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Is Kyrie Irving The Most Overrated "Superstar" In The NBA?


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#61    

   

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 05:19 PM

All that I cannot speak on.  We don't know whats going on.

We do know some things actually and those some things that we do know are enough to not cut him as much slack as you seem to be doing.


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#62 Majesty

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 05:34 PM

Kyrie seems to have been on 'good' behavior since Brown benched him and the GM got fired. 


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#63    

   

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 05:36 PM

^ Yup. It's not too late for them at all to make a playoff push, being in that pathetic d-league eastern conference of course. Here's to hoping they do. Sure would help us.


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#64 Jody Smokes

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 09:07 PM

Cutting him slack lmao. Putting the blame on a guy thats 21 years old avg 21/6 on a team that where their most talented players have his same skillset and all three overlap on the court, a coach that isn't very good with offense and an overall flawed roster is kinda much.  Bottom line is what are you expecting?  You can't [expletive] on the ownership, [expletive] on Mike Brown, dump on their roster moves and then say owe Kyrie should have them in the playoffs.  The first mistake is acting like Kyrie Irving is an elite player, he's 21 with loads of talent.  Needs a positive atmosphere to grow.

 

We do know some things actually and those some things that we do know are enough to not cut him as much slack as you seem to be doing.


Edited by Jody Smokes, February 09, 2014 - 09:08 PM.

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 09:14 PM

As the "franchise leader", you don't set an example by going through the motions so many games and putting up stats that don't affect the game nor are concentrated on making others around you better. Ever since the Grant firing of recent and the team getting blasted especially by many I'm sure after losing to our fouled out team, he has been stepping it up a bit finally, but for most of the season he's done things that are inexcusable regardless of excuses legitimate or not as the "franchise player".


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#66 Majesty

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 11:21 PM

As the "franchise leader", you don't set an example by going through the motions so many games and putting up stats that don't affect the game nor are concentrated on making others around you better. Ever since the Grant firing of recent and the team getting blasted especially by many I'm sure after losing to our fouled out team, he has been stepping it up a bit finally, but for most of the season he's done things that are inexcusable regardless of excuses legitimate or not as the "franchise player".

 

 

will rep you later for this 


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#67 8RingKobe

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 11:46 PM

As the "franchise leader", you don't set an example by going through the motions so many games and putting up stats that don't affect the game nor are concentrated on making others around you better. Ever since the Grant firing of recent and the team getting blasted especially by many I'm sure after losing to our fouled out team, he has been stepping it up a bit finally, but for most of the season he's done things that are inexcusable regardless of excuses legitimate or not as the "franchise player".


He's 21. :D He is supposed to carry a franchise on his back? If he is going to go anywhere they needed to draft players to compliment him. They did not and evident by the fact their past 3 first round picks are actually pretty trash.

He is putting up 21/6 and you can write off his stats saying they don't help his team, well that's because they are garbage and they need a whole lot more than Kyrie to win. You can't just disregard his stats because his team isn't winning.

My only problem is he is shooting about 43% from the field. But I don't even care about that to much. He is a young PG that likes to shoot. So do Westbrook and Rose and they at considered elite PG despite shooting sub 48% most of the time. He goes to a good team that will nurture his talents and he will grow. He has tons of talent.

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Posted February 09, 2014 - 11:51 PM

I'm tired of hearing about his age as an excuse already. It's irrelevant in this case cause he's been in the league long enough and played more than enough games to have enough experience already where that shouldn't be used against him.

 

It's easy to assume stuff this or that way because of stats, but when one actually watches more than enough games ala the league pass, then one actually knows what they're talking about.


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#69 8RingKobe

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 01:08 AM

The only experience he has is losing. That's got to grate on you, I know it does to me. Nothing more I hate than losing, and that's all Cleveland does. That's not going to help him get better or more mature. They have completely failed to build around him.

So you're just going to ignore his stats because that helps you. Gotcha.

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 01:23 AM

The only experience he has is losing. That's got to grate on you, I know it does to me. Nothing more I hate than losing, and that's all Cleveland does. That's not going to help him get better or more mature.

He can learn from so much failure and make the necessary adjustments or at least try to improve by playing hard all the time and at least attempting to be a true leader. He hasn't even cared for most of this season to even try to be any of that and thus is why he's regressed in some ways.

 

Another major thing he could and should work on is his absolutely horrendous defense. It's among the worst in the league. His team suffers mightily when he's in the game a lot of the time because he's such a huge liability. So just imagine that, when he's often inefficient offensively and on top of that almost always sucks defensively, ouch. Take a look at the original post of this thread if you haven't already. It's pointed out nicely there.


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#71 8RingKobe

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 02:19 AM

You make it sound easy. The fact is he has one of the worst teams in the East, and that's saying something. No one player could make that team good. He wants out and it shows in his playing. I'm not going to hold that against him.

That I can't argue, his defending is atrocious.

#72 DanishLakerFan

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 04:06 AM

He's 21. :D He is supposed to carry a franchise on his back? If he is going to go anywhere they needed to draft players to compliment him. They did not and evident by the fact their past 3 first round picks are actually pretty trash.

He is putting up 21/6 and you can write off his stats saying they don't help his team, well that's because they are garbage and they need a whole lot more than Kyrie to win. You can't just disregard his stats because his team isn't winning.

My only problem is he is shooting about 43% from the field. But I don't even care about that to much. He is a young PG that likes to shoot. So do Westbrook and Rose and they at considered elite PG despite shooting sub 48% most of the time. He goes to a good team that will nurture his talents and he will grow. He has tons of talent.

My problem with Kyrie can actually be explained by using the two guys you mention - Westbrook and Rose - as an example.

 

Their first 3 years in the league:

 

Westbrook:

15.3ppg, 5.3apt, 4.9rpg, .398FG%, .271 3pt%. Team: 23-59

16.1ppg, 8apg, 4.9rpg, .418FG%, .221 3pt%.  Team: 50-32

21.9ppg, 8.2apg, 4.6rpg, 442FG%, .330 3pt%. Team: 55-27

 

Rose:

16 ppg, 6.3apg, 3.9rpg, 475FG%, .22 3pt%. Team: 41-41

20.8 ppg, 6apg, 3.8rpg, 489FG%, .27 3pt%. Team: 41-41

25 ppg, 7.7apg, 4.1rpg, 445FG%, .33 3pt%. Team: 62-20

 

Irving:

18.5ppg, 5.4apg, 3.7rpg, .469FG%, .399 3pt%. Team 21-45 (.318)

22.5ppg, 5.9apg, 3.7rpg, .452FG%, .391 3pt%. Team 24-58 (.293)

21.6ppg, 6.3apg, 3.2rpg, .428FG%, .362 3pt%. Team 18-33 (.353) so far

 

Rose and Westbrook both improved a lot in almost every aspect of their game their first three seasons as did their teams. Irving haven't really improved his own game or the team and his defense is horrible. Also, he is injury prone.

 

I think Kyrie is a damn solid PG in this league - perhaps even an all-star at some point. But he haven't been living up to the hype after his first year and i'm not really sure if he ever will. 



#73 Jody Smokes

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 08:55 AM

How many 21 year old players should be the franchise leader?  How many 21 year olds are real leaders to begin with?  That idea that Kyrie should be setting the tone is nonsense.  It takes a team to win basketball games not 1 player.  Amazing that the Lakers have won 16 championships and this simple idea escapes half of our fans.


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#74 Jody Smokes

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 08:59 AM

Who knows, all of those facts discussed but no one talks about the main factors that matter in the growth of a young player.  Coaching and team atmosphere.  You can't honestly say Kyrie has a positive environment to grow and develop as a player like the other 2.  Hell his 2nd best player is oft injured and after that is a team full of misfits and overlapping players.  Jarrett Jack, Waiters and Irving all do the same thing.

 

My problem with Kyrie can actually be explained by using the two guys you mention - Westbrook and Rose - as an example.

 

Their first 3 years in the league:

 

Westbrook:

15.3ppg, 5.3apt, 4.9rpg, .398FG%, .271 3pt%. Team: 23-59

16.1ppg, 8apg, 4.9rpg, .418FG%, .221 3pt%.  Team: 50-32

21.9ppg, 8.2apg, 4.6rpg, 442FG%, .330 3pt%. Team: 55-27

 

Rose:

16 ppg, 6.3apg, 3.9rpg, 475FG%, .22 3pt%. Team: 41-41

20.8 ppg, 6apg, 3.8rpg, 489FG%, .27 3pt%. Team: 41-41

25 ppg, 7.7apg, 4.1rpg, 445FG%, .33 3pt%. Team: 62-20

 

Irving:

18.5ppg, 5.4apg, 3.7rpg, .469FG%, .399 3pt%. Team 21-45 (.318)

22.5ppg, 5.9apg, 3.7rpg, .452FG%, .391 3pt%. Team 24-58 (.293)

21.6ppg, 6.3apg, 3.2rpg, .428FG%, .362 3pt%. Team 18-33 (.353) so far

 

Rose and Westbrook both improved a lot in almost every aspect of their game their first three seasons as did their teams. Irving haven't really improved his own game or the team and his defense is horrible. Also, he is injury prone.

 

I think Kyrie is a damn solid PG in this league - perhaps even an all-star at some point. But he haven't been living up to the hype after his first year and i'm not really sure if he ever will. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#75 LakeShow805

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 09:24 AM

His numbers start to drop once Mike Brown arrives......


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#76 Jody Smokes

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 09:51 AM

Not to mention they spend 30M on Jarrett Jack who has essentially the same skillset with less talent and then they run 3 guard lineups with him and Waiters as their #1 lineup lol.  Irving, Jack, Waiters, Thompson and VJ is their #1 lineup.  No way you can expect a team with 2 combo guards and a scoring PG to prosper. 

 

 

His numbers start to drop once Mike Brown arrives......


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#77 LakerDave8

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 04:53 PM

Kyrie is pretty over-rated, you also do have people like Melo to take into mind.

 

Carmelo is more over-rated then Kyrie is in my opinion. Melo scores very inefficiently, his percentages are not good at all and he can't do [expletive] with the Knicks, people call him a top 5 player but in my opinion he's far from that.



#78 8RingKobe

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 09:03 PM

Not to mention they spend 30M on Jarrett Jack who has essentially the same skillset with less talent and then they run 3 guard lineups with him and Waiters as their #1 lineup lol. Irving, Jack, Waiters, Thompson and VJ is their #1 lineup. No way you can expect a team with 2 combo guards and a scoring PG to prosper.


I find it hilarious that they could have had Barnes and Noel on there team instead. :D Yeah Jack was a terrible acquisition. Dumb decision for sure.

#79 DanishLakerFan

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Posted February 10, 2014 - 10:59 PM

Who knows, all of those facts discussed but no one talks about the main factors that matter in the growth of a young player.  Coaching and team atmosphere.  You can't honestly say Kyrie has a positive environment to grow and develop as a player like the other 2.  Hell his 2nd best player is oft injured and after that is a team full of misfits and overlapping players.  Jarrett Jack, Waiters and Irving all do the same thing.

That's true, but i also think Kyrie, much like Tyreke Evans, was hyped a bit too much following his first strong season and i dont think he's shown much willingness or ability to do much else than just score. I dont think it's fair to put all the blame on the franchise either, although they deserve some of it.  






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