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Kobe is ranked 25th in ESPN #NBArank


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#81 Ven

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Posted October 17, 2013 - 11:59 PM

So you praise Curry's stats, but in reality he is weaker version of other offensive PG's like Rose and Westbrook. Just look at the playoffs were achievements actually matter most, a decent defensive team with IQ can easily take him out. Yes he had that 40 ish point game, but aren't all three point players like that, when hot deadly, when cold nothing but misery.

 

He was terrible those last two games, he would go off into a corner and just wait for the ball, that's it. We praise great scorers like Jordan, Kobe and James because they have multiple dimensions, if one night the shots don't fall int they find other outlets, whether its playmaking, defense or just pure tenacity. While we tend to look down on players like Carmelo.

 

I am not saying Curry won't be great, but like Harden, still volume shooter and not much else.



#82 Michaelyumm

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 12:03 AM

Some guy at the 24 bball court said he always thought Kobe was overrated and that ESPN is right putting him @25. He also went on to say that Lebron was more clutch, also he was wearing a celtics shirt while all this was going on. But don't worry I hit 4 3s on his ass!



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Posted October 18, 2013 - 12:04 AM

I am not saying Curry won't be great, but like Harden, still volume shooter and not much else.

I agree with all of what you posted mostly except for this. I still think Harden has way more dimensions in his offensive game than Curry and he's also better at creating contact at will seemingly & getting to the free throw line.


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#84 Ven

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 12:08 AM

I agree with all of what you posted mostly except for this. I still think Harden has way more dimensions in his offensive game than Curry and he's also better at creating contact at will seemingly & getting to the free throw line.

 

Probably so, but Harden is probably a worse shooter than Curry but since he is stronger is willing to enter the lane more often. Plus while it gets exaggerated, I tend to dislike players that insistently try and create contact and often just end up making bad plays all together. Don't know if he still does it on Hou as much as OKC.



#85 zombeef

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 12:35 AM

Because of how SA exposed a certain hole in his game in the playoffs. He needs to work on more consistently being able to create for himself going to the basket & having success there. Yes he can do it, but when you force him to exclusively just do that as San Antonio did, he can have some issues and he also disappeared for too long of stretches when his team needed him most as their supposed go-to #1 option.

 

Pffft...lots of good players have holes in their games. I just don't understand how this topic got to be about Curry. 



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Posted October 18, 2013 - 12:37 AM

^ Somewhere in the previous page.


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#87 zombeef

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 01:22 AM

Yeah, I saw WHERE it started, but I don't understand why. Come on, that was the first trip to the playoffs for Curry and his ankle wasn't 100%. Plus he still managed to average about 8 assists per game in the post season, which is higher than what he usually averages. You can't say he wasn't trying to contribute in other ways when his shots weren't falling. Look, things get heated around here whenever Kobe gets disrespected and I understand that, but I think this is all misplaced anger. 

 

Don't hate the kid, hate ESPN. 



#88 bigvee

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 05:06 AM

Curry is a shooter who's learning how to play as a point guard, instead of being a point guard who could shoot.

Kobe is being disrespected by ESPN, and everyone should just move on, as rankings are just opinions put out there by guys behind a desk.

/thread

#89 manaro90

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 06:46 AM

1378735_466769750105893_51804115_n.jpg :81:

 

:81:  :81:  :81:


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#90 Ven

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 08:48 AM

Curry is a shooter who's learning how to play as a point guard, instead of being a point guard who could shoot.
 

 

Appropriate for so many 'PG's' in the NBA currently.



#91 Paris

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 02:21 PM

Because of how SA exposed a certain hole in his game in the playoffs. He needs to work on more consistently being able to create for himself going to the basket & having success there. Yes he can do it, but when you force him to exclusively just do that as San Antonio did, he can have some issues and he also disappeared for too long of stretches when his team needed him most as their supposed go-to #1 option.

 


He got hurt in that series for christ sakes. Did Miami expose Parker, or did his injury cause the drop off in his production? Let's be real here. A healthy Curry can't be stopped IMO.


Edited by Paris, October 18, 2013 - 02:29 PM.


#92 Paris

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 02:27 PM

So you praise Curry's stats, but in reality he is weaker version of other offensive PG's like Rose and Westbrook. Just look at the playoffs were achievements actually matter most, a decent defensive team with IQ can easily take him out. Yes he had that 40 ish point game, but aren't all three point players like that, when hot deadly, when cold nothing but misery.

 

He was terrible those last two games, he would go off into a corner and just wait for the ball, that's it. We praise great scorers like Jordan, Kobe and James because they have multiple dimensions, if one night the shots don't fall int they find other outlets, whether its playmaking, defense or just pure tenacity. While we tend to look down on players like Carmelo.

 

I am not saying Curry won't be great, but like Harden, still volume shooter and not much else.

 


How is he a volume shooter when he shoots a higher percentage than all the player you just named( Rose, Westbrook, Harden)? What do you label them as then?


And he got hurt in that series, that's why he changed his play style and became a spot up shooter. He still produced regardless.


And I don't even. Labeling Curry as just a three point shooter is so blasphemous, I can't believe it.



#93 Icker

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 02:30 PM

These rankings are a joke. They have BLAKE GRIFFEN over Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Melo. lololol

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Posted October 18, 2013 - 11:21 PM

^ But they can't dunk like him tho.

The Forum: Ramona Shelburne and Arash Markazi react to Kobe Bryant's ranking on ESPN.com.


yo.


#95 Jody Smokes

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 07:09 AM

Quote from CBA expert Larry Coon from Hoopsworld in regards to the ranking. 

 

"I was one of the voters for NBArank. I can’t speak for everyone who voted, but I can speak for how I voted.

It’s important to clarify that the voters didn’t individually rank the players from 1-500. We rated each player on a 0-10 scale, with a 10 being best. The average rating for each player is sorted, and that determines his NBArank. So I had no control over say, where Kobe was ranked relative to Chris Bosh, except through rating one higher than the other, and my vote being one of many.

The voting criteria was to rate the overall level of play predicted for the player in 2013-14, including both QUALITY and QUANTITY of his expected contributions.

 

With Kobe you have a guy who’s coming off one of the most devastating injuries a basketball player can sustain — especially when the player is in his mid-30s. The typical recovery time is a full year, and even then, history shows that players usually come back as a shell of their former selves, and it takes much longer than that to recover to whatever their new baseline is. We have a player who sustained this injury just six months ago, who isn’t running yet (except on the Alter-G), who isn’t cutting yet, and who certainly isn’t playing yet. We also have no timetable for his return. When he does return, even if 100% healthy, he has to re-gain his conditioning and timing, and he & the team (who will be used to playing without him) have to acclimate to each other.

 

That’s a different situation than either Westbrook or Rose. Neither of those players had an Achilles tear, and neither of those players is 35.

And before someone responds that this is Kobe, and he’s always been an animal when it comes to coming back from an injury, my response to that is that sometimes the past is a good predictor for the future, and sometimes it isn’t. Kobe’s Achilles tear is unlike any injury he’s had in the past, and that makes the past a poor predictor of how well he’ll come back from THIS injury. You can say he’s ahead of schedule right now, but there’s still a long way to go before we know when he’ll actually be back on the court, and how well he’ll play once he gets there.

 

I gave Kobe a 10 in the last three NBAranks — including the midseason NBArank last season. But given the uncertainty over his injury and the fact that he’ll likely miss a good portion of the season (which affects the quantity of his contribution), I gave him an 8 this year. This turned out to be above-average (his average score was 7.78), but seeming in-line with the other voters’ thinking.

Overall, the voters took a look at the situation and voted a 35 year old coming off a devastating injury as 25th in the league, which means borderline all-star. I think that’s reasonable. Plus, the reason for the lowered rank isn’t an expectation that he’ll play like the league’s 25th best player, it reflects uncertainty over how well he’ll come back. If he does come back strong and healthy he’ll be a lot better than 25th once he’s got his conditioning and timing back and he & the team are used to playing together. But if he’s still severely hampered he’ll be worse than 25th. His ranking merely reflects that uncertainty."


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#96 kball

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 09:39 AM

^ And then...depression set in (stripes-bill murray)

Well thought out and explained though


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#97 Ham

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 10:22 AM

Quote from CBA expert Larry Coon from Hoopsworld in regards to the ranking. 

 

"I was one of the voters for NBArank. I can’t speak for everyone who voted, but I can speak for how I voted.

It’s important to clarify that the voters didn’t individually rank the players from 1-500. We rated each player on a 0-10 scale, with a 10 being best. The average rating for each player is sorted, and that determines his NBArank. So I had no control over say, where Kobe was ranked relative to Chris Bosh, except through rating one higher than the other, and my vote being one of many.

The voting criteria was to rate the overall level of play predicted for the player in 2013-14, including both QUALITY and QUANTITY of his expected contributions.

 

With Kobe you have a guy who’s coming off one of the most devastating injuries a basketball player can sustain — especially when the player is in his mid-30s. The typical recovery time is a full year, and even then, history shows that players usually come back as a shell of their former selves, and it takes much longer than that to recover to whatever their new baseline is. We have a player who sustained this injury just six months ago, who isn’t running yet (except on the Alter-G), who isn’t cutting yet, and who certainly isn’t playing yet. We also have no timetable for his return. When he does return, even if 100% healthy, he has to re-gain his conditioning and timing, and he & the team (who will be used to playing without him) have to acclimate to each other.

 

That’s a different situation than either Westbrook or Rose. Neither of those players had an Achilles tear, and neither of those players is 35.

And before someone responds that this is Kobe, and he’s always been an animal when it comes to coming back from an injury, my response to that is that sometimes the past is a good predictor for the future, and sometimes it isn’t. Kobe’s Achilles tear is unlike any injury he’s had in the past, and that makes the past a poor predictor of how well he’ll come back from THIS injury. You can say he’s ahead of schedule right now, but there’s still a long way to go before we know when he’ll actually be back on the court, and how well he’ll play once he gets there.

 

I gave Kobe a 10 in the last three NBAranks — including the midseason NBArank last season. But given the uncertainty over his injury and the fact that he’ll likely miss a good portion of the season (which affects the quantity of his contribution), I gave him an 8 this year. This turned out to be above-average (his average score was 7.78), but seeming in-line with the other voters’ thinking.

Overall, the voters took a look at the situation and voted a 35 year old coming off a devastating injury as 25th in the league, which means borderline all-star. I think that’s reasonable. Plus, the reason for the lowered rank isn’t an expectation that he’ll play like the league’s 25th best player, it reflects uncertainty over how well he’ll come back. If he does come back strong and healthy he’ll be a lot better than 25th once he’s got his conditioning and timing back and he & the team are used to playing together. But if he’s still severely hampered he’ll be worse than 25th. His ranking merely reflects that uncertainty."

Yeah so derrick rose with an uncertainty was top 5... last year. MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.


Edited by Ham, October 21, 2013 - 10:23 AM.

Mike D'Antoni is GARBAGE.


#98 Ven

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 10:31 AM


How is he a volume shooter when he shoots a higher percentage than all the player you just named( Rose, Westbrook, Harden)? What do you label them as then?


And he got hurt in that series, that's why he changed his play style and became a spot up shooter. He still produced regardless.


And I don't even. Labeling Curry as just a three point shooter is so blasphemous, I can't believe it.

 

He is a volume shooter, especially ranged which is his main offense, Kobe is one too many times and Melo and so on (although they are much more versatile which changes matters) so I don't get why you think that is a terrible knock on him, its just a label given to scorers that at times can hamper an offense or be too much of a focal point. Difference is I am not sold on Curry's playmaking, which I know people love to toss the APG stat but that doesn't equate to being an actual leader on the floor or making critical plays, it is like saying a high SPG means good defense where Westbrook and Rose are much more proven, especially Rose.

 

You're right though, he did get somewhat injured in the SA series which I didn't really take into account, but I doubt it can be claimed he produced looking at the huge fall in productivity the last two games. I am not saying he is just a spot up shooter, he has talents but I am not about to start making it seem like he is a top 5 PG currently or anything of the sort. If anything tin the playoffs, Klay Thompson showed more resiliency than most of the entire team.



#99 Jody Smokes

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 11:16 AM

It does make sense.  Rose was projected to dominate when he came back but he never came back.  Not to mention Rose is like 12 years younger than Kobe and an achilles is a worser injury than an ACL tear.  I think Kobe's mileage gets overlooked way too much here.  His age and mileage matters, not to mention he shouldnt be playing 38MPG so his numbers will drop.  I'm not saying I agree with 25th but at least we have a viable explanation for it.  In the end like he says doesnt mean he's going to end up playing like that 25th guy in the long run but Kobe most likely isn't hitting the floor in game 1 dropping 30. 

Yeah so derrick rose with an uncertainty was top 5... last year. MAKES SO MUCH SENSE.


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#100 TKainZero

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Posted October 21, 2013 - 11:20 AM

If foxsportsone was smart they would do a top 100 nba player ranking and have Kobe in the top 5




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