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I have a feeling the Lakers make a big deal in the next few weeks


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#81 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:03 PM

I'm not disagreeing with that but to say b/c they didn't draft Melo they robbed themselves of a dynasty?  That's nonsense. 



Oh yeah.. the Pistons who made the finals the very next year and lost in 7 to San Antonio, and then for the next 4 years made the Eastern Conference finals each while also being one of the greatest defensive teams of all time WOULDN'T have had a shot at a dynasty had they drafted Carmelo instead of Darko who gave them a whopping 1.5 points per game while Carmelo was good enough to get his last place Nuggets to the playoffs every year?  

Riiiight, good luck finding a majority that actually think that.  


Edited by Majesty, January 04, 2014 - 03:04 PM.

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#82 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:04 PM


Btw, leading the league in scoring means nothing when you aren't winning. The last time a team won with the scoring champion was Shaq 14 years ago I believe.


Kobe was leading the league in scoring and wasn't winning [expletive], just like melo. It's when Kobe got help that he won without shaq.

#83 Mike D'Antoni

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:05 PM

I believe dwade would have been more effective than melo. Dwade played like an all star immediately

#84 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:06 PM

You act like melo plays no defense whatsoever and is one of the worst defensive players ever. Do u even watch him play?

Edited by MrKnowItAll, January 04, 2014 - 03:06 PM.


#85 Ham

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:07 PM

A lot of that had to do with Tayshaun Prince guarding premier scoring wings as well...Melo would have been a hole in their scheme.  Everything isn't about pure talent when winning championships.  Those Pistons teams were better off with Prince than Melo.  Now if you want to make the argument that Melo would have benefited them after that team got older then sure, but Melo in his rookie and 2nd seasons wouldn't have made them a dynasty at all.

lmfao. your telling me a melo coming off the bench (which would most likely happen) wouldn't be better than darko. and help them in that spurs series. you're delusional my friend. 


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#86 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:10 PM

lmfao. your telling me a melo coming off the bench (which would most likely happen) wouldn't be better than darko. and help them in that spurs series. you're delusional my friend. 


Hey Darko's 1.5 points per game was important dude.    There's no way the Pistons that lost in 7 to San Antonio, and made the Eastern Conference finals 4 years in a row after that would have had a shot at a dynasty with a talent like Melo or Wade on their team instead. 

He'd have single handedly ruined all of their top 4 offense and top 5 defense up single handedly.   Darko and his unselfish 1.5 points per game obviously is what kept that team together through this process.  But a pure scorer like Carmelo that lead the last place Nuggets to the playoffs, a feat that took LeBron 3 years to accomplish?  pffffft! screw that lol!!  Darko all the way!!!  He got a ring before either Melo or LeBron but does he get credit?!?! NO!!  

pfft!! media...


Edited by Majesty, January 04, 2014 - 03:11 PM.

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#87 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:10 PM

Never said he wouldn't help.  The debate started at he would have made them a dynasty.  That is false.  If you know anything about Larry Brown, Melo probably would have been used sparingly on that team.  It's all about fit, chemistry and schemes.  They would have had to change a lot of what they were doing to fit in a trigger happy player that played no D.

 

lmfao. your telling me a melo coming off the bench (which would most likely happen) wouldn't be better than darko. and help them in that spurs series. you're delusional my friend. 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#88 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:12 PM

To be considered an elite player you have to be more than a ball hog and a bad defender.  I question if YOU ever watched him play.

 

You act like melo plays no defense whatsoever and is one of the worst defensive players ever. Do u even watch him play?


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#89 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:13 PM


To be considered an elite player you have to be more than a ball hog and a bad defender. I question if YOU ever watched him play.


I have league pass and watch him play a lot of his games.

#90 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:14 PM

Certainly doesn't look that way.

 

I have league pass and watch him play a lot of his games.


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#91 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:16 PM

Yes because the Pistons who were one point away from sweeping the Spurs in 4 straight games after the Spurs started the Finals 2-0 in games against them couldn't possibly have won a second championship if they had Carmelo(even sparingly) other than Darko who didn't even play that often  -_-    Nor have a chance at a dynasty while they made the Eastern Conference finals 4 straight years after.

Of course you refuse to entertain the prospect that coming into the league his rookie season with a coach like Larry Brown and a system like Detroit may have been the best possible thing for a rookie like Carmelo in terms of his own growth.     But that's beside the point as well apparently.   Even if Carmelo was reduced to scoring 15 ppg off the bench it would have done more than Darko did.   You have a guy that has the capability of taking a last place team to the finals yet you for whatever reason think that had he been drafted by Detroit he would have single handedly still been a shot chucker, played no defense, and all around ruined the entire system.

You're aware that a past his prime Billups was what caused Melo to get over the hump in the playoffs initially correct?   And Billups was there tasked to try to help him along.  That's ONE player from that dynasty

It was there that Billups formed the opinion after getting to know and work with Melo that IF HE had had Melo from his rookie year on in Detroit with the Pistons that the Pistons would have been a dynasty. 

But what the heck does Chauncey know right? 

Know what's funnier Jody?  I'm not sure if you're the one that said this but if you are it's interesting. 

That Carmelo in order to be fully utilized needs a good point guard and a defensive presence to protect the rim,


Yeah.. prime Chauncey Billups as the point guard, and prime Ben Wallace as the center..


Well [expletive].  


Edited by Majesty, January 04, 2014 - 03:21 PM.

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#92 Real Deal

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:37 PM

I'm actually going to say that Melo would not have helped form a dynasty in Detroit, simply because he would have ate up a good 35+ minutes a night on the floor, which would either remove Prince as a major factor defending scoring guards/forwards OR remove Rip as a spot-up shooter playing off of Billups and Sheed...but, additionally, would have hurt Detroit by altering where Sheed was on the court.

 

Don't forget that Sheed was really a huge, huge reason for them winning it all.  When he came over from Portland (I really don't consider him a player for the Hawks that year, since he played one game), he was put into a situation where he could score from anywhere on the court, but also knew not to hog the ball...even though he probably could.

 

So when I go back and look at the road they took to win it all...no, I don't see the Pistons beating the Nets in the second round.  It was Prince who changed the series, even though they went 7 games, because Richard Jefferson (who was playing VERY good basketball, shooting nearly 50% and leading the team in scoring) was shut down by Prince...and it was Rip Hamilton who played the best for Detroit, a guy that would most definitely NOT find any benefit in having Carmelo as a teammate in Detroit.

 

Melo would have changed the roles Prince and Hamilton had on that team.  That's elite defense from Prince and possibly the third-greatest off-the-ball player in NBA history in Hamilton (after Reggie and Ray Ray).  Does Carmelo's 20 points, poor defense, lack of passing ability and lack of experience make up for that?  No way.

 

Basketball isn't about acquiring good players, it's about putting great teams together. Detroit was a great team that eventually lost to a greater team in the Spurs.  If Melo was drafted to the Pistons, LA would have been playing the Pacers in the Finals.



#93 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 03:42 PM

I'm actually going to say that Melo would not have helped form a dynasty in Detroit, simply because he would have ate up a good 35+ minutes a night on the floor, which would either remove Prince as a major factor defending scoring guards/forwards OR remove Rip as a spot-up shooter playing off of Billups and Sheed...but, additionally, would have hurt Detroit by altering where Sheed was on the court.

 

Don't forget that Sheed was really a huge, huge reason for them winning it all.  When he came over from Portland (I really don't consider him a player for the Hawks that year, since he played one game), he was put into a situation where he could score from anywhere on the court, but also knew not to hog the ball...even though he probably could.

 

So when I go back and look at the road they took to win it all...no, I don't see the Pistons beating the Nets in the second round.  It was Prince who changed the series, even though they went 7 games, because Richard Jefferson (who was playing VERY good basketball, shooting nearly 50% and leading the team in scoring) was shut down by Prince...and it was Rip Hamilton who played the best for Detroit, a guy that would most definitely NOT find any benefit in having Carmelo as a teammate in Detroit.

 

Melo would have changed the roles Prince and Hamilton had on that team.  That's elite defense from Prince and possibly the third-greatest off-the-ball player in NBA history in Hamilton (after Reggie and Ray Ray).  Does Carmelo's 20 points, poor defense, lack of passing ability and lack of experience make up for that?  No way.

 

Basketball isn't about acquiring good players, it's about putting great teams together. Detroit was a great team that eventually lost to a greater team in the Spurs.  If Melo was drafted to the Pistons, LA would have been playing the Pacers in the Finals.


And if the Pistons had drafted Dwayne Wade? 


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#94 Chad

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 05:49 PM

Iverson was the best PG/SG that Melo has played with. The thought of Iverson makes Hollinger head explode.

 

 

 

Nobody wants to play with him, which is why players weren't exactly flocking to accept LA's midlevel exception this summer. That's the one argument I can see for somebody like Nash vs. somebody like Kobe -- everybody wants to be Nash's teammate, and nobody wants to be Kobe's, and that impacts the quality of personnel their teams can acquire.

 

According to Hollinger, I guess we should trade Kobe now if we ever want to go after Love. Nobody wants to play with Kobe unless we are making trades forcing them to come to the Lakers with Kobe on the team. Keep Nash though.

 

Nonetheless, we can safely say that the Lakers look dramatically better than they did 24 hours ago. Their biggest weakness, point guard, is now a strength. I'm not sure it has the Thunder quaking in their boots, but we can probably pencil in L.A. alongside San Antonio as Oklahoma City's strongest contender for Western supremacy.

 

Kobe/Pau/Nash/Bynum=Contenders.


 

Let's not mince words: Right now, McGrady is flat-out the best player in basketball. It's not even a close call. His current average of 32.4 points per game is the highest in the league in 10 years, and if you eliminate players named "Jordan" from the equation, it's the highest since Bernard King averaged 32.9 in 1984-85.

 

And yet, when the topic of MVP comes up, McGrady's name is mysteriously absent. Despite putting up the best scoring season in a decade and taking an otherwise talentless team into the postseason, all eyes have been focused westward, toward Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett.

 

All three are great players and worthy candidates in another year. But McGrady has been head and shoulders above the rest, and in a fair world, his amazing 40-game stretch should have cemented the award a long time ago.


McGrady take his horrible constructed team to the playoffs he should be MVP, but when Kobe was doing the same thing with a crappy team taking them to the playoffs in the much better west scoring 35PPG...he still picks LeBron. Kobe was head and shoulders above the rest that season!

 

 

 

 

Tom (Cleveland): If Kobe Bryant won the MVP over LeBron this year, would it be the biggest MVP joke of all time?

SportsNation John Hollinger: It would be up there, but it wouldn't be the worst. To cite two recent examples, Nash's second one and Iverson's were more egregious errors.

Jay (Detroit, MI): How is Kobe winning it a joke? His stats are on-par with LeBrons and his team has a better record. Not to mention his pension for late-game heroics this season. You are a Kobe-h ater...

SportsNation John Hollinger: If a vote were held today and Kobe won, with LeBron having one of the single greatest seasons of all time (arguably the greatest, in fact) and his team having a basically identical record with a visibly inferior supporting cast ... yes, that would be an abomination of a vote.
 

He picked Kobe 5th in the MVP in 08-09 season, and 09-10. 4th in his MVP year. :ranting:

 

 

According to Hollinger.

 

LeBron has been better than Kobe since his first game he ever played in Sacramento.

 

Wade is better than Kobe.

 

He was also against Rose getting the MVP in 2011, and this was after the team was riddled with injuries. Rose put that team on his back, and took them to 1st in the East.

 

Picked him 4th.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#95 CaliforniaSoul

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 05:55 PM

John Hollinger is definitely a Laker hater lol, I used to read his pieces when you didn't have to be an insider and he would say a lot of stuff about LA(and his opinions in general) that would make me SMH.



#96 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 06:33 PM

5 rings.

#97 Real Deal

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:30 PM


And if the Pistons had drafted Dwayne Wade? 

Wade does more than score the ball, and he's a primary two-guard.  That's an entirely different story.  Detroit would have won at least two rings.



#98 Jody Smokes

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:39 PM

Thank you for the knowledge

 

I'm actually going to say that Melo would not have helped form a dynasty in Detroit, simply because he would have ate up a good 35+ minutes a night on the floor, which would either remove Prince as a major factor defending scoring guards/forwards OR remove Rip as a spot-up shooter playing off of Billups and Sheed...but, additionally, would have hurt Detroit by altering where Sheed was on the court.

 

Don't forget that Sheed was really a huge, huge reason for them winning it all.  When he came over from Portland (I really don't consider him a player for the Hawks that year, since he played one game), he was put into a situation where he could score from anywhere on the court, but also knew not to hog the ball...even though he probably could.

 

So when I go back and look at the road they took to win it all...no, I don't see the Pistons beating the Nets in the second round.  It was Prince who changed the series, even though they went 7 games, because Richard Jefferson (who was playing VERY good basketball, shooting nearly 50% and leading the team in scoring) was shut down by Prince...and it was Rip Hamilton who played the best for Detroit, a guy that would most definitely NOT find any benefit in having Carmelo as a teammate in Detroit.

 

Melo would have changed the roles Prince and Hamilton had on that team.  That's elite defense from Prince and possibly the third-greatest off-the-ball player in NBA history in Hamilton (after Reggie and Ray Ray).  Does Carmelo's 20 points, poor defense, lack of passing ability and lack of experience make up for that?  No way.

 

Basketball isn't about acquiring good players, it's about putting great teams together. Detroit was a great team that eventually lost to a greater team in the Spurs.  If Melo was drafted to the Pistons, LA would have been playing the Pacers in the Finals.


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#99 LakeShow805

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:43 PM


And if the Pistons had drafted Dwayne Wade? 

Weren't you just saying Melo would make them a dynasty....? lol



#100 Majesty

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Posted January 04, 2014 - 08:59 PM

Weren't you just saying Melo would make them a dynasty....? lol


Yes, and I also said that Melo would have helped a lot more and given them a shot at it.  Although my first comment was quoting Billups on it and then the rest was defending that Melo would have made a difference for that team even if it was a reduced role. 

Then it became about basically arguing that Carmelo would have made a difference and much more than Darko and would have given them a shot even if he was just coming off the bench and scoring 15 at a reduced role as Jody was trying to say that Melo would have had a reduced role as to not throw things off.    RD is going from the perspective of Melo getting 35 a game.   

I also said the overall botched effort of the front office cost them because they not only passed on Melo they passed on Wade, Bosh etc.  But you missed that, no probs here you go. 

 

 



yes the same Pistons.  Them beating us has nothing to do with the fact they still could have drafted Carmelo and that's why they only have one championship.   

Their one and done could have been a dynasty if not for that one botched front office decision.  Billups has stated this ihho.    Because not only did they pass up on Melo, they passed up on Wade and Bosh, for Darko.  So yeah.



 


Edited by Majesty, January 04, 2014 - 09:00 PM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 





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