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If the Lakers choose to keep Pau after Jan 7th


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#61 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 04:39 PM

Awful players are rarely able to put up 23/17/6/3 or triple doubles even once during the season. I've looked at his stats and his subpar playoff performances. But they don't convince me that he's an "awful player" or the "worst defensive player in the history of the NBA." They convince me that Pau's elite days are far gone but he can still be a serviceable player in another team as a latter option.

 

And his offensive rebounds are one (0.8) less than his career average. But why does that matter? I'd rather secure defensive rebounds than offensive rebounds since that calculates towards defense and lessens the opposing team's second chance points. Pau has a career high in total rebounds.

 

FG% isn't everything. Yes, as a center Pau should have a higher FG% since shots closer to the basket equate to higher percents. Now that he's slowly starting to get to the post more, his FG% has slowly increased. But he still doesn't have the full arsenal of moves and perhaps he won't. 

 

It's more of common sense than a small sample size. Having Pau in the post creates for others and adds fluidity to the offense. You put Kaman, Hill, or Sacre and that won't happen since they aren't good at passing from deep in the post.

 

There aren't many centers that are on the wrong side of 30 giving us what Pau is. He was still on the wrong side of 30 in '10-11. But I'm not excusing his performances.

Now to your standards. Averaging 20 points, shooting 50%, and being strong defensively at almost the age of 34 is a bit high for me. That's just me though. People on this forum may have different opinions.

 

I want to trade him to get a pick and perhaps a young asset. We need a defensive anchor more than an offensive center that is well past his prime and cannot defend. But that still doesn't mean he's as awful as you constantly say. 

 

It's ONE GAME. No matter how you try to dress it up...it's ONE GAME. Why don't you drool at his recent playoff performances instead?

 

I've looked at his stats and his subpar playoff performances. But they don't convince me that he's an "awful player" or the "worst defensive player in the history of the NBA."

 

 

Then you are beyond reason. Just another example of someone ignoring a multitude of games but zeroing in on...ONE. He's definitely the worst I've ever seen and I've seen a lot. Why do you keep using the word "elite"? Easily the most overused words among basketball fans.

 

And his offensive rebounds are one (0.8) less than his career average. But why does that matter? I'd rather secure defensive rebounds than offensive rebounds since that calculates towards defense and lessens the opposing team's second chance points. Pau has a career high in total rebounds.

 

Gasol doesn't secure anything. Those boards fall in his lap. Dude has zero leaping ability and his ability to box-out is laughable.

 

FG% isn't everything. Yes, as a center Pau should have a higher FG% since shots closer to the basket equate to higher percents. Now that he's slowly starting to get to the post more, his FG% has slowly increased. But he still doesn't have the full arsenal of moves and perhaps he won't. 

 

I never said it was but for a 7 footer it's pretty telling. You'll notice that I mentioned quite a few things other than FG%. His moves never left; he simply refused to play down low and convert. He's soft.  

 

It's more of common sense than a small sample size. Having Pau in the post creates for others and adds fluidity to the offense. You put Kaman, Hill, or Sacre and that won't happen since they aren't good at passing from deep in the post.

 

Only one person keeps Pau Gasol from the low post and that's Pau Gasol. It happens all the time: Good low post position...Pau settles for jumper. I don't care about his passing while his skills (and desire) have diminished in virtually every other area of the game of basketball.

 

Now to your standards. Averaging 20 points, shooting 50%, and being strong defensively at almost the age of 34 is a bit high for me. That's just me though. People on this forum may have different opinions.

 

I'd settle for average. He can't even be that. 

 

I didn't say average 20 pts

I didn't say shoot 50%

And I didn't say be strong defensively either

 

You can keep throwing out his age all you want but I've already addressed that. 

 

I want to trade him to get a pick and perhaps a young asset. We need a defensive anchor more than an offensive center that is well past his prime and cannot defend. But that still doesn't mean he's as awful as you constantly say. 

 

You better pray we can get at least a bucket of chicken for the scrub. LA won't be able to rob another franchise when it comes to Pau Gasol. If they do, I expect Stern to step in. 

 

We need a center...PERIOD. Pau can't do anything right defensively...nor offensively. 

 

I'd like you to show me something other than defensive rebounds to prove he's NOT as awful as I say.


Edited by Windu, January 04, 2014 - 04:42 PM.

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#62 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 04:47 PM

Windu would be fine with Gasol averaging 17/9/4 on 54% shooting honestly.   

He's not asking him to be the Pau Gasol of old he's asking him to consistently play up to his level which as he has shown he CAN do much better than he had been and if we went by consistency then we'd agree he's closer to 13/10 on 43% shooting than he is to 17/9/4 on 54% shooting and it could be better if Gasol asserted himsel;f or rolled to the basket earlier like was asked for him instead of settling for jumpers when there's wide open lanes or a 6 foot 5 guy guarding him that's what WIndu's point is.  

 

Gasol has said HIMSELF that all his problems are all in his own head so yeah.     


Edited by Majesty, January 04, 2014 - 04:49 PM.

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#63 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 04:48 PM

 

Windu, I have never ignored his past performances and only zeroed in on one. I've agreed with various points you've made about his past. The only reason I brought yesterday's game is to show that Pau is capable of that. It's not his first and it most certainly won't be his last. He's not awful or the worst defensive player in the history of the NBA. Actually, it makes you beyond reason when you state phrases such as Pau "can't secure a rebound, they fall in his lap." So rebounds have magically fallen in his lap for years. That's wonderful.

 

Sorry about overusing the word "elite." I'll read a dictionary next time. 



#64 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 04:56 PM

Windu would be fine with Gasol averaging 17/9/4 on 54% shooting honestly.     

 

I'd be content with just 15/9/50% with him playing down low and some defense. And he HAS to maintain it during the playoffs. 


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#65 noknife

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 04:59 PM

I'd be content with just 15/9/50% with him playing down low and some defense. And he HAS to maintain it during the playoffs.


Playoffs? Not for this team, but hopefully he gets the chance elsewhere.

#66 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 05:03 PM

Windu, I have never ignored his past performances and only zeroed in on one. I've agreed with various points you've made about his past. The only reason I brought yesterday's game is to show that Pau is capable of that. It's not his first and it most certainly won't be his last. He's not awful or the worst defensive player in the history of the NBA. Actually, it makes you beyond reason when you state phrases such as Pau "can't secure a rebound, they fall in his lap." So rebounds have magically fallen in his lap for years. That's wonderful.

 

Sorry about overusing the word "elite." I'll read a dictionary next time. 

 

Yes you did. All you're talking about are his defensive rebounds and that one game. I don't care if he plays 20 games like that; if he doesn't show up the rest of the season and the postseason then it means nothing.

 

Why would you believe that Pau is capable of that? Happening ONCE means absolutely nothing. Go look at his monthly breakdown. 

 

Him being the "worst defensive player in NBA history" is clearly my opinion. But, it's not so far-fetched. Dude is an abomination on defense. It's downright embarrassing.

 

He's seven feet tall dude. The rebounds fall in his lap. How often do you see Pau boxing-out and FIGHTING for boards? 


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#67 Japago

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 05:22 PM

Awful defender(both man and help) and inefficient scorer(especially for a big man). His stats are strictly due to role on the team as the primary big man and the number one option on the team. He also whines a lot even though most of his problems are his fault.

 

I don't like MDA, but he's not at fault for Pau's struggles.


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#68 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 05:23 PM

Yes you did. All you're talking about are his defensive rebounds and that one game. I don't care if he plays 20 games like that; if he doesn't show up the rest of the season and the postseason then it means nothing.

 

Why would you believe that Pau is capable of that? Happening ONCE means absolutely nothing. Go look at his monthly breakdown. 

 

Him being the "worst defensive player in NBA history" is clearly my opinion. But, it's not so far-fetched. Dude is an abomination on defense. It's downright embarrassing.

 

He's seven feet tall dude. The rebounds fall in his lap. How often do you see Pau boxing-out and FIGHTING for boards? 

 

Really? All I'm talking about are his defensive rebounds and that one game? You clearly need to read my posts more carefully. I used that one game only twice and it was to point out his capabilities (not consistencies) and that he's not so bad of a player. I never used that one game to battle all of your points. As of the defensive rebounds, I only used that ONCE.

 

I'm glad you admit it's clearly your opinion.

 

Your point? Roy Hibbert is 7'2'', two inches taller than Pau. He averages about 2 rebounds less. Marc Gasol is 7'1'', yet he averages 3 rebounds less. How about Brook Lopez? I can name more 7 footers that don't even average 5 rebounds.

Yes, I see Pau boxing-out. No, I don't see Pau fighting for boards. He's too slow.

 

You'd be content with Pau averaging 15/9/50% with some defense?

He's averaging 15/9/45% with some defense (you'll disagree with the defense part).

Suddenly the 5% decrease in FG% makes him an awful player?

 

I expected Pau to put up 17/10/50%+ shooting considering he'd be the main option. Clearly he's hasn't, but that doesn't make him an awful player.



#69 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 06:28 PM

Really? All I'm talking about are his defensive rebounds and that one game? You clearly need to read my posts more carefully. I used that one game only twice and it was to point out his capabilities (not consistencies) and that he's not so bad of a player. I never used that one game to battle all of your points. As of the defensive rebounds, I only used that ONCE.

 

I'm glad you admit it's clearly your opinion.

 

Your point? Roy Hibbert is 7'2'', two inches taller than Pau. He averages about 2 rebounds less. Marc Gasol is 7'1'', yet he averages 3 rebounds less. How about Brook Lopez? I can name more 7 footers that don't even average 5 rebounds.

Yes, I see Pau boxing-out. No, I don't see Pau fighting for boards. He's too slow.

 

You'd be content with Pau averaging 15/9/50% with some defense?

He's averaging 15/9/45% with some defense (you'll disagree with the defense part).

Suddenly the 5% decrease in FG% makes him an awful player?

 

I expected Pau to put up 17/10/50%+ shooting considering he'd be the main option. Clearly he's hasn't, but that doesn't make him an awful player.

 

 

Really? All I'm talking about are his defensive rebounds and that one game? You clearly need to read my posts more carefully. I used that one game only twice and it was to point out his capabilities (not consistencies) and that he's not so bad of a player. I never used that one game to battle all of your points. As of the defensive rebounds, I only used that ONCE.

 

Ok. Then please show me something else you've stated that counters what I've said with regards to him not being a good player for a long time now. I hope you can find it because I'm sure it doesn't exist in this dimension. I've read your posts...every single word; it's the same things that every Gasol-apologist says. 

 

Your point? Roy Hibbert is 7'2'', two inches taller than Pau. He averages about 2 rebounds less. Marc Gasol is 7'1'', yet he averages 3 rebounds less. How about Brook Lopez? I can name more 7 footers that don't even average 5 rebounds.

Yes, I see Pau boxing-out. No, I don't see Pau fighting for boards. He's too slow.

 

Pau Gasol does not SECURE rebounds. If anything, he's likely to get stripped immediately after a rebound falls into his lap. 

 

I'm not talking about any other player...I'm talking about Pau Gasol. Roy Hibbert has never averaged 10 RPG...EVER. All you've done is simply point out another seven footer who should have more boards than he actually does. What's Marc's last name? So because his peers are average on the boards, it's ok for Pau Gasol to be average too?

 

You must be watching different games.

 

You'd be content with Pau averaging 15/9/50% with some defense?

He's averaging 15/9/45% with some defense (you'll disagree with the defense part).

Suddenly the 5% decrease in FG% makes him an awful player?

 

ZERO defense and a 5% FG difference is a big deal for a seven footer (DEAD LAST among qualified centers - in other words, behind those centers you mentioned).  He has been a CONSISTENTLY awful player. If he's not, why hasn't he shown up in the playoffs in forever? I'll answer that for you: It's because he's trash.

 

I expected Pau to put up 17/10/50%+ shooting considering he'd be the main option

 

Why? Because he did it two years ago? 

 

So yeh, what's up with his playoff performances? I've heard all the poor excuses...what's yours?


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#70 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 06:46 PM

Ok let's talk recent playoffs.

Pau averaged something like 14ppg 10-12rpg and 8apg in the playoffs last season.

I'd say that's pretty good lol

Edited by MrKnowItAll, January 04, 2014 - 06:47 PM.


#71 LakeShow805

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 06:54 PM

Ok let's talk recent playoffs.

Pau averaged something like 14ppg 10-12rpg and 8apg in the playoffs last season.

I'd say that's pretty good lol

14/11.5/6.5 on 48% shooting.  Pretty average considering its a 4 game sample.

 

When he played more than 4 games (2012 playoffs), 12.5/9.5 on 43% shooting


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#72 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 06:58 PM

Ok let's talk recent playoffs.

Pau averaged something like 14ppg 10-12rpg and 8apg in the playoffs last season.

I'd say that's pretty good lol

 

54837-Mr-Burns-excellent-gif-HftC.gif

 

 

Pau averaged something like 14ppg 10-12rpg and 8apg in the playoffs last season.

 

4 games, under 50% FG (36% and 44% in the last two games), couldn't get to the charity stripe (only 55% when he did), 3 turnovers per game.

 

Pretty good, huh?


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#73 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 07:01 PM

Ok. Then please show me something else you've stated that counters what I've said with regards to him not being a good player for a long time now. I hope you can find it because I'm sure it doesn't exist in this dimension. I've read your posts...every single word; it's the same things that every Gasol-apologist says. 

 

 

Pau Gasol does not SECURE rebounds. If anything, he's likely to get stripped immediately after a rebound falls into his lap. 

 

I'm not talking about any other player...I'm talking about Pau Gasol. Roy Hibbert has never averaged 10 RPG...EVER. All you've done is simply point out another seven footer who should have more boards than he actually does. What's Marc's last name? So because his peers are average on the boards, it's ok for Pau Gasol to be average too?

 

You must be watching different games.

 

 

ZERO defense and a 5% FG difference is a big deal for a seven footer (DEAD LAST among qualified centers - in other words, behind those centers you mentioned).  He has been a CONSISTENTLY awful player. If he's not, why hasn't he shown up in the playoffs in forever? I'll answer that for you: It's because he's trash.

 

 

Why? Because he did it two years ago? 

 

So yeh, what's up with his playoff performances? I've heard all the poor excuses...what's yours?

 

You've regressed from saying "Pau REALLY is that bad" to him "not being a good player." There's a difference between a player being downright awful vs. not being that good/playing to his standards. I'm perfectly fine with your current statement.

 

Averaging 9.5 rebounds is enough for me to consider Pau a solid rebounder. Yes, there were a few games where Pau could not secure a defensive rebound multiple times in one possession. He's no Jordan Hill. He's not quick or athletic enough to be. But he's averaging 9.5 rebounds and that's a merit in itself. 

 

You mentioned how Pau is "seven feet tall, dude." I have the right to quote other players that are taller and still not rebounding as much as him. 

Zero defense is completely absurd. At the very least, he's averaging 1.4 blocks which is higher than Bosh, Noah, Cousins, etc. I'm not saying Pau's better than them. It's just a comparative perspective.

 

You're comparing me to a Pau Gasol apologist to which I am not. You're forcing me to defend his past playoff performances that I have never condoned. Like I've stated more than seven times, I simply stated that Pau isn't as awful as you make him out to be.



#74 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 07:56 PM

54837-Mr-Burns-excellent-gif-HftC.gif



4 games, under 50% FG (36% and 44% in the last two games), couldn't get to the charity stripe (only 55% when he did), 3 turnovers per game.

Pretty good, huh?

Exactly, that's the difference between you and I. You try to knit pick, I used the main statistics and you wanna use FT%

#75 LakeShow805

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:28 PM

Exactly, that's the difference between you and I. You try to knit pick, I used the main statistics and you wanna use FT%

You used a 4 game sample....which was average.


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#76 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:28 PM

You've regressed from saying "Pau REALLY is that bad" to him "not being a good player." There's a difference between a player being downright awful vs. not being that good/playing to his standards. I'm perfectly fine with your current statement.

 

Averaging 9.5 rebounds is enough for me to consider Pau a solid rebounder. Yes, there were a few games where Pau could not secure a defensive rebound multiple times in one possession. He's no Jordan Hill. He's not quick or athletic enough to be. But he's averaging 9.5 rebounds and that's a merit in itself. 

 

You mentioned how Pau is "seven feet tall, dude." I have the right to quote other players that are taller and still not rebounding as much as him. 

Zero defense is completely absurd. At the very least, he's averaging 1.4 blocks which is higher than Bosh, Noah, Cousins, etc. I'm not saying Pau's better than them. It's just a comparative perspective.

 

You're comparing me to a Pau Gasol apologist to which I am not. You're forcing me to defend his past playoff performances that I have never condoned. Like I've stated more than seven times, I simply stated that Pau isn't as awful as you make him out to be.

 

You've regressed from saying "Pau REALLY is that bad" to him "not being a good player." There's a difference between a player being downright awful vs. not being that good/playing to his standards. I'm perfectly fine with your current statement.

 

I've regressed?  :nervous:

 

Look at my signature...it's been there for a long time. I'm pretty consistent in pointing out how bad Pau Gasol is. Why? Because he never ceases to "disappoint". 

 

Averaging 9.5 rebounds is enough for me to consider Pau a solid rebounder. Yes, there were a few games where Pau could not secure a defensive rebound multiple times in one possession. He's no Jordan Hill. He's not quick or athletic enough to be. But he's averaging 9.5 rebounds and that's a merit in itself. 

 

Seen it before...not impressed. Too many flaws in the rest of his game.

 

You mentioned how Pau is "seven feet tall, dude." I have the right to quote other players that are taller and still not rebounding as much as him. 

Zero defense is completely absurd. At the very least, he's averaging 1.4 blocks which is higher than Bosh, Noah, Cousins, etc. I'm not saying Pau's better than them. It's just a comparative perspective.

 

I said he's seven feet tall because it should be fairly obvious that a seven footer should have little problem with grabbing some boards. You don't get kudos for doing something you should be doing in the first place. Zero defense is on point. It's like he's not even there when opponents take it to him. Blocks are not indicative of a good defensive player. I thought everyone in the world knew that by now. Did you watch these past playoff series...AT ALL? Rebounding is more about effort and heart than anything else. 

 

You're comparing me to a Pau Gasol apologist to which I am not. You're forcing me to defend his past playoff performances that I have never condoned. Like I've stated more than seven times, I simply stated that Pau isn't as awful as you make him out to be.

 

Didn't you say these things?

 

Gasol would be able to play heavier minutes than Bynum and help them get into the playoffs.

 

That's a nice fantasy that I hope Gilbert buys into.

 

The first thing you said to me was:

 

23 points/17 rebounds/8 assists/3 blocks

 

That was in response to me telling another poster that Pau really is that bad. So your counter-argument to me was...ONE GAME.

 

Then you had the nerve to say his pathetic numbers "aren't that bad" lol. How much lower can the scrub go?


Edited by Windu, January 04, 2014 - 08:33 PM.

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#77 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:29 PM


You used a 4 game sample....which was average.


He uses examples from 3 years ago. Who the [expletive] really uses stats from three years ago to judge a player now?

#78 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:40 PM

He uses examples from 3 years ago. Who the [expletive] really uses stats from three years ago to judge a player now?

 

You're terrible lol!

 

I remember you being ghost during those playoff runs too. You wait until the heat settles down and then you start running your mouth with no material to back up your statements.

 

This season not recent enough for you? Can't get anymore recent than that.

 

How about last season? That recent enough for you? 

 

All the postseasons are recent...know why? BECAUSE HE'S BEEN TRASH IN THE LAST THREE


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#79 LakeShow805

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:46 PM

He uses examples from 3 years ago. Who the [expletive] really uses stats from three years ago to judge a player now?

Because those years show that Pau has been declining.

 

 

And he is still trash NOW.


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#80 CaliforniaSoul

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:20 PM

He uses examples from 3 years ago. Who the [expletive] really uses stats from three years ago to judge a player now?

Stats from three years ago leading to this season pretty clearly show that Pau has been on a steady decline for awhile now.






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