't look at randle like he is the one we should build our future around because he hasn't shown us anything up until this point... I think people are just saying that love doesn't fit this team because of what love has been in Cleveland so far but that's totally different than what we have here coz we have nothing after this season... If we can have love for the right price, DJ for the right price and another small forward for the right price along with the right pick.. We should be ok next year and moving on..

#5043 DanishLakerFan

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 06:42 AM

Just some thoughts on what I've read in this thread...

Randle hasn't done anything that suggests that we should build around him. Kevin love is the better player and if you can get him than you take him and trade Randle. Love doesn't fit with this team? What team? We have no roster, the majority of this team wont be here next year. Kobe will probably retire after he gets injured again next year so putting Kobe in your fantasy lineups is useless because he has proven that simply cant finish a full season anymore. He cant be relied on at all.

Hezonja is not and will not play the 3. Why does everyone want to make players play out of position on this forum? Randle at SF, Russell at pg, Exum at pg...now Hezonja at SF??? Just let people play their freakin position!

Of course we take Love if we can, but Randle is still a very nice young prospect that could become a great nba player.

 

Hezonja is a wing at 6'8'' and i dont think its unreasonable to expect him to play the 3. I read somewhere that he's getting closer to 6'9''. Randle at the wing is strange - but so is playing Ryan 6'11'' Kelly at the wing.



#5044 kidpolean

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 07:26 AM

Of course we take Love if we can, but Randle is still a very nice young prospect that could become a great nba player.

Hezonja is a wing at 6'8'' and i dont think its unreasonable to expect him to play the 3. I read somewhere that he's getting closer to 6'9''. Randle at the wing is strange - but so is playing Ryan 6'11'' Kelly at the wing.

every prospect could become a great NBA player...Randle isn't special.
Height is nit the determining factor when it come to position. Hezonja would get pushed around by nearly every SF in the NBA. Hell some SG's will be able to bully this guy in the post. His height is an advantage at SG...so keep him there. There is no logical reason for him to play SF, unless you happen to have an elite SG that can't play SF. I dont care if he is 6'9. You need to play to your players advantages. At SF he is a huge defensive liability and it is easier for SF to contest his shots. Hezonja trying to stop Bron from posting up would be hilarious.

btw...Kelly at the 3 is probably one of the worst players in the entire league.

Edited by kidpolean, March 27, 2015 - 07:32 AM.


#5045 Lakerace24

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 08:26 AM


every prospect could become a great NBA player...


Wrong

#5046 kidpolean

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 09:05 AM

Wrong

who cant and why? With hard work and the right mentoring a player can develop skills to be great. As long as they aren't like 5'6 or something.

Kyrie Irving has nothing elite about him except handles. Dribbling is mastered through practice. Harden all of skills were learned...he isn't a natural athletic freak. Steph Curry he LEARNED how to shoot and dribble. Unless you are an athletic freak, everybody starts off at the same level. A 10 year old Smush parker and a 10 year old Steph Curry were probably at or around the same skill level. Practice and a players mindset makes the difference.

Great players are great because they do what it takes to be great which is the same with just about everything else in life.

There is nothing physically stopping an undrafted player from eventually being better than a lottery pick.

Edited by kidpolean, March 27, 2015 - 09:07 AM.


#5047 Lakerace24

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 09:31 AM

who cant and why? With hard work and the right mentoring a player can develop skills to be great. As long as they aren't like 5'6 or something.

Kyrie Irving has nothing elite about him except handles. Dribbling is mastered through practice. Harden all of skills were learned...he isn't a natural athletic freak. Steph Curry he LEARNED how to shoot and dribble. Unless you are an athletic freak, everybody starts off at the same level. A 10 year old Smush parker and a 10 year old Steph Curry were probably at or around the same skill level. Practice and a players mindset makes the difference.

Great players are great because they do what it takes to be great which is the same with just about everything else in life.

There is nothing physically stopping an undrafted player from eventually being better than a lottery pick.

Dude, idk how much you actually play the game of ball but your post really made me raise an eyebrow. Guys like Steph and Harden... you don't just LEARN the type of skill they have. That is just flat out untrue. Sure, you can improve your jump shot, improve your awareness a bit maybe, improve your handles and tighten up your dribble to a certain extent but in no way can you learn to be as great as the players you just mentioned. Those players are naturally gifted, and when they recognize just how special their skills are, they can refine them to the point of what we watch on TV today.

I GUARANTEE there is some guy out there that has worked his ass off more so than stars like Harden and Curry, but we're never going to hear about him because he just doesn't have the skills to make himself relevant.

You can't just learn how to read the floor and distribute the ball like Nash does. You can't just learn how to be a deadeye like Steph. You can't teach instincts and you can't teach touch. Basketball is a sport of naturally talented athletes.

#5048 Lakerace24

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 09:37 AM

Take Ryan Kelly for example. I'd put everything down the man has an absolute 0% chance of ever being a great NBA player regardless of how much work he puts in. Same with Sacre. Now, every now and then you'll get a Manu Ginobli but there are prospects where you can say with 100% certainty won't go onto do anything relevant in the league. No matter how much work they put in.

#5049 Jody Smokes

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 09:55 AM

Everything you said is absolutely untrue.  It's like that in real life.  Some people are just more gifted than others in things.  Now if you are talking about 2 players that compare physically and skill wise I think you can make a case that hard work can be a huge factor but there is also this thing that coach David Thorpe wrote about called the "royal jelly" concept. 

 

Basically how some players will be great regardless of where they land or play (generational players like Lebron, Kobe, KD, MJ, etc)

Others could very well be perennial all stars to almost consider bench players even if the talent is there b/c of lack of proper development from the organization being a huge factor, desire and hard work (one of the reasons I do not want Byron coaching this team).  Players that fit that mold are like Harden, Tyreke Evans, Josh Smith, Paul George. 

 

Like when you look at Tyreke Evans whats stopping him from being as good as Harden?  Was he robbed of better development by being in SAC for so long?  6 seasons in he's now stuck in a mold that he is probably too old to develop out of.  It's the same way with real life. You have some people that will be successful and are highly intelligent regardless of their environment but most normal people need a somewhat positive environment for good development.

 

who cant and why? With hard work and the right mentoring a player can develop skills to be great. As long as they aren't like 5'6 or something.

Kyrie Irving has nothing elite about him except handles. Dribbling is mastered through practice. Harden all of skills were learned...he isn't a natural athletic freak. Steph Curry he LEARNED how to shoot and dribble. Unless you are an athletic freak, everybody starts off at the same level. A 10 year old Smush parker and a 10 year old Steph Curry were probably at or around the same skill level. Practice and a players mindset makes the difference.

Great players are great because they do what it takes to be great which is the same with just about everything else in life.

There is nothing physically stopping an undrafted player from eventually being better than a lottery pick.


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#5050 Jody Smokes

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 09:56 AM

Manu is a perfect example.  Without Coach Pop and his influence on how to harness his skillset, allow him the freedom to make mistakes he doesnt become what he is.  A coach like Byron would have stifled a player like Manu. 

 

Take Ryan Kelly for example. I'd put everything down the man has an absolute 0% chance of ever being a great NBA player regardless of how much work he puts in. Same with Sacre. Now, every now and then you'll get a Manu Ginobli but there are prospects where you can say with 100% certainty won't go onto do anything relevant in the league. No matter how much work they put in.


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#5051 last stand 2.0

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 10:14 AM

I want a wing in free agency

Either Danny or draymond green, or Tobias Harris

Unless we draft winslow or hezonja

Then I want a big man like jordan or kanter
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#5052 kidpolean

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 02:53 PM

Dude, idk how much you actually play the game of ball but your post really made me raise an eyebrow. Guys like Steph and Harden... you don't just LEARN the type of skill they have. That is just flat out untrue. Sure, you can improve your jump shot, improve your awareness a bit maybe, improve your handles and tighten up your dribble to a certain extent but in no way can you learn to be as great as the players you just mentioned. Those players are naturally gifted, and when they recognize just how special their skills are, they can refine them to the point of what we watch on TV today.
I GUARANTEE there is some guy out there that has worked his ass off more so than stars like Harden and Curry, but we're never going to hear about him because he just doesn't have the skills to make himself relevant.
You can't just learn how to read the floor and distribute the ball like Nash does. You can't just learn how to be a deadeye like Steph. You can't teach instincts and you can't teach touch. Basketball is a sport of naturally talented athletes.

I played football and baseball more than anything but yes I have played quite a bit of basketball. I was a 5'5 135 WR and the best on my team. Thats was all by practice. I went to state in track because I practiced. I wasn't very good in basketball because I didn't enjoy playing it.

Agree to disagree. I've had way to many unnecessary arguments on here today. Nobody can prove if practice can equal natural ability that is a debate that has gone on for awhile. But I guarantee you that Kobe wont call him skills natural. He was a gifted athlete but everything else was hard word and dedication.

#5053 L8kers4life

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 04:20 PM

I played football and baseball more than anything but yes I have played quite a bit of basketball. I was a 5'5 135 WR and the best on my team. Thats was all by practice. I went to state in track because I practiced. I wasn't very good in basketball because I didn't enjoy playing it.

Agree to disagree. I've had way to many unnecessary arguments on here today. Nobody can prove if practice can equal natural ability that is a debate that has gone on for awhile. But I guarantee you that Kobe wont call him skills natural. He was a gifted athlete but everything else was hard word and dedication.

 

I see what you are saying, but sometimes it trully is talent. I for one was a 6 foot 4 225lb reciever and fs here in CA, I never played a lick of tackle football until HS, I hardly hit the weight room. But I had natural speed, and unbelievable hands, which I did not work extremely hard to get. I had 122 catches my senior year and 18 interceptions on D, I had over 40 scholarship offers, and none of came from practicing. I was state player of the year and had a pretty good college career and even had a sniff as a practice player in the NFL. With all that being said, talent got me there, but know matter how hard I practiced and lifted in College, I was still not as talented as some of my teammates who made it to the NFL.

 

Just because you practice hard and work on your skills relentlessly, that does not mean you will have the talent to be elite, some people are just born with it...



#5054 Majesty

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 04:27 PM

And it takes someone that has both the talent AND the work ethic to put it all together. 

 

Ryan Kelly will likely never become a hall of famer.  What he can be, is a versatile stretch 4 that would benefit any team that uses him correctly and that's alright. 


Edited by Majesty, March 27, 2015 - 04:27 PM.

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#5055 FranklinPeanuts

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 05:05 PM

I dig these kind of debates. You guys are some tall mofos...lol

I believe that a lot of players have talent and that it is the hardwork in practice that sharpens their skill.

I went to Inglewood High and graduated with Paul Peirce. Coach Pat Roy was on his arse in all the practices. Making him fight, dive and go all out for lose balls.

He always told Paul... Boy you got talent but you need to practice the basic skills
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#5056 Чад

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Posted March 27, 2015 - 06:59 PM

I see what you are saying, but sometimes it trully is talent. I for one was a 6 foot 4 225lb reciever and fs here in CA, I never played a lick of tackle football until HS, I hardly hit the weight room. But I had natural speed, and unbelievable hands, which I did not work extremely hard to get. I had 122 catches my senior year and 18 interceptions on D, I had over 40 scholarship offers, and none of came from practicing. I was state player of the year and had a pretty good college career and even had a sniff as a practice player in the NFL. With all that being said, talent got me there, but know matter how hard I practiced and lifted in College, I was still not as talented as some of my teammates who made it to the NFL.

 

Just because you practice hard and work on your skills relentlessly, that does not mean you will have the talent to be elite, some people are just born with it...

What was your 40 time?


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#5057 L8kers4life

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Posted Yesterday, 09:26 AM

4.5, my very best time was 4.48 during my second year in college..



#5058 newgenduder

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Posted Yesterday, 02:01 PM

every prospect could become a great NBA player...Randle isn't special.
Height is nit the determining factor when it come to position. Hezonja would get pushed around by nearly every SF in the NBA. Hell some SG's will be able to bully this guy in the post. His height is an advantage at SG...so keep him there. There is no logical reason for him to play SF, unless you happen to have an elite SG that can't play SF. I dont care if he is 6'9. You need to play to your players advantages. At SF he is a huge defensive liability and it is easier for SF to contest his shots. Hezonja trying to stop Bron from posting up would be hilarious.

btw...Kelly at the 3 is probably one of the worst players in the entire league.


At 6'7 you're a small forward in today's game. There's like 3 good post up SFs, so defending that shouldn't determine ur position. And nobody,nobody can guard those SFs anyway.
Small forward should be called big guard in today's game - All perimeter players. That's why Positionless basketball is bcoming a thing becuase the 3 wing positions are interchangeable

And btw Hezonja has some meat on him. Js

#5059 kball

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Posted Yesterday, 07:16 PM

I see what you are saying, but sometimes it trully is talent. I for one was a 6 foot 4 225lb reciever and fs here in CA, I never played a lick of tackle football until HS, I hardly hit the weight room. But I had natural speed, and unbelievable hands, which I did not work extremely hard to get. I had 122 catches my senior year and 18 interceptions on D, I had over 40 scholarship offers, and none of came from practicing. I was state player of the year and had a pretty good college career and even had a sniff as a practice player in the NFL. With all that being said, talent got me there, but know matter how hard I practiced and lifted in College, I was still not as talented as some of my teammates who made it to the NFL.

 

Just because you practice hard and work on your skills relentlessly, that does not mean you will have the talent to be elite, some people are just born with it...

Man but you were so close. 

Not to get too far off topic...but looking back would you have approached any aspect differently?

Ive always felt guys with less talent can still make it if they work harder, but usually dont last as long as talented less driven players.


Praying for 1. Kobe's Health (Nope, another season ending injury), 2. High Draft Pick (Randle...season ending injury game #1.*sigh*) 3. Miracle Trade (Not yet, but Black looks nice), 4. Quality Free Agent (Boozer, kind of, Davis, nice upside!), 5. Brilliant Coaching Hire (Byron coaching to tank and injure)

 

Obviously, the praying thing didnt work.

 





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