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If the Lakers choose to keep Pau after Jan 7th


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#21 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:28 AM

How are you doing to cite ONE game to me lol? Is that supposed to mean...anything?

 

I'll see your one game of 23/17/8/3 and raise you the months of December (16/8/3/46%) and November (15/10/3/43%)

 

Your move...

 

The numbers you posted don't make Gasol "really that bad" as you phrased earlier. My point was that Gasol isn't as bad as you make him out to be. 

 

Yes he should be shooting over 50% and putting effort on defense. But at the very least at this point of his career, he's an average player, no?



#22 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:33 AM

The numbers you posted don't make Gasol "really that bad" as you phrased earlier. My point was that Gasol isn't as bad as you make him out to be. 

 

Yes he should be shooting over 50% and putting effort on defense. But at the very least at this point of his career, he's an average player, no?

 

Worse defense of any player in the history of the NBA.

 

A seven footer with a FG% like that? Pathetic. He isn't anywhere near 50% either.

 

He's bringing down one more board than he did last season...awesome.


Pau Gasol is GONE


#23 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:44 AM

Worse defense of any player in the history of the NBA.

 

A seven footer with a FG% like that? Pathetic. He isn't anywhere near 50% either.

 

He's bringing down one more board than he did last season...awesome.

 

I disagree with Pau having the worst defense of any player in the history of the NBA.

I do agree that his FG% and rebounds should be higher. 

 

Again, my point was that Pau isn't as awful as you make him out to be. Personally, I feel he'll do better with another team without all the constant trade rumors flowing around him. You'll of course disagree with that, and I respect your opinion.

Only time will tell.



#24 avcpl

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:47 AM

lol, why people continue to argue with someone the actually believes this is beyond me...there is obviously something else going on here...

 

Worse defense of any player in the history of the NBA.



#25 noknife

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 11:59 AM

lol, why people continue to argue with someone the actually believes this is beyond me...there is obviously something else going on here...

 

He isn't even remotely close to the worst defender in the league, heck, he isn't even the worst defender on the Lakers. 



#26 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:01 PM

Not sure why people waste more than a post arguing with Windu about anything at this point.


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#27 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:02 PM

Let's stay on topic. ^^



#28 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:07 PM

I disagree with Pau having the worst defense of any player in the history of the NBA.

I do agree that his FG% and rebounds should be higher. 

 

Again, my point was that Pau isn't as awful as you make him out to be. Personally, I feel he'll do better with another team without all the constant trade rumors flowing around him. You'll of course disagree with that, and I respect your opinion.

Only time will tell.

 

In all my years of watching this sport, I have not seen ANYONE play worse defense than Pau Gasol. And that is NOT an exaggeration. 

 

His FG% is pathetic, his defense is pathetic, his effort is pathetic, his last couple of seasons are pathetic, his last few playoff performances are pathetic. The facts are there to back my statements up. Why else would I have I been saying it since '10/'11? 

 

I have no problem with someone arguing their position...provided they provide some material to back up their statements. You can't just say "Oh he doesn't suck" when his play says otherwise. 

 

Playing on another team won't fix Pau Gasol's inability to defend. 

 

Playing under another coach/system won't fix Pau Gasol. Why? He's sucked under three entirely different systems and coaches. When Phil Jackson has to punch you in the chest, that speaks volumes.


Pau Gasol is GONE


#29 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:45 PM

In all my years of watching this sport, I have not seen ANYONE play worse defense than Pau Gasol. And that is NOT an exaggeration. 

 

His FG% is pathetic, his defense is pathetic, his effort is pathetic, his last couple of seasons are pathetic, his last few playoff performances are pathetic. The facts are there to back my statements up. Why else would I have I been saying it since '10/'11? 

 

I have no problem with someone arguing their position...provided they provide some material to back up their statements. You can't just say "Oh he doesn't suck" when his play says otherwise. 

 

Playing on another team won't fix Pau Gasol's inability to defend. 

 

Playing under another coach/system won't fix Pau Gasol. Why? He's sucked under three entirely different systems and coaches. When Phil Jackson has to punch you in the chest, that speaks volumes.

 

You'd rather have Andrea Bargani, Antawn Jamison, etc. play defense?

Since you admire facts, why don't you provide some displaying that Pau is the worst defensive player in the history of the NBA?

 

I don't need to as you already provided the material for me. I agreed that his FG% and rebounds should be higher. Those are serviceable numbers. They don't make Pau awful. If I had been arguing that Pau is the best center in the NBA, then all of your points would have merit to them. 

 

Much of defense has to do with effort. However, I never made the assertion that Pau will be a better defender with another team. I said he'll play better. And Pau was known for his elite offense, not defense. 



#30 noknife

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:46 PM

In all my years of watching this sport, I have not seen ANYONE play worse defense than Pau Gasol. And that is NOT an exaggeration. 

 

His FG% is pathetic, his defense is pathetic, his effort is pathetic, his last couple of seasons are pathetic, his last few playoff performances are pathetic. The facts are there to back my statements up. Why else would I have I been saying it since '10/'11? 

 

I have no problem with someone arguing their position...provided they provide some material to back up their statements. You can't just say "Oh he doesn't suck" when his play says otherwise. 

 

Playing on another team won't fix Pau Gasol's inability to defend. 

 

Playing under another coach/system won't fix Pau Gasol. Why? He's sucked under three entirely different systems and coaches. When Phil Jackson has to punch you in the chest, that speaks volumes.

 

Statistically speaking, he is one of the best and most consistent Laker this season.  I'm not defending him, but you act like he is the worst player in the league.  Fact is he would start for every team in the NBA other than a handful that have truly elite 4's and in that case would probably be their starting 5 and would be an effective player as well. He was also the cornerstone to the Lakers moving from a lottery or one and done playoff squad to a team that went to 3 NBA Finals in a row and won 2 of them.  You just don't like him, and so do a lot of people on this board, he is far from the reason that the Lakers are in the place that they are.



#31 lakers1o1

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 12:56 PM

Pau obviously isn't the player that he use to be and his game has diminished on several aspects but the amount of hate he gets at times is questionable, especially from Windu.  By no means is he the worst defender in the NBA and he definitely makes some sort of contribution towards the teams success.  Is his mediocre performance worth $19 million on an annual basis?  Of course not, not even $10 million to say the least, but his presence on the court, basketball IQ, and other aspects should be notable.  It's not a major statistic but what is interesting is that the 3 games in which Pau has missed this season, the Lakers have lost.


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#32 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:21 PM

You'd rather have Andrea Bargani, Antawn Jamison, etc. play defense?

Since you admire facts, why don't you provide some displaying that Pau is the worst defensive player in the history of the NBA?

 

I don't need to as you already provided the material for me. I agreed that his FG% and rebounds should be higher. Those are serviceable numbers. They don't make Pau awful. If I had been arguing that Pau is the best center in the NBA, then all of your points would have merit to them. 

 

Much of defense has to do with effort. However, I never made the assertion that Pau will be a better defender with another team. I said he'll play better. And Pau was known for his elite offense, not defense. 

 

You're the one who posted statistics from ONE GAME as if that proves something contrary to what I've been saying for many years now.

 

At the PF/C positions? Yes, I'd rather those guys "play defense" than Pau Gasol. Pau doesn't do anything on defense; he's just tall and lanky...but slow, soft, nonathletic, no defensive-intensity...he's a matador. Point guards drive into him and finish easily. 

 

What kind of statistic can I show you of Kenneth Fareid abusing Pau Gasol? You didn't see that series? 

 

What kind of statistic can I show you of Carl Landry abusing Pau Gasol? You didn't see that series?

 

Is there a soft/flopping statistic that I can show you? I've watched virtually every second of this guy's play since he's come to LA...his softness is so obvious. He can get backed down easily, he has slow feet and poor lateral movement. Poor defensive awareness. Dude gets bullied on the defensive side of the ball; I mean it's just the worse display of defense I've ever seen. 

 

Those are not serviceable numbers. Are you serious? Those are numbers that lose your team games. There are perimeter players who shoot better percentages than he does. Dude is right there near the basket and he's clanking 'em. Or he's settling for those ugly jumpers (whereby he doesn't have to worry about getting physical). 

 

What have you seen that could possibly make you believe that this guy would play better on another team? Same basket, same court, same opponents. 

 

His offense isn't elite and hasn't been for quite some time. Pau needs to worry about being average on defense before he could ever consider being elite.


Edited by Windu, January 04, 2014 - 02:23 PM.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#33 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:25 PM

Statistically speaking

 

Let's see 'em...


Pau Gasol is GONE


#34 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:27 PM

It's not a major statistic but what is interesting is that the 3 games in which Pau has missed this season, the Lakers have lost.

 

This team is five games under .500


Pau Gasol is GONE


#35 noknife

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:30 PM

Let's see 'em...


You can find them. They are published on ESPN (it's a small sports related site) and just about every other NBA site. Then you can compare his stats with his other team mates, heck some of the sites will just tell you his team rank, you might want to do that as it will save some processing on your very limited brain. God speed and good luck.

#36 Windu

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:36 PM

You can find them. They are published on ESPN (it's a small sports related site) and just about every other NBA site. Then you can compare his stats with his other team mates, heck some of the sites will just tell you his team rank, you might want to do that as it will save some processing on your very limited brain. God speed and good luck.

 

I don't need to find 'em. Trust me, I know 'em by heart. 

 

But you go right ahead and post 'em...


Edited by Windu, January 04, 2014 - 02:36 PM.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#37 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:47 PM

You can find them. They are published on ESPN (it's a small sports related site) and just about every other NBA site. Then you can compare his stats with his other team mates, heck some of the sites will just tell you his team rank, you might want to do that as it will save some processing on your very limited brain. God speed and good luck.



So you have nothing? 


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#38 Ham

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:48 PM



So you have nothing? 

:o)


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#39 Clutch Factor

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:50 PM

You're the one who posted statistics from ONE GAME as if that proves something contrary to what I've been saying for many years now.

 

At the PF/C positions? Yes, I'd rather those guys "play defense" than Pau Gasol. Pau doesn't do anything on defense; he's just tall and lanky...but slow, soft, nonathletic, no defensive-intensity...he's a matador. Point guards drive into him and finish easily. 

 

What kind of statistic can I show you of Kenneth Fareid abusing Pau Gasol? You didn't see that series? 

 

What kind of statistic can I show you of Carl Landry abusing Pau Gasol? You didn't see that series?

 

Is there a soft/flopping statistic that I can show you? I've watched virtually every second of this guy's play since he's come to LA...his softness is so obvious. He can get backed down easily, he has slow feet and poor lateral movement. Poor defensive awareness. Dude gets bullied on the defensive side of the ball; I mean it's just the worse display of defense I've ever seen. 

 

Those are not serviceable numbers. Are you serious? Those are numbers that lose your team games. There are perimeter players who shoot better percentages than he does. Dude is right there near the basket and he's clanking 'em. Or he's settling for those ugly jumpers (whereby he doesn't have to worry about getting physical). 

 

What have you seen that could possibly make you believe that this guy would play better on another team? Same basket, same court, same opponents. 

 

His offense isn't elite and hasn't been for quite some time. Pau needs to worry about being average on defense before he could ever consider being elite.

 

Yes, I did post those stats from one game. I've stated numerous times that Pau will have elite games but he won't be able to sustain them. I won't be surprised if he starts producing triple doubles in a row. Will that mean he's an elite center? No, but he's not an awful player. 

 

I'm not sure why you'd rather have those play defense but alright. Although defensive rebounds have been one of our weaknesses, Pau's 9th out of all the centers this year. He's ahead of Joakim Noah, Marc Gasol, Chris Bosh, Tyson Chandler, Roy Hibbert, etc. 

Once again, Pau was NEVER known for his defense. His offensive game used to be so elite that it clouded over his defensive deficiencies. 

 

Yes, those are serviceable numbers and Pau is a serviceable player. He can draw double teams and effectively create plays for others. Notice how terrible our 3P% was those games Pau was out? You're setting too high of a standard for Pau. He will be 34 years old soon. There aren't many centers that play at that age. At his age and this stage of his career, yes he is a serviceable center. 

 

There is more to basketball than the tangible aspects. He'll be able to play free from trade rumors. He won't become defensive player of the year but he has the ability to produce 17/10 on 50%+ shooting on another team.


Edited by Clutch Factor, January 04, 2014 - 02:51 PM.


#40 noknife

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 02:51 PM

I don't need to find 'em. Trust me, I know 'em by heart. 

 

But you go right ahead and post 'em...

 

Pau Gasol's stats for the season.

 

Points Per Game:  15.3 (2nd on the team)

Minutes Per Game:  30.4 (3rd on the team)

Offensive Rebounds Per Game:  1.9 (2nd on the team)

Defensive Rebounds Per Game:  7.6 (1st on the team)

Overall Rebounds Per Game:  9.5 (1st on the team)

Assists Per Game:  3.2 (6th on team) not really a relevant statistic for a 4 or 5.

Blocks Per Game:  1.4 (1st on team)

 

Thus are just statistics, so you can use your own subjectivity to twist it however you'd like.






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