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#1 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 02:39 PM

Lakers need to start over and not skip the "building" process of a real team.  Having a generational player or a core of elite guys gives you this luxury but when you don't have an generational guy you need to draft, develop, keep the pieces you want and trade the guys that don't fit until you create a core worth plug pieces in with.

 

It's a myth that Lakers don't care about building the "traditional" way.  Divac, Eddie Jones, Van Exel were all drafted by LA within 5 years and all played some role in getting to the Shaq and Kobe era.  Shaq being traded was a direct factor in getting Bynum and LO.  It's all a process.  Giving away picks and overpaying guys like Nash was an attempt to skip this process of building and development and it has backfired like no other.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#2 BasketballIQ

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 02:45 PM

Cool story bro

#3 Thanatos

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 02:56 PM

Agreed, I'm tired of hiring mercenaries. I'd rather have a couple of young stars I can follow for 10+ years from the beginning.


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#4 kball

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 02:59 PM

Lakers need to start over and not skip the "building" process of a real team.  Having a generational player or a core of elite guys gives you this luxury but when you don't have an generational guy you need to draft, develop, keep the pieces you want and trade the guys that don't fit until you create a core worth plug pieces in with.

 

It's a myth that Lakers don't care about building the "traditional" way.  Divac, Eddie Jones, Van Exel were all drafted by LA within 5 years and all played some role in getting to the Shaq and Kobe era.  Shaq being traded was a direct factor in getting Bynum and LO.  It's all a process.  Giving away picks and overpaying guys like Nash was an attempt to skip this process of building and development and it has backfired like no other.

I might use the word 'delay' rather than 'skip', but yeah...it failed...and Buss and Kupchak are certainly aware of that.


Praying for 1. Kobe's Health, 2. High Draft Pick (Randle!) 3. Miracle Trade (Not yet), 4. Quality Free Agent (Boozer, kind of), 5. Brilliant Coaching Hire (Byron!...but the jury is out)

 


#5 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:02 PM

I don't necessarily think giving away our picks and acquiring Nash was a bad move. Had we not done that, we'd still make the playoffs with a core of Kobe, Dwight, and Pau. And those drafts weren't that deep anyways. 

 

However, now we have a chance to obtain a young talent from one of the deepest drafts in years. We're injured, play no defense, and practically have no talent compared to other teams. 

 

The best part is that we can also look forward to signing marquee free agents within the same offseason and each of the next. 



#6 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:07 PM

For once stop being a dick and contribute something to a thread.  You don't have to agree but drop some real opinion on what direction the franchise should take.  Add to the value of the forum instead being the laughing stock of it.

 

Cool story bro


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#7 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:11 PM

I think the problem was that they held on to Pau too long and could have traded him for some serious depth that would have gone with the Kobe, D12 and Ron team.  Imagine had they actually made the trade for Gragic, Martin and Scola that was allegedly on the table, made it known to Sessions he had a spot here.  Martin would have taken a serious load off of Kobe.  Meeks, Sessions and Barnes would have been a really solid bench.

 

I don't necessarily think giving away our picks and acquiring Nash was a bad move. Had we not done that, we'd still make the playoffs with a core of Kobe, Dwight, and Pau. And those drafts weren't that deep anyways. 

 

However, now we have a chance to obtain a young talent from one of the deepest drafts in years. We're injured, play no defense, and practically have no talent compared to other teams. 

 

The best part is that we can also look forward to signing marquee free agents within the same offseason and each of the next. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#8 Scooter123

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:15 PM

The salary cap deal has made team building a new dynamic.  No longer can a team go shopping for high level free agents and stay within the salary cap.  No longer can a team be built around aging super-stars with bloated contracts. 

 

Instead the new model is drafting picks and scouting and developing "B" type players and turning them into "A" type players with a committment to the team philosophy.

 

San Antonio has a proven track record for this type of team development and excels in this philosophy.  The Lakers will have to change or die.  Regrettably, the Lakers doubled down on the old school method this year, so team re-builidng probably cannot occur until the Kobe era is long gone. 



#9 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:26 PM

They could start now but it would be a very bold move to do so, considering Kobe wants to contend.  I think brighter days will start once we see who is drafted, make a run at Love and see what they can add in 2016 when Kobe retires.  If they play their cards right they can contend once those things are in place. 

 

The salary cap deal has made team building a new dynamic.  No longer can a team go shopping for high level free agents and stay within the salary cap.  No longer can a team be built around aging super-stars with bloated contracts. 

 

Instead the new model is drafting picks and scouting and developing "B" type players and turning them into "A" type players with a committment to the team philosophy.

 

San Antonio has a proven track record for this type of team development and excels in this philosophy.  The Lakers will have to change or die.  Regrettably, the Lakers doubled down on the old school method this year, so team re-builidng probably cannot occur until the Kobe era is long gone. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#10 Windu

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:31 PM

Team building begins with a winning mentality. First and foremost, we have to grab a head coach. It's really imperative to grab a head coach with championship experience, or a head coach with championship aspirations and one who can demonstrate what it takes to win in this league. 

 

I include the front office as part of the team building process and consider them to be kind of like "bricklayers". I don't mean bricklayers as in Pau Gasol, I mean bricklayers as in a group of people who construct something layer-by-layer (i.e. coach, players, trainers, etc). This team cannot be successfully built when you're throwing money at league rejects like Mike Brown and Mike D'Antoni. Matter of fact, don't even talk to me about Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Kevin Durant, or WHOMEVER, if you don't have a head coach in mind...and that head coach better not be MDA. 


Pau Gasol is GONE


#11 Yellow_Evan

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:44 PM

First, you start with telling MDA he's fired effective end of season

Second, you hire a coach who has not been fired and/or a defensive minded coach.

Third, you tank (which is what we're doing now).

Fourth, you draft someone and scout well.

Fifth, you push in the FA (if it includes getting Melo, so be it, as long as it is at a reasonable price)

And then you see how you roll in 2014-15. I'd say we'll find a way to be a playoff team.



#12 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:45 PM

Agreed.  OKC is a great blueprint for what the Lakers can start but with LA and the bigger market they have the chance to do it much better.  Imagine us falling into 3 max players at the age of 23?  There would be no question that we could manage that financially better than others. 

 

Team building begins with a winning mentality. First and foremost, we have to grab a head coach. It's really imperative to grab a head coach with championship experience, or a head coach with championship aspirations and one who can demonstrate what it takes to win in this league. 

 

I include the front office as part of the team building process and consider them to be kind of like "bricklayers". I don't mean bricklayers as in Pau Gasol, I mean bricklayers as in a group of people who construct something layer-by-layer (i.e. coach, players, trainers, etc). This team cannot be successfully built when you're throwing money at league rejects like Mike Brown and Mike D'Antoni. Matter of fact, don't even talk to me about Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Kevin Durant, or WHOMEVER, if you don't have a head coach in mind...and that head coach better not be MDA. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#13 BasketballIQ

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:47 PM

OKC hasn't won.

You win the way Miami did, Lakers did, Dallas did.
You need a couple homegrown youngsters

#14 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:48 PM

I agree with that but the Melo part.  If this team is going to rebuild they can't be spending paper on a 30 year old guy that thinks he's an elite player.  That deviates from the issue at hand.  Bringing in an aging star requires you to make moves to win now.  A lot of these moves will keep LA from actually contending with Kobe here.  It sucks but so be it.  I'd rather this org take time out to right the ship than to mortgage any more of the future trying to pretend like they can contend with a 35 year old volume shooter and 30 year old volume shooter and a bunch of ok to struggling to find my way pieces. 

 

First, you start with telling MDA he's fired effective end of season

Second, you hire a coach who has not been fired and/or a defensive minded coach.

Third, you tank (which is what we're doing now).

Fourth, you draft someone and scout well.

Fifth, you push in the FA (if it includes getting Melo, so be it, as long as it is at a reasonable price)

And then you see how you roll in 2014-15. I'd say we'll find a way to be a playoff team.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#15 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:50 PM

They have 2 players that could be in their grasp til the end of the decade.  KD is comfortably the 2nd best player in the game.  They could win this year depending on Westbrook.  Bottom line they have a great core and depending on the opponent or the pieces they pick and plug around those 2 they could very well win a championship.

 

When the Lakers did win a championship they were on the right path and Miami's situation is pure luck.  Grabbing 3 of the best NBA players at once almost never happens and isn't something an org should set their foundation on.

 

OKC hasn't won.

You win the way Miami did, Lakers did, Dallas did.
You need a couple homegrown youngsters


Edited by Jody Smokes, January 07, 2014 - 03:51 PM.

"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#16 BasketballIQ

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 03:52 PM

I don't see OKC winning this season.
Maybe eventually like Dallas.

#17 Windu

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 04:02 PM

Agreed.  OKC is a great blueprint for what the Lakers can start but with LA and the bigger market they have the chance to do it much better.  Imagine us falling into 3 max players at the age of 23?  There would be no question that we could manage that financially better than others. 

 

I don't think that's a blueprint that LA will be able to mimic. OKC was simply bad enough to secure the 2nd overall pick (Durant) in 2007, the 4th overall pick (Westbrook) in 2008, and the 3rd overall pick (James Harden) in 2009. Maybe we can start holding on to our draft picks and grabbing some talent mid/late first round but I don't think we'll ever be so bad as to land a top five pick...unless we keep Gasol and MDA.


Pau Gasol is GONE


#18 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 04:03 PM

I think they are severely slept on by the "Harden" crowd.  I think they are actually better than they were that year.  Most importantly KD is a much better player than he was in 11-12 season.  I'd personally like to see them play Indy in the Finals

 

I don't see OKC winning this season.
Maybe eventually like Dallas.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#19 Windu

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 04:04 PM

OKC hasn't won.

 

They've been a lot closer than the Lakers have recently and they have a superior duo and a superior head coach.


Pau Gasol is GONE


#20 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 07, 2014 - 04:07 PM

Doesn't have to as perfect but Indy has something similar.  They let Hibbert, George and Stephenson develop and come into their own not mention actually hired a coach and gave him leeway to mold his team.  2 years ago if anyone said Indy would be a top 3-4 team in the NBA everyone including me would have laughed our asses off lol.  The Kobe era is an era of pressure to win so I can see why it would be a very hard decision to do so while he's playing. 

 

I don't think that's a blueprint that LA will be able to mimic. OKC was simply bad enough to secure the 2nd overall pick (Durant) in 2007, the 4th overall pick (Westbrook) in 2008, and the 3rd overall pick (James Harden) in 2009. Maybe we can start holding on to our draft picks and grabbing some talent mid/late first round but I don't think we'll ever be so bad as to land a top five pick...unless we keep Gasol and MDA.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)





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