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Official Andrew Wiggins vs. Jabari Parker Discussion Thread


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#101 Lakerace24

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 11:46 AM


Parker is better at everything TBH. Wiggins just has the extreme upside since he's freakishly athletic. But Skill wise, Parker is far better and it ain't even close.

 

Edit- Wiggins might get the nod defensively I guess.

The first bolded part, just false.

 

The second bolded part, might get the nod defensively? You guess? Wiggins is the superior defender and that's just a fact.

 

Parker may have the more well rounded offensive game (better shooter, a bit more skilled, can't attack like Wiggins can though), but that is it.



#102 Paris

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 11:58 AM

The first bolded part, just false.

 

The second bolded part, might get the nod defensively? You guess? Wiggins is the superior defender and that's just a fact.

 

Parker may have the more well rounded offensive game (better shooter, a bit more skilled, can't attack like Wiggins can though), but that is it.

 


I look at it from this perspective, Kobe or Lebron. Athleticism or Skill. God given talent or hard work.

 

I said might because we haven't seen enough to give him the complete ' He's a better defender thing '. Parker was a little banged up in the off season and has to get back in shape, then we see about his defense.

 

Wiggins if he works hard enough will be way better than Parker in the future, since his upside is tremendous. But as of right now, if you value athleticism over skill, then sure he's better, but IMO they' re about equal right now.



#103 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 01:04 PM

Kobe was pretty damn athletic coming out of highschool. In fact an elite athlete who kept up with NBA players as a high school player

Kept up with professional Italian players as an 8th grader

So I don't know where this myth has come from that out of high school Kobe was a supreme technician with athletic deficiencies but it's just a myth.

As for Parker being better than wiggins at everything. Lol

Shooting? Yes

Parker couldn't even score on wiggins when wiggins got on him. For those who watched closely enough it wasn't even close. One player looked like a good shooter playing at the same speed as everyone else

Another guy looked just faster and higher than every player on the floor

When wiggins was in the game he out produced Parker. It's fact

In high school wiggins beat Parker as well.

Parker couldn't even play defense against role players and once wiggins got put on him it looked like an NBA player defending a college player
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#104 PhillyLaker24

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 01:26 PM

OJ mayo looked much better than Derrick rose in college. Outperformed him statistically in every category

Michael Beasley also looked much better than Derrick rose and outperformed him big time statistically

But wait, why is Derrick rose 10 times the player of either of them?

Because college is built for players like Parker and randle. College is built for jump shooters. It's why I said Parker would out produce wiggins in college

College is built for rebounders and downlow guys that's why beasley was so impressive in college because the competition is shorter and he could take advantage by being a tweener

Wiggins is going to be the better pro just like Derrick rose because in the NBA there isn't free reign to camp the paint. You can't double while crowding the paint for the entire shot clock. The NBA is about beating your man and wiggins will do that and do that much better than Parker

The jumper will get there, his form is good, but wiggins is going to be one of those guys that gets to the basket at will.

Parker scored the majority of his points on jumpers last night. Struggled pretty mightily when wiggins defended him

Wiggins was benched, didn't play the same minutes as Parker and still produced on a similar level. And defensively it's not even a competition

Parker was getting beat off the dribble by college centers. I can already see a significant defensive liability just like Carmelo

 

I nowhere in my post said Parker would be the better player, did I? I am talking about right now.

 

Also people say Parker is Melo and like that is a slight to him. If melo was a hard worker he would hands down be challenging Lebron for the best player in the league the problem with him is he is the same player he was 8 years ago. When melo wants to play defense he can guard the best of them, when melo wants to rebound and work in the post he becomes the best pf in the league. The thing is he doesnt want to do these things. Word is Parker has the work ethic of a champ and you combine that with Melo skills you have a very dominant player.

 

Of course college success doesnt mean your gonna be good in the league for the names you mention and for many others. However, watching Parker play at Duke reminds me of tape of young Grant Hill at duke, and that guy was a beast before the injuries. People forget the type of talent and potential Hill had, but he was on track to be the best player in the league in his young days. Parker has a complete game, so what if he isnt uber athletic. I will take a young skilled player over the likes of an athletic freak like shannon brown any day of the week. People say oh dont worry wiggins will get an offensive game, like it is so easy to devolp that. Remember when people said that about Kwame Brown? Oh yea. The people on this board bash Blake Griffin all day long because he doesnt have an offensive game, and give him no chance to devolop one. Yet a player like Wiggins gets the benefit of the doubt that his offensive game will blossom and he will flourish. Im the type of guy that goes on what he see's and right now I see Wiggins as pure raw talent. Nothing is wrong with that, but he has the chance to go way south if that game doesnt come along. In recent memory Harrison Barnes and MKG both got comparisons to Bron because of their athleticism and everyone said they will develop an offensive game, I can describe their offense game or lack there of in a few short sentences.

 

On top of this people saying wiggins performed just as well as parker last night, really? Most of wiggins points and production came from cherry picking and fast breaks. Parker did his work against a set defense, while when the game slows down and Kansas played in the half court Wiggins disappeared. Say what you want but no way you can aruge that in the half court Wiggins looked dominant at all. Disappearing for stretches is one thing as a young player of not being aggressive, but it seemed as if he was disappearing because his game just isnt there for the half court. When he was shooting jumpers the defenders werent even challenging him. If he gets the offensive game everything thinks he will he will indeed be an amazing player, but at this point and time he isnt even close to that.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, November 13, 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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#105 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 01:46 PM

Parker got 60% of his points from long range jumpers

He struggled to get by his man. And also Parker is less athletic than melo, not by a lot but he is
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#106 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 02:13 PM

Transitional score is apart of scoring without the ball and exactly what Wiggins should continue to do while he develops his jumper, dribbling, and his ISO game which he isn't bad at all. Self wouldn't let Wiggins take Parker all night which Wiggins asked him for but Self said no. So his iso skills you couldn't really see because he was limited by Self and foul trouble. He could have taken Parker to the post too. When he get his jumper and dribbling skills down he's going to be phenomenal. He is going to be able to score without the ball, post up, shot the jumper, and penetrate, and play defense. Both of them are going to be great. I wouldn't want to say who is better than who just yet but Parker is better right now and it was said he would be a better college player but Wiggins project as the better pro in the long run. There still games to be played and improvement tho. I'm excited.


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, November 13, 2013 - 04:13 PM.

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#107 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 03:27 PM

Exactly. To me Parker is a lock to be a 20ppg 5rpg 5apg player in the NBA. He's incredibly skilled and he will score at the next level. Mostly with his length and jumpers

But to me wiggins has Kobe, Lebron, MJ potential in that he has every bit of athleticism needed, with height and a natural born instinct for the game

It's about how much he works, because the greats had the tools but they worked their asses off to refine them
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#108 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 04:09 PM

True.The thing I like about Wiggins is he doesn't like to rush or force anything, but he doesn't let opportunities pass him by. That step back jumper that he made when the game was close was big. He didn't shy away either he helped finished the game. Duke's eyes were fixed on Wiggins. Wiggins presence on the floor alone made Kansas better team and what makes him even better is that he is a team player. But both can ballout and cant wait for their next games.


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, November 13, 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#109 Paris

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 06:07 PM

@ last stand 2.0 @BleedPurple&Gold, That's exactly what I said. Right now, Wiggins is not better than Parker. But with his tremendous upside, he could be something special. Parker if he does put in the work, could be something special too. He 6'8 and skilled offensively. There are slight differences between him and Melo also. Parker is a better passer and team player. All Parker needs IMO is to get stronger and work on his defensive skills. And @last stand 2.0, I said that because apparently Kobe's athleticism wasn't good enough to get him #1 pick, or even top 10. And he spent his first couple of seasons on the bench.



#110 BleedPurple&Gold

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 06:19 PM

I'm saying I don't know who is better right now because it is to early but I always thought that Parker was going to have the better college career. Either way they both are going to be beasts lol


Edited by BleedPurple&Gold, November 13, 2013 - 06:19 PM.

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#111 bfc1125roy

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 06:27 PM

Anyone have highlights? Missed the game. 



#112 Real Deal

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 07:24 PM

Real deal

What did you think of wiggins repeatedly going to the post and trying to post up down the stretch?

Was this part of the Kansas offense?
Was this just wiggins doing it on his own?
For 6-8 trips down the floor, he just went to the post, and stood there, not moving, not cutting... Of course, the jump shot and the dunk is all anyone will remember, but his positioning on the court confused me down the stretch...

Bill Self wanted him to take advantage of the mismatch down low, but Duke knew to collapse when the entry pass was made after maybe two attempts (I know he got his first bucket out of it, believe he had to kick the ball back out the second time around).

 

There are going to be few instances where Self's motion offense will take a step aside for Wiggins, and that's one of them.  You can't stick a 6-3 or 6-4 guard on Wiggins, anywhere on the court, and not expect him to attempt a post-up.

 

However, we are playing five new starters this season, and it doesn't help that Tharpe (our PG) isn't the most intelligent player on the court...so even when Duke was a bit too extended away from him on the defensive end, Wiggins wasn't getting the ball at moments where that pass needed to go over the top.



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Posted November 13, 2013 - 07:55 PM

Self killing this game by keeping wiggins out

College needs to [expletive]in' expand the foul out rule to 6 already. 5 is bull[expletive] in today's game with so many athletes out there and the game being so fast.


yo.


#114 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 13, 2013 - 08:17 PM

@ last stand 2.0 @BleedPurple&Gold, That's exactly what I said. Right now, Wiggins is not better than Parker. But with his tremendous upside, he could be something special. Parker if he does put in the work, could be something special too. He 6'8 and skilled offensively. There are slight differences between him and Melo also. Parker is a better passer and team player. All Parker needs IMO is to get stronger and work on his defensive skills. And @last stand 2.0, I said that because apparently Kobe's athleticism wasn't good enough to get him #1 pick, or even top 10. And he spent his first couple of seasons on the bench.


Kobe sitting had NOTHING to do with athleticism. Absolutely nothing. It was just del Harris being del Harris

And there is nothing Parker can do defensively because his lateral quickness is horrible. He cant move his feet defensively

As a ball handler and passer the difference isn't much
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Posted November 14, 2013 - 12:29 AM

Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless discuss NCAA college basketball freshman, Kansas' Andrew Wiggins, Duke's Jabari Parker and Kentucky's Julius Randle.

But Parker is slow. If you look slow in college against wings you're gonna be slow against wings in the NBA

His lack of athleticism always made me worry about his potential. A high percentage of all time greats were also elite athletes

Spoiler

Anyone have highlights? Missed the game.



Edited by    , November 14, 2013 - 01:45 AM.

yo.


#116 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 14, 2013 - 01:59 AM

After hearing self talk about how wiggins wanted to lock down Parker all night, how Stephen A basically said wiggins wants it so bad that it hurts his game (which by the way is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and when it's all said and done his desire will define him)

I have no doubt, not even a little bit that wiggins is so far and away ahead of Parker that it's not even a contest. Wiggins is going to be a once in a decade player. A generational player. One that defines an era. Parker will be Paul pierce. A great player in his teams history, win some playoff series but won't sniff wiggins

Tbh watching wiggins shut down Parker, hit that step back 3

I got Kobe flashes, Jordan flashes, because those are guys who would have foul trouble, be missing their shots all game

But when it gets down to the wire they will pick you up defensively and they will hit that big jumper in your face

Wiggins has that. He tore Parker's ass up when he defended him. It was hilarious watching Parker try to get around him those couple of times. Parker looked absolutely outmatched

Parker can shoot. He can shoot incredibly well. That's how he's going to score.

But wiggins will one day be able to shoot, but he'll from day one be beating the living crap out of opponents on both sides of the ball. Why? Because he has "it". Parker does as well offensively but the guy is borderline inept defensively. Ellis from Kansas is barely an NBA player and he ripped Parker to shreds

I truly believe wiggins will be the next Kobe and Jordan. There is nothing Parker showed me to prove he's anywhere close. Parker got hot in the first half, everyone was dumping on wiggins (ignoring he was in foul trouble sitting on the bench) and then when push came to shove wiggins was the one who hit the big shot, who made a fool of Parker whenever he locked on him

Just like he did in high school.
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#117 Paris

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Posted November 14, 2013 - 02:11 AM

After hearing self talk about how wiggins wanted to lock down Parker all night, how Stephen A basically said wiggins wants it so bad that it hurts his game (which by the way is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard and when it's all said and done his desire will define him)

I have no doubt, not even a little bit that wiggins is so far and away ahead of Parker that it's not even a contest. Wiggins is going to be a once in a decade player. A generational player. One that defines an era. Parker will be Paul pierce. A great player in his teams history, win some playoff series but won't sniff wiggins

Tbh watching wiggins shut down Parker, hit that step back 3

I got Kobe flashes, Jordan flashes, because those are guys who would have foul trouble, be missing their shots all game

But when it gets down to the wire they will pick you up defensively and they will hit that big jumper in your face

Wiggins has that. He tore Parker's ass up when he defended him. It was hilarious watching Parker try to get around him those couple of times. Parker looked absolutely outmatched

Parker can shoot. He can shoot incredibly well. That's how he's going to score.

But wiggins will one day be able to shoot, but he'll from day one be beating the living crap out of opponents on both sides of the ball. Why? Because he has "it". Parker does as well offensively but the guy is borderline inept defensively. Ellis from Kansas is barely an NBA player and he ripped Parker to shreds

I truly believe wiggins will be the next Kobe and Jordan. There is nothing Parker showed me to prove he's anywhere close. Parker got hot in the first half, everyone was dumping on wiggins (ignoring he was in foul trouble sitting on the bench) and then when push came to shove wiggins was the one who hit the big shot, who made a fool of Parker whenever he locked on him

Just like he did in high school.

I don't think I should even reply to this since it seems like you love Wiggins and for some reason hate Parker.

 

Even if he stopped him a few plays, doesn't mean anything considering you just said Wiggins spent the first half on the bench while Parker lit it up. He was the fresh man.


Edited by Paris, November 14, 2013 - 02:17 AM.


#118 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 14, 2013 - 02:14 AM


Spoiler



If anything those two dunks only prove my point. Jabari's head on the alley oop is a good foot under the basket lol

And I'm glad he can reverse dunk at 6-8 and change with a 7 foot wingspan

Dwight Howard could reverse dunk 6 months after major back surgery with a numb leg.
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#119 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 14, 2013 - 02:20 AM

I don't think I should even reply to this since it seems like you love Wiggins and for some reason hate Parker.


Have nothing against Parker, even said I'd love to have him on the lakers

Im just speaking towards the comedic wiggins bashing that was happening in the first half only to be made into idiotic rhetoric after the 2nd half because well

Wiggins was actually on the floor.

It's really not close. I'm sorry if people think it is. This really is mayo vs rose part 2.

Parker scored about 80% of his points on jumpers. Why? Because tbh he struggled to penetrate when it wasn't a broken play. It's an issue. Parker has a ceiling because of his athleticism level

Wiggins does not. Of course he could be a lazy ass (which he's not) but when he gets a paycheck he could. But there is no ceiling. He lacks nothing other than fixable issues such as a jumpshot

Parker lacks things that are impossible to fix. Lateral quickness, overall athleticism

Honestly from my viewpoint I think he's so skilled because he had to develop ways to make up for his lack of athleticism
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#120 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 14, 2013 - 02:23 AM

I don't think I should even reply to this since it seems like you love Wiggins and for some reason hate Parker.

Even if he stopped him a few plays, doesn't mean anything considering you just said Wiggins spent the first half on the bench while Parker lit it up. He was the fresh man.


They are all fresh, they are 18 year olds playing their First few games of the season. Not to mention wiggins moved without the ball MUCH more than Parker so thats an excuse

Why? Because Parker struggled to beat slower guys than wiggins off the dribble, not to mention couldn't defend anyone.
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