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Howard wanted the Lakers to amnesty or "muzzle" Kobe, didn't want to play with him for 2-3 more years


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#101 West Coast

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 08:50 AM

Another thing to consider is that maybe Melo is really committed to NY?  All of us are fans and most of you guys can't look outside of that lens from a different POV.  You may think NY is a cess pool of losing but why should Melo believe that as their franchise guy?  The franchise rest in his hands, if he can't win with that team he can't win here either.

 

To question if Melo is committed to New York is irrelevant because he along with close friends/family only know if he is or not.  Although I don't think it's far fetched to look at the situation in NY and think he may want to change addresses.

 

I'll keep saying what I've been saying for the last few months, Melo will not be coming to LA if D'Antoni is still the coach.  They had issues in NY and Melo will not subject himself to another bad situation. 

 

IF MDA is gone, Melo has a good shot in coming here.  NY really isn't a situation where you look at it and classify it as good so it's not a lock that he stays there.  Is LA the best situation in itself right now? Of course not.  But I do think there is a lot of intrigue in being part of the Lakers resurgence. 

 

There's a reason why plenty of league executives have said teams around the league are concerned with the Lakers upcoming off-season and that's because the Lakers have never had this type of cap space in years.  Regardless who the owner is, the Lakers are still the Lakers, a team that creates legends, raises banners, and will do what is necessary to be successful.  

 

2014 is not going to be an off-season where we just jump right back to the top.  It's going to take the next couple of off-seasons, maybe even three, to accomplish that.  Melo would be a nice piece here, I don't think it would be a mistake bringing him in.  What would be a mistake is making him the center of the franchise. 



#102 Majesty

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 11:02 AM

I don't think it would be a mistake bringing him in.  What would be a mistake is making him the center of the franchise. 


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#103 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 12:28 PM

Anytime you bring in a guy thats in his prime at 23M a year he is your centerpiece especially if the other guys are 5-6 older


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#104 Mr Terrific

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 12:30 PM

@8:03...


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#105 Japago

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:20 PM

To question if Melo is committed to New York is irrelevant because he along with close friends/family only know if he is or not.  Although I don't think it's far fetched to look at the situation in NY and think he may want to change addresses.

 

I'll keep saying what I've been saying for the last few months, Melo will not be coming to LA if D'Antoni is still the coach.  They had issues in NY and Melo will not subject himself to another bad situation. 

 

IF MDA is gone, Melo has a good shot in coming here.  NY really isn't a situation where you look at it and classify it as good so it's not a lock that he stays there.  Is LA the best situation in itself right now? Of course not.  But I do think there is a lot of intrigue in being part of the Lakers resurgence. 

 

There's a reason why plenty of league executives have said teams around the league are concerned with the Lakers upcoming off-season and that's because the Lakers have never had this type of cap space in years.  Regardless who the owner is, the Lakers are still the Lakers, a team that creates legends, raises banners, and will do what is necessary to be successful.  

 

2014 is not going to be an off-season where we just jump right back to the top.  It's going to take the next couple of off-seasons, maybe even three, to accomplish that.  Melo would be a nice piece here, I don't think it would be a mistake bringing him in.  What would be a mistake is making him the center of the franchise. 

 

If the Lakers aren't going to go all-in with getting FAs after next season, I don't see the point in re-signing Kobe.

 

You can already make the case that it's not worth it just for 2 more years for a Kobe at the end of his career. Now, it's only going to be for one? If it's 3 more years, Kobe is not a factor even if he goes through with his plan of playing 2 years after his contract ends.

 

There aren't really any FAs the Lakers can get this off-season that are young enough to wait for a year or so anyway. Most of the big names are around 30.


Edited by Japago, September 04, 2013 - 04:22 PM.

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#106 West Coast

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:33 PM

If the Lakers aren't going to go all-in with getting FAs after next season, I don't see the point in re-signing Kobe.

 

You can already make the case that it's not worth it just for 2 more years for a Kobe at the end of his career. Now, it's only going to be for one? If it's 3 more years, Kobe is not a factor even if he goes through with his plan of playing 2 years after his contract ends.

 

There aren't really any FAs the Lakers can get this off-season that are young enough to wait for a year or so anyway. Most of the big names are around 30.

 

Oh I'm not saying that they aren't going all in with free agents next off season, they definitely are going to do that. 

 

What I am saying is that it's unrealistic to think the Lakers problems will be solved in one off-season, especially when most of the guys we want will more than likely be locked up before they get to free agency OR they are restricted and teams will match whatever we offer and get those guys on a discount essentially. 



#107 Japago

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 04:51 PM

Oh I'm not saying that they aren't going all in with free agents next off season, they definitely are going to do that. 

 

What I am saying is that it's unrealistic to think the Lakers problems will be solved in one off-season, especially when most of the guys we want will more than likely be locked up before they get to free agency OR they are restricted and teams will match whatever we offer and get those guys on a discount essentially. 

 

Yep, that's a real possibility. And if that's the case, then the Lakers should just let Kobe go after this season.

 

BTW, I'm talking about the Lakers potentially overpaying/going after FAs they wouldn't go after otherwise when I'm talking about the Lakers going all in. They really can't afford to be picky and build the team throughout multiple FA classes if they're going to try to compete while Kobe is still here.


Edited by Japago, September 04, 2013 - 05:40 PM.

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#108 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:39 PM

Yep, that's a real possibility. And if that's the case, then the Lakers should just let Kobe go after this season.

 

BTW, I'm talking about the Lakers potentially overpaying/going after FAs they wouldn't go after otherwise when I'm talking about the Lakers going all in. They really can't afford to be picky and build the team throughout multiple FA classes if they're going to try to compete while Kobe is still here.

Do you get that without Kobe we won't win and even though we may not win WITH Kobe, he is the most famous athlete in Los Angeles, and he got 5 titles, and now we can let him finish off his career



#109 West Coast

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:42 PM

If Kobe wants to finish his career here, he'll do so. 

 

If Kobe wants to go elsewhere instead of being part of the rebuild at the end of his career, the Lakers will allow him to do so. 

 

It's all on Kobe. 



#110 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 07:45 PM

Sure Im all for Kobe staying but if he thinks the Lakers should mortgage their future on him at 35 that would be idiotic on their part and selfish on his.  If Dr Buss was alive and healthy though...

Do you get that without Kobe we won't win and even though we may not win WITH Kobe, he is the most famous athlete in Los Angeles, and he got 5 titles, and now we can let him finish off his career


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#111 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 04, 2013 - 08:49 PM

Sure Im all for Kobe staying but if he thinks the Lakers should mortgage their future on him at 35 that would be idiotic on their part and selfish on his.  If Dr Buss was alive and healthy though...

Dr Buss would do what?

 

 

What does that even mean?

 

 

Kobe is staying here because it makes sense for jeanie($) and Jim(basketball)

 

Is he going to get 5 years 100 million? No!

 

Is he going to get 1 yr 1 million? No!

 

 

Last year, Chris Bosh made 17 million

 

 

KObe Bryant might get that over 2 seasons, based on what he does this year. If he averages what superstars do

 

25,5,5 on 45%

 

He'll get a 3 year 38 million dollar deal

 

 

if he averages 27,5,5, on 48%, he'll get 3 years 50 million

 

 

if he averages 20,5,5, on 43%

he'll get 3 years 30 million

 

 

20 seasons



#112 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 04:20 AM

A healthy Dr Buss in charge wouldn't mortgage the future on the 35 year old man coming off of a ruptured achilles.  You keep talking all these figures as if Kobe has already proven on the court he can put up those numbers.  If he can play the level he did last year then 10-12M a year is fine with me for no more than 2 years max.  Above all of that they still need to be able to pull guys in to compete and rebuild going forward.  Weird how Kobe was hell bent on retirement after the 13-14 season now all of a sudden he can play 3-4 more years?  Just doesn't sound right.  Maybe he's trying to convince himself. 

Dr Buss would do what?

 

 

What does that even mean?

 

 

Kobe is staying here because it makes sense for jeanie($) and Jim(basketball)

 

Is he going to get 5 years 100 million? No!

 

Is he going to get 1 yr 1 million? No!

 

 

Last year, Chris Bosh made 17 million

 

 

KObe Bryant might get that over 2 seasons, based on what he does this year. If he averages what superstars do

 

25,5,5 on 45%

 

He'll get a 3 year 38 million dollar deal

 

 

if he averages 27,5,5, on 48%, he'll get 3 years 50 million

 

 

if he averages 20,5,5, on 43%

he'll get 3 years 30 million

 

 

20 seasons


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#113 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 06:49 AM

A healthy Dr Buss in charge wouldn't mortgage the future on the 35 year old man coming off of a ruptured achilles.  You keep talking all these figures as if Kobe has already proven on the court he can put up those numbers.  If he can play the level he did last year then 10-12M a year is fine with me for no more than 2 years max.  Above all of that they still need to be able to pull guys in to compete and rebuild going forward.  Weird how Kobe was hell bent on retirement after the 13-14 season now all of a sudden he can play 3-4 more years?  Just doesn't sound right.  Maybe he's trying to convince himself. 

Give me the evidence

 

He traded Shaq, bc Shaq was PERSONALLY disrespectful to him and others around the organization and he was going to possibly lose a cash cow and favoritte player of his like Kobe

 

 

Kareem stayed forever

 

Worthy stayed forever

 

Derek stayed forever

 

Ac Green was here past his rprime

 

 

Dr. Buss had us losing for a decade straight, because he wanted to see a SHOWTIME type team , with Van Exel, Eddie Jones etc.

 

 

 

Stop acting like Dr. Buss was anything more thn an owner who spent money

 

 

He had NOTHING to do with Magic or Kobe being the BORN winners that they are

 

Just like Tim Duncan and MJ are born winners, just like Hakeem was a born winner

 

 

 

Owners spend money, that's it...



#114 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 07:35 AM

You pretty much just presented the evidence yourself.  Shaq was the past and Kobe at the time was the future.  He didn't cost the Lakers their future by trying to appease Shaq.  Right now if the Lakers make moves that are clearly in favor of keeping Kobe as the centerpiece like keeping Pau when they could get value for him or giving him a 3 year deal as you suggest it will only prolong the agony.  Kobe may not necessarily be the past yet but he sure isn't the future.  D12 was our future but they didn't keep their finger on the pulse and trade him when they had the chance.  Now we are w/o 3 1st rd picks for the next 6 years, new CBA makes it harder to spend big dollars and no elite guy available on the market til after the 15-16 season. 

Give me the evidence

 

He traded Shaq, bc Shaq was PERSONALLY disrespectful to him and others around the organization and he was going to possibly lose a cash cow and favoritte player of his like Kobe

 

 

Kareem stayed forever

 

Worthy stayed forever

 

Derek stayed forever

 

Ac Green was here past his rprime

 

 

Dr. Buss had us losing for a decade straight, because he wanted to see a SHOWTIME type team , with Van Exel, Eddie Jones etc.

 

 

 

Stop acting like Dr. Buss was anything more thn an owner who spent money

 

 

He had NOTHING to do with Magic or Kobe being the BORN winners that they are

 

Just like Tim Duncan and MJ are born winners, just like Hakeem was a born winner

 

 

 

Owners spend money, that's it...


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#115 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 07:39 AM

No, you didn't read

 

 

 

Shaq was disrespectful. Shaq cursed out Dr. Buss, or else he would be RIGHT here with the Lakers for at least the next 5 years following that trade

 

 

 

 

Again, you don't know what you're talking about, yoiu're speculating and facts are amiss



#116 Jody Smokes

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 07:54 AM

Actually Im not, Shaq was mainly traded because he wanted a huge contract they did not want to pay since he was getting older and showing clear signs of breakdown. You got it tho.

No, you didn't read

 

 

 

Shaq was disrespectful. Shaq cursed out Dr. Buss, or else he would be RIGHT here with the Lakers for at least the next 5 years following that trade

 

 

 

 

Again, you don't know what you're talking about, yoiu're speculating and facts are amiss

 


"Blake and Parker are good at canceling each other out till our bench point guard comes in"  - Majesty aka Bird Ish (12/4/13)


#117 BasketballIQ

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 08:18 AM

Actually Im not, Shaq was mainly traded because he wanted a huge contract they did not want to pay since he was getting older and showing clear signs of breakdown. You got it tho.

No it wasn't MAINLY that.

 

back then, money was different, the luxury tax was not as much and Shaq and Kobe made BIg money for the Lakers

 

It was MAINLy, Shaq and Kobe didn't get along, and Shaq was the OBVIOUS [expletive], cursing out Dr. buss and other staff who had made a tribute to MJ(jordan) n "Shaq's house"



#118 LakeShow805

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 08:56 AM

Actually Im not, Shaq was mainly traded because he wanted a huge contract they did not want to pay since he was getting older and showing clear signs of breakdown. You got it tho.

Shaq yelled "pay me" towards Dr Buss.

 

Main reason why they chose Kobe over Shaq.



#119 West Coast

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 09:15 AM

There were many reasons why the Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq, there was not just one reason. 

 

At 31 years old, Shaq's scoring declined dramatically over one season, from 27 ppg down to 21 ppg. 

 

As Kobe has said (and Shaq as well), they simply felt they could not play with one another anymore.  Kobe had grown into an alpha male that needed to create his own path and wanted to take on the challenge of people saying he couldn't win without Shaq.

 

No Phil Jackson anymore, team philosophy going in a different direction. 

 

Kobe in his prime at age 26 and being one of, if not the premier scorer in the league. 

 

And the list goes on and on.....

 

Simply put, resigning Kobe was the best business move and best basketball move.  

 

Shaq was in the decline and never averaged more than 23 ppg again.  Before Shaq was traded, he still was owed 29.5 million and 32.4 million the following season, but he still asked Jerry Buss to pay him with the asking price at $30 million a year AFTER his current contract ended.



#120 epicwolf

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Posted September 05, 2013 - 12:07 PM

Playing Devils Advocate...Kobes an ass hole to his team mates.

He always has been an ass hole.  Not for the sake of just being an ass hole that nobody likes but because he expects 100% commitment.

Kobe himself has admitted this many times. And hes even said he's tried to work on it because he realizes not everyone can have the same passion level as himself.

 

We all remember many times when KB would yell at Sasha, Odom, Pau and others.

We all know there was a time he would yell at Kwame. Till he found out Kwame was actually trying but just had limited ability. Then he would just turn away. In lots of ways Kwame helped Kobe widen his perspective. Which I think helped Kobe deal with players like LO who were not as mentally strong.

 

Understanding why his team mates are not being fully engaged has always been Kobes biggest basketball problem.

He never yelled at his team mates for failing. Just failing to give 100%.

And probably the players hated it while it was happening. But regardless of how they felt....it motivated them to dig deeper. And it resulted in moments like this:
sasha1.jpg

Kobe+Bryant+Sasha+Vujacic+Los+Angeles+La

And then they understand why Mamba does what he does. And they are grateful. And guys like Farmar who left, miss that type of leadership and want to come back.

 

Dwight Howard was challenged by KB24 in a big way this past season. Kobe basically said publicly that Dwight should stop being a beeeyitch and play through some pain because thats what Champions do.

We all saw how Dwight reacted and how things ended up.

Where LO, Sasha, Farmar, Pau, etc. succeeded in finding the positives of Kobe's greatest flaw, Dwight Howard failed.

He couldnt take the hard cold advice from the greatest player ever and process it into a desire to win. So he left to a city/team where the pressure is minuscule in comparison to LA.
Thanks Kobe for being an ass hole and letting us see in only 1 year what kind of heart and balls D12 really had under the self molded Superman facade.

 

 

 

Are you describing Kobe or Jordan? Because they are pretty much exactly the same!!!  Jordan punch Ker in the face! Jordan made fun of Will Perdue saying he should changed his name to Will Vanderbilt cus he doesnt deserve a big 10 school name.  JOrdan do a lot worst than Kobe.  Almost everybody who played with Jordan hated the guy but almost everybody respect him.   Some can't handle it cus they are weak and consider a pvssy like D12. 


MDA is an offensive genius. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps doing what he does best: Run and Gun. That's the only way to coach.





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